China Guitar Factory Tour

[Blaze]

Well , this is where some of our preferred axes are and will be made ,chinese manufactures oubviously make fake guitar but
now many well known guitar cie employ them as many others around the world cause they re hard worker for cheap salary..




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[Tone2TheBone]

FREE TIBET!

I have one Chinese guitar that is pretty cool.

[Robert]

Interesting. How much do you think the workers are getting paid per hour?

[sumitomo]

I do not know about China but in South America they might make 1.00 or more per hr and that's not in the big cities.Sumi:D Did you guys know that about 75% of the world lives on about a 1.00 per DAY!!

[marnold]

I remember reading some time ago that the average paperboy in the U.S. makes more than the average working male elsewhere in the world (that's even figuring in western Europe!). There is also a significant difference in cost of living. Quite often people will look at wages in California and immediately assume that they must be the same elsewhere in the world. That's not even true in the U.S. much less the world.

[street music]

This is why many in California are trying to make the cost electric around the US the same as they pay, because they are so poor at managing and over populated they want the rest the nation to pay for it.

As for it being a guitar made in Korea, I don't have a problem with it. I think that it could happen in the US if someone really wanted to build a quality guitar for less it can be done. I just wish that a guitar factory could locate near my small town, we have lots of maple and pine going to waste.

[sumitomo]

I have 3 guitars that were made in China and a Japanese transistor radio!I like the shape of one othe necks better that my strat put you can tell the wood is cheap.Sumi:D

[evenkeel]

Interesting. How much do you think the workers are getting paid per hour?

Not really the right question to ask. A better question is, how much do they pay the workers in relation to the average wages in the area?

I was involved in setting up a factory (not guitars) near Quangzhou. Salaries were pitiful by US standards, couple of dollars a day.. But the workers got health care, food, they had a dormitory type living area, worked 5 1/2 days a week. When the factory opened people lined up, literally for miles to get these jobs.

[just strum]

The counterfeit ones are made right around the corner from the real ones. Same workers probably work days at Gibson and nights at the counterfeit Gibson place or whatever counterfeit guitar they are making.

[cherokee747]

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/mike747_2007/Toy-Factories--41420.jpg

[Spudman]

We might think of it as slave labor but I'll bet they think of it as a job and a way to feed the family. Unless you have some idea of their cost of living compared to their income then you can't really say it's slavery. They might be living like kings in their country.

[evenkeel]

We might think of it as slave labor but I'll bet they think of it as a job and a way to feed the family. Unless you have some idea of their cost of living compared to their income then you can't really say it's slavery. They might be living like kings in their country.

Exactly!!! This is a complicated, issue. Saying a couple of dolllars a day = slave labor is an oversimplification. The workers in the factory I talked about, not only were thrilled to have the jobs, but were able to send money back home. Opening the factory was an enormous lift to the local community.

[Tone2TheBone]

Yeah I was just going to say the same thing. It's all relative.

[tjcurtin1]

Living, maybe, but like kings....? It's pretty clear that the standard of living is pretty low for most people in China (tho rising slowly over time). Kids ditch school to go to work and help the family - typical industrial revolution scenario. And typical industrial (Nike) response, "Hey, if it weren't for us they'd be starving." The real base question to try to answer honestly is, when is it a helping hand and when is it exploitation.

[syo]

In south China, where most guitars made for the western market are from, minimum wage is around $100 per month. The minimum wage is set by region so some are much lower. Alot of assembly workers make minimum. Generally the higher the living costs are in an area, the higher the minimum to offset these costs. To put things in perspective, One can eat quite well in a cheap restaurant for dollar or two and at home of course, much cheaper. As Evenkeel mentioned, salaries are sometimes supplemented by free (or cheap) housing, food etc.

In many ways, China is more pure capitalism than the USA. I do not believe that Chinese workers are "slave labor". China is still experiencing many pains of an emerging economy but through hard work and collective will, the standard of living is rising for many.

[Blaze]

After the 2e war japanese made a big hit by copying all kind of occidental stuff and became a mondial economic force as we know .
Short while ago Chinese were still living in there ancesters way and traditions so now since the Olympics they started a comeback out of the 18th century..
They will become a force,good news or not for us, and hopefully everyone out there will benefit from this economic boom, all this in respect for human rights ..

But still we ll see article like this one for a good while ...
http://www.fakenot.com/musical-instruments/18-spot-fake-gibson-guitar.html

[syo]

But still we ll see article like this one for a good while ...
http://www.fakenot.com/musical-instruments/18-spot-fake-gibson-guitar.html
Funny, most of their checklist for discovering fakes would only be discovered after you already paid for the guitar and had it delivered. But the surest way to tell it's a fake is to pick it up and play it. Frankly, if it's as good as the real thing, I guess you got your money's worth (or not :D ).

I recently saw a Chinese made "MIM" strat in a Beijing shop. If you're going to knock off a Fender, why not American?

[markb]

I recently saw a Chinese made "MIM" strat in a Beijing shop. If you're going to knock off a Fender, why not American?

Because people aren't going to look quite so hard at a Mexi and it's easier to pass off a fake. Epiphones are among the most common fakes for this reason.

I've played good Chinese guitars and bad American guitars (70s Fenders with shifty 3 bolt necks, anybody?). Country of origin is no indicator of quality in itself, less so when you consider price. As for exploitation, well that's the basis of all capital/labour relationships. Oo-er, a bit of politics :cool:

[street music]

"among the most common fakes "

This is what is bothering me most about buying a guitar on EBAY right now. I have been watching several and have had bad feeling about a few of them. It's hard to figure out who to trust on EBAY and I see so many that are SOLD AS IS-NO RETURNS.
If someone sells you a fake and you don't readily see it and have a chance to return it, then do you sell it ? I would have to just dump it a flea market . I'm having a real hard time making a decision on my next purchase because I found today that even the G&L ASAT Tribute is built across the water.

[just strum]

...the standard of living is rising for many.

The cost of living will put them on a more level playing field. I know of companies that are looking at the real cost of doing business with China and they are already starting to consider pulling back.

Our company was looking to do business in China and we have put that activity on hold.

The guitar companies didn't leave Japan and Korea due to quality, they left because the cost of business with them wasn't as attractive as it once was due the the cost of living. Look for Africa to start doing more business in the coming years.

[syo]

The guitar companies didn't leave Japan and Korea due to quality, they left because the cost of business with them wasn't as attractive as it once was due the the cost of living. Look for Africa to start doing more business in the coming years.
The first part is definitely true. As for Africa, I think that one is a long way off. Total lack of infrastructure, stability and an outside will to invest. As of now, some manufacturing has shifted from China to Vietnam. Even some Chinese companies are sourcing there.

As for me, I have been doing business in China for 5 years and am amazed how hard they have worked to keep prices steady inspite of a steep rise in prices, a drop in the dollar and the recent economic mess.

But back to guitars, I think you'll be seeing Chinese guitars for some time on both ends. The cheap not so good as well as guitars of increasing quality.

[just strum]

But back to guitars, I think you'll be seeing Chinese guitars for some time on both ends. The cheap not so good as well as guitars of increasing quality.

For high end, Gibson figured it out.

Vietnam, we are doing business over there, but will be moving it to Mexico (although stability is becoming a greater concern)

Africa, you are probably right, but the day will come.

China, IMHO, they will implode.

[syo]

China, IMHO, they will implode.
I'm curious Strum, why do you think so?

[just strum]

I'm curious Strum, why do you think so?

The Government will not be able to control the people as more and more get the taste of money. It remains unstable. Maybe not on the surface, but it's bubbling.

Just my opinion, but as I have stated here on occasion - I'm never wrong:D

[syo]

Just my opinion, but as I have stated here on occasion - I'm never wrong:D
I was going to challenge your statement but as you are never wrong, it would be foolish of me to even try. ;) :D

[wingsdad]

...
I'm having a real hard time making a decision on my next purchase because I found today that even the G&L ASAT Tribute is built across the water.
Yes, in a country that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread: Indonesia.

From what I understand of the G&L Tribute series, the 'budget import' versions of the Fullerton, CA G&L's, they were originally a Japanese product into the 90's(?), then G&L discontinued the series because they became too costly, and oddly, quality dropped. They re-introduced the Tribute series in 2003, this time using one of the best Korean factories, Cort, part of the Hoshino Gakki enterprise we know as Ibanez, as Cort made Ibanez's 'budget' models, the high-end Ibz's made in Japan as they still are. And just as Samick, for years making Epiphones and Washburns, found their Korean factory had become too costly to operate (and quality dropping...why that common trait? Can you say 'General Motors'?) so did Cort. So Samick and Cort moved, not to China, but to: Indonesia.

So now you have G&L's Tributes made by Cort Indonesia, and some Epi's and Washburns/Oscar Schmidts made by Samick Indonesia.

The thing about the Tributes, though, is that even though built in Indonesia and using asian hardware (Gotoh) and some Asian electronic components, all to contracted specs (pots replicating CTS) but like other Asian guitars, metric, the pickups are the same Fullerton-made pickups that go in the USA G&L's, with the final assembly & setup steps in Fullerton.

As for MIM Fenders? The farming out of production to Ensenada from Corona, CA (after a temporary shift to Japan waiting for Corona to be built) was, just like Japan shifting to Korea to China & Indonesia, due to the rising cost of living here and of doing business in California. But the funny thing about the Fender/Corona factory is it's virtually MIM anyway, with the supply of cheap minimum-wage labor here in SoCal flooded with illegal and legal/green carded Mexican immigrants.

[Blaze]

Enough talking about the fake one let s have a tour of the real Gibson factory..

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Here s one for you Strum..

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