Epiphone Valve SENIOR.

[TS808]

It's a slow day at work so I've been checking out a few things:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ValveSrHD/

This also looks pretty sweet, and at $299 it's a steal. These were supposed to have been released already, but there has been some delay. I know alot of folks use the Valve Jr. on here and really like it. This will also be available in a combo version.

I saw a thread on here before about this amp, but this is the first time I've seen it at any retailer (even though they aren't in stock yet).

[tunghaichuan]

Epi announced that amp back in the late fall, IIRC. Looks pretty cool. 18W, 6V6 tubes, master, standy and reverb. All for $300. Looks good, too. :AOK:

tung


It's a slow day at work so I've been checking out a few things:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ValveSrHD/

This also looks pretty sweet, and at $299 it's a steal. These were supposed to have been released already, but there has been some delay. I know alot of folks use the Valve Jr. on here and really like it. This will also be available in a combo version.

I saw a thread on here before about this amp, but this is the first time I've seen it at any retailer (even though they aren't in stock yet).

[schenkadere]

It's a slow day at work so I've been checking out a few things:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ValveSrHD/

This also looks pretty sweet, and at $299 it's a steal. These were supposed to have been released already, but there has been some delay. I know alot of folks use the Valve Jr. on here and really like it. This will also be available in a combo version.

I saw a thread on here before about this amp, but this is the first time I've seen it at any retailer (even though they aren't in stock yet).

I think the Valve Jr. is more of a novelty than a serious amp and way over-rated. Sure you can mod it and all of that...and get some decent tone, but I've tried some of Epiphone's other tube offerings and they sound like crap and built like toys...you get what you pay for...well, except in the world of "boutique"..."boutique"=overpriced for the most part.

Maybe this one will be different, but for $299....I highly doubt it.

[TS808]

I think the Valve Jr. is more of a novelty than a serious amp and way over-rated. Sure you can mod it and all of that...and get some decent tone, but I've tried some of Epiphone's other tube offerings and they sound like crap and built like toys...you get what you pay for...well, except in the world of "boutique"..."boutique"=overpriced for the most part.

Maybe this one will be different, but for $299....I highly doubt it.

The Epiphone Blues Custom from what I have seen gets some pretty good reviews. Most people recommend a good retube of the amp. The So Cal head I've seem mixed reviews, especially regarding the clean channel being bad.

Most of the Epi's that are out are geared more towards practice/bedroom playing, but for some reason, they are selling very well, along with alot of other low cost/low wattage offerings from Blackheart and Blackstar.

[Rocket]

Sweetwater, (and Musician's Friend) is notorious for putting up products ahead of their release and taking pre-orders for them and then constantly pushing the date back.

[schenkadere]

The Epiphone Blues Custom from what I have seen gets some pretty good reviews. Most people recommend a good retube of the amp. The So Cal head I've seem mixed reviews, especially regarding the clean channel being bad.

Most of the Epi's that are out are geared more towards practice/bedroom playing, but for some reason, they are selling very well, along with alot of other low cost/low wattage offerings from Blackheart and Blackstar.

That Blues Custom is one in particular I have played...OMG...what a horrible, hissy, buzzy piece of junk. I wouldn't pay the Valve Jr. price for that. Built like a toy and sounds like a toy.

[WackyT]

Looks like it's still vaporware.

[tunghaichuan]

That Blues Custom is one in particular I have played...OMG...what a horrible, hissy, buzzy piece of junk. I wouldn't pay the Valve Jr. price for that. Built like a toy and sounds like a toy.

The Valve Jr. was a much better deal when it sold for $99. At $149, it is not such a good deal.

My modded VJ head is one of my main amps right now. But it has a NOS 5751 preamp tube, a JJ power tube, the PCB has been completely rebuilt with better parts and better values (more filtering, etc.) and a Hammond OT. The chassis and the power transformer are decent, the head cab is only okay, but not bad.

For someone that doesn't want to do extensive modding, the Blackheart series is a much better bet. They really don't need any mods right out of the box. They don't even need a tube change as the amp seems to be voiced for the Chinese tubes that come stock with the amp.

As far as the Valve Senior goes, I'd have to see one and pull it apart, but I would bet that the BH Handsome Devil is a much better buy at $300.

tung

[Rocket]

I would bet that the BH Handsome Devil is a much better buy at $300.
I may have to buy that Killer Ant & it's micro-cab just for the "cuteness factor".

[just strum]

Epi announced that amp back in the late fall, IIRC. Looks pretty cool. 18W, 6V6 tubes, master, standy and reverb. All for $300. Looks good, too. :AOK:

tung

Boy, it seems even longer than that since Epi announced it, but you are probably right. I remember contacting Gibson and asking them what was the "real" date and they were not rock solid with there answer. If I recall it was a case of internal issues.

Rocket is right about the pre-ordering, but much of the blame has to go to the manufacturer.

[just strum]

I think the Valve Jr. is more of a novelty than a serious amp and way over-rated. Sure you can mod it and all of that...and get some decent tone, but I've tried some of Epiphone's other tube offerings and they sound like crap and built like toys...you get what you pay for...well, except in the world of "boutique"..."boutique"=overpriced for the most part.

Maybe this one will be different, but for $299....I highly doubt it.

So what in the price range of the Valve Jr and the others you mentioned do you feel is a better amp?

[tot_Ou_tard]

But it has a NOS 5751 preamp tube,

tung
Is the 5751 for more headroom or for tone reasons?

[schenkadere]

So what in the price range of the Valve Jr and the others you mentioned do you feel is a better amp?

A used Carvin X amp if you need absolutely need tubes...or any of the Tech 21 Trademarks if you're more interested in tone rather than simply saying you have a tube amp.

There's plenty more...I'd rather have a Peavey Bandit Transtube than a Valve Jr....more power and more versatile.

If it's all about modding then the Valve Jr is fine...but you;re going to atleast change the tubes and speaker...there's at the very least another 80-100 bucks.

BTW...the Blues Custom is not cheap...it's over $600 new.

[tunghaichuan]

Is the 5751 for more headroom or for tone reasons?

It's for headroom. The 5751 has similar characteristics but has a theoretical gain of 70 vs. 100 for a 12AX7.

Despite what many Internet sites say, a 12AX7, 12AT7 and 12AU7 are really nothing alike, although they share the same pinout and look similar. They all have different characteristics so parts values in the circuit need to be adjusted when swapping between them. Or not, some have found that they work just fine in some circuits.

The 12AY7 and 5751 share the same characteristics as a 12AX7, but are lower gain versions.

tung

[tunghaichuan]

There's plenty more...I'd rather have a Peavey Bandit Transtube than a Valve Jr....more power and more versatile.


To each his or her own. I'm primarily a bedroom/basement player, so I don't need much more than 5W. The VJ fits the bill perfectly for me. Mine is modded to provide a clean amp for pedals, and I get all the versatality from them. In fact, if I don't like my OD tone, I just swap it out for another.



If it's all about modding then the Valve Jr is fine...but you;re going to atleast change the tubes and speaker...there's at the very least another 80-100 bucks.


Nah, I already had most of the parts. I've been building and modifying amps for over 10 years now. I got the head used from GC for $99. I got the NOS 5751 for $1 at a hamfest. The JJ power tube was $10. Figure $10 in resistors, caps and pots. I picked up the 3 or 4 of the Hammond OTs way before the price hike for $25 each + shipping, so figure $30. I already had two Celestion loaded cabs, so I didn't need to buy a speaker. Grand total: $150 + some "sweat equity."

tung

[TS808]

To each his or her own. I'm primarily a bedroom/basement player, so I don't need much more than 5W. The VJ fits the bill perfectly for me. Mine is modded to provide a clean amp for pedals, and I get all the versatality from them. In fact, if I don't like my OD tone, I just swap it out for another.


I agree here...I'm a basement player too, and the 5w amps, whether they are the Epi's or Blackhearts are good bang for the buck with some nice tones.

I've seen guys raving on other forums about the Valve Jr. and Blackheart amps. Even stock they are pretty good.

[oldguy]

I like my SoCal half stack. 5 bills on sale. I actually like the clean side better than the crunch side. Nice, compressed tone. The 4x12 cab with the Lady Luck speakers is a great box for the buck. It was basically free, buy the head, the cab came with it, pkg. deal. Duff has one and likes it as well. I think Bloozcat was pretty happy with his Blues Custom after swapping out the stock tubes. Blooz and I each have a Ceriatone Overtone now, and you can't compare apples to oranges, but for the money the Epi's provide pretty good bang for the buck in some instances. On the other hand, I played more than one Valve Standard and hated them. Never heard such a muffled, muddied tone from an amph. I modded my Valve Junior and it turned out a good little amph, loud as he!! If I had to do it over I'd probably go with the Blackheart, but they weren't on the market then. I'd have to see the inside of the Valve Senior first, but I'm guessing for the extra bucks the Egnater Rebel 20 would be a better deal all around. It all depends on what your ear likes. There are very few solid state amphs I like, despite their versatility. I hear the DSP on some, the lack of touch response on some, the way notes die instead of bloom on some, or all of the above. They may be able to model any amph on the planet, but they don't have the magic. Plank's new rig may be the exception, he speaks highly of it, but he loves his Germino also.
I see all this as a good thing......... if everyone loved Bassman/JTM45 circuits, the SS amphs would never have evolved, and vice versa.
If everyone loved Fender Blackface amphs, Jim Marshall's edgier take on rock history might never have happened.
And if Epi's Valve Sr. is the next big breakthrough in amplification, I'll be mildly surprised. Most of tone is technique, and technique is in the fingers........not 100%, but mostly. Search out the old thread of Satch (I think Spuds posted it) playing a cheap amp and axe..........he still sounds like Satch. Look at Bonamassa's pedal rig......no big boutique secret weapons hiding there.......it's how he plays, combined with some really good amphs.
Frank Marino plays solid state amphs.......he says he quit tube rigs because they were too unreliable on the road.....yet he still sounds great.
Long story short (I know....too late!!!)........ any amph you like is the right one for you, if you can afford it and it inspires you.......including the new Valve Senior!!:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[TS808]

Long story short (I know....too late!!!)........ any amph you like is the right one for you, if you can afford it and it inspires you.......including the new Valve Senior!!

Exactly, and I couldn't have said it better. There's way too much "cork-sniffing" among too many musicians, and there are so many good amps out there in all price ranges these days.

Whether it's a Chevy or a Mercedes, as long as it takes you to where you go, that's what matters.

[Rocket]

Whether it's a Chevy or a Mercedes, as long as it takes you to where you go, that's what matters.
That's so wrong in so many ways!
If what you say is true, there would only be one type of guitar, one type of amp, and one kind of car... we would all look very spiffy dressed alike in our universal uniforms.
In my opinion, choices are good things. I don't necessarily want what you, (or anyone else,) might want.

[oldguy]

That's so wrong in so many ways!
If what you say is true, there would only be one type of guitar, one type of amp, and one kind of car... we would all look very spiffy dressed alike in our universal uniforms.
In my opinion, choices are good things. I don't necessarily want what you, (or anyone else,) might want.

I must've gleaned a different conclusion. I interpreted it to mean we are headed to different destinations, we are free to choose the vehicle that suits us, not someone else, and whatever make, model, color, size, or shape we choose is our business, and only ours. On an individual basis, of course, not chosen for us by the herd mentality.

[Rocket]

I must've gleaned a different conclusion. I interpreted it to mean we are headed to different destinations, we are free to choose the vehicle that suits us, not someone else, and whatever make, model, color, size, or shape we choose is our business, and only ours. On an individual basis, of course, not chosen for us by the herd mentality.
I may have misread or misinterpreted but I'll certainly agree with ALL of that!

[just strum]

I must've gleaned a different conclusion. I interpreted it to mean we are headed to different destinations, we are free to choose the vehicle that suits us, not someone else, and whatever make, model, color, size, or shape we choose is our business, and only ours. On an individual basis, of course, not chosen for us by the herd mentality.

I was ready to point out the same. The choice of a Chevy or Mercedes is there, some feel they will get where they need to go with the Chevy.

Ah, now I see Rocket agrees with you, I'll post anyways.

[TS808]

That's so wrong in so many ways!
If what you say is true, there would only be one type of guitar, one type of amp, and one kind of car... we would all look very spiffy dressed alike in our universal uniforms.
In my opinion, choices are good things. I don't necessarily want what you, (or anyone else,) might want.

I have no idea how you concluded that from my post. I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to REMOTELY think of how you came up with that :confused:

My point was that if it's a low priced amp (Chevy) or a boutique (Mercedes) it doesn't matter what a person has, as long as they are satisfied with it and it takes them where they want to go with their music.

There are all price ranges of amps, just like there are cars and they all come in different shapes, sizes, and power....we have quite a few options, and quality doesn't always equate with the price.

My comment was directed mainly at the "cork sniffer" attitude that I see among alot of guitarists, especially on other forums. Some won't even TRY something like a Blackheart for example, just because it's made by Crate....in the meantime, it's a good amp.

[Rocket]

I already fessed-up that I misread the post and agreed with everything said... I can remove the post or write you a formal apology letter if need be... won't say much more than that though.
At least give me credit for admitting my own error, (which I tend to do when I'm in error.)

[just strum]

I already fessed-up that I misread the post and agreed with everything said... I can remove the post or write you a formal apology letter if need be... won't say much more than that though.

I would opt for the letter, sort of like a trophy.


Pile on!!!!!!

[Rocket]

I would opt for the letter, sort of like a trophy.


Pile on!!!!!!
I've got your letter... (only takes one finger to sign in ASL!)

[just strum]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/ZakkPS.jpg

or

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/ZakkPSwtext.jpg

[oldguy]

Good one. I like both.
Looks like Zakk's going to play a little.

[schenkadere]

It's all about what sounds good to you...it's completely subjective. I was merely stating my opinion about the Epiphone line and my experience with it. If you guys dig it, more power to you. Rock on.

[tunghaichuan]

It's all about what sounds good to you...it's completely subjective. I was merely stating my opinion about the Epiphone line and my experience with it. If you guys dig it, more power to you. Rock on.

+1,000,000

If it sounds good to you it is, if it doesn't sound good you, it isn't good.

tung

[just strum]

It's all about what sounds good to you...it's completely subjective. I was merely stating my opinion about the Epiphone line and my experience with it. If you guys dig it, more power to you. Rock on.

I agree. My question was to see what you do like in the way of amps in that price range.

[schenkadere]

I agree. My question was to see what you do like in the way of amps in that price range.

I responded to that. The Roland cube series, the Tech 21 Trademark series or if you must have tubes, maybe find a used Carvin X series or Peavey Bravo for a good price on eBay.

[oldguy]

I responded to that. The Roland cube series, the Tech 21 Trademark series or if you must have tubes, maybe find a used Carvin X series or Peavey Bravo for a good price on eBay.

What about the Crate V5 you modded? How would you say it compares to a modded Valve Jr.? Is the Crate's overall build quality (pcb, wiring, etc.) better/worse/comparable?
I ask because as of this morning there's 170 posts in the Crate V5 mods thread. Like the V. Jr., I think a lot of folks are trying to take an inexpensive amph and make it better, and more power to them. Maybe not cost effective, but a great learning experience.

[schenkadere]

What about the Crate V5 you modded? How would you say it compares to a modded Valve Jr.? Is the Crate's overall build quality (pcb, wiring, etc.) better/worse/comparable?
I ask because as of this morning there's 170 posts in the Crate V5 mods thread. Like the V. Jr., I think a lot of folks are trying to take an inexpensive amph and make it better, and more power to them. Maybe not cost effective, but a great learning experience.

I love mine for cleans and for OD, with the addition of an EQ it's been great. I only bought it because it was 79.99 new at GC and it had a 10" speaker...they had one left and it was an impulse buy The mods cost me about 80 bucks, so I think for what I have, it is a great value.

Some guys are practically rebuilding the amp, but that seems more of a hobby and challenge. I wouldn't be bothered doing more than I've done. I don't have the knowledge or time to go further and I really like the tone I'm getting. I don't think it's a better amp, just different...although pretty sucky stock.

[oldguy]

Thanks! One more question if you don't mind.......... how loud is the Crate after the mods you did? I ask because the Valve Jr. I modded was loud stock, but after the mods, through my 2x12 Celestion loaded Avatar cab, or my 4x12 Epi cab w/ Lady Luck speakers, it's loud for 5 watts. If it's cranked, and you don't want clean, but prefer overdriven tone, it would keep up with a drummer easily. It could be used in a club setting w/ no problem. It's quite a bit louder than the Fender 600's 5 watts, I think because no signal's getting dumped to ground now. I bought the amp for $99, spent around $50 to mod it, and it's far better than it was stock . I probably wouldn't redo another one since the price hike, and the offerings by other companies now, but it was fun at the time.

[just strum]

For the record, I love my Valve Jr. I didn't do the mod, it was done by our own Duhvoodooman

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/Guitars/Picture310.jpg

[oldguy]

It's a different amph than stock, though, Strum. Not saying you wouldn't have liked the stock version, but Vood improved it a bunch. If the Valve Senior needs mods (if and when it's available), it might not be worth the trouble considering some of the other offerings out there. The Egnater Rebel is one that comes to mind. More money, yes, but it sounds great right out of the box, or so the reviews say.

[just strum]

What I've heard most often is that version 3 is the only one that people would consider not modifying. The way I understand it, Epiphone incorporated some of the mods and 3 has enough that you might not want to mod it.

Not being familiar with the mod thing, I can only quote what I've read.

[oldguy]

You're right. I bought the version 2 head. Transformer swap was the biggie, about $35 to buy it. The traces on board were also pretty crappy. The rest of the parts didn't amount to squat, just the time to solder them in. I didn't count the time I spent as anything more than learning experience. I enjoyed it.
There again, if the Senior is done right the first time, it might be a keeper.

[rock_mumbles]

What about the Crate V5 you modded? How would you say it compares to a modded Valve Jr.? Is the Crate's overall build quality (pcb, wiring, etc.) better/worse/comparable?
I ask because as of this morning there's 170 posts in the Crate V5 mods thread. Like the V. Jr., I think a lot of folks are trying to take an inexpensive amp and make it better, and more power to them. Maybe not cost effective, but a great learning experience.

I'll chime in on this one...

IMO a modded V5 is probably a better bedroom amp as it's not quite as loud and has a cabinet designed for a 10" speaker, a miked up modded Valve Junior head with a decent cabinet is a usable moderate volume stage amp because they're pretty loud. At this point the Valve Juniors I have are more powerful, and they have cost me just over twice as much as my V5, but I have about twice as much time into modding the V5.

I've had 2 Valve Junior Heads for about a year, I bought a v2 used and a new "Scratch-n-Dent" v3. I bought them: (a) to have a small tube amp for our small blues gigs, and (b) to learn how tube amps work. BTW, I'm not really a guitar player, I'm a bass player and an equipment junkie, so I've used the Valve Juniors as a learning platform (tube amp education). I now know enough about tube amp circuits that I can help a friend with amps at his music store. Just recently I bought the V5 because I thought it would be nice to have a small combo amp for testing pedals and guitars etc., and I thought that I could make it sound just like one of my Valve Juniors, after all it has the same tubes...

Both of my Valve Juniors have Hammond 125ESE OT's and have gone through various stages of modification, I just reworked my v2 for the third time it's loud with a darker sound and good clean headroom, the v3 is modded to be clean but brighter and isn't quite as loud. My modded V5 is a pretty good amp, but it doesn't seem to be quite as powerful as a Valve Junior and so far it just doesn't sound as good.

IMO, the utter simplicity of the Valve Juniors circuit puts it a notch above the Crate, I don't understand the Crate designs, there is just too much junk in the signal path (circuit) in all of the newer V series amps. My brother and I have also modded Crate V18's.

OK, the cost factor, I got the V5 shipped to my door for $76 new in the box, the Valve Juniors were $115 each, I spent about $40 each for the Hammond transformers, and have bought new tubes and other small parts in the year I've had them. It's been a lot easier to get the Valve Junior to sound good, a lot of people have played with them, and a lot of mods are published. On sewatt.com there is still a lot of Valve Junior activity. As far as the V5, I didn't like the stock sound much even with a decent speaker, and I decided to go a different route than the mod I did on a friends amp (rocketfire mod with one cap change, actually his amp actually sounds pretty good). I spent most of my spring break fiddling with the V5 and I'm still not satisfied. In about an hour I just rebuilt my v2 Valve Junior into a really good sounding amp.

BTW, we always use at least one of the Valve Juniors in the blues band I play in. At the end of last summer we were using two Valve Juniors on stage to get a really interesting "composite" sound from the mix of a cleaner amp and a dirtier amp. Our guitar player can never hear himself good enough so lately he's been running the clean/bright Valve Junior into an Eminence alnico 10" speaker in an open back wedge cabinet as a guitar monitor, he can finally hear himself. Since I've rebuilt the v2 head, we'll probably be using it as the stage guitar amp miked up, and the v2 head will also become his new studio amp.

[Bloozcat]

That Blues Custom is one in particular I have played...OMG...what a horrible, hissy, buzzy piece of junk. I wouldn't pay the Valve Jr. price for that. Built like a toy and sounds like a toy.

Really....

I have one of the first Blues Custom 30's made. It's never been hissy or buzzy. In fact, the only rap on the BC 30 that's consistently mentioned is that it's too bright. Re-tubing and allowing the speakers a good 15 hours to break in took care of much of that. The minor tone stack mods I did solved the rest.

The EQ controls on the stock BC 30 are a real departure from other amps. The amp wasn't designed to sound good with a flat EQ response. You have to learn how to really work the controls to get good tones, and that takes patience. The tone mods I did really opened the tone up even more and the controls respond a little more as they do on most other amps now.

The electronics work is neat and clean. Everything inside is solidly built, including the cabinet. The speakers are well suited to the amps tone. While they could have used better (and more expensive) pots, jacks, and components in the amp, what's used is certainly not junk. At 65 lbs. there's a lot of iron in this amp as well, with the OT and PT more than adequate for the job.

The BC 30 is probably the most versatile 2X12 combo I've ever played in the under $700.00 range (I paid $500.00 new/shipped for mine). Not only does this amp come with true tube driven reverb (V3 & V5), it comes with a 5AR4tube rectifier as well. You just don't find that with other amps in this price range. It covers a LOT of tonal area, especially with the addition of the 15 watt class A mode.

I've spent a lot of time on many sites with other BC 30 owners comparing notes and sharing mods. I've even spoken on the phone with the amps designer, Pyotr Belov, about the amps circuit. IMHO, Belov and Epiphone have created a great amp for the money in the BC 30. The mods I've done have only validated the efficacy of the original design by enhancing what was already there.

[oldguy]

My SoCal sounds good too. Maybe one man's "horrible, hissy, buzzy" is another's "throaty, bluesy, responsive" amph............. or the build quality varies greatly. ;)
I've read reviews dissing Dumbles and the big "D" clones lately too.
That reminds me......... how're you liking the Overtone, Bloozcat?:D