Ibanez S470FM or Epiphone Les Paul Standard?

[Fardeen]

Okay guys, I'm in a real dilemma right now... I own an used Ibanez S470FM, and now I have the choice of selling it and buying an almost pristine Epiphone Les Paul Standard. I just can't decide what to do! I mean, both these guitars are pretty high quality instruments, and for me it's a pretty tough choice. Let me provide you with some background information about the Ibanez.

First of all, it's not one of the newer models with the S inlays or ZR trem, its a guitar made in 1998, in the Cort Plant..... in Korea, not Japan :(. The specs are: satin black finish on a mahogany body, maple Wizard II neck, rosewood fingerboard, 22 jumbo frets, pearl dots, Ibanez h/s/h (Powersound/AS1/AH2) pickups and the Lo TRS II Floyd Rose licenced tremolo. Its in so-so condition - the body's been refinished so looks pretty good, but the hardware is kinda rusty and disappointing.

The Les Paul on the other hand, is an Epiphone Standard with the following specs:

* Mahogany body
* Alnico Classic humbuckers
* Chrome hardware
* Grover tuners
* 24-3/4" scale
* 1.68" nut width
* Set mahogany neck
* Slim-taper neck profile
* Rosewood fretboard with trapezoid inlays
* Body/neck binding
* LockTone Tune-O-Matic bridge/stopbar tailpiece

All the extra background info I know about is that it's been used for around 8-10 months and is made in USA. Oh yeah, its in perfect condition.

Now a bit about my musical taste... I just love metal music and that's mostly what I play - any sort of metal, be it 80's thrash, metalcore, death metal, Iron Maiden, you get the picture. And sometimes punk and alternative rock as well. Now, I know most of you guys will say that the Ibanez is better suited for my musical preference, but I have a sexy set of EMG 81/85s fresh off the shelves and waiting to be installed into either one of these two guitars, so I guess at the end of the day both guitars will have the same level of value when it comes to the type of music I play. Also, I'm the vocalist of my band and so play mostly riffs with the occasional solo here or there, so I don't really need a tremolo bar. Soooo... what do you guys think? Which one of these two guitars do I go for?? Please post your opinions on the issue. :)

[marnold]

Sounds like you really want the Epiphone. Did you get a chance to play it? Others can chime in here but AFAIK, no Epiphones are made in the USA.

[Spudman]

I'd keep the 470. It's lighter and more versatile and more comfortable to hold.

I have a Jewel Blue S470 and it will never leave the corral for the reasons listed above and it's the only guitar I have that in the last 20 years a member of the audience came up to me and said that the guitar sounded amazing. Best sounding guitar in any bar band she'd ever seen.

[oldguy]

Where was the Epiphone made?
How about taking a couple minutes to go to TheFretPlayers section, introduce yourself, and give a bit of info, such as your age, where you live, that type thing.

[sunvalleylaw]

I was going to say keep the 470. I have seen and played Spud's and it seems so much more versatile than the Epi. And it just feels so good in one's hands. Just my 0.02.

[Fardeen]

Well, I'll answer all of your questions in one post. Firstly, yes, I really do want that Les Paul - it just looks so gorgeous and elegant! And yeah, I could easily play it and check it out. And yes, I'm pretty sure it was written on the front or back of the headstock that this guitar was made in the USA. As for some info about me, I'm a 16 year old vocalist (yes, I suck big time as most guys my age do :D)/riffer of an upcoming underground metal band in Chittagong, Bangladesh. This being a third-world country, guitars like these two are really hard to come by. The Ibanez retails for $550 brand new, while all the Epi Les Pauls I've seen here are either made in China or Mexico, with prices being around $650. And oh yeah, bands here rarely have to perform for more than 2/3 hours straight AT THE MAX, so the weight shouldn't really be an issue. The 470 has got one of the best necks I've ever played - I'll give you that, and the tremolo IS an advantage. Hmmm... wait up, I'm posting a pic of the Les Paul for you guys:

http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/24952

P.S: Here's a pic of my Ibanez as well:

http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/24953

[Fardeen]

Whoa!! Just found out something really shocking... it appears illegal copies of Gibson and Epi guitars are being made, and here's one way to tell:


Now the same thing has been happening with Epiphone les pauls,

Most common ones are the Standards, Customs, and the Zakk Wylde models.

the dead giveaway is the back of the headstock, almost all of the epiphones are made in Korea or Japan, a lot of the fakes are stamped Made in the USA, which tells you it is a fake.

Lol... looks like I'll be sticking to the S470 then, unless someone has a better suggestion within $500 (new or used) ;)

[Rocket]

Nobody makes counterfeit Epiphones!

[markb]

Sounds like you really want the Epiphone. Did you get a chance to play it? Others can chime in here but AFAIK, no Epiphones are made in the USA.

That's only true since the late 70's when Gibson used the Epiphone brand for Japanese manufacture. This being a lester, it will be far eastern of one variety or another. Recently the John Lennon Revolution, John Lee Hooker model and the new Wilshire reissue are US made.

[Spudman]

If you have $500 burning a hole in your pocket check out the Michael Kelly Patriot series.

[Ch0jin]

If you have $500 burning a hole in your pocket check out the Michael Kelly Patriot series.


Actually FIRST take the burning cash out of your pocket. You could ruin a great pair of pants that way. Then do whatever Spud says :)

Seriously though. As you said, I'd bet the Epi is a fake so scratch that as an option anyway, but even if it wasn't, I dunno man, I see a load of metal bands and there are WAY more Ibanez guitars in the hands of metal shredders than Epi Les Paul's so I'd either keep the Ibanez, or look for a better Ibanez or something else designed for metal like a Jackson or something. From my limited experience, the heavy stuff just seems to flow effortlessly from Jacksons in particular whereas it'd be a little bit more of a struggle with the Epi.

Even if you disregard all that, you really should stick to the golden rule of guitar buying and make sure you actually play the one you want to buy first.

Nobody can tell you if you and an instrument will just click. You have to experience it for yourself.

[just strum]

Posted this in the wrong thread (must be Pepsi bubbles going to my head)

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyl...erfeitGibsons/

[oldguy]

Strum, I can't get that link to work "error code 404".
What should I be looking for? Or is the link down/invalid/outdated?


EDIT........ I did a search and came up with this. I appears to be the same link, but it's working (for me, at least).

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/CounterfeitGibsons/

[oldguy]

Nobody makes counterfeit Epiphones!

I was most inclined to agree with you.....and was surprised, to say the least, after doing some digging into the link Strum provided. Not a good counterfeit, but a knock-off fake nonetheless.


http://www.dhgate.com/Free-Shipping-2009-New-Arrived-Eipihone-Zakk/p_ff8080811fb77356011fb8607fb5641b.html

[wingsdad]

...the dead giveaway is the back of the headstock, almost all of the epiphones are made in Korea or Japan, a lot of the fakes are stamped Made in the USA, which tells you it is a fake.
That source is pretty much out-dated. Most Epi LP's today are now made in China, either by the Gibson China Epiphone Qiang Dao factory, with some farmed out to other Chinese OEM factories, at least thru 2007. Any recent Japanese Epi's are Elitist models, and they're being phased out. Koreans are pretty scarce after 2004-2005 as those makers moved plants to China or Indonesia.

As for where or who made the Epi, if the sticker saying 'Made in Korea' or 'Made in China' has been peeled off the back of the headstock, as it most often is, or possibly forged or taken off another guitar, the Serial Number can identify its origin. Here's a farily good but not 100% accurate (i.e., Japanese Epi's are not supported) source to figure that aspect out:
http://www.guitardaterproject.org/epiphone.aspx
Of course, Gibson's grown a bit surreptitious today and adopted the practice in 2008 of leaving the Factory Code prefix off most serial numbers, making it difficult, at best, to determine where an Epi was made if that country of origin sticker is gone.

Another possible telltale sign of counterfeit is the rendition of the Epiphone logo or Epsilon (horseshoe E), but even legit Epi's logos may vary if they were farmed out.

... looks like I'll be sticking to the S470 then, unless someone has a better suggestion within $500 (new or used) ;)
The S470 Korean Cort Ibanez is a good one. Cort's making their own branded models and Ibanez in Indonesia now, like Samick is making their own Greg Bennett Avions and some Epi's and Washburns.

You can find used Epi LP Standards from Korea for around $400USD or China, even Gibson China, in good-to-excellent condition for $300 -$350 or so USD.