Tab vs. Clef

[Eric]

Question for all of you. Well actually, a couple of questions -- not exactly a departure when it comes to my posts, I suppose.

1) Do you think it's important to be able to read music (clef-based), the way many many theory books encourage, or do you think knowing scales and relying on tab and/or chords for written music is sufficient? I'm coming from the angle of knowing more tab than clef. I can read music, but I do it very very slowly.

Just wondering what your input is. Reading music is in so many exercise/theory books, I tend to think it's essential for instructional purposes, but I also tend to think that not that many people (percentage-wise) actually know how to read music in real time.

2) ALSO, while I'm on the theory thing, I've thought for a while that I want to learn more bass and some/any piano, mainly for the theory end of things. Chords and inversions and scales just seem so obvious on a keyboard. I have not pursued this much, because the opportunity cost of learning different instruments would be that any spare time I have could not be spent with the guitar.

On the guitar, I know probably 2.5 positions of the pentatonic scale and maybe 2 positions of the major scale. I understand conceptually the CAGED system but haven't mastered it. I can play all major/minor/7th/etc. chords, but only reliably in the A and E shapes.

I can play simple bass if needed, but there's very little riffing. I know maybe one song on the piano.

Knowing that about my skill level, is it worth it to pursue other instruments in the interest of increasing my holistic understanding of chord theory and fretboard familiarity, or is it smarter to spend the time on guitar?

[hubberjub]

It depends on where you see yourself going with music. If you are just looking to play for fun I wouldn't think it's necessary to go beyond playing from tab. I wouldn't try to discourage you either. The problem with tab is that it only relates to the one instrument. When you are playing from sheet music it's easy to relate it to other instruments. If you continue to play the piano it is almost inevitable that you will need to become more fluid in reading standard notation.

[Eric]

When you are playing from sheet music it's easy to relate it to other instruments. If you continue to play the piano it is almost inevitable that you will need to become more fluid in reading standard notation.

I think it depends on what sort of music. I know several types of piano players, from those who make up parts just based on the key to those than play strictly with chord sheets to people who can only play sheet music.

My thing is guitar, and while I would appreciate the versatility of knowing other instruments, guitar is my love and fixation -- learning the others would be a way to bolster my knowledge and skill on the guitar.

Does that help clarify?

[Robert]

Is it important. Well, it depends of course. If you are going to be a studio musician, it may be very important. If don't need to be able to read notation well, then no, I don't think that part is important. What is more important, is to know your instrument, understand theory (scales, chords, intervals, etc) and be able to apply this knowledge to the guitar.

Can you tell I really suck at reading notation? :) haha, I admit it freely! It's a guitar player thing, I suppose.... ;)

[pes_laul]

Personally in my opinion you don't have to be able to read sheet music to be a good guitar player (or musician) But I think it helps a ton (especially if you want to be a session player for a career) or so on.

I'm not very good at it yet but I'm really glad I'm learning because I think in the long run I will be a much better musician.

[Childbride]

Personally in my opinion you don't have to be able to read sheet music to be a good guitar player (or musician) But I think it helps a ton (especially if you want to be a session player for a career) or so on.

I'm not very good at it yet but I'm really glad I'm learning because I think in the long run I will be a much better musician.

excellent post.

Eric... [...] my personal opinion is that people learn in different ways.

same with music.

what works for you is what works for you.

some people can play breathtaking, heart-capturing music by ear. i am not one of them.

i am very [very... slowly... ] learning to sightread on guitar.

i was a mediocre piano player. i was a slightly above average trombone player. but for me, it took being able to sight read so i didn't think about the notes at all to play the music.

but that's just me, and how i learn/play.

i think [imho] it's unique to the player.

secondly... learning piano first is ultimately how i relate to all my music knowledge. literally, when i'm thinking about intervals, or the music itself, i visualize it on a keyboard. so i am biased and i think that this helps tremendously.

[steevc]

I've been having a think about this. I learnt classical guitar in my teens, so had to learn to read music, but most of what I worked on is notated to tell you how to play in on guitar by indicating the position (lowest fret to use) and the fingers to use for each note. So it gives you a lot of the information you would get via tab. You still have to be able to map notes to their positions on the fretboard, but the notation is giving you some guidance.

I don't know what sort of sheet music session guitarists have to work with. I can imagine they might get chord charts and/or melody lines written by the composer and it's left to their experience to choose the best way to play it.

I don't have an issue with using tab. It's a quick way to learn a way to play a piece, but generally relies on you knowing how it should sound as it doesn't indicate all details of the rhythm and timing.

For other instruments, such as piano, there is only one way to play each note and so standard notation is probably the most concise way to show it. Actually learning to read the note pitches is not too hard and it's easier to figure out what scales and chords are being used than with tab. That will help if you have to improvise on it if it's not a simple pattern that you already know.

I've benefited from learning music in that it has helped when I wanted to learn piano and I am working with my kids on learning their instruments (violin, piano and guitar). I've had some fun playing along with my daughter on some of her violin pieces. Playing the other violin part is fairly simple as it's generally single notes. That's good reading practice for me.

As others have said, you don't have to read music to play guitar, and many of the greats don't, but it gives you some extra options. IMHO it's not as hard as some people think.

--
Steve

[sunvalleylaw]

I think those are great thoughts Steve and CB. I learned to read music a long time ago, but am not a proficient sight reader. I also am not so experienced a guitarist that I cannot benefit from the info in Tab re: position etc. My favorite is a combination, like my Mayer "Continuum" book, that has both. I think it useful, but not necessary for guitar, and am glad I at least know how to read sheet music.

[jpfeifer]

Like others on this post, I don't think that it is essential to read standard notation to be a good guitar player, or to have a good understanding of music. However, if you're planning to play with other musicians (such as keyboard players, horn players, violin, etc), then it's more important to get some basic skills at reading standard notation, or at least chord charts so that you can communicate your ideas to these other non-guitar players.

Tabulature is very much a guitar thing. It's great for learning guitar parts if you already know how the song goes, or getting the exact fingering for various chords and licks. But it's a lousy way to try and learn a new song that you've never heard, since tab usually doesn't cover much of the rhythmic notation that standard music would. If you don't already know how the rhythm goes for a lick, then the tab doesn't really help much. Personally I like to use both. I like the standard notation to get the exact timing of the phrase, but I like it when tab is used to show the suggested fingering, etc.

But, with that being said, you can still learn a ton about harmony, fretboard theory and music in general without learning to sight read standard notation. There's nothing wrong with spending your time on other aspects of music and leaving out the sight reading emphasis, it depends on your goals. Just don't be afraid to take it on if you see yourself wanting to play in situations where you will need to have this skill.

--Jim

[ZMAN]

I personally would love to be able to read music again. I did when I was 12 years old. I took music lessons on a Piano based instrument and could actually play top 40 songs back then. Of course the 40 year layoff killed that.
I had a coworker who had a side profession as a band leader. He also played keyboard based instruments and had a very successful Wedding orchestra. One Christmas he brought a keyboard into the office and played for 4 hours. It was amazing that you could request a song and he had about a 4 inch stack of music. If he didn't know the song by heart he could grab the music and play it. I was truly amazed and asked him about it. He said he could look at the sheet music and basically capture it in his head and away he went.
I can only read tablature and I use it along with the recorded version of the song to get the tempo etc. I find I was trying to play the songs note for note but usually the intro is all you need to play that way, and the rest can be your style. The intro sets up the song usually. I guess starting to learn to read music should be my next step!

[Eric]

I think the tacit answer in most of these posts is "I don't read music and I manage pretty well, so it's not that important." :)

Point taken. I'm not going to worry about it too much right now. I do agree that the intro is *usually* the only thing that you need to play in a specific way, though this is somewhat contingent on the music.

At some level, I think that if the person who wrote the music wasn't writing in a clef notation, you might be able to transcribe it to sheet music, but it won't really help you much. In that way, sightreading sheet music for the guitar is a bit of a losing battle, as the majority of the music I would want to play probably was not written that way.

[player]

Started Classical piano in Grade school eons ago until age 9 then fooled with other instruments but ultimately picked up and stuck with guitar at 11,unfortunately did not learn to read guitar music having read piano sheets

Good theory training too but as was eluded to you do not have to know it to be a good guitarist or even read although that helps a ton I'm sure.

BTW self taught under the eye of a professional axe man :AOK

[Eric]

In a (mildly) off-topic question, does anyone regularly play bass? Do you think it helps your guitar-playing at all? If so, in what ways?

[pes_laul]

In a (mildly) off-topic question, does anyone regularly play bass? Do you think it helps your guitar-playing at all? If so, in what ways?
I play bass in my high school jazz band.

I don't really think it helps my guitar playing (well like learning all the scales and basic music theory does) But I think guitar playing actually helps my bass playing more than it does vice-versa.

[Eric]

I don't really think it helps my guitar playing (well like learning all the scales and basic music theory does) But I think guitar playing actually helps my bass playing more than it does vice-versa.

That's good to know. I play bass sometimes to fill in, and I thought the simplicity of it gave me an opportunity to focus on getting the fretboard down cold a bit more. I can see your point though.

[Rampant]

Here's a noob's opinion.

As noted above, the tab doesn't give much guidance on the rhythm or timings. Nor does it usually give as much detail on bends and grace notes. So in these respects, standard notation on the stave is much, much more detailed and is usually all you'd need to learn a new song from scratch.

To learn an entirely new song from scratch with tab, you would also need to listen to the music to pick up any rhythmic nuances and info on bends, etc...

What I have found helps in the year that I've been learning guitar is that some guitar music is printed in [b]both[/i] stave and tab. What you can't process from tab alone can usually be gleaned form the stave.

So even if you can't sight read the stave, it holds the extra info you need to add to the tab to get the full picture.

:D

I guess that in answer to your question it is not absolutely necessary to be able to read the stave. However, if you can read the stave then all written notation is accessible.