Guess he may be A-Fraud After All

[R_of_G]

According to today's news, NY Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids during the 2003 season (the season he was AL MVP for the Texas Rangers).

If this story is true, it's a real shame.

I was enjoying watching A-Rod make his march up the ranks of the all-time home run standings. Now he may be as tainted as the man who currently holds that record. I know nothing has been proven in the Bonds case about his knowledge of what he was taking, but it has been proven that he did use steroids. His record will always be tainted by that for me. He may be able to prove in a court the cheating occurred without his knowledge, but it still occurred.

I felt better about it thinking that if he stayed healthy, A-Rod could challenge the Bonds number several more years down the line. Now I won't care because it would appear he cheated as well.

I suppose I'll try to think of it as Henry Aaron's record for most home runs without cheating.

The whole thing makes me feel dirty for loving baseball. Just how many of these guys were cheaters anyway? It seems like more and more all the time.

Anyway, here's the article...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ga08p3lsWdla0TRU6ElMmpEEN3LgD966U1DG0

[just strum]

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[sunvalleylaw]

Haven't cared about him since he became a traitor and left the M's after their Cindrella run back in '96 or so. If he could leave the M's like that, I can believe anything of him. ;) (displaying irrational regional pride and complete naivete regarding professional sports :D )

[R_of_G]

You can have him back if you'd like Steve. As a Yankee fan, it makes me sad that he's on my team. I'd rather have someone who may put up lesser numbers but at least comes by those numbers honestly. I'm not into rooting for cheaters and definitely not for cheaters who lie when they get caught.

On the plus side for the M's, it was really nice to see them sign Griffey this week. It's exactly where he belongs to finish out his career. It's a shame his career was marred by so many injuries. The numbers he put up even with the injuries suggest that had he played more regularly, we'd probably not even have to consider A-Rod or Bonds because Griffey would be the home run king and he'd have done it without cheating. Also, he appeared on the Simpsons, so plus one for him.

[wingsdad]

As a Red Sox fan who'd been among those who suspected long ago that A-Fraud was juiced, I was actually relieved when we lost the bidding war for his services to the Yankees.

But it's disturbing to me that now they're trying to connect David Ortiz (and others) to this embroglio via association with that scumbag trainer.

And as a Red Sox fan who watched Roger Clemens lead U-Texas to the College World Series title and whose prayers were answered when we drafted and landed him I was crushed by the revelation of his steroids use, but not all that surprised, seeing him bulked up by more than age after joining Jose Canseco in Toronto (as A-Rod and Raf Palmeiro had in Texas...oh...the Cubs traded Palmeiro to Texas for....Sammy Sosa! OMG! who did Canseco 'infect' in his short tenure with the Sox?)

I believe it was one of the Great American Baseball Philosophers, either Leo Durocher or perhaps Lawrence Peter (Yogi) Berra, who replied to some question about one of the 'fine arts' of the game ('neigborhood' basetags; a baserunner clutching a handful of dirt 'to protect his fingers in a slide' letting it out of his hand into the wind as he passes in front of the shortstop...):

"It ain't cheatin' if you don't get caught."

Those little 'arts' are part of 'the game'.

As an avid baseball fan (much more so than other sports), the whole 'steroids era' thing is pretty disgusting, but not surprising given that long-standing philosophy.

[R_of_G]

As an avid baseball fan (much more so than other sports), the whole 'steroids era' thing is pretty disgusting, but not surprising given that long-standing philosophy.

I still draw a distinction between taking advantage of things within the game itself like those you mention and taking chemicals designed specifically to increase one's physical abilities. That other stuff is most assuredly part of the game and the crafty players in all sports know of little things they can do in certain situations which may be advantageous, but it's not the same as taking a drug to give you physical gifts you don't already have.

I'm not particularly surprised by it either. It's hard to have seen so many players suddenly get bigger and stronger without wondering why this was happening.

What saddens me the most was the number that was given out when the A-Rod story broke, that A-Rod was one of 104 players who tested positive for steroids in that series of tests. That is approximately 13.5% of active players, or enough to field over two entire teams. What that tells me is that it is probable that there are cheaters on each and every major league team and that saddens me. It makes me question who isn't cheating. I know that most of these guys are still playing by the rules, but with 13.5% of them testing positive, it makes you wonder who really deserves the benefit of the doubt. I still believe in innocent until proven guilty, but that does little to quell my suspicions.

Still, I am looking forward to the season starting so the baseball talk can be focused on what happens on the field. I just wish Rodriguez was playing somewhere besides the Bronx. I will be happy for the Yankees if he plays well because he's there so he may as well contribute, but I'd be happier if he were gone.

[wingsdad]

I still draw a distinction between taking advantage of things within the game itself like those you mention and taking chemicals designed specifically to increase one's physical abilities.
I absolutley agree. Although if you read Jim Bouton's 'Ball Four', 'greenies' were a 'secret' part of the game way back then that gave players an edge.

That other stuff is most assuredly part of the game and the crafty players in all sports know of little things they can do in certain situations which may be advantageous, but it's not the same as taking a drug to give you physical gifts you don't already have. ...
Or like a pitcher applying pine tar or slippery elm to the ball?

Let me just be perfectly cleaer: I'm not in favor of the steroid or other performance enhancing drug use (hgh, etc). :mad:

Oh, yeah...with 25-man rosters (until Sept. 1), 104 guys is enough for 4 teams...or 1 out of every 7. But I see the point if we're talkin' 40-man active rosters...:) yes, I'm afraid there's juicers on every team. :(

[just strum]

Yep, I long for the day when ball players were respectable drunks, gamblers, tobacco chewing, and womanizers. Just kidding (I think).

Enjoy

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[marnold]

My concern is that A-Rod is bearing the brunt of this while 104 others silently remain anonymous. That silence casts a shadow over the entire era.

[R_of_G]

You're absolutely right Marnold. A-Rod is taking the heat not only for the other 103 who failed that round of tests but also for the guys who were outed after their careers were essentially over (Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire, etc). I think a lot of it has to do with Rodriguez having been seen as the clean guy who would eventually hit more home runs than Bonds and take the record back. Now he's just another cheater.

Frankly, I don't really know what the answer is. Obviously more stringent testing and severe penalties will help settle any questions going forward, but the doubts will linger for awhile I suspect.

I agree with the position taken by Derek Jeter that it might be beneficial to the players who are clean to release the names of the other 103 cheaters. Those whose names are not on that list will be removed from the cloud of suspicion. Of course I don't think the union will allow this to happen, and ethically, I'm not sure I disagree. The players agreed to take the tests on the ground they were anonymous. That A-Rod's results were made public doesn't change the nature of that agreement. Those players, as much as they are guilty of cheating, took those tests with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

And Wings, I definitely see where you're coming from and I largely agree. As far as the spitball pitchers though, while I do concede that that is most assuredly cheating, I do think cheating comes in gradations. Getting caught doctoring a ball or corking a bat should get you ejected from a game and should carry a suspension and fines, but I don't think it should be punished as severely as taking drugs to alter your ability to play the game.

I guess I see the intent of throwing the spitter as trying to win a specific individual game (or maybe even simply to get a single out) whereas the intent of taking steroids is to enhance your overall productivity. While not entirely sure of my position, I'm fairly sure I favor a zero tolerance policy for performance enhancing drugs. Get caught, get banned.

[peachhead]

Cheating has always been a part of the game, but somehow I don't think steroids are quite the same as throwing a spitter.
I've grown disillusioned with the thought of grown men, getting paid millions to play a game for a living, and thinking that gives them the right to cheat and not have to pay the price. Go out, get a real job and let me know how that works out for you. Maybe if we went back to the days when you had to work during the offseason he may think differently.

Don't mind me, I'm just grumpy. :messedup:

[piebaldpython]

And Wings, I definitely see where you're coming from and I largely agree. As far as the spitball pitchers though, while I do concede that that is most assuredly cheating, I do think cheating comes in gradations. Getting caught doctoring a ball or corking a bat should get you ejected from a game and should carry a suspension and fines, but I don't think it should be punished as severely as taking drugs to alter your ability to play the game. .

:rotflmao: Throwing a "spitter" is trying to win a specific at-bat. They don't throw spitters on EVERY pitch. Corking a bat is in essence the same as taking steroids. It makes EVERY swing of the bat a POTENTIALLY "superior" hit in that the ball gets hit shaper/harder than a ball hit by a non-corked bat. I have no idea how much (%-wise) the ball travels corked or un-corked.

I do know that steroids gives roughly a 10-15% jump in power. That's (30-50 feet) the differnce between hitting to the warning track and into the bleachers. That means more home runs, higher RBI and higher batter AVG, which translates into more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s that player can command at the bargaining table.

[marnold]

The super-ultra-mega stupid thing about all of this IMO is the fact that Barry Bonds and A-Rod would be absolute hall-of-fame locks without the 'roids. When Barry Bonds still looked like Chris Rock he was one of the best players in the league.

[duhvoodooman]

If there are any true "villains" behind the whole steroid mess in the MLB, it's the owners and league officials who KNEW this stuff was going on and chose to turn a blind eye to it, because the balls were flying out of the stadiums and the fans were flocking in. As usual, greed--the lust for the almighty dollar--was at the heart of this shameful episode, to the detriment of the integrity of the game.

These are professional athletes we're talking about here--arguably the most competitive people on earth. As steroid use began to take off, the vast majority of players who were clean looked around and saw these "juicers"--and don't think for a moment they didn't know exactly who these guys were--getting bigger, faster & stronger and having their stats going through the roof.

Remember Brady Anderson of the O's? In '93, '94 and '95, he hits 13, 12 and 16 home runs, respectively. In '96 - 50!! Does anybody truly believe that he "just had a good year"? Not to single him out, just a particularly glaring example of the times. The sad story of NL '96 MVP Ken Caminiti is another. And of course, the "big names" that we now know were pumped full of 'roids and HGH. A-Rod is just the latest in a long line of these fallen heroes.

So these super-competitive guys saw other players excelling, knew exactly how they were doing it, and could see no apparent "down side" to it, given the blind eye that the MLB power structure was turning to the issue. Can anyone truly be surprised that the doping became rampant and included many of the elite players? Professional athletes will always look for an "edge"--and this was a HUGE one!

Sure, these players are accountable on an individual basis. But the reason that the steroid scandal occurred on such a widespread scale was the total lack of will that Major League Baseball officials and ownership had for doing anything about it.

Again, just my opinion....

[R_of_G]

I agree in large part DVM. There is plenty of blame to go around. Primarily I blame each and every individual juiced player because each of them made their own independent decisions to cheat. However, I agree with you completely that MLB management (both league management and individual owners) did absolutely nothing to stem the problem which must have been crystal clear to them. Instead, they marketed the game on the big home run numbers being put up by guys they knew were cheating. They now reap what they've sown.

Bud Selig can complain all he wants that he tried to clean up the game but the union wouldn't let him. It falls on deaf ears in my case. I think (a) he's lying, and (b) he's giving the union far too much credit. He has many options available to him with which he could have fought the union and from what I saw, he took none of these options. He needs to do baseball a favor and step down as Commissioner immediately. I really never understood why he was allowed to be Commissioner as his family owns a team, but I guess that's a different question (or is it?)

[duhvoodooman]

I really never understood why he was allowed to be Commissioner as his family owns a team, but I guess that's a different question (or is it?)
Different queston, maybe, but same basic answer--greed. Or "revenue maximization" would be the more euphemistic way to state it, I guess. Should have never been allowed to happen, because it constitutes a blatant conflict of interest. The Commissioner needs to be independent of ownership and be focused on what's best for the game--not it's profitability. When aksed about his success or failure as a Commissioner, the first thing Selig always mentions is the attendance/revenue growth during his tenure. IMO, MLB Commissioners shouldn't be measuring their success in that way! :nono:

[R_of_G]

I agree completely DVM, revenues are not the barometer to measure a Commissioner's success. Of course, since the days of Judge Landis, the Commissioner's office has been a tool of the ownership and it has only gotten worse as time has gone by. If we ever really want to see baseball run by an independent commissioner, it's time for the government to pull MLB's anti-trust exemption. There is no reason they should be above the law.

[marnold]

I hold the Players' Union responsible to a large degree too. They really stonewalled against testing. They are far more concerned with protecting the big names than with the rank-and-file. The whole steroid fiasco proves it. Now one of the big names has been outed but a haze of suspicion covers everybody.

[R_of_G]

True and good point Marnold. The union can share the blame as well as they have been a major impediment to progressing beyond this issue. I'm all for trade unions protecting the rights of the workers, but the job of a union is not to protect its employees from any form of punishment when the employees break clearly established workplace rules.