Should skill level determine quality/price of gear?

[Robert]

I see this brought up frequently and I want to hear your thoughts about this. Either it's something like "a good player like you should play something better than a Squier", or it can be the opposite - "I can't justify buying that because I'm not very good (yet)".

Is price vs skill really that relevant? I think not.

If you have money to burn and you can barely play, so what? Just buy that fancy guitar or amp if you want it. It may even accelerate your learning, since it's a great piece of gear.

Same way, if an incredible player uses a crappy instrument and/or amp but he/she sounds great, let him/her do his thing. Maybe it's a financial situation issue, or the crappy piece of gear just works great for this player.

Some people buy boats, RV's, motorcycles, huge plasma TVs, etc. We buy guitar gear, and we use it and have a lot of fun with it. That should be all that matters.

What's your thoughts?

[tjcurtin1]

I think you have it right, Robert. Personally, I would feel sheepish owning anything really expensive given my ability (as well as guilty, given our income level!). But as you note, many of us have some kind of hobby or another that we are willing (or driven) to spend money on - each to his own!

[luvmyshiner]

I agree with you 100% Robert. If I allowed my skill level to dictate what gear I purchased, I'd be playing this:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m159/luvmyshiner/06199.jpg

Besides, good gear inspires me to keep playing and to play more.

[sunvalleylaw]

Nah, play what you like, and what encourages you to play.

[thearabianmage]

Well, in my opinion, I think that skill level should not dictate gear purchases. There are exceptions - like the aforementioned 'spoiled rich kid' with all the effects but no chops. That would be a case of shiny lights dictating purchasing which I think is not a good thing.

But when it comes to guitars, I believe that a beginner with a good guitar is just about one of the most positive things that can effect their playing and development on the instrument. Of course if it's a very expensive guitar, the person may be afraid to touch it let alone play it - but that would probably be a price issue, not a skill issue.

On the other hand, I also believe it's healthy for a good player to play a pile of junk every now and again. I'm not saying I'm a good player, but since I've got Bubba - which is the cheapest guitar I've got (compared to my Jacksons, Aria Pro II, BC Rich) but it's one of my favourite to play. On the other hand, when I first started out, I had a really nice guitar and, for various psychological reasons, it inspired me to play more and more. Just looking at her made me want to play.

I think it's all about the individual finding their personal balance, whatever the case is.

[peachhead]

I don't think your skill level should determine your gear but my personal opinion is to get the best gear you can afford, at least once you decide you are going to be serious about it.

[Childbride]

i believe that you should play the gear that you can afford to play that inspires you to pick up the gear every night.

[street music]

I'll take a stab at this thread since I'm in a stage of G>A>S>. I have the desire to purchase a FENDER TELE, but I ask myself could I settle for a Squier or Xavier? I won't be playing in a band anytime soon, I have a lot to learn. I love the reputation of FENDER but should I spend my money on more lessons and then think about a guitar later? I've been watching for a good used TELE but haven't found the right deal. I'm currently satisfied with my amps, I have 2 electrics guitars and my Takamine. I thought about asking Strum for advice-he's too far ahead of me with that new white axe above.
I have had good vibes from my GODIN, and my SX is very nice too, I'm at that stage of SHOULD I or SHOULDN'T I. DANG ROBERT YOU HAVEN'T MADE it easy?????????????:crazyguy:

[marnold]

The problem with absolute beginners is that there's no guarantee that they'll stick with it at all. In that case having a guitar that is good enough (stays in tune, sounds good, easy to play) would do the trick. The other issue is that when you first start you have no idea what you want. Gibson or Fender scale length? Humbuckers, single coils, P90s? Some combination therein? Floyd or hard tail? It would kind of suck to spend a ton on a single humbucker hot rod because it looks cool only to find you'd rather be playing a Tele.

Generally speaking, the amount of disposable income will be a greater factor. I don't begrudge someone having a very expensive guitar who can't play a lick. Whether that money would be better spent elsewhere is debatable. Unless they are a member of my family or of my congregation, it's really none of my beeswax anyway.

If someone is doing this professionally or semi-professionally, instruments and amps are tools of the trade. You should get the best you can afford since that's how you are earning a (part of your) income.

[bigoldron]

I think maybe Obama can offer this as a "stimulus plan": offer every guitar player a voucher for one (1) guitar and one (1) amplifier of his or her choice, regardless of skill level. That'd get the old economy working! :D

[araT]

i believe that you should play the gear that you can afford to play that inspires you to pick up the gear every night.

+1 :D

[Ch0jin]

Looks like we are all on the same page :)

I (well until I lost my job anyway) definitely fit the category of "the suit who wants an expensive guitar but can't play one"

OK so I can actually play a little, but the point is, I bought my first Maton without even considering the cost. I just wanted the best guitar I could lay my hands on and tried everything until I found something that fit me, then dealt with the money later. I wanted to avoid that little voice in the back of my head that has a habit of saying "I bet if you'd bought the next model up you'd play/sound better" When you go straight to the top of the range that voice has nothing left to say. OK so that voice did come back later and say "Woo, this is nice, but I bet you'd rock with a hollow body style" and so I also have one of those now too, but I'm sure you know what I mean.


I think maybe Obama can offer this as a "stimulus plan": offer every guitar player a voucher for one (1) guitar and one (1) amplifier of his or her choice, regardless of skill level. That'd get the old economy working!

That'd be awesome! (If I lived in the US.......) haha

[Plank_Spanker]

i believe that you should play the gear that you can afford to play that inspires you to pick up the gear every night.

That pretty much nails it. :AOK:

[M29]

With me I like quality in anything I get. I can't always afford a quality product but I try to when ever I can. It is like tools. I don't like cheap tools but I can't always afford high quality tools. It is a spend as I go thing I guess. If I have the money and I am motivated by a certain sound like in an amph I will spend the money if I can. Right now I would like a high quality guitar but can't afford it so I doctor up the cheaper ones until I have the money for a high quality one. There is no rush it will come. I am not a very good guitar player yet but I am motivated to be good and I want a quality guitar and would buy one right now if I could. I would have bought one when earlier in my playing if I could afford it, I believe it helps make playing more enjoyable, in handling, playing and just seeing it. It is about enjoying the guitar and music and that can be other than just playing it.

M

[Jimi75]

Freedom of choice. Play whatever works best for you.

[mcgreggor57]

If you have money to burn and you can barely play, so what? Just buy that fancy guitar or amp if you want it. It may even accelerate your learning, since it's a great piece of gear.

Same way, if an incredible player uses a crappy instrument and/or amp but he/she sounds great, let him/her do his thing. Maybe it's a financial situation issue, or the crappy piece of gear just works great for this player.

What if you fall in the third category....beginner on a budget?


The problem with absolute beginners is that there's no guarantee that they'll stick with it at all. In that case having a guitar that is good enough (stays in tune, sounds good, easy to play) would do the trick. The other issue is that when you first start you have no idea what you want. Bingo. :beer:


Of course this applies accross other purchases as well. I see it in golf all the time. Hackers that have to have the best and single digit handicappers playing with yesteryears technology.

On a personal level, I'm looking for an acoustic that fits my budget...stays in tune ... has good intonation and fits my smaller hands. If these criteria are met, I'll enjoy the experience more and be more likely to stick with playing. I'll worry about other bells/whistles/quality when my skill level merits it. Making my case circle back to it being a question of money :AOK:

[Robert]

What if you fall in the third category....beginner on a budget?

Bingo. :beer:



Then the law of economics dictates you will get a cheap guitar. :)
However, cheap doesn't mean poor quality. As I've said many times, I thought the Squier '51 was great for the money, and was good enough for most players to learn on. I still get emails about the nice tones I recorded with this guitar.

[ZMAN]

I was able to experience this in two stages. Stage one 1968, I wanted to play electric guitar. I purchased a cheap Saturn guitar and it was awful. I immediately realized that I would not keep playing with this guitar. I then purchase one of the first Ibanez SG copies. it was a bolt neck and I then bought a used Gibson SG. All in the same year. I played for a couple of years and got nowhere. I kept the SG and put it in the closet.
Jump ahead 28 years and I am getting ready to retire. I need a hobby so I went looking at guitars again. The MIM Strat caught my eye and I was blown away by the quality of a resonably priced guitar. I still could hardly play a lick and took it seriously. 12 years down the road I am very happy with my progress and have collected a lot of good equipment of those years.
I guess my point is that today, a beginner can start out with some amazing low priced guitars, that look and play almost as good as their higher end counterparts. Then as time passes they can decide to keep playing or just put it aside. But hey if you can afford a quality guitar there is nothing better than playing one as we all know.
I heard Vince Gill talk about getting a brand new ES335 and Fender Twin amp for Christmas when he was 12 years old. Turned out to be not a bad player. LOL

[duhvoodooman]

I have a very simplistic view on this. It boils down to two words: personal choice. Buy and play whatever the heck you want, 'cuz it's none of my freakin' business what you do with your money and for your own reasons. End of story. :whatever:

[Rocket]

I have a very simplistic view on this. It boils down to two words: personal choice. Buy and play whatever the heck you want...
+1

[Spudman]

The problem with absolute beginners is that there's no guarantee that they'll stick with it at all. In that case having a guitar that is good enough (stays in tune, sounds good, easy to play) would do the trick. The other issue is that when you first start you have no idea what you want. Gibson or Fender scale length? Humbuckers, single coils, P90s? Some combination therein? Floyd or hard tail? It would kind of suck to spend a ton on a single humbucker hot rod because it looks cool only to find you'd rather be playing a Tele.

I was thinking about this too.
Some new players also don't know how to care for a nice instrument and amp either. You see how they sticker and carve their Squiers? What happens when they do that to a $3000 guitar? The value will be lost. So I think having some skill and experience should dictate whether or not a high end purchase is made.

If you also blow everything you have on a $3000 axe with humbuckers and then you decide you want a single coil guitar you might not have the capital to satisfy your urge. Which leads to G.A.S. Can you imagine only gassing for instruments that cost several thousand dollars each? I think a gradual buying curve is best for beginners especially since they don't know if they can stick with it.

[R_of_G]

I have a very simplistic view on this. It boils down to two words: personal choice. Buy and play whatever the heck you want, 'cuz it's none of my freakin' business what you do with your money and for your own reasons. End of story. :whatever:

I was thinking of a way to say exactly that but since you said it so perfectly, I don't need to. Well done DVM. :bravo:

[just strum]

I have a very simplistic view on this. It boils down to two words: personal choice. Buy and play whatever the heck you want, 'cuz it's none of my freakin' business what you do with your money and for your own reasons. End of story. :whatever:

And another +1: My criteria is bang for buck and playing ability versus cost - why should it be challenged? It's MY criteria, not me preaching it.

[Brian Krashpad]

I see very few if any valid reasons for there to be much of a correlation between gear expense and skill level.

If a person is still a noob and wants to buy a Les Paul and a Marshall, or a Strat and a Twin Reverb, good for them! Especially if they fork over their own dosh for it, the investment may make them a bit more serious about playing, and under any circumstances at least they won't be fighting the instrument to fret it.

Conversely, and especially in this, the Golden Age of Cheap Gear, there's no reason an experienced player should feel the slightest hesitation in picking up a one-Benjamin cheapie and rocking the feck out of it. Nowadays with CNC production and a world economy, it's actually possible to get a great playing little cheapie you can even gig with. Paul Westerberg (formerly of the Replacements) not too too long ago broke or lost his guitar in the middle of a tour, went into a Wal-Mart, plunked down a Franklin, and played the rest of the tour with a First Act, a guitar he liked so much he later assented to sticking a different pickguard on and having denominated his "signature" model. Plus, cheapies allow a guitarist to experience different types of guitar construction, pickups and other features.

I have some "nice" US-made guitars, which some could fairly say my skill level doesn't support, and on the other hand I also have a batch of cheapies that some could I say I shouldn't bother with.

Play what you like and have fun. The rest doesn't matter.

[Viking Power]

Paul Westerberg (formerly of the Replacements) not too too long ago broke or lost his guitar in the middle of a tour, went into a Wal-Mart, plunked down a Franklin, and played the rest of the tour with a First Act, a guitar he liked so much he later assented to sticking a different pickguard on and having denominated his "signature" model.


Great story!

Makes me feel like maybe a cheapie wouldn't be such a bad idea for me personally. My problem is I have BIG MONEY tastes but a million other things to spend my money on. Was thinking of holding out for at least a $1000 rig, but if Paul Westerberg can rock something like a First Act on tour, why the heck can't I get something on the lower end for rocking my den with??????:thwap:

[Geraint Jones]

Great story!

Makes me feel like maybe a cheapie wouldn't be such a bad idea for me personally. My problem is I have BIG MONEY tastes but a million other things to spend my money on. Was thinking of holding out for at least a $1000 rig, but if Paul Westerberg can rock something like a First Act on tour, why the heck can't I get something on the lower end for rocking my den with??????:thwap:


Like the great man Steve Earle [kind of said] .. all you need is ' 37 dollars and a Jap guitar '

[Brian Krashpad]

Great story!

Makes me feel like maybe a cheapie wouldn't be such a bad idea for me personally. My problem is I have BIG MONEY tastes but a million other things to spend my money on. Was thinking of holding out for at least a $1000 rig, but if Paul Westerberg can rock something like a First Act on tour, why the heck can't I get something on the lower end for rocking my den with??????:thwap:

It's totally doable, and not just for your den!

Let me show you a couple of real life pictures from a couple of my gigs as examples. Don't worry, I'll use a couple pics I'm not actually in.

Here's 3 guitars. Left to right, a Gretsch MIC I found on ebay for $235, a MIK Brownsville I picked up in a pawn for a Benjamin, and a Hamer USA Special that I found used 9 years ago for $450:

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/79/l_3bb53bfbb7da950d9b088f9c216fe949.jpg

I played the Brownsville that night.

No one booed, and nothing fell apart or exploded.

'Nother pic, left to right, Schecter MIK bought used for $250, Rickenbacker 620 (obtained in trade but worth at least $500-$600),Daisy Rock bought new on closeout for $120 shipped:

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/13/l_08a2e5fc81a5833b71b6a0607ef5feec.jpg

Hmm, which one did I play?

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/75/l_d081eceb0aa5f37cd52da9c089133951.jpg

OK, I lied about not putting myself in a pic.

But you gotta admit I look great in a wighat.

[street music]

Hey Krash-ever been told you look good in PINK!

[tjcurtin1]

OK - Here's the ultimate cheap gear/good player/good sound/proof-is-in-the pudding demo! See if you can beat this!

_GJVpTjnPk4

p4JRpY8PGvE

qWzcFlsvIJE

[Brian Krashpad]

Hey Krash-ever been told you look good in PINK!


But, I'm wearing blue jeans and a black t-shirt.

:confused:

I haven't owned any pink clothing since that BOY of London t-shirt c. 1982.

[Ch0jin]

Everyone knows pink guitars play better!

My friend has a pink paisley Strat he likes to bring out from time to time. I couldn't see myself rocking out on one, but.....

[Brian Krashpad]

Everyone knows pink guitars play better!

My friend has a pink paisley Strat he likes to bring out from time to time. I couldn't see myself rocking out on one, but.....

In my case, it was pure economics. $120 shipped for a new rebranded Schecter?

Helz yes!

[Ch0jin]

In my case, it was pure economics. $120 shipped for a new rebranded Schecter?

Helz yes!

Actually iirc the Pink Paisley was the same thing. Awesome guitar at a great price and it just happened to be pink Paisley.

[Viking Power]

tjcurtin1:


Thanks for posting those vids. Wow! Too cool to see what people can do the lo-fi way!:D

[Viking Power]

Brian Krashpad:

Awesome!


Funny how if we let ourselves get reeled in by marketing, etc., we can end up with the opinion that we MUST have the expensive guitar, car, hiking boots, whatever in order to do anything well.


Thanks for helping to bring me back home on this issue!

[TS808]

I remember as a kid when I first started taking guitar lessons, I was 9 years old and my parents got me a Harmony acoustic, which at that time (1969) probably cost them $25.

It worked for me as a beginner. As I kept playing though, the guitar started sounding a little off, so I think my parents went with a $50 Stella acoustic (big jump lol)

It's when my great uncle gave me his Kingston electric and a small amp that I really got hooked...it sounded much better than those acoustics, and I remember saving for a Big Muff pedal and putting that in front....much better.

Price and quality don't always equate (I learned that the hard way). There is a lot of good gear out there at reasonable prices that give you reasonable tone.

Buy what works for you....don't get caught up in the "cork sniffing" where you think you need a "boo-teek" amp and hand built axe to make you happy.

In my opinion, the best thing to do is go out, try different guitars, and different amps, and see what works for you. Nowadays, there are guitars and amps that fit in just about every price range that deliver decent tones.

[tot_Ou_tard]

You know that I love them cigar-box geetars Ted!

Play what you got, get what you can.

For a beginner I can imagine that it could get in the way to have a lot of gear. Too much fiddling & comparing & not enough time getting to know the soul of what you have.

[wingsdad]

...
For a beginner I can imagine that it could get in the way to have a lot of gear. Too much fiddling & comparing & not enough time getting to know the soul of what you have.

Not only true for beginners.

Gee...which guitar....strat or LP? solid or hollow? humbuckers or P-90's?through which amp with what pedal(s)? Which of the 4,999 presets in this thing should I dial in? Maybe I need to write a new patch....hmmm...that'll only take an hour or so of noodling....

Let's try this...no! Let's try that! Oh...no...maybe this! Hmmm....maybe I should tweak the mids...no...the highs...no...maybe some more pre-gain....

Ahh....screw it...what's on TV?

[just strum]

Not only true for beginners.

Gee...which guitar....strat or LP? solid or hollow? humbuckers or P-90's?through which amp with what pedal(s)? Which of the 4,999 presets in this thing should I dial in? Maybe I need to write a new patch....hmmm...that'll only take an hour or so of noodling....

Let's try this...no! Let's try that! Oh...no...maybe this! Hmmm....maybe I should tweak the mids...no...the highs...no...maybe some more pre-gain....

Ahh....screw it...what's on TV?

I didn't even realize you were in the room this morning, maybe I should turn the amp down, or switch off the OD, lower the volume on the guitar, cut back on the gain? Next time you are in the room, yell so I notice you are there!!!

[pes_laul]

i think it is more on your skill level because I see alot of guitar players at my school who can afford that 2000 dollar les paul but when it comes down to it I could dominate them on anything with strings. I mean If you gave eddie van halen a squire I bet you he could rule over me if I had a really expensive les paul

[wingsdad]

I didn't even realize you were in the room this morning, maybe I should turn the amp down, or switch off the OD, lower the volume on the guitar, cut back on the gain? Next time you are in the room, yell so I notice you are there!!!

:rotflmao:

Take those dang headphones off :confused: (as wife yanks them off head)

:poke:

[tot_Ou_tard]

I didn't even realize you were in the room this morning, maybe I should turn the amp down, or switch off the OD, lower the volume on the guitar, cut back on the gain? Next time you are in the room, yell so I notice you are there!!! Usually the smell suffices.


It is our opinon, not surprisingly, that it is the Earthlings who stink. We got another data point on our species/stank chart from your room Strum.