PDA

View Full Version : Clipping in the monitor and house



Eric
September 25th, 2009, 02:59 PM
Hi all,

I've been working on this lightweight setup for a bit now, mostly for playing in church on Sundays, and it goes like this:

LP clone -> Tech21 GT2 -> Boss ME-50 -> Kustom Quad 100 DFX effect return (from amp output on ME-50) -> house PA (from XLR line out on amp)

The GT2 provides a decent clean with some body as the preamp, the ME-50 does all of my effects, and the Kustom amp is pretty much just a monitor that is piped directly into the house. I go into the effect return because I don't want any added mess from the preamp: I just need some volume for myself.

BTW, it's 'lightweight' because the Kustom amp is always there, so I only transport the guitar and two pedals. I like the idea.

The problem came in last night during rehearsal when, upon hitting some louder clean chords, there was significant clipping. This was in both the amp output (because I could hear it), and the house output (because the drummer could hear it in his headphones).

So what's the deal? It's a freaking 100w amp, so how in the world could it not have enough headroom for my lame-o setup? I wasn't playing THAT loud... Gain in the house was turned down to fix the issue in the drummer's phones, but I honestly don't know if it solved anything, because every other song I was playing with OD (i.e. if it was clipping, nobody would realize it).

I want to make sure I'm not damaging A) the amp or B) the house system with the clipping, and I'd ultimately like to know how to solve it. There are going to be times when I need some volume and am playing clean, so just keeping everything low doesn't seem like it's actually addressing the problem.

If you've made it to the end of this post, congratulations and thank you. Please help if you have any ideas. Thanks!

markb
September 25th, 2009, 04:10 PM
The GT2 is an amp emulator. The ME-50 is designed to run in front of an amp. Have you tried ME-50 > GT-2 > monitors? It's possible the GT-2 is clipping the ME-50's DAC.

Eric
September 25th, 2009, 05:19 PM
The GT2 is an amp emulator. The ME-50 is designed to run in front of an amp. Have you tried ME-50 > GT-2 > monitors? It's possible the GT-2 is clipping the ME-50's DAC.

I guess that could happen; I wouldn't actually know, hence the post.

I originally set it up GT2 > ME-50 so I could use the noise gate on the ME-50 to curb the noise from the GT2, and also so time-based effects (delay) would work OK. Since I'm basically using the GT2 for cleans, I don't think those things matter so much.

I'll definitely try the ME-50 > GT2; thanks for the input. For my own reference, what were you talking about with the clipping the DAC bit? I'm not sure I understand.

markb
September 25th, 2009, 05:57 PM
I use a Tech21 amp. Clean, it's punchy, present and very tube like. Distorted it gets very compressed. I think the Sansamp circuitry allows a lot of transient peaks through on the cleaner sounds which could be giving the Digital-Analogue Converter (DAC) on the ME-50 a problem as it's really designed for instrument level signals and not the line level the GT-2 can put out. It could just as easily be the input buffer on the ME-50 that's overloading. There's no clipping indicator on the ME-50 iirc.

SuperSwede
September 26th, 2009, 01:20 AM
I´ve had similar experience with my GT2, it can really output too much for a digital I/O.

Eric
September 27th, 2009, 12:42 PM
I tried swapping the order this morning, but found much of the same issue. Worst of all, it seems that if the amp was pushed too much, it would eventually just quit outputting until I 'reset' it by unplugging either the GT2 input or output and plugging it back in. This same thing happened even when I went right into the amp input instead of the effect return.

Frustration...

I ended up doing guitar -> ME-50 -> amp input -> line out to house. Not preferable, as I wanted some treatment of the clean tones, but it worked for today.

I did hook up guitar -> GT2 -> amp afterward, but I never pushed the limits to see when it would clip, so I guess I didn't learn much of anything.

So now my proposal will be guitar -> ME-50 -> split to 1) direct to amp input for monitoring from one channel of ME-50 output, and 2) GT2 -> DI box -> sound board on the other channel.

Any thoughts on this? Not exactly turning out to be simpler than a mic'ed amp, but maybe still easier in the end... I have no guarantees that this new brainstormed way will work, but I'll see in a few weeks, as I'm going to be out of town in the near future.

Eric
October 24th, 2009, 11:27 AM
Update: I used some contact cleaner on both the effect return and GT2 output and it seems to have helped. This was suggested by the Tech 21 tech support, which was very helpful.

markb
October 24th, 2009, 02:45 PM
Oh, no! Not the old Tech21 dirty jacks problem :thwap

It's very common on Trademark 60 amps and results in no output.

Eric
October 24th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Oh, no! Not the old Tech21 dirty jacks problem :thwap

It's very common on Trademark 60 amps and results in no output.

Well in this case, I think it was on the Kustom amp. The clipping was significantly reduced when I did the spray-the-plug-and-go-in-and-out-1000-times thing, but recently I took a qtip to the effect return and didn't notice anything after that.

Still not 100% the issue is solved, but it looks like it may have resolved.