When Did It Become "Just About The Amp"

[Viking Power]

Okay-a quick history of my guitar experience:

Owned a few cheapy electric 6 stringers in the mid to late 80's before going over to bass for a bit in the early 90's. Then went on a hiatus where I pretty much gave up trying to learn guitar but still loved music (this was '94ish to December of 2008).

When did it become all about the amp and not about the guitar?

I ask this, because all the threads that I have seen regarding guitar choice have a large amount of responses telling the poster to "spend less on the guitar and more on the amp" or "you can get any kind of sound out of any guitar as long as you have a good amp".

What the heck happened????????? I remember being a teenager in the 1980's and having serious debates with my buddies about which guitar is better for what type of music. :punch: Amps were kind of a secondary issue and the only other thing that really mattered were what pedals you needed for a particular sound.

Are guitars then, merely a fashion statement?:confused: Are they basically just keyboards that guitarists use to input notes and chords into an amp? Do they not have their own sound.....their own soul????????

Okay, maybe I'm ranting a bit, but I think I've made my point. Hoping to hear some of you gurus:master: explain this to me or at least tell me to STFU NOOB!:spank:

[Robert]

Sure the guitar matters. That's why I got a Suhr! :D

It's all an individual thing perhaps. Maybe it's easier to get a decent guitar for low money than a decent amp for low money? The Squier '51 was great for 100 some bucks, and I don't know of any amp that would give me such value. Epi Valve JR for example, would not give me the same "value for the money" as the '51 did. That's my personal opinion though. Others may feel differently.

A big sounding amp in the style of a Marshall or Super Reverb can also not be found for 100 bucks either, as far as I know. The '51 is not the same as a nice Am Fender of course, but it sure wasn't that far off either! :dude:

[Viking Power]

Sure the guitar matters. That's why I got a Suhr! :D



SWEET! :bravo:

[Rocket]

Guitar matters... there's nothing cheaper than a cheap guitar.
Amp also matters... same reasoning.

If they didn't matter, only one kind would be sold, (the cheapest kind!)

[markb]

Here's a little thing that I've found to be true:

Good guitar + good amp = good tone
Bad guitar + good amp = reasonable tone
Good guitar + bad amp = bad tone
Bad guitar + bad amp = arrrggghh!

Seriously, back in the (early) 80s, once you got past the 15w/8" practise amp stage you bought a Fender or a Marshall (or other classic tube amp) and so immediately joined the "good amp" club. After that the choices, and thus the opportunities for making a bad one, increased. Today, you can score a good sounding amp for very little money plus most of the "classics" are still around. There's no need at all to buy that toneless, generic "guitar amp, 50w, 12" speaker"" from the mail order catalogue.

Disclosure: I am a fully paid up amphead who used VOX AC30s up to 1985 and then various Fenders from 1985-2005 until moving to NZ forced me to rationalise.

[Viking Power]

Here's a little thing that I've found to be true:

Good guitar + good amp = good tone
Bad guitar + good amp = reasonable tone
Good guitar + bad amp = bad tone
Bad guitar + bad amp = arrrggghh!

Seriously, back in the (early) 80s, once you got past the 15w/8" practise amp stage you bought a Fender or a Marshall (or other classic tube amp) and so immediately joined the "good amp" club. After that the choices, and thus the opportunities for making a bad one, increased. Today, you can score a good sounding amp for very little money plus most of the "classics" are still around. There's no need at all to but that toneless, generic "guitar amp, 50w, 12" speaker"" from the mail order catalogue.

Disclosure: I am a fully paid up amphead who used VOX AC30s up to 1985 and then various Fenders from 1985-2005 until moving to NZ forced me to rationalise.

Thanks for the post. Good stuff.

[hubberjub]

I feel that having a good guitar is more important when you're a beginner that having a good amp. Having something that plays easily will inspire someone to practice more than having a guitar with sharp fret ends and mile high action.

[Brian Krashpad]

I feel that having a good guitar is more important when you're a beginner that having a good amp. Having something that plays easily will inspire someone to practice more than having a guitar with sharp fret ends and mile high action.

I think this is a good point.

If you're missing chord changes and putting out a clam a couple times a minute anyhow, tone is secondary.

Once you've got the basics of the instrument itself down, the amp does become more important (than previously-- not necessarily more important than the guitar).

[Ch0jin]

I guess I missed the memo about it being all about the amp cause I somehow have 4 guitars and only 2 amps :)

Seriously though, I'm totally in agreement with Hubberjub and Brian. The guitar is the most direct interface a guitarist of any level has with their music, so it's important that the guitar choice is appropriate before anything else. I do however agree with Mark that a great guitar into a bad amp equals bad sound, but thats only really important if you have already got the basics of guitar playing down, and as has been said, I think you need a good guitar first to enable you to do that.

[just strum]

I agree with Hubber. There is nothing that will discourage a beginner more than starting with a guitar that really is nothing more than a toy. I'm not saying to buy expensive, just know what you are buying.

A lot of us primarily purchase used guitars, and there are a lot of good guitars to be had with little money.

[bigoldron]

I agree with Hubber. There is nothing that will discourage a beginner more than starting with a guitar that really is nothing more than a toy. I'm not saying to buy expensive, just know what you are buying.

A lot of us primarily purchase used guitars, and there are a lot of good guitars to be had with little money.

Ditto. Too many potential players gave it up because they had some cheap piece of junk with a high action that's too hard to play and sounds like cr@p.

[Rocket]

A lot of us primarily purchase used guitars, and there are a lot of good guitars to be had with little money.
...plus a lot of great guitars to be had with big money!

[TS808]

One of the things about a cheaper guitar though is that you can always upgrade, which alot of people like to do. A MIM Standard Strat for example, is a pretty good guitar stock as is, but over time, you can upgrade the pickups, maybe replace the bridge, and it becomes an even better guitar. Plus, I think the gap in quality between imports and American guitars is closing a bit. Some good examples of quality guitars at good prices are Agiles, Dillions, etc.

Of course, now the landscape is changing a bit though, as Fender is now hiking up the prices of all their guitars, so landing an inexpensive guitar is going to be a little harder.

Plus, with alot of the amp manufacturing going overseas, you can grab a pretty good amp at a pretty good price.

[ZMAN]

I go back a little further than most and I have seen a huge change over the years in equipment. I was one of those that received a 50 dollar electric from my wife for Christmas in 1968. I had to buy a cheap 75 dollar amp and it was a horrible rig. I went to one of the first Ibanez SG copies in 69, and then sold that for a Gibson SG (1968) and a Super Reverb amp. That set up almost got me thrown out of my apartment.
I still have the SG and I sold the Super years ago. Back then you pushed your amp and the guitar gave you the tone you wanted. We had no idea about pedals and modelling amps were non existant, and electronic consoles were restricted to big studios.
I put the guitar aside in 70 or 71 and hardly touched it for 25 years. Then in 1995 I picked up the hobby again and I was shocked at the changes in gear.
I had missed the horrible years where Gibson and Fender suffered, and solid state had become the norm in guitar amps. Pedals were everywhere and you could just about get any tone you wanted.
The old cheap guitars were a thing of the past. NC machines and off shore suppliers had changed that.
Now you can get any number of computerized consoles that were state of the art in studios back in the 70s, and the amps and guitars now are made to amazing standards. Everyone knows the DC resistance of their pickups and can buy over the counter any pickup they want. So I think that yes it is all about the amp and pedals and less about the type of guitar you buy.
Most manufacturers have seen the trends and they have a full variety of pickup and guitar styles to fit anyones need, and you can customize them.
I think most of us home based players are trying to emulate their favourite band or guitarist, and are looking for that tone. It is very easy to get that with the electronics of today.
I can't speak for true musicians who make money playing but I think they are in the same boat, good guitars, and great pedals and amps.
Of course 90% of it is in the fingers, but we can tweak the other 10%

[Viking Power]

I go back a little further than most and I have seen a huge change over the years in equipment. I was one of those that received a 50 dollar electric from my wife for Christmas in 1968. I had to buy a cheap 75 dollar amp and it was a horrible rig. I went to one of the first Ibanez SG copies in 69, and then sold that for a Gibson SG (1968) and a Super Reverb amp. That set up almost got me thrown out of my apartment.
I still have the SG and I sold the Super years ago. Back then you pushed your amp and the guitar gave you the tone you wanted. We had no idea about pedals and modelling amps were non existant, and electronic consoles were restricted to big studios.
I put the guitar aside in 70 or 71 and hardly touched it for 25 years. Then in 1995 I picked up the hobby again and I was shocked at the changes in gear.
I had missed the horrible years where Gibson and Fender suffered, and solid state had become the norm in guitar amps. Pedals were everywhere and you could just about get any tone you wanted.
The old cheap guitars were a thing of the past. NC machines and off shore suppliers had changed that.
Now you can get any number of computerized consoles that were state of the art in studios back in the 70s, and the amps and guitars now are made to amazing standards. Everyone knows the DC resistance of their pickups and can buy over the counter any pickup they want. So I think that yes it is all about the amp and pedals and less about the type of guitar you buy.
Most manufacturers have seen the trends and they have a full variety of pickup and guitar styles to fit anyones need, and you can customize them.
I think most of us home based players are trying to emulate their favourite band or guitarist, and are looking for that tone. It is very easy to get that with the electronics of today.
I can't speak for true musicians who make money playing but I think they are in the same boat, good guitars, and great pedals and amps.
Of course 90% of it is in the fingers, but we can tweak the other 10%

Thanks for sharing your insight! Love the part about the SG/Super setup almost getting you thrown out of your apartment!:R

[ZMAN]

You are welcome Viking. I am even more surprised by the level of play of the average guy. It seems that everyone has a decent guitar and amp and some pedals and tons of information on scales, riffs to try and how to set up your equipment. Hell even the backing tracks. Just a frew years ago you had to hunt everywhere for cassette tapes. Now you can download hundreds of them.
I guess we should realize that the thing we are talking back and forth on has done more than we think to improve guitar playing.
The Computer.

[Bloozcat]

I once had an early 70's Gibson Les Paul goldtop w/mini-humbuckers and a 1966 Fender Stratocaster that was 100% pre-CBS in appearance and build (small headstock, transparent three tone sunburst, etc.). I could never get those guitars to sound good because I had two solid state amps that I played them through. At the time I thought that all I needed was loud, and these solid state amps were that. Even though I had played through friends Fender tube amps in the 60's, I had no appreciation for (or enough knowledge of) tube amp tone. It wasn't until I bought an old 25 watt Ampeg B-12 Portaflex from a friend that these guitars started sounding as they should have.

The point is, I could take a dead stock Squire 51 (a $100.00 guitar) and make it sound pretty darn good through any of my tube amps (I've done it), while I couldn't get those two really great guitars I used to own sound even decent through those lousy solid state amps. A guitar has to play well, sound good acoustically, and have decent electronics in it to sound good through a good tube amp...and that can be found for a lot less money today than years ago (especially when todays dollar vs. yesterdays dollar is taken into account). Obviously, a better made guitar with better components in it will only sound better, but not much through a lousy amp.

There has to be a certain balance between the guitar and the amp for sure, but based on my experiences I'd tilt the balance decidedly towards the amp.

[Robert]

I once had an early 70's Gibson Les Paul goldtop w/mini-humbuckers and a 1966 Fender Stratocaster that was 100% pre-CBS in appearance and build (small headstock, transparent three tone sunburst, etc.). I could never get those guitars to sound good because I had two solid state amps that I played them through. At the time I thought that all I needed was loud, and these solid state amps were that. Even though I had played through friends Fender tube amps in the 60's, I had no appreciation for (or enough knowledge of) tube amp tone. It wasn't until I bought an old 25 watt Ampeg B-12 Portaflex from a friend that these guitars started sounding as they should have.

The point is, I could take a dead stock Squire 51 (a $100.00 guitar) and make it sound pretty darn good through any of my tube amps (I've done it), while I couldn't get those two really great guitars I used to own sound even decent through those lousy solid state amps. A guitar has to play well, sound good acoustically, and have decent electronics in it to sound good through a good tube amp...and that can be found for a lot less money today than years ago (especially when todays dollar vs. yesterdays dollar is taken into account). Obviously, a better made guitar with better components in it will only sound better, but not much through a lousy amp.

There has to be a certain balance between the guitar and the amp for sure, but based on my experiences I'd tilt the balance decidedly towards the amp.

+1000 on that. :AOK:

[Viking Power]

You are welcome Viking. I am even more surprised by the level of play of the average guy. It seems that everyone has a decent guitar and amp and some pedals and tons of information on scales, riffs to try and how to set up your equipment. Hell even the backing tracks. Just a frew years ago you had to hunt everywhere for cassette tapes. Now you can download hundreds of them.
I guess we should realize that the thing we are talking back and forth on has done more than we think to improve guitar playing.
The Computer.


ABSOLUTELY!!

So far, just 2 months into my re-entry of guitar playing, I have already eclipsed a lot of my past playing. Is it because I am now taking lessons? Well somewhat, however I've only had 2 lessons so far. What it really has come down to is access to information provided by sites like this as well as others. The wealth of FREE information out there for us guit players is downright amazing!

Previously, in my younger years (1980's), when I was struggling to teach myself how to play with a bad guit/bad amp combo and a couple of Mel Bay books, I was miserable! I was stuck out in the sagebrush of eastern Washington State with no real "mentor" and just no information. The only hope was that I would have some extra cash to buy an issue of guitar player mag in hopes that it might have some tablature I could attempt to figure out. That's if I could get to a store that carried it!

Now, I can find the tab to just about any song I could ever want not to mention all the info on scales, chords, theory, etc. Also, although I haven't tapped into it too much yet, there are video lessons online as well! Good God! I am in noob ecstasy!:D

[Blaze]

You buy a Fender JV Strat (Japanese) on E bay($650,00) and
let say a General Gadget Guitar Blues_ breaker OD kit for $60.00 or so
and a Black star Ht 5 for $300.00 , a good use Sm 57 mic , you plug them all together in the PA and you sound nice and big..

You ll need a monitor on stage with this amp...(ah! ah!)

[Plank_Spanker]

Here's a little thing that I've found to be true:

Good guitar + good amp = good tone
Bad guitar + good amp = reasonable tone
Good guitar + bad amp = bad tone
Bad guitar + bad amp = arrrggghh!



That's my take as well. Good tone always starts with the guitar, but the amp is what makes the sound.

[markb]

That's my take as well. Good tone always starts with the guitar, but the amp is what makes the sound.

Tone may be "in the fingers" but it comes out of the speaker :)

[Plank_Spanker]

Tone may be "in the fingers" but it comes out of the speaker :)

The "tone is in the fingers" argument holds true but that is nothing but working the tone from the amp.