Looking at Macs

[M29]

Hello,

I am considering a switch over to a Mac and was wondering what models to consider. I know nothing about them other then there is the all in one imac and the standard tower types. Any suggestions as to what processors to go for or features? Money is a concern and I know they run quite high. I want the most current I can get for the bucks. Maybe something around 2000.00 usd.
I hope this don't start any conflicts but you guys would know more about what to look for in a desktop that would be favorable to our type recording and guitar playing and still be adequate for a family.
Also can my PC monitor work with a Mac or will I need a new one?

Thank you for your time and help.
M29

[Kazz]

Question.....if money is a concern then why are you looking towards Macs? You can get as much if not more firepower in a PC with a lot lower pricetag...even much more so if you build it yourself.

[sunvalleylaw]

Hello,

. . Maybe something around 2000.00 usd.
I hope this don't start any conflicts but you guys would know more about what to look for in a desktop that would be favorable to our type recording and guitar playing and still be adequate for a family.


Thank you for your time and help.
M29


For 2K you can get a whole lot! The top of the line iMac with a 27 inch monitor built in is 1999.00. But for most uses, the lower three iMacs would serve, and start at $1,199.00 with a 21.5 rather than 27 inch monitor. The next one up as a 1TB HD rather than 500GB and the faster ATI Radeon graphics. I would likely buy at that level for me. My 20 inch is plenty huge and still is plenty fast and powerful after buying it in late '07.

You have a monitor, and yes, they do work generally with macs, and a lot of crossover types look at the mac mini starting at $599.00. It is a little slower processor than the iMac, but works for lots of people, and costs a lot less. The big "mac pros" in a more traditional looking box start at $2499 but have huge 4 core processors. Way overkill for my needs. I would look at the iMacs and the Mac mini.

The apple store has all the specs, etc.

http://store.apple.com/us?mco=Nzc1MjMwNQ

Like I said, you can spend all 2k, but for me, as a lawyer that runs windows sometimes, does word processing, online research, some graphics and movie/photo work, and my music stuff, the $1499.00 level iMac would be my choice, and I would save the extra dough, or use some of it to load up the ram. That is how I am using my '07 machine at home, for both work from home, and all the uses you mention, and plan to start using it as a media center to stream vid to a TV, stream and play music over the homes stereo, etc. Happy shopping!

[M29]

Thanks Kazz. In the past I have always built my own PC's and am looking for something different this time.

Steve, thank you for the info. You pretty much covered what I needed to know. Can you run Windows from your Mac? What do you think of the all in one set up? I am concerned about upgrading and adding components.

Thanks again guys.

M29

[sunvalleylaw]

I can and do run windows, simultaneously while running OS X. I use "Parallels" but there are other ways to do it too. I use XP Pro for that, and briefly tried Vista, but given the emulation, Vista did not run well for me on my '05 iMac I tried it on. I did not try Vista on my '07 one, but XP Pro works fine.

The all in one works great for me, but there is admittedly little you can do to upgrade it, other than max out the ram. I tend to buy as I have noted above, max out the ram and then use it a long time. I am not a PC builder, and don't desire to be one at all. That sort of experience is not what you will get with an all in one mac. It will do very well all the things you mentioned in your earlier inquiry though, and should do it well for a long time.

[M29]

Thanks Steve. I am kind of burnt out on computers. I rarely do anything to them anymore. Shoot I have forgot most of the DOS commands, not that they are used much anymore but there was a day way back then. It is getting like guitar modding and amph modding, It always seems to take away from my playing with all the kids and family activities eating up my time.

I think an iMac might be the way to go these days for me.

Thanks again Steve.

M

[markb]

The new iMacs are looking very good. I think that 27" screen might be a bit over the top unless you have a very big desk though. Remember you can always use Boot Camp or Parallels to run a Windows partition for software you just can't give up on. You'll need a windows license too if you do that.

[ted s]

I also have a 21" iMac, 4 years now I guess. It's great.
Other than what I think now was my self inflicted Snow Leopard woes (no probs now btw) Can't think of any negatives for our usage.

[M29]

Do the iMacs have some sort of (audio out) that I can run into an amplifier and external speakers?

M

[markb]

Do the iMacs have some sort of (audio out) that I can run into an amplifier and external speakers?

M

Yes. All you need to know here.

http://www.apple.com/imac/

[Kazz]

regardless of the platform...and all in one should always be avoided...if one part goes bad you have to send in the whole thing for repair.

[M29]

I know what you mean Kazz that is always in the back of my head and the one thing that kind of troubles me with the iMac. The individual component Macs look to be very very expensive. I do hear good things about them though.

[ted s]

M, maybe a mini would be the way to go if it is a mac you want and not all-in one ? A buddy has one, he loves it, used it as some kind of media server well.

[guitartango]

As macs use the intel chipset i cannot understand why they are so expensive compared to the bog standard PC.

No wonder Steve Jobs is so rich !

[ibanezjunkie]

personally i prefer the macbooks, particularly the 17" MBpro. big when you want it, mega thin and small when you dont.

[sunvalleylaw]

Well remember guys the fist Mac was an all in one. It is not likely you are going to have a usable Apple computer if you need to send a part of it in I don't think. It is a different mindset for sure than what you part-o-puter guys are used to (strained reference to partocaster?). I have had to send one in only once, and that was a bummer to be without for a few days, but it was handled professionally and quickly.

I have never owned one of the big "Pro" models in the big boxes. I frankly don't know if you can swap parts in and out of those.

Since the thread is about what Apple computers to look at, I am ignoring the "too expensive" Jobs is rich (Gates isn't?) comments. :pancake

[markb]

The Mini is a good computer, I'm still running a 2006 Intel Mini as my main computer, but the spec just doesn't match up to the new iMac especially when you remember that you get the wireless keyboard and the magic mouse thrown in (not to mention that display). OTOH you could use your current display, keyboard and mouse with the Mini (I did). Buying a Mini was the only time I've ever walked home from the shop with my new computer :-)

Mac Pros are phenomenal and expandable but much more expensive unless you buy an older model like a G5 (available used for good prices). Snow Leopard won't work on the non Intel boxes, but I'm still running Tiger on my Macs with no problems. A few more recent packages (like iLife '09) won't work but the older versions get the job done. What I need is the extra RAM and processor power to handling my photo editing, 6x6cm negatives = big files :dude . I'm seriously considering a new iMac so I can keep using my 50 year old cameras. My Mini will then become an HTPC to run music and video libraries, my Macbook gets used as little more than netbook plus a few basic apps really.

Sorry to get a bit wordy but my point is that none of my hardware needs to be retired because of new OS releases. Sure, PC users can replace all the bits in their box to upgrade but that's just the 200 year old shovel joke in high tech form.

[sunvalleylaw]

Here is the 20 inch, '07 version in action, M29!:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w92/sunvalleylaw/IMG_0045.jpg

[deeaa]

Hello,

I am considering a switch over to a Mac and was wondering what models to consider. I know nothing about them other then there is the all in , one imac and the standard tower types. Any suggestions as to what processors to go for or features? Money is a concern and I know they run quite high. I want the most current I can get for the bucks. Maybe something around 2000.00 usd.
I hope this don't start any conflicts but you guys would know more about what to look for in a desktop that would be favorable to our type recording and guitar playing and still be adequate for a family.
Also can my PC monitor work with a Mac or will I need a new one?

Thank you for your time and help.
M29

What I would do is build a PC and simply install Snow Leopard on it, if you really enjoy using the OS.

There is basically no hardware difference between macs and pc's these days, except macs are way more expensive and more difficult to upgrade.

You can easily run the mac OS on any normal PC. Even dualboot to win/mac osses.

With the same money you can get roughly double the disk capacity, double the processor speed, double the memory and if you like, two monitors if you build a pc...those mac prices are nothing short of insane for what you get on the higher spec machines.

I do think some lower spec macs are much more sensible in their pricing and could be very handy and neat as home computers, though...but if you want power and speed, I'd definitely build.

[SuperSwede]

There is basically no hardware difference between macs and pc's these day

Except for some chips that the PC doesnt have and thus prevents Mac OS from being installed on a standard PC.

It can be installed via software hacks but I wouldnt recommend a new mac user going that route, its just not "the mac experience".

Here is a picture describing the differences between Mac and PC users :D

http://globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/pc-vs-mac-1996.jpg

[ibanezjunkie]

this is a thread full of mac people, so i guess i can ask...

would my dad's mcafee (Windows) work on this mac im on?

G4 Powermac, made in ireland. Tiger 10.4.11, 533MHz processor, etc.

[markb]

this is a thread full of mac people, so i guess i can ask...

would my dad's mcafee (Windows) work on this mac im on?

G4 Powermac, made in ireland. Tiger 10.4.11, 533MHz processor, etc.

Yes, if you've installed Windows via Boot Camp or Parallels Desktop, otherwise no. Why would you want McAfee security software on a Mac?

[ibanezjunkie]

mainly because its all i can get for free at the moment.

my laptop has norton and it sucks. my friend has kasperskey and i just generally dont like the idea of such cheap antivirus.

[markb]

I use this, it's free.

http://www.clamxav.com/

[ibanezjunkie]

is that clamxav thing any good? its not like a generic antivirus or firewall, its just a scanner.

i guess that means it wont detect viruses or malware until i tell it to look for it?

[ted s]

It's a Mac, e don't need no stinking anti-virus..

[ibanezjunkie]

thats what i thought too, but then someone told me that anything that is connected to a WLAN or ethernet cable can be infected with viruses and stuff. i thought it would be best to protect my computers. :poke

[ted s]

Doesn't hurt to be proactive 'Nez, can't fault you there.

[ibanezjunkie]

the tv ads on the apple site perfectly sum up the differences that superswede outlined.

id swear that the 'mac' guy is the guy from DieHard 4.0.

[markb]

That post of Swede's is a bit out of date though. Floppy disks? Iomega Zip drive? Serial cable? A Newton? :)

[tunghaichuan]

the tv ads on the apple site perfectly sum up the differences that superswede outlined.

id swear that the 'mac' guy is the guy from DieHard 4.0.

Good eye. Yup, Justin Long (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0519043/) was in Live Free or Die Hard (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337978/).

[deeaa]

the tv ads on the apple site perfectly sum up the differences that superswede outlined.

id swear that the 'mac' guy is the guy from DieHard 4.0.

Can't watch the TV ads because 'Quicktime required' and I will not install any Apple software on my machine if there is any way to avoid it. If there are any programs that cause more problems than Apple's I sure wouldn't want to even hear about them.

[deeaa]

BTW these guys sell a platform (and complete machines) that allow you to use a Mac OS among others on your machine:

http://www.psystar.com/

That way you can save half your dough and not be handicapped by Apple's limitations.

My friends boots between Linux, Snow Leopard and Win7 and Win Xp on his machine just for the hell of it. So far I've been only using Linux and Xp on my main machine, but today I'm also installing win 7 along with them.

I'll install win7 also on the NC10 minimachine. Maybe I should try the Snow Leopard as well...although my hatred for macs is pretty deep rooted, I once had to use one for a year at work.

[M29]

Thanks all :AOK

[deeaa]

Except for some chips that the PC doesnt have and thus prevents Mac OS from being installed on a standard PC.


Actually from what I've been reading it's vice versa, the Apple OS might not have the drivers for all PC components. Plus Apple is doing its best to include software blocks that try to detect whether the hardware is made by Apple before it allows it to run...but it's met with a lot of opposition on that front. Apple makes its money by selling hardware, not their OS. And the last thing they want is users to understand that the hardware is just the same as on PC and no better quality either; only restricted every which way so Apple could sell hugely overpriced hardware with it. Very hard to get to editing system files etc. and seeing what's actually happening on a mac...they don't want you to be able to do it.

I like Apple's stuff well enough for style etc, just not the OS and some of the hardware such as the horrid mice and them glossy monitors are just terrible. And then the rest is overpriced.

[Kazz]

Ibanez.....Mcafee is worse than having no a/v at all. If you want to use a free a/v look and see if avg has a mac version.

[SuperSwede]

That post of Swede's is a bit out of date though. Floppy disks? Iomega Zip drive? Serial cable? A Newton?

Well..ehrm.. it wasnt meant to be serious.. :poke

[markb]

Well..ehrm.. it wasnt meant to be serious.. :poke

I've added a smiley. Happy now? :)

Deeaa, you're just not getting the point of the slogan "it just works", are you? :)

[deeaa]

I've added a smiley. Happy now? :)

Deeaa, you're just not getting the point of the slogan "it just works", are you? :)

LOL :applause yeah I guess. I just have had such bad experience.

There have been book written about the appeal of mac and windows os:es to different people...for me it's the lack of transparency in the macs.

I want to be easily able to tweak and find out about the system...I seriously dislike for instance icons that come and go on the desktop...I want to make it like I want it and that's it. Even on windows I always turn off all effects and everything...I also config it so I can see entire file paths instead of icons, and the file suffixes and also hidden and system files. I want to put certain types of documents on a different hard drive as other and when I make backups etc. I want to do it manually. I want to modify the startup files, and BIOS settings to get the most of my machine. I want to build RAID arrays and run multiple OS's like Linux as well. I want to low-level edit a 1,5TB disk to be 1T so it will run faster and run my system disk cache on the 1st partition of my fastest disk. My current machine is built to be 3.0/800 and I run it at 3,6/1066 the minimum. And now and then I want to play Stalker and Call of Duty online. And I still use the command prompt for manually writing some DOS commands. All things I don't even know if they're possible on a mac. A lot of the stuff is also harder to do in Windows these days, and you have to manually change the options if you want to, for instance, see system files and put "My Documents" somewhere else than default.

Maybe using Macs is somehow easier&simpler for some people but for instance when we had macs at work, 2 out of 3 of my USB memory sticks just would not work on them. Don't know why. Of course my classroom materials from the last 10 years was made with Excel, word etc. so it was hell to get them open on a mac as well. It always felt really hard to find out how can you do stuff...like, say I get this file which is RAR packed off the net and includes an NFO file I'd like to open in a text editor. How does that happen? On windows, I just right-click and pick an app to open it, depending how I want to view it. But there's no right click on a mac? Where do you find a huge selection of software for it for free? Or Toast would simply freeze when making a disc...and what do you do? Can't find a taskmanager and kill the culprit and go on, although there must be one on mac as well. Maybe it's in a big part just something you'd have to find out before trying. I just ended up in booting the whole system a lot of the time because it just would not respond or I had no clue what was it expecting from me.

Another big part is the programs. I'm sure there are lots of programs for mac as well, you'd just have to know them. Me, I like using a separate program for everything I do. Just for editing and viewing photos, I think I have close to a dozen different programs on my PC. In many cases I _could_ do the same things within one program (like photoshop does have a browser etc.) but it's just much simpler to have Picasa, Anysee etc. for various types of browsing and handling needs. And there's gazillion programs for PC. Want to do most anything you come up with - say, create a morph of your face into a dog's face - and you can find a dozen programs to do it on PC in five minutes. Just install all of 'em and see what works best. I think I have a couple of different morph programs on my machine now

[markb]

Horses for courses, Deeaa. I could answer just about every one of your points above re Macs (command prompts, right click, etc) but it would get dull for everybody.

Sorry you've had a bad Apple experience. I've had a good one. The time I've saved not having to maintain my systems has more than paid for the extra cost of the hardware.

[djmcconnell]

I've been a Mac user since 1986 -- through all of the ups and downs. It's still the only computer I would ever spend money on.

I use a PC at work now, and it's OK. It's a tool. Like a store-brand hammer. If you want a comfortable hammer -- or a nail gun -- get a Mac.

Much better user experience from my perspective.

[SuperSwede]

I've added a smiley. Happy now? :)


Very

[M29]

Hello,

What is the cheapest way to get microsoft word, power point and excel on an iMac? I need these for the kids school work? I know you can buy a Mac office program or you can install and run windows in some way but I was wondering which way would be cheapest.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

M

[sunvalleylaw]

If you have a student in school, (and since you say you need it for your kids' school work) you should qualify for the student version, at a fraction of the normal cost.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&q=microsoft+office+student+mac&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8104421810125983479&ei=e_T6Sq-1IJy-swODksTzAQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDIQ8wIwBA#ps-sellers

[deeaa]

Yeah exactly, and for some schools even lower. I paid about 18 dollars for the 2007 Office Enterprise through the school. Vista 64bit Pro would have been something around 10 bucks, but I opted to pay a bit over hundred for the OEM version of w7 - I don't know when w7 will be available thru our school licencing system.

[M29]

Thanks guys!

Also I used Firefox on my PC Is this Safari better/worse?

M

[sunvalleylaw]

I generally prefer Safari, but it is really preference. Certain websites sometimes like Firefox better, such as when I am a seller on ebay, though I think the Safari issues have been worked out there mostly. But I have and use both.

[marnold]

Also I used Firefox on my PC Is this Safari better/worse?
There's a Mac OSX version of Firefox too.

[markb]

Hello,

What is the cheapest way to get microsoft word, power point and excel on an iMac? I need these for the kids school work? I know you can buy a Mac office program or you can install and run windows in some way but I was wondering which way would be cheapest.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

M

http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/index.php

Fully compatible with MS files. I've been exchanging files with Office users for years and no one's ever noticed the difference.

[M29]

Thanks guys.

Do you that use a Toneport use anything between the Toneport and the iMac's USB? Does it run good enough through the USB port?

[sunvalleylaw]

The standard usb cable that comes with the Toneport works great with Gearbox and Garageband. Nothing else required.

[M29]

Cool Steve thanks!!! :rockon

[ted s]

http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/index.php

Fully compatible with MS files. I've been exchanging files with Office users for years and no one's ever noticed the difference.

OpenOffice is another option, I haven't tried neooffice, are you able to make a comparison between the 2 Mark ?

[markb]

NeoOffice is an OSX version of Open Office, Ted. I've had no performance issues with it. Never used Open Office.

[M29]

I picked up an i Mac last week and I used it for a few days and went out of town. After returning I now notice the cooling fan being quite loud, (air movement not mechanical noise). Is this common? I don't remember it being that loud last week when I first got it.

Thank you for your time and help.

M

[sunvalleylaw]

I can hear mine when it comes on, but it is not all the time, and is not loud. I might call the apple help line for warranty assistance just to be sure. My older intel iMac (white case) does go through periods where the fan is on a bit. Nothing else ever happened, so i have not worried about it. It is well past warranty at this point.

Oh, that reminds me, you can buy the extended warranty before the expiration of the one that comes with your machine, and though I have not always done that, I think it is a good idea. I have used it before on other machines (quite a while ago now) and the service was worth it when I needed it.

[SuperSwede]

I picked up an i Mac last week and I used it for a few days and went out of town. After returning I now notice the cooling fan being quite loud, (air movement not mechanical noise). Is this common? I don't remember it being that loud last week when I first got it.

Thank you for your time and help.

M

My iMac (previous generation) is dead silent except for when the dvd drive is in use. My older white G5 imac did was very loud when the fans kicked in.

[M29]

I downloaded a widget, I think that is what it is called to keep an eye on the temps in the computer. I think this is a start-up issue though. It depends on how I turn it on and whether I pulled the plug from the wall or not. It hasn't done it since so I will see where it goes.
I like it so far.

[sunvalleylaw]

I am glad you like it. My experience is like Swede's. My newer (late 07) iMac is absolutely silent, but my old white one makes noise. If it keeps being noisy, I would call Apple just because.

[markb]

Neither my Macbook nor my Mini make any noise beyond the background hard disk whirr unless I do something like burning a DVD. Then the fans kick in.