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ZMAN
November 5th, 2009, 08:45 AM
To my shock and dismay I picked up my gold top the other day and notice lines in the finish around the tone controls. You can see them at an angle when the light hits it. I am sure it has happened over night. I called my tech and he said that both of his personal goldies have this as well.
I let Gibson know about it and I sent along two pictures of the checking. They said that this is not included in the warranty and said it is fixable. And referred me to their repair department. I sent back a reply that I was very disappointed with them and that I had 5 Gibson guitars, and this would be my last one. The rep sent me a list of the exclusions and said he will send the pictures to his repair department to see if they would come under warranty but doubts it. I got the same explanation from my tech. I went on a couple of Gibson websites and several guys are experiencing this with guitars other than gold tops, which I was told are more prone to this because of the metalic paint. I personally feel it is an issue with chambered guitars. I think because of the thnner top and the finish used by Gibson they are more prone to this checking than the older solid guitars. My Studio is Chambered but has none of these marks. I will keep an eye on that one.
I just thought I would give you guys a heads up on this.
Also these are not cracks and are under the finish, and can only be seen at an angle.

"Just based on the photographs, this appears to be finish checking, which unfortunately, is not covered under warranty, but could still be repaired. Our repair and restoration division can be reached at 615-244-0252, EX 5102. They should be able to assist you with it."

Thanks for writing,

Daryl Mosley
Gibson Customer Service
1-800-4GIBSON
THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

Any instrument that has been altered or modified in any way or upon which the serial number has been tampered with or altered.
Any instrument whose warranty card has been altered or upon which false information has been given.
Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper operation.
The subjective issue of tonal characteristics.
Shipping damages of any kind.
Any instrument that has been subjected to extremes of humidity or temperature
Normal wear and tear (i.e., worn frets, worn machine heads, worn plating, string replacement, scratched pickguards, or damages to or discoloration of the instrument finish for any reason).
Any instrument that has been purchased from an unauthorized dealer, or upon which unauthorized repair or service has been performed.
Any factory installed electronics after a period of one (I) year following the original date of purchase.
Cracking, discoloration or damage of any sort to the finish or plating for any reason. Gibson does not warranty the playability of a instrument whose "action" is lower than the standard "action" as defined in the owners manual.
Thank You,
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/Stewz/PA310026.jpg

Kodiak3D
November 5th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Nothing says quality like Gibson...right?

oldguy
November 5th, 2009, 08:52 AM
For what you paid, that's wrong.They should fix it, or replace it.

ZMAN
November 5th, 2009, 09:09 AM
Let the buyer beware I guess. I am in no way bashing Gibson. It states it right in the warranty. If everyone knew this before they made the purchase, I think it would make people think twice. My only concern is that they will develop into cracks. But I have been assured that they will not by my tech.
The other problem is that I bought this guitar New Old Stock, and was surprised to find it was a 2006. It was of course flawless then. At the time it was over two years old and I saw the date they received it, from the distributor and it was only 6 months at their shop. He had ordered 5 Goldies and there was still one more still in the box. So the distributor had this guitar for possibly 1.5 years, and who knows how they stored them.
I have registered my complaint with Gibson and if they do develop into cracks I will be after them. I will give Gibson a chance to look at the pictures, and see what they say.
It is amazing how many guys on other Gibson related forums have replied that their guitars have the same issue. Most of them have the attitude it gives the guitar character, and mojo. It doesn't in any way hamper the playability.
If they offer a replacement I will take it as long as it is a solid body like a
Traditional. I really like this guitar though. Just a little disappointed.
PS. I have owned it about a year.

bigG
November 5th, 2009, 09:56 AM
Man o man, Z! That is a shame, and IMHO, unforgivable and unacceptable. You're taking this ALOT better than I would.

This is yet another reason to add to my list of reasons NOT to buy Gibson guitars. It's akin to a higher-end auto manufacturer (ie, BMW, Volvo) not covering the paint job against checking or "orange-peeling". I understand it is in Gibson's list of things not covered under warranty, but one has to wonder why that is...!? Are they aware from the start that this is "likely" to happen, and simply not willing to correct the problem at the R&D/Production level? This seems like the only reason to mention it as NOT being covered - it is a "known" defect before the fact!!

(I understand improper care from humidity and temperature extremes not being covered, but those situations are likely to show themselves in certain specific ways. Your situation is WAY different, but apparently not covered thanks to this "blanket" warranty rule. How convenient and blatantly wrong for the good folks at Gibson! I wish them all the worst, and I hope the guitar-buying public lets their unhappiness with Gibson be known where it means the most - in their bottom line! I AM bashing Gibson, and am personally boycotting their products. I sincerely hope there are others out there who will join me. Perhaps David won't kill Goliath, but if Goliath feels David's "attacks" in the pocketbook, they might finally come down off their high-horse!)

Okay, sorry. Rant finished.

G

M29
November 5th, 2009, 09:59 AM
That is terrible. It will more than likely need to be stripped down to the wood to correct it. If nitro lacquer is used again it will probably do it again. That is a shame, guitars usually don't do this for many years. You might be on to something with the chamber body. The top could flex more in temperature changes being thinner that a solid body and that could cause the finish to flex as well causing the checking.

Very sorry to hear this Gibson needs to do something about this especially on this new of a guitar. I will spread this around to those I know.

oldguy
November 5th, 2009, 09:59 AM
Fair enough, Z, and I understand what you're saying. It's still a great guitar functionally, just has a cosmetic "blemish", if you will.
I know people who would freak out over a new guitar, at that price point, if it happened to them, tho. Like if they bought a new car and the paint started going south.
It's still a fine guitar, in any case, and should last you forever.

(edit: I see bigG made the car analogy while I was typing.......I believe he's more upset than you are about this, Z)

ZMAN
November 5th, 2009, 10:34 AM
Don't get me wrong I am upset. All of my guitars are flawless and kept that way. To ses this I almost croaked. But short of replacement what can you do.
A refinish will be the same so a big waste of time. I agree with the car analagy. That was my first thought. I used to make the steel for car hoods and roofs, and if there was even a spec of fly crap on it, it would be rejected because of the issues with painting.
The guy at Gibson has sent me some more emails and has submitted it to his warranty section for appraisal. IF they deem it bad enough, I would have to send the guitar to Gibson then see what happens. I think if it was a crack I would want a replacement. I have talked to several people and I really don't think I have a hope in hades in getting anything done.
I have enough issues in my life without getting worked up about this.
Since the dealer, who I have purchased over 15,000 dollars worth of guitars and amps thinks this "Checking" adds character to it, I should take it back and trade it for a Traditional Gold top, and see what kind of deal I would get. LOL.

Spudman
November 5th, 2009, 10:42 AM
That really is an ugly finish problem. I certainly would be upset considering the brand reputation and price. If it were a normal occurrence then it would stand to reason that all their guitars would do the same thing and they don't. Therefore it should be considered a manufacturing defect unless you are standing on the knobs while turning them and causing the cracks.

Sorry you have to experience this.

BTW - if you ever decide to part with the Blue Deluxe Squier contact me.

red
November 5th, 2009, 02:13 PM
Yep, I was stupid enough to buy a Gibson Billie Joe Armstrong Les Paul Junior in Europe in 2008, sight unseen (bought online).
The body finish checked in a couple of months after I got the guitar (it already had a noticeable line on the neck when I got the guitar), the fretboard wood looked horrible (it was badly chipped in 2-3 positions).

Since it was expensive to send it back (it had been bought from a dealer in another country), I thought I'd just keep it like that, I could ignore the neck finish flaw and had the fretboard very carefully sandpapered at the chipped spots.

After a while the neck started to curb and I had the guitar properly set up (truss-rod adjustment included). Left the guitar in it's case for a while and to my horror when I took it out I saw that it had developed a crack at the back of the headstock. The truss-rod had been improperly installed from the factory and did not really work - the tech tried to tighten the truss-rod as much as possible to make a difference in neck relief, but the wood just ended up cracking a couple of weeks (!) after the setup.

I sent the guitar back, but Gibson said (through the dealer) that the warranty does not cover the issue - because the neck now had a crack. So it's my fault that I didn't return the guitar intact even though they made a crap guitar with a faulty truss-rod that caused the crack in the first place. I still have it in writing (email from the dealer) that Gibson's techs agreed that the truss rod was improperly installed from the factory, but they all still used that technicality against me. So here's a case where they essentially admit I got a lemon from them but still Gibson says jump and the dealer asks how high.

I ended up having to take an extremely bad deal with the online store - they would repair the old guitar and keep it and I'd pay the difference in price to an expensive guitar they had in stock. My old guitar was valued at about 60% of what I paid for it. All this after about 9 months after the initial purchase.

You're lucky your only problem is esthetic. If your guitar works/plays fine and you like the tone, keep it. Your next one might have even bigger issues.

If you read the fine print, Gibson doesn't cover anything under warranty. I will never buy a new Gibson as long as I live. I prefer the Gibsons that sound more like Fender anyway (to steal a line from Marc Ribot), so the choice is a no-brainer.

ZMAN
November 5th, 2009, 02:13 PM
Spudman. The problem isn't restiricted to the tone area. There are also "checking" where the pick up ring is attached, and where the holes for the bridge and stop tail piece are attached. The problem is only with the finish. You can't feel any irregularities. I don't think there are many Gibson owners on this site, but the general consensus over at the Gibson sites it no biggy! To make matters worse I have a Vintage Icon Gold top mfg in Asia and there isn't a mark on it. At around 450 bucks it sure makes the Gibby look bad. I will wait and see what happens with Gibson. I am being true to my word though. I told them I would make sure everyone I talk to on the many forums I am a member, will know the issue and see the pictures. IF that doesn't get their attention, I don't know what will.
As far as the Daphne blue. I ordered that one and when they came in the dealer showed me the White Pearl first, and I could not make up my mind so I got a 2 for 1 deal. LOL. I traded an Epi LP standard for them. I put a set of 9s on the Daphne and 9.5s on the Pearl and that little bit of difference makes it, I prefer the 9.5s. They were both set up by my tech and they play very nice. Screwed down ala hardtail and I don't use the Trem. Some days it almost looks surf green depending on the light.
I hope everyone understands why I am posting this as a heads up. It should be a consideration before you buy a Gibson. To be continued....

red
November 5th, 2009, 02:44 PM
To make matters worse I have a Vintage Icon Gold top mfg in Asia and there isn't a mark on it. At around 450 bucks it sure makes the Gibby look bad.
Not to defend Gibson (obviously...) but the Vintage most likely has some kind of plastic finish, whereas Gibson uses nitrocellulose lacquer. Only the lacquer checks. The plastic finishes (that all MIM and most MIA Fenders also use) don't crack unless you hit your guitar really hard, and then whole chunks of the finish just fall off.

M29
November 5th, 2009, 02:49 PM
Maybe a group gripe to gibson is in order here.:rar

Brian Krashpad
November 5th, 2009, 03:03 PM
Man, that's some funky checking. I haven't seen any like that before.

Mojo sent.

Plank_Spanker
November 5th, 2009, 04:50 PM
Man, that's some funky checking. I haven't seen any like that before.

Neither have I. I've seen some spoke like checking develop radially from the pot shafts, but nothing like this. I don't think the chambered body had anything to do with this checking. The wood is thin there whether the body is chambered or not. My '06 shows no sign of it.

ZMAN, I hope that Gibson gets right with you on this this, but I'm doubtful.

MAXIFUNK
November 5th, 2009, 06:59 PM
Wow, that is not cool in any way shape or form.
So far I only own Fender guitars but when I have saved my bucks seems to me Micheal Kelly guitars are going to get my money when I want an LP style axe.

I know fenders are far from flawless but based on what I've read on-line there seems to be far more complaints of quality issues from Gibson and its subsidiaries.

Sorry to here about this ZMAN damn shame they would not even consider taking care of a loyal Gibson Customer like yourself.

Plank_Spanker
November 5th, 2009, 07:54 PM
I know fenders are far from flawless but based on what I've read on-line there seems to be far more complaints of quality issues from Gibson and its subsidiaries.


Five Gibsons in my house - zero complaints.

ZMAN has a genuine issue, but most of the online noise is generated by cork sniffers and wannabes - and the uninformed who are willing to buy it. I would definitely NOT shoe horn the entire Gibson brand into the internet noise. There is nothing wrong with the current Gibson models and their QC..............but given the numbers produced, there will be a few turds.

Like any guitar - play and choose wisely.

red
November 5th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Wow, that is not cool in any way shape or form.
So far I only own Fender guitars but when I have saved my bucks seems to me Micheal Kelly guitars are going to get my money when I want an LP style axe.
Collings also makes fantastic Les Paul type guitars in the same price range as Gibson.

red
November 5th, 2009, 10:21 PM
I would definitely NOT shoe horn the entire Gibson brand into the internet noise.
Perhaps, but when, like me, you live in a country where you can't find anything above Gibson Les Paul Studios in the local shops and have to order online it's a good rule of thumb to avoid everything a brand puts out after a bad experience with one of their more expensive models at the time. Obviously, if you can go into a shop, pick and choose, it's possible to have a good deal in both financial and quality terms. YMMV.

ZMAN
November 6th, 2009, 07:17 AM
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I have had no issues with my other Gibsons. The Gold top Classic was a guitar that I "settled" on. I had actually wanted a traditional Gold Top. My dealer told me he had a couple of Gold top Classics that he could cut a good deal on. I was a little apprehensive when I fist saw that guitar and the rosewood seemed a little light on the neck. I treated it twice with bore oil and it darkened up. I am wondering if the dryness of the neck was part of the issue with the checking on the body.
The jury is still out at Gibson, I have not heard back from their warranty assesment people. I would love to hear from any others who might have this problem with a Gold Top Gibby. I have heard from several on the Gibson sight and a lot of them are regular colors, with the same issue. Most don't think it is a big deal though. Interesting. The players don't even notice it, the collectors are appalled.

wingsdad
November 6th, 2009, 08:44 AM
Z,
I'd be as upset as you over this. What really sux here is that warranty policy you hi-lited in blue. What Gibson is saying, basically is:

"Your brand new Gibson's Nitro Finish Will Be Damaged By Exposure to the Real World. So, don't take it out of its case, don't touch it, don't play it, and you'll be covered just fine. If you wish to keep the finish pristine as new but actually touch and play your Gibson, get over it. That's not gonna happen. :bootyshake "

With apologies to red for paring this statement to the essentials:

...nitrocellulose lacquer....checks. ... plastic finishes ... don't ...

Nitro finishes are so dang fragile...like the business about don't set the guitar on vinyl-rubber-padded guitar stands or the finish will get damaged...sudden, or shall we say, drastic, changes in temp -- it can be as simple as opening the case all at once vs. just unlatching it, fanning the top a few times to 'suck in' some room temp air and 'acclimate' the finish to its surrounding environment, let it sit that way a few minutes, then repeat the process til it's taken you about 20-30 minutes to get your guitar out of the case-- that's a trick I learned from the dealer when I bought my first Gibson, an ES-330, in '64.

I did that religiously. Still, within a year, the back went first; looked like spider webs of white against the cherry red finish.

I still adhere to this practice of acclimating a guitar from case-to-room. Kinda overkill with poly finishes, but it makes me feel better.

red
November 6th, 2009, 09:11 AM
I did that religiously. Still, within a year, the back went first; looked like spider webs of white against the cherry red finish
That's why I prefer the faded/satin/thin-skin lacquer finishes on my guitars. My favourite type of finish is what you'd find on a Fender 52 Vintage Reissue Telecaster, followed by what you'd find on the faded Gibson series and the Fender Highway One finishes. If you're a player and it's going to wear out in a couple of years anyway, why go through all the glossy nitro finish farce (and pay more for it) in the first place?

Of course, reality is more complex than that, and a faded/satin finish tends to mean a lower quality instrument overall (more pieces of wood in the body, rougher frets, the wood not dry enough, etc.).

Forgot my point... :thwap

marnold
November 6th, 2009, 10:11 AM
Well, I certainly hope that a nitro finish is really as tonally awesome as so many make it out to be, because otherwise it is in every other way a crappy (and, some would argue, cancer-causing) way to finish a guitar. Now, whether this checking that you see should be there already even with a nitro finish is another matter altogether. I can't see how any manufacturer could offer any kind of warranty on any nitro finish. There's just too many simple ways to damage it! I mean, when doing nothing more than leaving the guitar in the case can damage the finish . . . that's just crazy.

MAXIFUNK
November 6th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Collings also makes fantastic Les Paul type guitars in the same price range as Gibson.



Cool thanks for the info I'll be checking them out.

ZMAN
November 6th, 2009, 02:30 PM
Hey you don't have to go very far from a Gibson to get an amazing guitar. I have an Epiphone Elitist Les Paul Custom MIJ. It is wine red with the gold hardware and 60s neck. It has the Gibson 490 498 pickups with epi part numbers on them. It is a wonderful guitar with the poly and no checking or cracks. I picked it up for 900 US from MF, with an Elitist case included.
I have 4 other Gibsons and they are flawless. And no matter what happens with my Gold top I will not sell any of them.
As far as the checking is cocerned, I could not beleive my eyes when I read on the Les Paul forum guys are actually freezing their guitars and cutting them with razors to relic them. I will keep everyone up to date on what Gibson has to say.

red
November 6th, 2009, 02:45 PM
As far as the checking is cocerned, I could not beleive my eyes when I read on the Les Paul forum guys are actually freezing their guitars and cutting them with razors to relic them. I will keep everyone up to date on what Gibson has to say.
Yep, check this guy (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=247003) out. I've stumbled upon that story back when I was doing research on Gibson BJA Les Paul Juniors for my ill-fated purchase.

As for the checking, I can understand your dissapointment, but it really is not that big of a deal. Just enjoy your guitar. And if Gibson doesn't fix your problem in terms that are acceptable to you, you can always swap your guitar for something else with one of the many people for whom it's either no big deal or an added mojo factor.

Good luck either way!

Plank_Spanker
November 7th, 2009, 06:14 PM
I am wondering if the dryness of the neck was part of the issue with the checking on the body.

Highly doubtful. How would a dry neck effect the clear coat finish around the pots in any way? I don't see a connection here at all.

I think the problem with this guitar is an oops in manufacturiung. Somewhere, somehow, something wasn't right where the clear coat met the body at the point of checking, and it wasn't evident when it shipped.

ZMAN
November 8th, 2009, 03:43 PM
What I meant plank was the condition of the neck a sign that the guitar had been subjected to high temperatures, When I bought the guitar it was displayed on the wall at the shop. I was wondering if the dryiness or even sunlight had caused the checking. Not knowing much about laquer finishes it could be a lot of things I guess.

mrmudcat
November 8th, 2009, 06:39 PM
Zman first sorry about the checking.I have 6 gibsons no complaints.......my 84 explorers have lots of checking but ya know that is to be expected. There are so many factors including temp humidity,before it was ever in your hands and ya know some just dont give a crap about taking care of them properly.The painter could of shot a minimal pass therefore causing the checking easier. etc etc .The cracks look different to me then regular checking.3-4 years old that guitar could of been subjective to almost anything weather wise before in your hands.(This next statement is not applied to you brother z )........I really dont like the lets get on the gibson sux bandwagon etc etc because frankly if you havent owned one you dont have much to say on the matter and lastly you will always hear more negative comments on any product as opposed to how great a product is......always at least IMHO:thwap

ZMAN
November 9th, 2009, 07:12 AM
Yes Muddy I am not bashing Gibson. The only issue I have is the statement in their warranty that basically says we put this type of finish on it and if anything happens to it we are not responisible. I understand the fact that once a guitar leaves the factory it can be subjected to huge temperature and humidity fluctuations, and I really think that is what the issue is with mine.
I will admit that the pictures make it look a lot worse than it actually is.
My only reason for putting this thread together is to bring this to peoples attention.
I almost lost a really nice MIJ Strat to a severly bent neck. I stored it under a bed, and forgot there was a heat register fairly close. Luckily I was able to get the neck adjusted before it was bent beyond repair. Because of this I have been very diligent in where and how my guitars are stored.
The other reason I wanted to bring this to peoples attention is the chambering. I am not yet convinced that this is not a contributing factor in this case. Most of the replies to this style of checking is attributed to chambered guitars. I don'tknow if a lot of people realize but inside the control cavity of a chambered guitar, all the pots etc are mounted to a metal plate which is attached to the guitar by screwing down the pots, compared to each individual pot being mounted on the guitar. This would strengthen the pots, but does it add stress to the thinner chambered top?
I still have not heard from Gibson's warranty assessment people yet.
I am not sure if I will even bother, unless they will replace it with a non cambered guitar.

red
November 9th, 2009, 09:01 AM
I really dont like the lets get on the gibson sux bandwagon etc etc because frankly if you havent owned one you dont have much to say on the matter and lastly you will always hear more negative comments on any product as opposed to how great a product is......
I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. Let me start right off the bat in saying that

I am a Gibson owner; and I've obviously owned the BJA Les Paul Jr I've written about. So I did and I do own one, thus according to your criteria I am officially allowed to have an opinion.
I think we're both right, just looking at this from different angles.

Let me elaborate on that: you fine US citizens are lucky to be able to go into a shop and pick a guitar. Most EU countries, even economically advanced ones, don't really have an official Gibson repair center. There's one in one country, and it works for a bunch of neighbouring countries. Many places (especially the Eastern part of the EU) either don't have a Gibson dealer at all, or the dealer refuses to stock anything above Les Paul Studios or the equivalent SGs. You can order a guitar from them that they don't stock, but they make you pay about 20% of the price upfront, and they usually disagree with you on what you consider faults of the instrument, so you might as well order online from another EU state.

And let's talk prices: you can get a Les Paul Standard guitar from Musician's Friend in the US at $2000. In Europe, the same guitar is 2000 Euros, but 1 Euro = 1.5$. So the same guitar that you pay $2000 for costs me $3000.

So, considering I have to pay a lot more, and end up buying from one country and having to send the guitar back for warranty issues to yet another country, I would expect my guitar to be, if not perfect, then at least structurally sound and very playable.

Even if I might chuck my experience to bad luck for the one guitar I happened to receive, the international pricing policy is Gibson's thing. Where they have authorized repair centers is Gibson's thing. The way they respond to warranty issues is Gibson's thing. What the warranty covers is Gibson's thing. And for all those reasons, I will never buy another new Gibson for as long as I live in Europe. Though I cringe at being referred to as "on the Gibson bashing bandwagon".

As for your argument that you hear more negative comments about a product than good: first of all, I don't know if that's quite true, and second, the correct criterion is probably the good/bad comment ratio. I think Gibson's got a pretty bad one right now. It doesn't seem to happen for Victoria Amplifiers, or Durham Electronics, or Keeley's pedals nearly as much as for Gibson. In fact, I would argue that it's exactly the other way around: when you buy something expensive like a Gibson, you really want to love that instrument, so you'd try everything you can to either fix minor issues, or post-rationalize the purchase, before resorting to bad reviews and unpleasantness.

I do agree that, if properly made, a Gibson guitar can be a Very Nice Thing (TM), but they just don't seem to care hard enough these days. They've grown fat and lazy.

Another thing you might find interesting, is that at the time I asked a couple of US online shops if they'd send over a Gibson. They replied that yes, they send packages internationally no problem, but that Gibson does not allow them to sell Gibson products overseas. You can only buy a Gibson guitar from the US in Europe if you buy from an individual seller on eBay or something like that.

I'll shut up now, just needed to say that.

ZMAN
November 9th, 2009, 05:37 PM
Hey Red: I understand your issues, I am in Canada and we have the same problems to a lesser extent. But I don't think that Geographical locations should enter into this discussion. What I tried to do was bring to the forefront a possible issue with Chambered Gibsons. At no time did I slag Gibson. I have 5 Gibbys and they are amazing guitars. The mere fact that you covet a Gibson guitar, and can't seem to get the one you want is the real issue here.
I have spent over 10,000 Can. dollars on Gibsons, and I would spend it again. A couple of issues of checking will not worry me. I must admit I have an address in the US, and I can get those deals. But if you have to pay more in Euros, I am sorry but it is what it is. My annual income was probably 25% higher in Can. dollars than in the US. The Exchange is about 7% and shipping is free. So do business in your country, and enjoy the product. If you decide to sell it down the road you will get what you paid for it plus!
I agree with Muddy. And now I am sorry I even put this thread out there. It was not intended for this purpose.

Kodiak3D
November 9th, 2009, 06:28 PM
Don't feel bad, Z. You brought a valid issue to view.

red
November 10th, 2009, 01:41 AM
But I don't think that Geographical locations should enter into this discussion.
Well, I'm sorry if that ended up being somewhat off-topic, it was in reply to mudcat's comments, and I was just pointing out that people in different areas of the world might have conflicting but equally valid viewpoints on the same issue.

I've explained all these things out of respect for our conversation - I dislike generic authoritative arguments ("that's my opinion and it's absolute truth") - so I try to explain myself out of respect for my interlocutors. That's why my geographical location was relevant to the conversation.

What I tried to do was bring to the forefront a possible issue with Chambered Gibsons.
You have touched more than briefly, and quite vehemently, on what the Gibson warranty covers, an issue that applies to all their products not only chambered guitars. Thus I believe I was on-topic in telling you that story that shows that even greater defects (such an improperly installed truss-rod) will not be fixed under warranty if that can be done by any technicality. Believe it or not, I wanted to tell that story to make you feel better about the checking. If I misunderstood your topic and went overboard with it, my apologies.

The mere fact that you covet a Gibson guitar, and can't seem to get the one you want is the real issue here.
That sounds a bit patronizing, and it really is not the issue. I ended up with a Custom Shop Gibson in that deal with the dealer I wrote about, and that guitar is fine, so I got one better than the one I coveted. At huge cost. Not being able to get what I want is not the issue here, HOW I ended up getting it is.

I have spent over 10,000 Can. dollars on Gibsons, and I would spend it again. [...] But if you have to pay more in Euros, I am sorry but it is what it is. My annual income was probably 25% higher in Can. dollars than in the US. The Exchange is about 7% and shipping is free. So do business in your country, and enjoy the product.
I'm happy for you, but having to pay 50% extra for the same thing does not happen for Fender products, or BOSS products, or Electro-Harmonix products, and so on. I can understand a slightly higher price, but 50% extra is a bit steep, especially at high prices like Gibson has.

I live in Romania, which is in Eastern Europe. Here, making 1000 Euros per month is considered an enviable salary. Most doctors usually don't make that much. And your bills come out of that. So I don't make >50% more in salary than somebody in Canada or the US does. I make at least 50% less.

I find it very interesting that everybody seems to be full of compassion for your checked finish, but somehow me having to pay through the nose for a bad truss-rod in a new Gibson instrument is something I deserved, and I'm on the "Gibson bashing bandwagon".

If it helps, I'm bitterly sorry that I've ever written in this thread as well.

ZMAN
November 10th, 2009, 07:41 AM
Well that is interesting. There isn't the same markup on Fender and other musical accessories. I thought you meant that everything is 50% higher where you are. Our prices range up or down with the dollar exchange to US bucks. The MSRP is never what you pay for a guitar, there is always the street price, that is usually about 30% above what the dealer pays for it. The larger the dealer usually the lower the price. Most dealers will match the large online dealers prices. To be truthfull I have only purchased two out of my 5 Gibsons brand new. The rest were puchased used. There were a lot of good deals with the recession.
I guess I read your comments wrong, but this forum has always been a family type atmosphere, and we try to be helpfull and constuctive. There isn't a lot of bashing of anything around here.
I would be upset if I had a bad truss rod in any of my guitars. And your experience seemed to work out in the long run.
Most of the responders to this thread, know me as a regular here, and know how I feel about my guitars being pristine. I am not a relic type of guitar owner.
It is interesting to find out where you are from. We have people from all over the world and it is always interesting to see what issues people in the rest of the world have in obtaining guitars and musical accessories.
I think I have given Gibson enough time to get back to me so I will be emailing them today for an answer, and I will update as soon as I get one.

wingsdad
November 10th, 2009, 08:53 AM
Z, I think the finish checking isn't so much due to the chambered (or hollow, or semi-hollow) body as it is more likely related to this point that Plank hit on:

...
I think the problem with this guitar is an oops in manufacturiung. Somewhere, somehow, something wasn't right where the clear coat met the body at the point of checking, and it wasn't evident when it shipped.
And that, then falls under the typical warranty verbage of 'defect in workmanship and/or materials'....

I'm not intent on bashing Gibson, but for any manufacturer to summarily not cover the finish like that...to thus rule out the possibility that they may have screwed up in manufacture...:thwap

Just to compare manufacturer's attitudes: Washburn --- I doubt if anyone will put them in the same league as Gibson --- stood up on a slight, almost hidden (in the crook where the neck meets the body under the upper bout curl) flaw in the application of the finish on the M6SW mando I bought, pointed out over the phone to them by my dealer. They offered for me/him to send it back and they'd replace it. Instead, because I didn't want to take a chance on getting a replacement that might not sound as good....(the magical solid woods thing with an acoustic instro) we asked for a reasonable price adjustment and suggested an amount. They offered to do that, and we accepted. The whole thing, dealing with an instro with an MSRP at the time of about $1400 or so USD was settled in a 10-minute phone call, to everyone's convenience and satisfaction.

oldguy
November 10th, 2009, 05:22 PM
FWIW,
I've owned two Les Pauls (a Custom and a Deluxe), one Flying V, and one SG over the years. They were all fine playing instruments. The Deluxe developed severe checking, the SG mild. The others never had any.
I bought one Strat brand new around 1972, and it developed a twisted neck issue, which was a nightmare to try and get repaired. Fender didn't seem to care, even after phone calls and letters from the dealer I bought it from.
I bought a new Carvin guitar, which was a beauty, and two Carvin amphs, which were headaches from day one. Go figure. The amphs got fixed after about six months, shipping back and forth, and lots of phone calls...."when will it be fixed?"......"dunno, soon, hopefully........what did you say the problem was again?"...........AAARRRGGHHHHHH!
I tend not to paint any company's attitude to a particular problem w/ too broad a brush. Some people who make the call for any given company can be stinkers from time to time.
Sorry to get O/T here Z, just my experiences.

I hope you get your issue resolved to your satisfaction, and soon.
And thanks for bringing this to folk's attention, just so they have a heads-up and have the chance to make an informed decision.

Plank_Spanker
November 11th, 2009, 05:32 PM
What I meant plank was the condition of the neck a sign that the guitar had been subjected to high temperatures, When I bought the guitar it was displayed on the wall at the shop. I was wondering if the dryiness or even sunlight had caused the checking. Not knowing much about laquer finishes it could be a lot of things I guess.


Continuous dry conditions will not cause checking. Sudden temperature changes and age are the usual suspects. Sunlight will also not cause checking - it just fades the finish. The dry neck was from lack of play / lack of maintenance..................not in any way related to the checking you're experiencing.

That checking is different.................and I stand by my previous point of a manufacturing "oops".

Eric
November 11th, 2009, 05:59 PM
I do agree that, if properly made, a Gibson guitar can be a Very Nice Thing (TM), but they just don't seem to care hard enough these days. They've grown fat and lazy.

I'm not allowed to have an opinion, but if I was, I'd say that was very well stated and contained many good points throughout.

Plank_Spanker
November 11th, 2009, 06:53 PM
Wow! This thread took a serious turn to the worse!

I own five Gibsons that I'm very happy with, but other than that, I'll refrain from adding any fuel to the fire here..............................

Let's focus on ZMAN's original post.................

oldguy
November 11th, 2009, 06:57 PM
Wow! This thread took a serious turn to the worse!

I own five Gibsons that I'm very happy with, but other than that, I'll refrain from adding any fuel to the fire here..............................

Let's focus on ZMAN's original post.................

AMEN and +1..........!!!!

ZMAN
November 12th, 2009, 07:31 AM
Thanks guys for your support. I really don't mind people giving their experiences with various models and manufacturers. I am very meticulous in my record keeping. (Having been in the accounting field) I recently sat down with my records and found I have owned 29 Electric guitars and currently have 17. I can say that of those guitars I have never had an issue with any of my guitars, othere than a loose input jack on one of my Squier Deluxes that was and easy fix at the dealer.
I have given Gibson a week to look at the pictures and I sent them an email today. I mentioned that fact that I have been talking on several forums to guitar owners, giving them my experiences and some of the feeback I received. I hope that gets their attention.
I am glad to see that most of the people understand my dissapointment.
OH: And I have requested a replacement, with a non chambered guitar.
due to the fact that I feel the value of my guitar has been lessened through no fault of mine. I can't wait for their reply.

ZMAN
November 15th, 2009, 08:25 AM
I got a reply from Gibson saying that the repair department hadn't gotten back to customer service on the pictures I sent. I played her yesterday and it feels so good and sounds even better. I am leaning more and more toward the thought that it really isn't worth the hassle for a little checking.
They also referred me to the Canadian division, Yorkville sound. Apparently they handle all the warranty claims for Canada. I have to go down to my dealer next week to pick up a Marshall footswitch, so I will check with him on his thoughts.
She sure sounds nice through my Marshall and 2/12 Avatar. I can see Goldie staying with me, even with her flaws.

Plank_Spanker
November 15th, 2009, 05:40 PM
I hate to say it, but chances are great that Gibson will do nothing. I have very little faith in Gibson customer service.

ZMAN
November 16th, 2009, 07:56 AM
I agree plank and I have been thinking about this. I have registered a complaint with them and I have emails to back it up. If this checking develops into even the slightest crack, I will be returning it. I have been told by many Gibson Goldtop owners that is is common and shows up more in the metalic paint on the Gold top. I will monitor it closely, but for now I guess I am done with Gibson.
I just wanted to make sure people know about this. It was more of a heads up than a gripe.
Thanks guys for all your support.

MAXIFUNK
November 17th, 2009, 12:33 AM
Hey Red: I understand your issues, I am in Canada and we have the same problems to a lesser extent. But I don't think that Geographical locations should enter into this discussion. What I tried to do was bring to the forefront a possible issue with Chambered Gibsons. At no time did I slag Gibson. I have 5 Gibbys and they are amazing guitars. The mere fact that you covet a Gibson guitar, and can't seem to get the one you want is the real issue here.
I have spent over 10,000 Can. dollars on Gibsons, and I would spend it again. A couple of issues of checking will not worry me. I must admit I have an address in the US, and I can get those deals. But if you have to pay more in Euros, I am sorry but it is what it is. My annual income was probably 25% higher in Can. dollars than in the US. The Exchange is about 7% and shipping is free. So do business in your country, and enjoy the product. If you decide to sell it down the road you will get what you paid for it plus!
I agree with Muddy. And now I am sorry I even put this thread out there. It was not intended for this purpose.


No reason to feel sorry your thread had interest to many of us how Gibson deals with certain warranty issues. I for one learned something and thank you for letting a fellow musician know the deal.

M29
November 17th, 2009, 09:19 AM
I just played a friends Epiphone LP and it had one crack like this by the bridge volume control.