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M29
July 14th, 2006, 10:18 PM
Hello,

Well I am working on upgrading my Chinese Squier SE-100 Strat. I am putting in copper shielding, making my own steel trem block, add new electronics and repaint it. I picked up a Squier '51 maple neck off the web a while back and have fit it to the Squier Strat body. The neck had been sanded by the previous owner and I did a little more sanding to it and gave it a Min Wax Golden Oak stain to add some amber to it. They just look so (white) when freshly sanded. I put two coats of this stain on and I feel it looks just right. Next I have to clear coat it.

The reason I am writing this is that there may be some interest in one of my steps. I am very fussy about adhesian when I paint something and I like to run tests to make sure my paint is going to stick. Well...in the past, I have had problems with paint sticking to poly urathane, shoot even poly sticking to poly. With a poly body on this Squier Strat I wanted to make sure I don't have trouble with paint coming off later on. I usually use my auto paint tools and compressor to paint a guitar but this time I am going to use spray cans. I found a product which is a self etching primer used for bare metal that I tried on the inside routed surface of this Strat. I was shocked at how good it sticks to the poly finish and thought I would recommend it to you guys.

You have to make sure the surface is properly prepared which means it is clean and sanded well. I used 320 grit for this along with a burgundy scratch pad you get at auto parts stores. The surface has to be completly dull. In the following image, I left one area with the original shine so you can see why you need to dull down the old finish and give some tooth so the primer can adhere. The area at the left (red circle) was scratched with a pocket knife with quite a bit of pressure to test adhesian and you can see the small scrape marks with shavings of primer next to the scrape. To the right (white circle) where I did not sand, I used my finger nail and the primer came off very easily.
At this point I should probably mention something about slicone. Silicone has been a painters nightmare for a very long time. There are may products that contain silicone like waxes and polishes. I don't know for sure but the lubicants for fingerboards may have it in it as well and you need to watch out that this does not get under your paint. We have a tread mill that you are supposed to spray silicone lubricant under the belt every now and then and that is the worse thing you could do is spray an aerosol of silicone in an area where you are going to paint something. The reason to be concerned about this is that it is very difficult to get off once it is on something and paint does not stick to it very well and it can cause what painters call fish eyes which look like little creaters in the paint. There are cleaners for this but sometimes they don't get it all off. When you clean off your guitar parts make sure you get the dirt up off the surface. Some people spray a cleaner on and just smeer it around, you need to use plenty of cleaner and lots of cloths to absorb it up off the part. You need to watch you hands as well and make sure they are clean and grease free while handling a part to be painted.

http://webpages.charter.net/tankm4/adhesian.jpg

The brand of primer is (Valspar V880 Self Etching Primer). I will get a picture of the primer can tomorrow if you guys want to try it yourself. I imagine most auto paint supply stores will carry it. I have not tested how the (ReRanch Surf Green) will stick to the primer but I don't think there will be a problem as I have put paints over this primer before and they all stick well. This primer is a light gray in color which is good to put over my black Strat body as a base to help the Surf Green get up to color quicker.

Well my forhead keeps tapping the space bar so I better get to bed. I hope this helps.

If anyone is interested I will put up some images as I go along with this project.

I hope this helps.

M29

Katastrophe
July 15th, 2006, 02:46 AM
Very informative, thanks for sharing! I hope when you keep sending updates as you go along. For example, how did the '51 neck fit to the SE body? Did you have to plug and redrill the holes? Is there a gap at the neck / body joint and did you have to fill the gap somehow?

Interesting info... Keep it coming!:D

M29
July 15th, 2006, 08:11 AM
Hello Katastrophe,

Thank you.

Well...I had a tough decision concerning the neck. I really liked the Squier neck that I had on the Strat but I have always wanted a maple neck and when I got the '51 neck at a decent price I thought maybe I would put it on the Strat. Also when I happen to remove the original neck a previous owner had buggered up a couple holes that I thought needed some attention.
I also got a Strat Bullet neck (rosewood) with the '51 neck off the web and what I found out was that the bolt holes on (all) these necks did not line up with the holes in the body very well even with the original! This is good to know when someone buys a loose neck off the web or from somewhere where you cannot try them out for fit. I knew the Tele neck was not supposed to work on a Strat but once I got looking into it I found that by butting the heel of the Tele neck to the Strat body it fit in the exact same place as the original, so intonation should not be a problem and the neck socket fit well on both sides. The problem with a Tele neck is that they are flat at the heel just past the 21'st fret where a Strat neck is rounded. I got the Strat for a good price at a pawn shop and thought well... I will do what ever it takes to come up with something a little different as long as it is reliable.
The Strat neck socket was factory routed with an irregular surface at the heel and the Tele neck fit as good as the original neck so I went a head. Width and height wise at the socket they were same.
Yes I did have to plug the original holes in the Tele neck, which was the troubling part as I am usually against doing this type of thing but the new holes were far enough away from the old holes that I went a head with it.
There is a gap in each corner of the neck socket from the routing tool, which was there on the original neck as well and I plan to fill that and make a nice solid jount which should improve the sound transfere, I just don't know what I am going to use to fill it with. I may use Devcon epoxy and put vasiline on the neck so it does not stick to it. This stuff flows really well and is very hard when dry. I would like to use wood but the socket is so irregular it would be difficult to make a piece to fit it. I suppose I could re rout the rear of the socket and put a wood plug in but I do not want to put that kind of time in this guitar but now that I am thinking about it it may be the best way to go. The only problem with this is that there would be a significant amount of glue along with this joint as well and I might not really gain that much. It is going to be kind of a wammer jammer guitar but I do want to do a decent job on it.

I want to make this as informative as possible so you all can make your own decisions, my decisions may not always be the best decisions so please check other sources before using what I suggest. I know there are very knowledgeable builders here and I welcome your expertise and suggestions as I do not want to misslead anyone on this type of work and have you end up with an inferior guitar. Hopefully we can have some fun and learn a bunch of stuff along the way with this project. I have a Warmoth Jassmaster body arriving in a couple days and that will be another porject we can play with later this summer or fall.

I hope this is of some help.

M29

M29
July 15th, 2006, 09:33 PM
Hello,

Here is an image of the Valspar spray can primer.

http://webpages.charter.net/tankm4/valspar.jpg

Here is a photo of the original Squier neck (Bottom) along with the Squier '51 neck. You can see the oblong holes in the original (Bottom) which got me started on this project in the first place. The neck would tighten fine but I was just not happy with this when I pulled the neck off for an inspection.
Also, you can see the difference in the shape of the heel with the Strat (Bottom) and the '51.

http://webpages.charter.net/tankm4/neckheel.jpg

This is a shot of the neck socket which I will try to fill and make tight to the heel of the '51 neck.

http://webpages.charter.net/tankm4/necksock.jpg

M29

Katastrophe
July 16th, 2006, 06:30 AM
Cool info, M29!! It's amazing how far the neck holes were off in the Squier neck. I've seen similar pictures of the neck pocket corners before. Wouldn't know the best way to fill 'em in, if it's even necessary.

Didn't Ritchie Blackmore glue and bolt his Strat necks in, for better sound transfer? Interesting theory...

And, this is absolutely helpful. If I ever decide to do a build up project, this'll be great information to have, in order to avoid some stumbles along the way. It's great to see what other people have in mind for custom projects, and I enjoy reading about the successes and challenges that occur in a project, too!:R :DR :D

M29
July 17th, 2006, 10:08 PM
Hello Katastrophe,

Yeah I was surprised as well to see how far off the holes were in the Squier neck and also with another neck I have not shown here.

Thank you for the kind words on the project. I have not heard that about Ritchie Blackmore but it does sound interesting.

Here is where I am at with the shielding. I don't know if this will be any good or not but I guess I won't really know until I try it out.

http://webpages.charter.net/tankm4/shieldstrat.jpg


I hope this is of some help.

M29

Bloozcat
July 18th, 2006, 07:54 AM
Hello Katastrophe,

Yeah I was surprised as well to see how far off the holes were in the Squier neck and also with another neck I have not shown here.

Thank you for the kind words on the project. I have not heard that about Ritchie Blackmore but it does sound interesting.

Here is where I am at with the shielding. I don't know if this will be any good or not but I guess I won't really know until I try it out.

http://webpages.charter.net/tankm4/shieldstrat.jpg


I hope this is of some help.



M29

M29,

There's a product that you may be familiar with that may be of some help you in filling the gaps in your Strat neck pocket. The product is actually made for glass bedding rifle actions to stocks for a tight gap free fit. It's called AccuGlass and it can be purchased from a company called Brownells. There are two versions, I find that the gel version works best due to it's thicker consistency. The great thing about the way the product works is that you use the two pieces fitted together under working pressure to create the fit. The glass gel goes into the areas that need to be filled, and a release agent is applied to those surfaces that you don't want permanently bonded with the neck pocket (in this case the neck). After the neck and body have been joined for 24 hours with the gel in place, you disassemble the pieces, trim any excess hardened gel material, and you have a form fit neck pocket joint. As a word of caution, I have not personally used this on a guitar neck pocket, but I have read of others using it successfully. I will tell you that from my experiences glass bedding rifle actions to stocks (and I have done many of these), it is most important to apply the release agent very liberally to the parts that you don't want sticking (again, in this case the neck).

Anyway, just some food for thought. Maybe it'll help.

M29
July 18th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Hello Bloozcat,

You got it! I totally forgot about AccuGlass that would work very well. Thank you for the info.
We need to talk.....I will PM you.

Concerning the shielding. Do you have any suggestions on whether I should glue the copper sheets down? I am afraid I might end up getting rattles or buzzes. I suppose I would not need to take it out in the future so I could glue it down. I would like the option to take it out though. I think the surface of the routs are too rough to use a tape, it may still end up buzzing.

Thanks again Bloozcat for your time and help.
M29

Bloozcat
July 18th, 2006, 09:09 AM
You're welcome!

You might try a light dusting spray of some of the 3m aerosol glue. I use it like that to stick sandpaper to my wood radius sanding blocks. It holds well, but comes off easily when I'm through. You just have to be careful not to use too much. A tacky surface is all you need.