New guy here tryin to learn the Blues

[natethegreat424]

To introduce myself, my name is Nate, I'm 22 years old and have been playing guitar for around 4 years. I grew up playing piano taught classically for 6 years. This helped develop my musical sense at a young age however I never really felt that I truly understood the piano. Sure I could play the music sitting in front of me and memorize difficult songs, however how does that separate me from anyone else in the world. Thinking about it, anyone could read that same music and produce the exact same song. There is no individual style or feeling put into it. Basically i was limiting myself to only what was on the page. Never having the capability or understanding to play outside the box.

Beginning guitar happened around the age of 18 and was exciting, since i had decent dexterity remaining from my piano years i was able to catch onto chords and finger picking quickly. Until recently my playing has been limited to learning a lot of chords to songs and some picking out parts. Since i spent nearly 3 years with this being my only focus I've become quite adept at chord changes, figuring out progressions, finger picking and coming up with cool rhythms. However once again its only so much fun to be able to play exactly what is written down so my progress and interest slowed quickly.

After about 2 years of playing on and off I took classical lessons from a friends wife for about 3 months. I learned quickly to read music again which was cool and shortly after we began working on some songs. Since my lessons only lasted about 3 months the furthest i got was learning a really in depth version of Classical Gas. Sounds awesome and is a really impressive song however once again I found myself with the same problem as before. I learned a couple cool songs but that was it. My dexterity increased a good bit but other than that my understanding of music was still the same. I couldn't produce anything on my own. I wasn't able to transfer any of what I had learned to be able to create something new.

What I've always wanted is to be able to listen to a chord progression, whether it be blues, rock or whatever and be able to make something up on the spot. Either a solo or some kind or a picked out melody that flows with the song. To be able to jam with friends and know how to add to a song with my own style or ideas rather than just being another guy on guitar playing the same chords as everyone else.

Until this past October the ability to do this literally seemed impossible to me. A skill reserved for those people who are naturally gifted with music from birth or professionals. However expanding the music i listened to quickly lead me to the blues and I was hooked. Its so amazing what those guys like SRV, Albert King, Magic Slim, Lightnin' Hopkins, etc... can do and the whole idea behind the blues is so cool to me. The fact that the blues really outlines exactly what I've always wanted to be able to do. After doing a lot of reading and messing around I finally discovered the importance of the pentatonic scale. Big duh right, however when learning scales in the past I was never really taught to think of them as a road map rather than an exercise to do in order to warm your fingers up... Just never seemed to click with me. Anyways, so over the past several months I've been intensely studying and practicing blues. My roommate and I have been playing everyday and constantly improving. I've already come a long way, honestly I would have to say I've made more progress in these past 3 or 4 months than in the previous 2 years. Just one of those things where stuff just begins to click. I've learned not to think too hard about the music. Its about listening to whats being played and understanding the more useful parts of the scale and how they can be placed into the song.

Right now I would say I'm pretty good at coming up with random stuff to play along with songs. Nothing crazy just melodies or whatever that work well with what ever song is being played. The best part though is that every time I play along with a song that I've played many times, I'm able to come up with something different. So in that regard I'm light years ahead of myself only a little while ago. Day by day I'm improving however even with this sudden burst of understanding I'm slowing hitting a wall again.

As of right now I feel some of the bigger things that are holding me back are:

Licks - I know these are the building block of blues however I'm having trouble finding some really key licks to put into songs. I know just a couple right now but I have a hard time incorporating them into a song. I guess my library of licks is too small. Since i don't know too many most of what I do is complete improvisation in songs. This turns out well most of the time however a lot of the time it sounds very elementary. It would just be nice to have a list of really impressive sounding licks to throw in when necessary.

Chords - I can play chords no problem. You teach me a chord or chord progression I'll get it in no time. What I notice I'm missing when playing blues is the ability to enhance my "solo" by adding blues type chords into the mix. You hear it all the time in blues, just some random chords that the soloist throws in either to add a little flavor, stress some notes or whatever I'm not even sure of the ideas behind when is a good time to add them. I wanted to learn some of the key chord patterns that people use in blues that are great to throw into a melody.

Turnarounds - Of course very important in the blues. I'm having trouble timing them properly or figuring out how to put them into the song without having it sound forced. Also being able to transfer the few turnarounds that I know in one key to another. It would also be cool to learn some of the more popular ones to resort to.

Soloing - this may sound very broad however what I mean specifically is that I'm beginning to understand how to play along with a song providing a melody of picked out notes however I'm having trouble grasping the concept behind an actual solo. Sounds weird and probably doesn't make sense but some of you may know what I mean.

So I figure with a couple key licks that I can resort to, some cool chords that help keep the beat or give more life to the song and finishing off with some great turnarounds that keep the song moving smoothly I believe I'll be on my way to greatness in no time haha.

Anyway I know this went on forever, so now you know a good bit about me and my journey to learn the guitar. If you've read anything in here and can offer some advise please do so. Any advise is better than none. I'm looking forward to learning as much from the Fret Players Community as possible.

Rock on - Nate

[Robert]

Hey Nate, great intro! Welcome my friend.

I think you'll be getting lots of tips based on that post. :AOK:

By the way, I was teaching blues turnarounds to a couple of my students last night, maybe I can help...

[evenkeel]

Welcome to the gang, cult, crew, fretnet. Whatever.

Great intro. Only advice from me, patience. The practice part you've obvioulsy got down. :beer: :bravo:

[natethegreat424]

Hey Nate, great intro! Welcome my friend.

I think you'll be getting lots of tips based on that post. :AOK:

By the way, I was teaching blues turnarounds to a couple of my students last night, maybe I can help...


Hey thanks a lot, seems like a pretty cool community you guys have here.

Yea if there is any wisdom you can lend me please do so. However I know that turnarounds is kind of broad subject, so I'm sure I'll be doing some practicing when i get off work and I'll be sure to come up with some solid specific questions about turnarounds that maybe you could shed some light on. Thanks again, I already feel at home haha. -Cheers

[natethegreat424]

Welcome to the gang, cult, crew, fretnet. Whatever.

Great intro. Only advice from me, patience. The practice part you've obvioulsy got down. :beer: :bravo:

Thanks man, from what I've read so far on the forum I'm gonna learn so much. Yea I agree with the patience thing, I know that no matter how well you understand the material, you don't necessarily know it until you've practiced it over and over. So I just need to be patient and not get frustrated. But being on this forum should help a lot.

[Robert]

Maybe this can help?

http://www.dolphinstreet.com/guitar_video_lessons/lesson-10.php

[piebaldpython]

Welcome Nate........there's a couple of books that I can recommend to you.....can't remember the exact name but there is a book called "TURNAROUNDS" by Rusty Zinn. It has a CD with it, tab, and it gives you a whole slew of different turnarounds.
John Ganapes has a series of books out called Blues You Can Use. He has one book about Blues Licks You Can Use and another is Chords For Blues. Excellent book giving you theory and exercises for chords.

[ted s]

If you want to learn the blues, here's some rules..

1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning."

2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, 'less you stick something nasty in the next line, like "I got a good woman with the meanest face in town."

3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes ... sort of: "Got a good woman - with the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher - and she weigh 500 pound."

4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch: You stuck in a ditch, ain't no way out.

5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken down trucks. Blues don't travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft and state-sponsored motor pools ain't even in the running. Walkin' plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die.

6. Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet, now that the Vietnam war is over. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, "adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.

7. Blues can take place in New York City, but not in Hawaii or any place in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don't get rain.

8. A man with male pattern baldness ain't the blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. Breaking your leg cuz a' alligator be chompin' on it is.

9. You can't have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster.

10. Good places for the Blues:

* a) highway
* b) jailhouse
* c) empty bed

Bad places:

* a) Ashrams
* b) gallery openings
* c) Ivy League institutions
* d) golf courses

11. No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be a' old black man, and you slept in it.

12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if:

* a) you're older than dirt
* b) you're blind
* c) you shot a man in Memphis
* d) you can't be satisfied.

No, if:

* a) you have all your teeth
* b) you were once blind but now can see
* c) the man in Memphis lived.
* d) you have a retirement plan or trust fund.

13. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues.

14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it's the Blues. Other acceptable Blues beverages are:

* a) bad wine
* b) bad whiskey or bad bourbon
* c) muddy water
* d) black coffee.

The following are NOT Blues beverages:

* a) mixed drinks
* b) kosher wine
* c) Snapple
* d) sparkling water

15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a broken down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or getting liposuction.

16. Some Blues names for women:

* a) Sadie
* b) Big Mama
* c) Bessie
* d) Fat River Dumpling

17. Some Blues names for men:

* a) Joe
* b) Willie
* c) Little Willie
* d) Big Willie

18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, and Rainbow can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

19. Make yer own Blues name (starter kit):

* a) name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.)
* b) first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi, etc.)
* c) last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)

For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc.

20. I don't care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot sing the blues. You best destroy it- with fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, or get out a shotgun. Maybe your big woman just done sat on it. I don't care.

21. Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Quakers cannot have the blues. Baptists, Methodists, lapsed Catholics, AME and AME Zion adherents and any member of any Holiness sect can. Jews cannot, although they can be in a New York state of mind that is a distant cousin to the blues. Muslims can have the blues but generally don't.

22. Cotton and wool make good blues clothing. Lycra does not.

23. Shoes with tassels are not blues shoes. Other dress shoes are, as long as they got holes in 'em from walkin' so far to try to find that no-good, sorry woman what left you. If you own a pair of Air Jordans, you cannot have the blues.

24. Bluesmen and -women play guitar, bass, drums, acoustic pianos and Hammond B-3 organs. They do not play synthesizers, cellos, trombones (except in New Orleans) or flutes. Sound men and club bartenders can have the blues. Booking agents cannot.

25. Reporters and editors can have the blues, if they're wearing their fedoras. Ad sales reps and Web-page designers cannot no matter what they wear. Photographers still working in film can have the blues; those working digitally cannot.

26. Football, basketball and minor-league baseball players can have the blues. Major-league baseball players cannot, nor can hockey, golf or soccer players at any level.

27. Engineers can't have the blues. 'ceptin' train engineers, of course.

[GREENMACHINE]

Hey Nate,
Welcome to thefret, its a great guitar community. You will learn lots here, I know I have!

[oldguy]

Welcome to TheFret, Nate! Glad you joined us here.

[sunvalleylaw]

Welcome Nate! Great intro! I am a relatively newer player (not quite 3 years) and am working on some of the same things. You will find lots of help here!

[warren0728]

welcome nate....this is a great place....i'm sure you'll leasrn lots from these guys.... :pancake:

[birv2]

Welcome to the fretnet, Nate. You will find a lot of very helpful and supportive people here, led by our Fearless Leader, Robert (who has lots of great stuff on his website).

I'm a little further along the blues highway than you. I've played guitar on and off for 40 years (ouch) and just started devoting myself to the blues 5 years ago. I would highly recommend the John Ganapes series of books (Blues You Can Use, More Blues You Can Use, etc.). I got the first two for Christmas, and they're golden.

Of course, you realize that it's great to have that vocabulary (licks, phrasing, scales, etc.), but what the blues is about is HOW you say it. In other words, it's all about the feeling. As they say, the blues is easy to learn but takes a lifetime to master. More than any other genre, I think, it comes out of your own life experience. There are lots of people who can play circles around the greats (the 3 Kings, Muddy, Hooker, etc.), but they just can't touch the feeling those guys have/had. If you want a good example, listen to Riding with the King, with BB King and Clapton. BB can say something in 2 notes, and EC just can't (no knock on him).

Anyway, welcome to the FretNet and the blues highway. Keep posting about your journey. We're travelling it together.

Bob

[Spudman]

Hi and welcome.:wave:

Blues ABCs right here (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=882).

[Rocket]

You can't learn the Blues, you can't read the Blues, you can't teach the Blues... you feel the Blues and express what you feel in whatever way you can be proficient at it whether it's guitar, drums, horns, vocals, writing... whatever.

It's a phantom limb itch. You know you'll never scratch it but that knowledge won't keep you from feeling it and driving you insane.
Trust that what I say is the absolute truth.

[F_BSurfer]

Hi and welcome to the fret

[SuperSwede]

Ted, you just taught me a lot of the blues....that post DESERVES to be a sticky post! :D

[tot_Ou_tard]

Ted, you just taught me a lot of the blues....that post DESERVES to be a sticky post! :D
:D

Welcome The Great!

[ted s]

I knew it was around here already somewhere.


Hi and welcome.:wave:

Blues ABCs right here (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=882).

[sunvalleylaw]

To introduce myself, my name is Nate, I'm 22 years old and have been playing guitar for around 4 years. I grew up playing piano taught classically for 6 years. This helped develop my musical sense at a young age however I never really felt that I truly understood the piano. Sure I could play the music sitting in front of me and memorize difficult songs, however how does that separate me from anyone else in the world. Thinking about it, anyone could read that same music and produce the exact same song. There is no individual style or feeling put into it. Basically i was limiting myself to only what was on the page. Never having the capability or understanding to play outside the box.



Rock on - Nate

BTW, I studied piano from about second grade until about 18 (that was a long time ago now though) and I know what you mean. I always wanted to be taught how to improvise in jazz/honkytonk/bluesey ways and be able to rock out. My teacher never did it. Typically assigned another Russian composer to study. I started guitar a couple years ago, and I do think the old piano experience helps because that part of my brain got wired that way when I was young, but it still seems a much different approach. Anyhow, glad you joined us in your search. :beer:

[mrmudcat]

welcome!

[Katastrophe]

Welcome!

A lot of blues centers around the tradition of paying homage to your influences by "borrowing" some of their phrasing. In the blues, it's okay to copy a turn around from, say, BB King, but try to find out where he got it from and work your way back.

Do this, and then listen to any Stevie Ray Vaughan solo. You'll hear all of his influences come out, but there's a respect there, IMHO.

If I could give you any advise about blues playing, fer Gawd's sake, don't limit yourself to just pentatonic scales. There is no right or wrong, only what sounds good in your head and heart.

Have fun with it, and post often!

[tot_Ou_tard]

I started guitar a couple years ago, and I do think piano helps because that part of my brain got wired that way when I was young,

I envy you your brain, or at least part of it. :D

[Brian Krashpad]

Welcome Nate.

[Jipes]

Hello Nate,

Happy to have another blues lover with us :AOK: As for the Blues I'm still trying to improve after all these years of playing but I have the feeling that "less is the best" ;)

More seriously listen to BB King, Buddy Guy and just try to copy what they're doing (as well as many other guitar greats) and you will find your way

You're young, so it will come with time no worries :D

[natethegreat424]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad to know there are so many people on this site with such experience and knowledge. I'm sure I'll be asking a lot of questions in the near future so be prepared haha. Also I looked into some of what you guys referred me to. Seems like the "Blues you can Use" series may be right up my ally. I think I may check it out. Other than that thanks again and I'm looking forward to making some serious progress in 2009!

[natethegreat424]

Hello Nate,

As for the Blues I'm still trying to improve after all these years of playing but I have the feeling that "less is the best" ;)

Would you mind expounding on that. I've heard that phrase before and I think I know what you mean by it. Essentially that most players believe that they need to fill every second with as many notes as possible. However learning how to make a couple really key notes hit makes all the difference...

If I'm correct in my definition than I completely agree and I've noticed that about myself recently. However I guess it just takes awhile to understand how to make those notes really count and say more with less. I'm sure once again practice is the key in that respect.

[Ch0jin]

You can't learn the Blues, you can't read the Blues, you can't teach the Blues... you feel the Blues and express what you feel in whatever way you can be proficient at it whether it's guitar, drums, horns, vocals, writing... whatever.

It's a phantom limb itch. You know you'll never scratch it but that knowledge won't keep you from feeling it and driving you insane.
Trust that what I say is the absolute truth.

Wow, I don't know whether to be discouraged or enlightened :)

Welcome Nate, this is a great forum!

Do a bit of a search for "Single String Scales" I think it is. Taught me how to improvise blues lead using just one string. (it's a great lesson for a few reasons actually, but in the context of less is more, single string runs are pretty "less") then try it with 2 strings. If you can force yourself to stick to it, I found it a great way to restrain myself from just running up and down the fretboard using the full blues or pentatonic scales.

Oh and Ted_s I loved your post, cracked me up, but I have a question...

12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if:

* a) you're older than dirt
* b) you're blind
* c) you shot a man in Memphis <-- So thats the difference. Shoot a man in Memphis and it's blues, Shoot one in Reno and it's Country?
* d) you can't be satisfied.

[Jimi75]

Hello Nate, and welcome to the Fret.

The Blues is not only a music style, it is knowing about its history and where it derives from, it has to do with feeling what you play and many more things. Learning licks etc is cool, but it is a lifelong challenge that you master with your growing experience. You will face times where you think "okay that's it, played all 12 bar schematics I could found, what now" but don't give in here, there is so many things to explore if you take a look behind the curtain. You are on a journey man. Let us know whenever you have questions. This is the place to be if you are looking for musical growth and great people!

Jimi75

[scgmhawk]

Welcome, Nate and Cheers! :beer:

You've already received some great advice and there's more to come, I'm sure! Check this link out. Good foundational course for not much money: http://http://www.amazon.com/House-Blues-Presents-Guitar-Course/dp/0978983297/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233073578&sr=8-1

[Tarin]

If you want to learn the blues, here's some rules..

1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning."

2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, 'less you stick something nasty in the next line, like "I got a good woman with the meanest face in town."

3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes ... sort of: "Got a good woman - with the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher - and she weigh 500 pound."

4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch: You stuck in a ditch, ain't no way out.

5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken down trucks. Blues don't travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft and state-sponsored motor pools ain't even in the running. Walkin' plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die.

6. Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet, now that the Vietnam war is over. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, "adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.

7. Blues can take place in New York City, but not in Hawaii or any place in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don't get rain.

8. A man with male pattern baldness ain't the blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. Breaking your leg cuz a' alligator be chompin' on it is.

9. You can't have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster.

10. Good places for the Blues:

* a) highway
* b) jailhouse
* c) empty bed

Bad places:

* a) Ashrams
* b) gallery openings
* c) Ivy League institutions
* d) golf courses

11. No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be a' old black man, and you slept in it.

12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if:

* a) you're older than dirt
* b) you're blind
* c) you shot a man in Memphis
* d) you can't be satisfied.

No, if:

* a) you have all your teeth
* b) you were once blind but now can see
* c) the man in Memphis lived.
* d) you have a retirement plan or trust fund.

13. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues.

14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it's the Blues. Other acceptable Blues beverages are:

* a) bad wine
* b) bad whiskey or bad bourbon
* c) muddy water
* d) black coffee.

The following are NOT Blues beverages:

* a) mixed drinks
* b) kosher wine
* c) Snapple
* d) sparkling water

15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a broken down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or getting liposuction.

16. Some Blues names for women:

* a) Sadie
* b) Big Mama
* c) Bessie
* d) Fat River Dumpling

17. Some Blues names for men:

* a) Joe
* b) Willie
* c) Little Willie
* d) Big Willie

18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, and Rainbow can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

19. Make yer own Blues name (starter kit):

* a) name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.)
* b) first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi, etc.)
* c) last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)

For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc.

20. I don't care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot sing the blues. You best destroy it- with fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, or get out a shotgun. Maybe your big woman just done sat on it. I don't care.

21. Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Quakers cannot have the blues. Baptists, Methodists, lapsed Catholics, AME and AME Zion adherents and any member of any Holiness sect can. Jews cannot, although they can be in a New York state of mind that is a distant cousin to the blues. Muslims can have the blues but generally don't.

22. Cotton and wool make good blues clothing. Lycra does not.

23. Shoes with tassels are not blues shoes. Other dress shoes are, as long as they got holes in 'em from walkin' so far to try to find that no-good, sorry woman what left you. If you own a pair of Air Jordans, you cannot have the blues.

24. Bluesmen and -women play guitar, bass, drums, acoustic pianos and Hammond B-3 organs. They do not play synthesizers, cellos, trombones (except in New Orleans) or flutes. Sound men and club bartenders can have the blues. Booking agents cannot.

25. Reporters and editors can have the blues, if they're wearing their fedoras. Ad sales reps and Web-page designers cannot no matter what they wear. Photographers still working in film can have the blues; those working digitally cannot.

26. Football, basketball and minor-league baseball players can have the blues. Major-league baseball players cannot, nor can hockey, golf or soccer players at any level.

27. Engineers can't have the blues. 'ceptin' train engineers, of course.

I'm sure this has been quoted a lot, maybe it's a "classic" blues-list and has been going around for some time now... don't know, but for me, it's the first time i've read it and, know what... laughed so hard it took my blues away!

[Monkus]

Blues Rules - my vote for sticky !!!

[oldguy]

Blues Rules - my vote for sticky !!!

Check here, Monkus..............

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=882