HNPD: Cool Cat Transparent OD [Archive] - Guitar Discussion Forum

tunghaichuan

February 4th, 2009, 01:42 PM

Just picked up a Danelectro Cool Cat Transparent OD. Maybe one of the last ones for sale in its current form :(

There is a big flap going on over at the Gear Page and Free Stomp Boxes. Apparently the TOD is a direct copy of a boutique pedal called the Timmy made by Paul Cochrane.

Details here (http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4065).

Someone from Danelectro contacted Paul (http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4293), and they are working to resolve it.

Anyway, I'll get some clips posted when I have a chance to try this pedal out. I'm working on my amp today, so I'll get to the pedal after I get done with the amp.

tung

markb

February 4th, 2009, 01:54 PM

I've been reading the debates too. Most interesting. I believe there's been a bit of a run on the Transparent OD's. How long before evilbay is full of "pre-lawsuit" models at inflated prices. Though of course Paul Cochrane can't afford a lawsuit. The Timmy is already a bit of a controversial pedal as lots of people appear to get on the waiting list just to sell the pedal on to the impatient for a premium. Tot had a Timmy last I heard, maybe we can get a comparison?

tunghaichuan

February 4th, 2009, 02:10 PM

While I feel for Paul, I don't know if Danelectro has anything to apologize for. He can trademark the look and name of the pedal, and the artwork/layout for the circuit, but he can't trademark the circuit itself. He can only patent it, and only if it is something novel. AFAIK, an opamp with clippers is not novel.

No one has suggested that Ibanez sue all the boutiquers who have built clones (sometimes exact copies) of the Tube Screamer. And no one has suggested that ProCo sue Ibanez for the Fat Cat which is a clone of the Rat.

No one feels sorry for Dumble, and there are *lots* of clones of his amps.

I would encourage anyone who wants to try this pedal to buy one now to avoid paying the "pre lawsuit" tax on the originals. I've already seen the MXR Classic Distortion, available only from GC in Dec. 2008 for $30, being flogged on ebay for double. Ditto on the BBE Green Screamers.

I've been reading the debates too. Most interesting. I believe there's been a bit of a run on the Transparent OD's. How long before evilbay is full of "pre-lawsuit" models at inflated prices. Though of course Paul Cochrane can't afford a lawsuit. The Timmy is already a bit of a controversial pedal as lots of people appear to get on the waiting list just to sell the pedal on to the impatient for a premium. Tot had a Timmy last I heard, maybe we can get a comparison?

markb

February 4th, 2009, 02:19 PM

AFAIK, an opamp with clippers is not novel.

In the beginning the was the Boss OD-1, closely followed by the Ibanez (Maxon) Overdrive Pro, later Tube Screamer which had (gasp) a tone control. Boss retaliated with the SD-1 and switched to the JRC4558 opamp as it was cheaper and effectively (sorry) no different to the expensive 14 pin opamp they were using originally. After that, everything is pretty much lawsuit fodder :)

What I don't get is why this cult has been built around the JRC4558. Every rubbish dump is full of the things in discarded audio equipment.

Robert

February 4th, 2009, 02:22 PM

So are you saying we should all hurry up and run out and buy one of these Cool Cat Transparent Overdrives?

tunghaichuan

February 4th, 2009, 02:25 PM

In the beginning the was the Boss OD-1, closely followed by the Ibanez (Maxon) Overdrive Pro, later Tube Screamer which had (gasp) a tone control. Boss retaliated with the SD-1 and switched to the JRC4558 opamp as it was cheaper and effectively (sorry) no different to the expensive 14 pin opamp they were using originally. After that, everything is pretty much lawsuit fodder :)

Thanks for the history lesson, I did not know that. :AOK:

What I don't get is why this cult has been built around the JRC4558. Every rubbish dump is full of the things in discarded audio equipment.

Because SRV use a pedal that had that chip in it.

I have a DOD FX-55B Supra Distortion that has the JRC4558 chip in it. I think it sounds great, but everybody else in the world hates DOD pedals. Which is fine with me because I paid $20US for it. :D

tung

Robert

February 4th, 2009, 02:46 PM

I just put in my order for a Transparent Overdrive! :D

tunghaichuan

February 4th, 2009, 03:13 PM

I hate to tell anyone how to spend their money, but it looks like Dano is going to change the circuit around. And many online suppliers are out of stock. But if you want to try the current version, yes I would buy one. Especially if you don't want to get raped by an ebay seller. :messedup: Of course, I could be wrong.

tung

So are you saying we should all hurry up and run out and buy one of these Cool Cat Transparent Overdrives?

tunghaichuan

February 4th, 2009, 03:21 PM

I just fired up my stock VJ head and tried out the Transparent OD.

Pros: sounds pretty good. Very, uh, transparent :D The EQ works great. There are two bands: bass and treble and are on a concentric pot. There is a lot of gain on tap, but unlike some pedals, you can dial back the gain control and still get a good crunch sound. True Bypass?

Cons: even though the case is metal, it still feels kind of flimsy. The battery door on the back is thin plastic and will eventually break or get lost. The control knobs are tiny and not on the face of the pedal, so they are a PITA to turn. The also work conter intuitively. It does not work as a clean booster (volume up, gain down). The footswitch feels kind of sticky, not smooth.

Still, not a bad pedal for $40.

tung

Spudman

February 4th, 2009, 03:40 PM

I just put in my order for a Transparent Overdrive! :D

I did last night too. Every single one that was on the auction site vanished right away and MF and M123 are all back ordered.

markb

February 4th, 2009, 04:15 PM

Still stock in NZ. What am I bid? Hey, I could scalp on the shipping too :rotflmao:

duhvoodooman

February 4th, 2009, 04:16 PM

tunghaichuan

February 4th, 2009, 04:21 PM

markb

February 4th, 2009, 05:27 PM

Guess what? I just ordered one too, Music Planet, Auckland NZ$76 shipped (US$39 at today's rates). This controversy isn't hurting Danelctro's sales, is it?

duhvoodooman

February 4th, 2009, 06:57 PM

I just went over and picked one up on eBay for $43 including shipping. I've heard so many good things about the Timmy pedal, this price is a steal if it's truly the same circuit, which apparently is the case.

Here's the 'Bay link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:31&Item=280269395022

Big seller with exemplary feedback, so worth the risk in my book....
With reports of many places being sold out of this pedal, I sent a message to this eBay seller, asking if they really had the stock to fill my order. Here's what I sent:

"I just bought one of these Cool Cat Transparent OD pedals from you. I understand many places have sold out of this model. Please confirm you have the stock to fill my purchase."

To their credit, I got a response back in about 90 minutes--quite impressive for a large volume eBay seller! It said:

"I understand. We've been swamped with orders for them. Yes, we have some here, and another 26 coming tomorrow, probably late, and another 11 coming next week. I should be able to ship yours by Friday. No problem. Thanks so much."

So this would appear to be an excellent place to pick one up, if you're interested. :AOK: :dude: :bravo:

BTW, the March issue of Guitar Player has a test of 21 distortion pedals, including two of the Danelectro Cool Cat line, though not this particular one. Both did very well compared to the others tested, many of which were in the $200 - $300 range! The only thing they didn't like were the knobs--basically the same issues as Tung mentioned in his comments. Very complimentary of the tones, though, and the value of these pedals speaks for itself.

Blaze

February 4th, 2009, 07:55 PM

Got one here !

http://www.amazon.com/Danelectro-CTO-1-Transparent-Overdrive-Effects/dp/B001AUPQ2Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1233798800&sr=8-2

Robert

February 4th, 2009, 08:15 PM

I hope Tung gets some commission for all these Fret.Net sales! :D

Blaze

February 4th, 2009, 09:47 PM

G_9Gk8-s3ZY

2JTRELAJ6QM&feature

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/bieke2/Dano/IMG_0265.jpg

Spudman

February 4th, 2009, 10:19 PM

markb

February 4th, 2009, 11:00 PM

So far I think they sound pretty good. So I got two - one for me and one for some guy who missed out on them before they changed the circuit design and will be willing to shell out big bucks because he thinks the Timmy is over priced.:cool:

The Timmy costs $129. That's for a handwired pedal with true bypass (yawn), a clipping switch and a socketed opamp. Pretty good value, I think. The real pain is the 8 month plus waiting list. Timmy's sold on evilbay are overpriced because people are buying them to sell on to those who just can't wait :thwap:

If I really like the TOD, I might well order a Timmy. The Dano pedal might last until I get to the top of the list :)

Spudman

February 4th, 2009, 11:32 PM

I just ordered 144 of them. I figure what the heck. Who's going to seriously wait 8 months for a pedal that costs $130 when they can get from me in a week for just $75?:pancake:

duhvoodooman

February 5th, 2009, 08:38 AM

Actually, Paul Cochrane's Timmy pedal (IMO) isn't overpriced at all. $129 for a handmade pedal is more than fair--take it from someone who is in a position to know, based upon what's involved in making them. I give Cochrane a lot of credit for not jacking the price through the roof and managing the demand that way. Instead, he's got a several-months-long waiting list of customers who want his pedal's particular sound and recognize that his price is a relative bargain among "boutique" pedal makers. $200 - $300 is the more typical range for an in-demand pedal like his.

The cost driver for hand-made pedals is the labor, not the parts. That's why Danelectro, who cranks them out on an automated production line in China, can afford to sell 'em for $40 and still make a decent profit. But I'm sure they pay a lot less for the parts, too, by buying in bulk.

Being a pedal maker myself, I would feel guilty about buying the Danelectro if not for the fact that I would never consider spending the $129 for another OD pedal--even a very good one--or waiting for months to get one. So in doing so, I'm not taking business away from Paul and giving it to Danelectro. But I'm happy to see that the Danelectro people have apparently been in contact with Paul to sort this out. Hopefully, they do the right thing--change the design and work out some kind of monetary settlement with him for "borrowing" his design for several months. As I understand it, legally they owe him nothing. But what's legal and what's right are so often two different things....

tunghaichuan

February 5th, 2009, 08:48 AM

duhvoodooman

February 5th, 2009, 08:58 AM

One thing that confuses me about the whole debate is that people are eager to jump on Danelectro for making a cheaper alternative to the Timmy. Yet no one has jumped on the opportunistic sellers who buy Paul's pedals, then turn around and flip them for a profit. When Dano sells pedals, its Evil. When sellers flip Paul's pedals for a profit, it capitalism. :confused:

tung
I think maybe the logic is that in the latter scenario, Paul doesn't lose any business. Such people are just pandering to the impatient who want one NOW and are willing to pay for it. In that sense, they're just satisfying a demand that's out there and that Paul doesn't service directly with his business model. Though I do agree with you, Tung--strikes me as price gouging and taking advantage of the situation. Then again, nobody holds a gun to the heads of those who pay these inflated pass-through prices....

F_BSurfer

February 5th, 2009, 09:55 AM

Either way this falls I bet both are enjoying all the free publicity
I have had this pedal for couple months now and really enjoy it alot ....like it best w/epi and 18w tmb

markb

February 6th, 2009, 01:11 AM

And the debate rages on. Here's one user's comparison between TOD and Timmy. No audio or video though :(

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=503563

Ro3b

February 6th, 2009, 10:11 AM

Hm. Apparently the Cool Cat fuzz (which I'm having major fun with these days) is a clone of the Frantone Peach Fuzz (http://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4169&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a). Looks like somebody at Danelectro is doing their homework.

duhvoodooman

February 6th, 2009, 10:19 AM

....Looks like somebody at Danelectro is doing their homework.
Or copying the answers of the smart kids, depending upon how you look at this kind of thing!

tunghaichuan

February 6th, 2009, 10:57 AM

Or copying the answers of the smart kids, depending upon how you look at this kind of thing!

Copying circuits is nothing new. The trademark only protects the artwork and look of the packaging. The circuit itself is up for grabs, unless it is patented. And there are very few new circuits. Most of them are just tweaked versions of existing circuits. Some pedals are direct copies, often lifted from the manufacturer's data sheets. It's one reason that some pedal manufacturers put goop on their circuit boards, to protect their tweaks.

This is the reason that Leo Fender couldn't sue Jim Marshall for copying the Fender Bassman. It is the reason that Dumble goops his amps, they are just high gain tweaked out versions of Fender amps. In turn, Fender amps were based on circuits published by Western Electric.

tung

tunghaichuan

February 6th, 2009, 11:09 AM

I think maybe the logic is that in the latter scenario, Paul doesn't lose any business. Such people are just pandering to the impatient who want one NOW and are willing to pay for it. In that sense, they're just satisfying a demand that's out there and that Paul doesn't service directly with his business model.

Actually, Paul does lose business, if someone buys from a gouger, then they're not buying from Paul. It is the same thing only for different reasons: buying the Dano results from people not wanting to spend $130 on a pedal. Buying a used, but marked up Timmy results from people not wanting to wait. So Paul loses out on both accounts.

Though I do agree with you, Tung--strikes me as price gouging and taking advantage of the situation. Then again, nobody holds a gun to the heads of those who pay these inflated pass-through prices....

True, I agree.

tung

duhvoodooman

February 6th, 2009, 12:09 PM

Actually, Paul does lose business, if someone buys from a gouger, then they're not buying from Paul. It is the same thing only for different reasons: buying the Dano results from people not wanting to spend $130 on a pedal. Buying a used, but marked up Timmy results from people not wanting to wait. So Paul loses out on both accounts.
Not sure I agree with your reasoning here, Tung. I would think that the majority of these gougers buy the pedal for the express purpose of turning right around and selling it at a higher price. In such a case, they merely serve as a middle man--Paul still gets his sale and somebody ends up with Paul's pedal, albeit at a higher price. They pay the premium to avoid waiting several months.

In any case, he's obviously "sold out" if his waiting list is months long. So you can't really say he loses any sales--even to Danelectro--if he's always working from a big backlog of orders. Of course, I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here, too! ;)

tunghaichuan

February 6th, 2009, 12:24 PM

Yeah, I will concede that my reasoning may be faulty here. It just seems to me though, that it is a bit hypocritical for TGP members to blast those who buy Dano TOD pedal but don't blast those making a profit on Paul's work.

Okay, I'll shut up now. :D

tung

Not sure I agree with your reasoning here, Tung. I would think that the majority of these gougers buy the pedal for the express purpose of turning right around and selling it at a higher price. In such a case, they merely serve as a middle man--Paul still gets his sale and somebody ends up with Paul's pedal, albeit at a higher price. They pay the premium to avoid waiting several months.

In any case, he's obviously "sold out" if his waiting list is months long. So you can't really say he loses any sales--even to Danelectro--if he's always working from a big backlog of orders. Of course, I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here, too! ;)

markb

February 6th, 2009, 02:47 PM

The video comparison we've all been waiting for?

Ma6HjVb3doM

duhvoodooman

February 6th, 2009, 03:26 PM

Pretty damned close. The Timmy sounded a bit brighter & more open, but that could just be smallish differences between the control pot settings. I'm feeling pretty good about that $43 I spent....

Spudman

February 6th, 2009, 03:37 PM

I thought the Dano had more of a pronounced midrange when activated. I noticed this particularly at about 1:30 in the video. Still the Dano sounds pretty good.
I think the Timmy sounds thin by comparison.

Robert

February 6th, 2009, 04:36 PM

I liked the Dano on this clip better too.

F_BSurfer

February 6th, 2009, 06:15 PM

close enough that I'm even more pleased with my purchase

Blaze

February 6th, 2009, 09:52 PM

close enough that I'm even more pleased with my purchase

Same for me ! :AOK:

F_BSurfer

February 7th, 2009, 09:26 AM

For somebody wanting a incredible buy...... three very useful pedals for one cheap price free shipping to boot

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Danelectro-Cat-Pack?sku=501248

duhvoodooman

February 9th, 2009, 09:17 AM

Got my Cool Cat TOD in the mail on Saturday. This Hairy Harry's Music that I got it from may be the best large volume eBay seller I've ever dealt with. Prompt e-mail reply, lightning shipment, excellent pricing, including the shipping. I noticed that the price has gone up $2 to $37, though. Supply & demand, pure and simple....

The pedal sounds very, very good--really quite amazing for the price. Smoother tone than a TS, and not as mid-rangey. Good EQ control range, with separate but concentric treble and bass knobs. I spent most of the weekend fooling around with my new OD2 build, so this one needs some more playing time for me to get better acquainted with it.

The metal casing is a real step up from previous Danelectro effects I've owned, which were all plastic--though I've yet to break one! The knobs take a little getting used to, but really not as bad as some of the comments I've seen posted. Has an attractive matte gold finish. The stompswitch has a nice sturdy feel, too, and a proper "click" when operated.

It's pretty scary that Danelectro can crank out something this good for $40 or so.

Blaze

February 9th, 2009, 09:41 AM

Comparaison with Lespaul & Marshall

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/paul-cochrane-timmy-vs-danelectro-transparent-overdrive-guitar-effects-pedal-shootout-w-les-paul/288230383961282327/?icid=VIDURVMUS03

duhvoodooman

February 9th, 2009, 10:01 AM

Listen to the voice in this clip. The guys over at HC seem pretty convinced that this guy is Jack Black, the actor & avid guitarist. Gotta admit--sounds just like him!

Spudman

February 9th, 2009, 11:15 AM

Listen to the voice in this clip. The guys over at HC seem pretty convinced that this guy is Jack Black, the actor & avid guitarist. Gotta admit--sounds just like him!

It's not Jack. I did a bit of sluething and it's not him. And...the guys at HC aren't that bright either.:D

They don't sound too much the same on this video to me. Still the Dano is what I'm looking for. I've already got all the midrange overdrive anyone could ever need with the ZYS so the Dano will be an alternative.

BTW Voodoo- I put a great big ZYS picure up at HC on another one of the "best TS" threads that go on weekly and incuded a link to your web site.

duhvoodooman

February 9th, 2009, 12:13 PM

It's not Jack. I did a bit of sluething and it's not him. And...the guys at HC aren't that bright either.I wasn't convinced based upon such flimsy evidence, but I had to admit the guy sounds a lot like him.

BTW Voodoo- I put a great big ZYS picure up at HC on another one of the "best TS" threads that go on weekly and incuded a link to your web site.Thanks, dude! :AOK: :dude:

tot_Ou_tard

February 10th, 2009, 07:57 AM

As Mark said I have a Timmy, but mine cost $105 I believe. I was on the waiting list for maybe 8 months, but it wasn't a big deal as I forgot about it in the interim.

I am not good enough to put a pedal through all of its paces, but I love mine, so I am happy.

I also want to add that Paul C (Timmy's maker) is a very nice guy.

On the other hand, inexpensive good pedals are a good thing.

Perhaps I should lend my Timmy to Spud, Robert, or Vood for a shootout with their Danos.

Spudman

February 10th, 2009, 12:34 PM

I got one and I like it. There are times that some midrange hump comes in handy but with the TOD I now have the option of NOT having the hump.

I've only tried it with the Blackheart so far and it's just that little something that morphs the BH into an amp on steroids (small dose). No color just grit. I've even driven the TOD with the Bad Monkey and doing so yields a lot more compression but even though the Monkey is feeding a darker signal the TOD seems to brighten it back up.

I also fed the TOD a Rat signal. That combo was smooth and articulate but too bright. There needs to be some knob tweaking done to run those two together that way.

Now I'm off to try it with the Delta Blues and H&K Edition 20.

Spudman

February 10th, 2009, 01:20 PM

Just did a test with the Delta and H&K. I ran the pedal - tone at noon, drive at noon, and volume turned to around 9-10 o'clock.

Through the H&K I could get a nicely driven workable sound at a much lower level using the clean channel. It sounded very natural and worked well with the guitar's volume control. On the gain channel it wasn't as nice as I would have hoped. It's probably due to the characteristics of that particular amp though. The gain was over compressed and a little too glassy but that is kind of how that amp is anyway.

Through the Delta clean channel at low volume it sounded much the same as without the pedal and turning the amp up but with the peal there was more note clarity. Dropping the guitar's volume still retained some high end and clarity. There is a little distortion square wave in the over driven signal but it's a good sound. Through the drive channel it was really nice. The bass notes actually sounded more defined and there was no brittleness to the high end. That might be attributable to the 15 inch speaker. Still good clarity and presence when the guitar's volume was rolled back.

Even at the pedal settings described above the drive channels sounded very good and good feedback was easy to achieve. The real kicker is turning up the pedal volume. Wow! There is plenty of power on hand to make your amp sound on fire. On either amp's clean channel I only noticed a slight amount of hiss when the pedal was on. It's not noise free. It's not much but it's there.

All in all I find this a highly usable pedal with a very good sound.

duhvoodooman

February 11th, 2009, 01:35 PM

On either amp's clean channel I only noticed a slight amount of hiss when the pedal was on. It's not noise free. It's not much but it's there.
It's awfully hard to find a pedal with a significant gain factor that doesn't generate at least a bit of noise. Pretty much the nature of the beast. This one is very quiet, as they go. I've seen quieter, but for a lot more $$.

All in all I find this a highly usable pedal with a very good sound.
Absolutely, yes. Great value there for ~$40. Even beats out the Bad Monkey, which IMO has held the overdrive pedal "value crown" for quite some time.

Spudman

February 11th, 2009, 04:01 PM

It's awfully hard to find a pedal with a significant gain factor that doesn't generate at least a bit of noise. Pretty much the nature of the beast. This one is very quiet, as they go. I've seen quieter, but for a lot more $$.

Absolutely, yes. Great value there for ~$40. Even beats out the Bad Monkey, which IMO has held the overdrive pedal "value crown" for quite some time.

I was just saying that there was some so that folks don't think it's a super duper boutique pedal.;)

It has way more output than the Bad Monkey but the two do stack well together. I think it is a better pedal for my purposes than the Monkey alone.

Blaze

February 11th, 2009, 04:23 PM

Absolutely, yes. Great value there for ~$40. Even beats out the Bad Monkey, which IMO has held the overdrive pedal "value crown" for quite some time.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=504231

I m waiting for mine , should get it pretty soon...

Nice pedal on your avatar DVM..

markb

February 18th, 2009, 12:18 AM

So, my TOD arrived yesterday (at 7:30 am!). So far it sounds good. Nice crunch, cleans up well, true bypass, etc. But, it lacks sustain (or, "this amph can't do screaming solo"). I thought I'd sell it on and stick with my SD-1 and then I turned the gain down below halfway. My but there's a world of good edgy tones to be had down there. Conclusion, it's a good rhythm OD (they don't call one of the suggested settings "Leeds Crunch" for nothing) and a really good "dirty boost". I think I'll keep it just for the boost. Did I mention it's very, very loud? Like, volume below 1/4 loud?

BTW, in testing this pedal I've realised just how good the SD-1 is. Not totally "transparent" but pretty good in that respect and with tons of sustain and harmonics. The TOD isn't totally transparent either, I'm sure I hear a thickened midrange but nowhere near a Tube Screamer honk.

Spudman

February 18th, 2009, 12:39 AM

markb

February 18th, 2009, 12:49 AM

Mark
Try driving the TOD into an amp ready to go over the edge or one that is already saturating. You might find the TOD very useful in that instance. You might also try driving it into another OD pedal. I love stacking.

I always run my clean tone right on the edge, think Fender DR on 4 and a bit and, yes the TOD is great for that slight push into breakup. Do you hear what sounds like quite a bit of clean tone coming through with the OD or is the pedal just that articulate?

tot_Ou_tard

February 18th, 2009, 05:55 AM

I always run my clean tone right on the edge, think Fender DR on 4 and a bit and, yes the TOD is great for that slight push into breakup. Do you hear what sounds like quite a bit of clean tone coming through with the OD or is the pedal just that articulate?
My experience with the Timmy is that it is very articulate. I only use it in the boost/low gain/crunch realm. When I want a little more going on harmonically but I don't want to kill the dynamics or string definition. It's known to be a gritty rather than a smooth violiny overdrive.

Don't be afraid to kill a lot of treble &/or bass at higher gain settings. If it works like the Timmy that is what the bass/treble cut knobs are for. You can keep your highs & lows at low gain settings & back them off as needed as the gain rises.

markb

February 18th, 2009, 03:15 PM

My experience with the Timmy is that it is very articulate. I only use it in the boost/low gain/crunch realm. When I want a little more going on harmonically but I don't want to kill the dynamics or string definition. It's known to be a gritty rather than a smooth violiny overdrive.

Don't be afraid to kill a lot of treble &/or bass at higher gain settings. If it works like the Timmy that is what the bass/treble cut knobs are for. You can keep your highs & lows at low gain settings & back them off as needed as the gain rises.

This is where the TOD differs. The tone controls are boost/cut unlike the Timmy's reversed cut controls. That's where it all goes a bit wrong in the comparison video. At one point he talks of turning up the tone controls whereas he's actually cutting treble on the Timmy and boosting it on the TOD.

birv2

February 22nd, 2009, 11:04 AM

Just picked up one of the TOD's yesterday, fuelled by all those rumors of Timmy comparisons and thinking that if it didn't work out I could always flip it.

But man, I'm really liking it so far. It's got a really BIG sound without being all bassy. Would be great as a clean boost. Since I live in an apartment, I have not been able to really crank it yet, and I'm hoping that it gets enough gain for me. I'd like a bit more than "light" overdrive, though not full-on distortion. It is very transparent, as advertised. Looking forward to taking it to the jam this week!

:rockon:

Bob

tot_Ou_tard

February 22nd, 2009, 11:10 AM

Other differences with the Timmy.

1) Timmy has dip switches that allow you to select symmetric clipping, asymmetric clipping, or a more compressed symmetric clipping.

2) Timmy has a socketed op-amp, so that if you are like Vood you can change op-amps at will.

3) Timmy can be run at 18 volts.

None of the above may matter one whit to you.

Someday I'll try different op-amps in mine.

tot_Ou_tard

March 16th, 2009, 06:55 AM

Straight from a post today on TGP from Paul Cochrane:

I'm all for guys saving money. That's why I've done everything i could to keep the prices as low as i could even though the used prices are around 2x what i sell them for. I've never jacked up the price even though I could. I've wanted to do right by the players.

Now I'm seeing that a lot of players don't care about that stuff. Maybe i should have jacked up the price to make as much as i could while it was hot without worrying about the players...

The thing is that people don't have to have this pedal. If they don't buy my pedal it will not effect their lives. In my case if people don't buy my pedal it does. I'm out of work, and I can't support my family.

If people buy the clone ment to undercut me they save the price of a couple of pizzas. This is a one time savings for them of not very much. But for me it's pretty serious. If everybody goes with the clone of my product than I'm out of work in just a few months.

People are wanting the sounds that my pedal produce, but another company has come in and decided to sell it for less than I do. Some guys are looking at it like the player wins without seeing that I lose. It's very depressing seeing that attitude towards me - "I want what paul makes, but I don't want to pay him for it". so what happens is Dano wins by making a sale. The player wins buy getting something that does what I designed it to. I'm the one that's lost because my only source of income has been taken away from my family in a time where there are no new jobs.

And no matter what the opinons of others are this is how I feel about this. I'm the one missing out in this deal, and I'm the one that made the damn things.

PaulC
tim/timmy pedals
myspace.com/paulcaudio

Robert

March 16th, 2009, 07:32 AM

Danelectro has posted on TGP saying they will alter the circuit so that it's not a clone of Paul's pedal.

tunghaichuan

March 16th, 2009, 08:54 AM

I've been following this controversy on The Gear Page and freestompboxes.org, where someone reverse engineered the TO and discovered it was the same as the Timmy circuit.

I feel for Paul because I can understand how frustrated he feels in trying to feed his family with something that he designed only to have a large corporation copy it and sell it cheaper.

OTOH, I don't think it is fair to attack Danelectro for copying a circuit and not all the others who have cloned circuits (e.g. Ibanez Tube Screamer). In fact most of the "boutique" ODs are either direct or slightly tweaked TS copies.

TGP is a strange place. The posters there seem to be very selective in whom they attack. I've seen several threads where posters have asked for the best clone of a certain piece of gear, namely the aformentioned TS and even the Soldano SLO. No one from Ibanez protested all the cloners making TS copies and Mike Soldano didn't protest people making clones of his amps. No one from TPG came to the defense of Ibanez or Soldano, either.

Another thing that bothers me about the TGP is all the real Tim and Timmy pedals being sold for much more than the current retail price. I must have seen at least 10-20 in the last month. Nobody from TGP has jumped in and called the gougers on making money off of Paul's design. Paul is so backlogged with orders that anyone with a Tim or Timmy pedal can charge $75-$100 over list price and get it. All so that the buyer doesn't have to wait a few months. This hurts Paul too as the sale could have gone to him instead of making an opportunistic seller an extra $100. Where is the ethics discussion in regard to this? I've even heard sellers boast that they ordered a second pedal only to sell it and make a profit.

My understanding of the situation is that the only protection Paul has is over the name, layout and physical appearance of his product. He can't copyright a circuit. He had to have patented it. But since he didn't, he has no legal protection. I'm not a patent attorney, but looking at the circuit, I don't know if he even could have gotten a patent for it.

tung

Spudman

March 16th, 2009, 09:30 AM

Well said. It does seem as if folks are being overly selective. I'm glad that you said this.

I've been following this controversy on The Gear Page and freestompboxes.org, where someone reverse engineered the TO and discovered it was the same as the Timmy circuit.

I feel for Paul because I can understand how frustrated he feels in trying to feed his family with something that he designed only to have a large corporation copy it and sell it cheaper.

OTOH, I don't think it is fair to attack Danelectro for copying a circuit and not all the others who have cloned circuits (e.g. Ibanez Tube Screamer). In fact most of the "boutique" ODs are either direct or slightly tweaked TS copies.

TGP is a strange place. The posters there seem to be very selective in whom they attack. I've seen several threads where posters have asked for the best clone of a certain piece of gear, namely the aformentioned TS and even the Soldano SLO. No one from Ibanez protested all the cloners making TS copies and Mike Soldano didn't protest people making clones of his amps. No one from TPG came to the defense of Ibanez or Soldano, either.

Another thing that bothers me about the TGP is all the real Tim and Timmy pedals being sold for much more than the current retail price. I must have seen at least 10-20 in the last month. Nobody from TGP has jumped in and called the gougers on making money off of Paul's design. Paul is so backlogged with orders that anyone with a Tim or Timmy pedal can charge $75-$100 over list price and get it. All so that the buyer doesn't have to wait a few months. This hurts Paul too as the sale could have gone to him instead of making an opportunistic seller an extra $100. Where is the ethics discussion in regard to this? I've even heard sellers boast that they ordered a second pedal only to sell it and make a profit.

My understanding of the situation is that the only protection Paul has is over the name, layout and physical appearance of his product. He can't copyright a circuit. He had to have patented it. But since he didn't, he has no legal protection. I'm not a patent attorney, but looking at the circuit, I don't know if he even could have gotten a patent for it.

tung

marnold

March 16th, 2009, 09:51 AM

Kudos to Danelectro. They really were under no obligation to do that. Tung, I'm not a patent lawyer either but my guess is that there would be plenty of prior art to invalidate the patent. If Ibanez (if you can even originally trace it to them) had patented the Tube Screamer design, there basically wouldn't be a boutique pedal market.

I'd also guess that people were more likely to jump on Danelectro because these are Chinese made, mass-produced pedals. It seems that nothing gets people's undies in a bundle quite like that. Many of the boutique clone manufacturers are American. Is it fair? No. Is it arbitrary? Yes. Is it borderline xenophobia? Mayhaps. Is it surprising? Not for a nanosecond.

duhvoodooman

March 16th, 2009, 09:58 AM

It seems to me that Paul is also ignoring the free publicity he's gotten from all this. I wonder how many people who read through that TGP thread and had never even heard of the Timmy may end up buying one, for whatever reason. Also, the "can't feed my family" comment rings a bit hollow to me, given that he has a months-long waiting list. As long as Danelectro has agreed to change the circuit (which I give them a lot of credit for doing, since there is apparently no reason that they need to do so, from a legality standpoint), I really wonder if this will hurt him at all. Until his waiting list drops to zero, he hasn't actually lost a single sale--he's selling everything he can make, until that point is reached.

Blaze

March 16th, 2009, 10:01 AM

markb

March 16th, 2009, 02:09 PM

What Tung said and what DVM said. I also agree with Marnold that some of the venom spouted on TGP is precisely because the Danos are made in China. I'd be more convinced of the righteous anger if it were aimed at the parent company, whoever and wherever they may be. TGPers seem quite happy living with their Grolsh/Nash/K-line/Danocaster/etc etc. Fender guitar clones.

Robert

March 16th, 2009, 02:27 PM

Yeah my thinking is also, if the circuit design isn't patented, can you really complain? I completely agree with DVM and Tung's and Marnold's posts too.

bigoldron

March 16th, 2009, 07:43 PM

Haven't read or followed this thread, but from the last few comments I'm seeing, it sounds like a case of "sour grapes". I got one of those Cool Cat TOD's and it totally RAWKS! I can see why this Paul guy is upset. It sounds way good to me. But, as you some of you pointed out, there's no problem with cloning somebody else's pedal and he's got more orders than he can handle. So, what's the problem? Get over it, dude!

markb

March 19th, 2009, 09:22 PM

OK, I've had a while with the TOD now. Here are my thoughts.

1. It has way too much boost. I rarely get the level beyond 10 o/c.
2. Despite that it's a great low to medium gain pedal. Cut the treble and bass controls and it's TS-like, boost them and it's much more open.
3. More open, yes, but there's still a mid hump.
4. It is possible to get harsh tones out of this pedal but that just illustrates the range available on the tone controls.
5. It loves my tele and it's great for kicking the blackface tones of my TM60 into tweedland (better than the TM's "tweed" emulation).

I'm currently running it with Gain ~ 12:30, Bass 9:00, Treble 11:00, Volume (for a slight boost over bypass) ~ 10:00 with a strat. With the tele I pump up the tone controls (more mids in that guitar) and cut the volume to compensate.

Conclusion: Keeper :AOK: