SS vs Tube side by side -- ouch

[birv2]

This happened to me yesterday. I have 2 amps - a Pro Jr and a Peavey Envoy. I have put a fair bit of bux into the PJ, with repairs (Hot Rod series famous for sub-standard build quality), new tubes (JJ's), and new speaker (Ragin Cajun). I really like the way it sounds, and I take it to the jam every week.

A couple days ago, I decided to swap out the stock Blue Marvel speaker in my Envoy and for my stock Pro Jr speaker (which I have for sale in another forum here). Partly because I've never actually done that myself and partly because I was just curious.

Then I sat down and played through both. My chain was Squier -> TS9DX -> Fish &Chips EQ -> Danecho. I'd play a couple bars, then switch the cable to the other amp, play the same couple of bars. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I could hardly tell the difference between the amps. There was a bit more "warmth" in the PJ, but not a lot. Now maybe it was the effects chain, maybe I just don't have good ears, or something else. I love my PJ, but this floored me.

I will try it without effects and of course, take the Peavey to the jam and see what happens in a band situation. But this seems to go against every law of nature and physics, doesn't it???
:whatever:

[guitartango]

What about the nice warmth of the BJ, i always leave the amp on for 30mins so that the tubes sound sweet. That's the difference isn't it, the fbj will sound sweeter.

[markb]

What about the nice warmth of the BJ, i always leave the amp on for 30mins so that the tubes sound sweet. That's the difference isn't it, the fbj will sound sweeter.

Why? Because valve amps have some magic ingredient to make them sound better?

The PJ is a good but not great valve amp, the Peavey Transtubes are very good sounding SS amps. At home levels I would be surprised if there was much difference. Live, the PJ might have a bit more punch and presence but then that amp is very middly (the secret to pushing your tone out front). There aren't many blind tests out there to truly compare tone.

[birv2]

Tried the comparison after the PJ was warmed up for 30 minutes. Not much difference still.

I'll have to try it in a band setting.

So we're comparing a good tube amp to a great SS amp? Not so sure about that...

[SuperSwede]

Why? Because valve amps have some magic ingredient to make them sound better?

The PJ is a good but not great valve amp, the Peavey Transtubes are very good sounding SS amps. At home levels I would be surprised if there was much difference. Live, the PJ might have a bit more punch and presence but then that amp is very middly (the secret to pushing your tone out front). There aren't many blind tests out there to truly compare tone.

+1

So true Mark..

[Plank_Spanker]

I can only relate my own experiences. I have yet to play a SS amp that comes even close to the dynamic response and punch of a tube amp. To my ears, a SS amp's sound is very damped and regulated, regardless of input. A tube amp's output is based on the input - your attack and touch drive the sound.

Live, most SS amps seem to get buried in the mix unless the amp has a good tone stack and is carefully EQ'ed. You don't have to work hard at all to get a tube amp cutting the mix.

I'm NOT saying SS amps are inferior to tube amps - the JC120 can squelch that argument quickly, but their response and punch are worlds apart.

[birv2]

I actually agree with you, Plank. However, and maybe it's because my ears aren't so advanced, these two amps are really close. There's something about those Transtubes that does a very good job of simulating tube tone, even responding to picking dynamics, etc.

I know three local pro and semipro guys who all say the same thing. One guy, the pro, gigged with the Peavey Bandit for years.

I still love my PJ, but I wouldn't have a hard time replacing it in a pinch with the Envoy if I had to.

Bob

[Plank_Spanker]

birv,

I played with a guy that used a Transtube, and I think his amp sounded great. I guess the point I was trying to make was response. Once I got back into tube amps with my Germino, I basically had to relearn how to play the amp - something you don't need to do with SS amps.

The bottom line is if it works for you, it's good.

[birv2]

birv,

I played with a guy that used a Transtube, and I think his amp sounded great. I guess the point I was trying to make was response. Once I got back into tube amps with my Germino, I basically had to relearn how to play the amp - something you don't need to do with SS amps.

The bottom line is if it works for you, it's good.

Yup.

The other thing that one of the Transtube guys liked was that he could throw his amp on the back of his motorcycle on the way to the jam with a bungee cord. I'd be terrified to do that with my tube amp!

I guess it's all about getting the best you can out of what you've got!

Bob

[tot_Ou_tard]

birv,

I guess the point I was trying to make was response. Once I got back into tube amps with my Germino, I basically had to relearn how to play the amp - something you don't need to do with SS amps.


Spank,

So how does the Axe-FX feel in terms of responsiveness?

O & by the way, how did that convenience store gig go? :D

[birv2]

After noodling a week with the 2 amps side by side, I'm definitely hearing a better sound from the PJ. Very rich harmonic overtones, great sustain.

But the Peavey still sounds pretty good, and better than any SS amp has a right to sound.

I'm getting a Jensen C10Q speaker tonight and I'm going to try that in the Peavey.

[birv2]

Put the C10Q in, and it sounds very nice in the Peavey. Better than the stock PJ. Smooth and crisp, lots of harmonic overtones.

Makes me wonder how much of your tone comes from your speakers? We all obsess over tubes, pickups, picks, strings. etc. But should be be obsessing more over speakers?

Just wondering.

Bob

[Plank_Spanker]

Spank,

So how does the Axe-FX feel in terms of responsiveness?

O & by the way, how did that convenience store gig go? :D

The Axe FX has a great touch response based on the amp sim you're using. I have a JCM800 patch dialed in that is pure sweetness - excellent at full growl and it cleans up nice when you roll the guitar's volume back / play softly. It responds like a real tube amp. I absolutely LOVE this magic box. :D

You are terrible, man.........it wasn't a convenience store, regardless of what you say, Tot! :rotflmao: It's a bar I used to work at. The coolers are the package part of the store. Convenience stores can't sell alcohol in NJ.

Oh......................it was fun, and we have further bookings there. :D

[goonrick]

SS are absolutely not inferior to tube amps by necessity, they are just different. I have used both for years and there are still situations (usually regarding number of effects and the style of music I'm playing) where I will prefer the SS amp's ability to retain definition with a lot of stuff being thrown in the front end--something the tube amps might just garble up.

I will admit that when plaid straight up, tube amps are superior. However, there are some very, very fine SS designs out there as well. They just have to be approached differently.

BTW, my main SS amp is an Lab Series L5, so it's hardly the dog among SS amps. It's a fine amp in its own right, with the right speakers thrown in.

[Radioboy950]

I'm happy to see this thread, as I too have a great little Peavey SS amp which I have owned since 1990.
It's a Studio Pro that still has the original Blue Marvel in it.
EQ'd correctly, it delivers some of the best clean tones.
It gets punchy with some volume, and absolutely rocks with a nice touch of overdrive from a TS9 or the Hermida Zendrive.
I've kept the amp all these years mostly for practice and recording, but also did some gigs.
OK for small settings, and it mic'd up just fine for something bigger.

[marnold]

Jazz guys often like SS amps because you can get gobs of pristine cleans. Extreme metal guys often like SS amps because you can get ludicrous amounts of gain. Dimebag, for example, used Randall SS amphs for most of his career. It seems to me that George Lynch started out with SS Randalls too before switching to tube Marshalls and Soldanos, among others.