Re-engineering the gig rig

[Plank_Spanker]

I'm currently A/B'ing two combo amps for gigs, with a pedal board and a small rack for a wireless receiver, tuner and power conditioner.

I have had enough of hauling all this gear around! One combo (Johnson Millennium) weighs close to eighty pounds and feels more like a hundred pounds at the end of the night.

So a little house cleaning is in order..................................... and I'm going to the dark side.....................

I just ordered a G Major rack FX processor and a Ground Control MIDI foot controller. My new rig will be guitar > wireless receiver > tuner > wah > G Major > Germino Club 40. Goodbye boat anchor second amp and goodbye pedalboard! My only floor will be the foot controller and the wah. Once I get the patches on the G Major tweaked to my liking, all I have to do is stomp a switch to change voices - no more festive samba on the pedalboard.

I should receive the G Major and Ground Control in about a week, and I'm pumped!

[Robert]

That's good, making the rig lighter never hurts. I haven't heard about G major, have you tried it? What can it do?

[Spudman]

Less filling - tastes great. :beer: I'm sure that rig is going to be a blast for you to play and a lot less effort to haul. I'm interested in how the G Major works out for you.

[Blaze]

G- Major video clip


http://www.tcelectronic.com/files/popup_docs/quicktime_popup.asp?width=320&height=260&path=http://kidman.itide.dk/tccinema/g-major-minor/gmaj1_1.mov



http://www.tcelectronic.com/files/popup_docs/quicktime_popup.asp?width=320&height=260&path=http://kidman.itide.dk/tccinema/g-major-minor/gmaj2.mov

[Plank_Spanker]

I haven't heard about G major, have you tried it? What can it do?

Robert,

I played around with one a friend owns and I liked what I heard. It can do everything short of serving you breakfast in bed. :D

It an effects processor with 100 factory and 100 user presets. It's pretty popular with the rack guys. It's loaded with a ton of studio quality FX and it's MIDI controlled. I will be using a MIDI foot controller.......tweak and dial in the patch - assign it to a switch on the foot controller - rock out! I'll just set the Germino to run pristine clean and let the G Major do the talking. It can be bypassed so I can still use the Germino straight up if I need to.

No more pedal board, no more tap dancing on multiple pedals - just stomp one switch.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/TC-Electronic-G-Major-Guitar-Effects-Processor?sku=153002

Here's the controller I ordered:

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Digital-Music-Ground-Control-Pro-Foot-Controller?sku=153511

[Robert]

Will you run it in the amp's effects loop (if it has one)?

[Plank_Spanker]

Will you run it in the amp's effects loop (if it has one)?

That's the preferred routing for it. My Germino doesn't have a loop, so I'm going to run it straight in. I'll just have to take care setting output levels.

[hubberjub]

You do realize you are just opening up another can of worms. One rack unit just leads to another. Next thing you know you will be hauling around a refridgerator sized rack and you'll be even worse off than before. Just kidding. I've heard good things about the G-Major.

[Plank_Spanker]

You do realize you are just opening up another can of worms. One rack unit just leads to another. Next thing you know you will be hauling around a refridgerator sized rack and you'll be even worse off than before. Just kidding. I've heard good things about the G-Major.

LOL! :D

I actually did consider that, but the only purpose of going with the G Major is to reduce the size of my rig. As it is now, it sounds great, but I'm just tired of hauling two metric tons of gear around.....................I'm not getting any younger.

The G Major will replace my Johnson modeler in it's entirety, as well as my pedal board.

[t_ross33]

Far more sophisticated than my rig, but the theory is the same: guitar>wireless>Digitech GNX3000>DI to board and 1/4 unbalanced to Peavey Bandit (power amp in) thus bypassing the Peavey's preamp section. Doesn't take up much real estate and I can haul it all in my car if I have to. You're gonna love it once you have it dialled in!

Keep us posted, looking forward to a review and pics!

[Plank_Spanker]

The only concern I have is running the G Major through the amp's normal input. The owner's manual says you need a preamp in line with the amp to do it, and some guys say it works just fine run direct in. I sure wish my Germino had a FX loop. I'll still need the Tonebone for distortion and the wah pedal, but that, along with the MIDI controller, will be the extent of my floor. If it doesn't work out that way, I have other options. It should arrive by this weekend and I'll repair to the Man Cave for some serious experimentation.

I'm going to trim down the gig rig one way or another! :D

[Robert]

You can get an ISO line-out box like this?

http://www.suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx

But if I understand it correctly, you need another (!) amp to fed the output of the effects processor?

[Blaze]

Here is a little write-up on parallel loops and digital FX,,

http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=1513

[Plank_Spanker]

You can get an ISO line-out box like this?

http://www.suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx

But if I understand it correctly, you need another (!) amp to fed the output of the effects processor?

That still entails having a FX loop available. I'll know very soon if this is going to work with the Germino. If it doesn't, I have a Plan B.

[Robert]

No planky, as far as I read this, you don't need an effects loop with that unit. You go speaker out on the Germino -> line-out box -> effects unit. It's what you do after the effects unit that would be the problem though.

[Plank_Spanker]

No planky, as far as I read this, you don't need an effects loop with that unit. You go speaker out on the Germino -> line-out box -> effects unit. It's what you do after the effects unit that would be the problem though.

That would still present a big problem. I don't know if I would trust that box to present a line guitar level signal to the G Major. The speaker out of the Germino is WATTS, not milliwatts like a line level signal.

I'll know soon enough when the gear arrives..................and I can post and crow my success.....................or cry on your shoulders.............:D

[Robert]

Planker, that's the whole point with the box, taking the speaker out and making it line level.

[Plank_Spanker]

Planker, that's the whole point with the box, taking the speaker out and making it line level.

No offense Robert, but I'm very leery about knocking down speaker level signals to line level - for both preserving the quality of the signal, and trusting the box not to fry the input of the G Major. Another point is the speaker signal will be colored by amp, the wah and the distortion box, and distortion placed before modulation effects usually sounds bad.

We'll see. I might change my tune after I get a chance to see what I can get going with it.

[tunghaichuan]

Planker, that's the whole point with the box, taking the speaker out and making it line level.

From the Suhr site:


What it is NOT:

The ISO Line Out box is NOT a load box. In other words, the amplifier MUST have a speaker connected at all times. The ISO Line Out box is not a speaker cabinet emulator.

Behringer makes a DI100 (http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI100.aspx) which is similar in that it has an isolated transformer output. Behringer also makes a device called the GI100 (http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/GI100.aspx) which retails from about $35-$50US. HK makes something similar called the Red Box (http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php?mode=tech&id=110&hus=768fda5c52aea8eacee8c518abedb676)which is about $120. The GI100 has defeatable 4x12" cab simulation. The Red Box has a choice between a 4x12" cab or a 2x12" combo.

But like the Suhr unit, you must have a speaker load, or a dummy load connected to them.

tung

[Robert]

The ISO Line Out box is used to provide a transformer-isolated signal from any guitar amplifier speaker ouput jack. One common purpose is to provide a line level signal that feeds an effect processor. The wet only output of the effect can feed another amps effect loop return or power amp with speakers to have a Dry/Wet setup or even Wet/Dry/Wet.

Yes, it still needs to have a speaker hooked up. It doesn't make the signal line level, but it can provide such a signal. I don't think there is any tone degradation happening at all from this process.

[Plank_Spanker]

The G Major arrived yesterday and all of my worries have been put to rest. It works just fine run into the Germino's input. :D It sounds good, even run mono in to mono out. The output levels of the patches vary, and the Germino is very input sensitive, so I'll have to pay attention to the levels when I start editing the patches. I didn't hook up the Tonebone or the wah in the chain last night. I'll do that today and see what I get. The chorus and reverbs sound amazing. The bypass is nice and doesn't color or crimp the sound. Now, it time to start editing patches while I wait for the Ground Control to arrive. :D

Oh - sorry about being a stubborn luddite, Robert. I always appreciate your input.


I'm still waiting for the Ground Control to arrive.

********EDIT***********

After much experimentation, the Germino is out. With no FX loop, I'm forced to run the lead delay I need in front of the amp and it sounds terrible regardless of how I set it. So........................

I hooked it up to the FX loop of my Johnson combo. I set up a pristine clean Fender Twin model with no effects at all, and assigned the external loop to that patch ( I can assign the loop individually to patches), and it's working great. It sounds much more rich and full compared to running direct to the Germino. I still have full access to the rest of the patches without the G major in the loop, so no extra stomping needed. The Ground Control should be here today, and I'm going to start getting the G Major's patches set up with it.

I dug into the PEQ section of the Johnson and really beefed up the EQ for the distorted Marshall patches. They sound much better. I'm going to do a bulk dump from the Johnson combo to the spare head, so the head will have the same patches loaded and will be my spare amp.

Perfect tone? No. Very passable tone for gigs and versatile? You bet!

And I'm not hauling two boat anchor combos. The Johnson head is easy to carry in its road case........................and will serve as a stand for the combo.

[Plank_Spanker]

The Ground Control arrived yesterday evening. I'm now experiencing the joys of setting up MIDI devices, and the manuals aren't much help. I will endeavor to persevere..........................:D

[Robert]

Hmm, still should be a way to use the Germino with this thing...

[Plank_Spanker]

I would certainly like to, Robert, but it's lack of a FX loop is a show stopper when it comes to adding delay to a hot lead. Putting the delay in front of the amp's input pulses the distortion and it sounds terrible. If all was going to use was clean tones, I'd be golden with the Germino.

I did figure out how to configure the Ground Control and I have it all set up now. I got way ahead of myself, so I restored factory settings and started from scratch.

I'm good to go now.

The science project:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/axepilot/100_1830.jpg