Advice on a friend's potential purchase

[Eric]

Question for everyone:

The bass player at my church wants to learn guitar, and someone suggested he get an electric guitar to learn, so he's been searching. He tends to like Les Pauls, and he's left-handed.

I came across an HC post (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2507310) for an Agile AL-2000 silverburst left-handed for $200. It has a SD JB in the bridge position and had a hole re-drilled for the bridge, because I guess it wasn't installed correctly initially.

I did some searching and found out the following:
-He listed the same thing on the Agile forum and dropped the price to $185 after no bites.
-He has a youtube channel and originally got it as a b-stock for $149.
-The b-stock is apparently because the pickguard had some scratches, but I wonder if that had anything to do with the bridge.
-He has had it set up since the bridge/pup work.

I emailed and asked him if he would take $175 for it, and he said yes. It goes for probably $210 brand new with stock pups. Is this worth it?

My friend will be ready to act soon, so with this new info, I'm just trying to gather opinions.

[M29]

Is there anyway we could see a couple pictures of the bridge repair? Sure sounds odd to me.

[Eric]

Is there anyway we could see a couple pictures of the bridge repair? Sure sounds odd to me.

I linked to the posting, which has pictures of it. I think harmony central might be down right now, because the page isn't loading.

[Brian Krashpad]

Well, the seller got it for $150 and put another $75 into it with the Duncan, so $175 is not a bad price. My own personal "good deal" rules of thumb are to not pay more than half of "street" new price, and that the seller should consider any mods as a wash and not expect to get that additional amount back.

That said, when you're talking about a guitar that was only $150 to begin with, the rule of thumb has to be more flexible. The rule works better with mid-priced and up guitars. Also militating in favor of this deal is the fact that it's a lefty. Those are much harder to come by, and as a result the buyer is in less of a position of strength than with righties.

Since HC is in fact currently down, I can't see what the repair looks like. If it hasn't done a number on the looks of the guitar and it plays well, the deal is an acceptable one, if not a fantastic bargain. My guess is that lefties much more often have to settle for acceptable deals rather than great bargains because of product availability.

[Eric]

Well, the seller got it for $150 and put another $75 into it with the Duncan, so $175 is not a bad price.
Question about this: what is the application of a Seymour Duncan JB? Based on his youtube vids, the current owner seems to enjoy Tool quite a bit.

I sense that when the prospective owner gets around to caring about tone, he's probably going to be most interested in a classic-rock tone.


My guess is that lefties much more often have to settle for acceptable deals rather than great bargains because of product availability.
I was thinking about that. It's fairly tough to find lefties, much less a good deal. Hmm...I wonder if it matters with the pickups, since it's strung opposite. Probably not?

At the end of the day, I'm trying to get him something that will serve him well for the bare minimum amount of scratch. Considering that a new AL-2000 would be $225 with shipping and might need a setup....well....I'm still not sure. Kind of seems like a push, huh?

[FrankenFretter]

Eric, I know you are a frequenter of Rondo's website, as am I. If he's just looking for something inexpensive, of relatively good quality, there are several SX Les Paul knock-offs for under $150. And you know as well as I do that SXs aren't bad at all. They even have a cherry sunburst lefty with EMGs. Just something to think about before he spends his money on something used and possibly slightly shifty.

-Sean

[Eric]

Eric, I know you are a frequenter of Rondo's website, as am I. If he's just looking for something inexpensive, of relatively good quality, there are several SX Les Paul knock-offs for under $150. And you know as well as I do that SXs aren't bad at all. They even have a cherry sunburst lefty with EMGs. Just something to think about before he spends his money on something used and possibly slightly shifty.

-Sean

Good input -- thanks. I will weigh that before I have him act on anything. He's basically giving me the reigns on his decision, which is probably a good call, since he is brand-new to the world of guitars.

[Brian Krashpad]

Question about this: what is the application of a Seymour Duncan JB? Based on his youtube vids, the current owner seems to enjoy Tool quite a bit.

I sense that when the prospective owner gets around to caring about tone, he's probably going to be most interested in a classic-rock tone.

The JB should be great for that. It's basically a slightly hotter PAF type humbucker. Supposedly the Jazz(neck)/JB(bridge) combination is ol' Seymour Duncan's personal favorite for rock. I have that combination that came stock in my Fernandes Ravelle and like it a lot. They're hotter than Burstbuckers or '57's or similar really traditional, but not so much that you can't do classic rock with them.



I was thinking about that. It's fairly tough to find lefties, much less a good deal. Hmm...I wonder if it matters with the pickups, since it's strung opposite. Probably not?

Sfaik, no it shouldn't make any difference. I'm no tech guy, but the pole pieces are all the same, it's not like they're tuned for specific pitches or anything.



At the end of the day, I'm trying to get him something that will serve him well for the bare minimum amount of scratch. Considering that a new AL-2000 would be $225 with shipping and might need a setup....well....I'm still not sure. Kind of seems like a push, huh?

I'll admit to being kind of on the fence on this one. Since he's a noob guitar-wise that sorta discounts the pickup upgrade. Heck I'm not sure I can really tell all that much difference in pickups, and in fact play pretty much everything I have stock. He is saving about $50 and getting a guitar with what most would consider a significant upgrade to the bridge pup. Iirc the 2000 series have ceramic pickups and a lot of more "experienced" guitarists do prefer alnicos like the JB (I personally think the alnico/ceramic dichotomy is somewhat overblown).

It may come down to whether he can live with the repair on the front of the guitar. I just got through to HC finally, and it's not bad at all, nothing that'd bug me, but different people are different about that sorta thing.

[Melvin]

I am looking to purchase a 1971 335 Epiphone – Cherry Red. It seems to be in great condition. I understand that 1971 was the first year that the 335 was made in Japan. Can anyone tell me about this guitar and if it is a good instrument. I want a 335, but I can’t afford a Gibson now. Anything you can tell me about the Epiphone 335 would be appreciated. If it is good shape, what would it be worth? I can purchase it for $300, is it a good buy? I currently have an American Strat and love it. Will the action be comparable?

[Melvin]

I am looking to purchase a 1971 335 Epiphone – Cherry Red. It seems to be in great condition. I understand that 1971 was the first year that the 335 was made in Japan. Can anyone tell me about this guitar and if it is a good instrument. I want a 335, but I can’t afford a Gibson now. Anything you can tell me about the Epiphone 335 would be appreciated. If it is good shape, what would it be worth? I can purchase it for $300, is it a good buy? I currently have an American Strat and love it. Will the action be comparable?

[marnold]

The JB is wound to 16.4K, so it's reasonably hot for a humbucker (yes, I know that impedance does not necessarily mean the same thing as output). It's got a good amount of highs and upper mids. Guys who like to play teh br00talz don't like it because they say it doesn't have a lot of low end. 80s metal guys like myself really like it. I think it could basically take on anything in the blues or rock genres. Extreme metal-only guys would probably want to look to elsewhere. I've got the JB/Jazz combo in my DK2M and really like them. I figured I'd probably want to put a Screamin' Demon in there, but I like the JB so much that I saw no need to spend the cash.

[Brian Krashpad]

I am looking to purchase a 1971 335 Epiphone – Cherry Red. It seems to be in great condition. I understand that 1971 was the first year that the 335 was made in Japan. Can anyone tell me about this guitar and if it is a good instrument. I want a 335, but I can’t afford a Gibson now. Anything you can tell me about the Epiphone 335 would be appreciated. If it is good shape, what would it be worth? I can purchase it for $300, is it a good buy? I currently have an American Strat and love it. Will the action be comparable?

Epi 335's are almost universally called "Dots" rather than 335's. I haven't researched old Dots, but since those old Japanese-made guitars have a very good rep, and new 335-style Chinese guitars will cost as much, if in good shape this could be anywhere from a good to a great deal.

It won't play anything like a Strat though. The necks are different and the scale length is different.

Lastly, it'd probably be best for you to start a separate thread to ask a different question than that asked in the original post. Eric's a good guy and won't be upset, but you're sorta "highjacking" his thread with this question. The thread you start should go in the Gibson guitars subforum for Epiphones, here:

http://www.thefret.net/forumdisplay.php?f=45

Also, since this is your first post, consider going and introducing yourself with a thread in the Fret Players forum here:

http://www.thefret.net/forumdisplay.php?f=13

Cheers.

[Eric]

The JB is wound to 16.4K, so it's reasonably hot for a humbucker (yes, I know that impedance does not necessarily mean the same thing as output). It's got a good amount of highs and upper mids. Guys who like to play teh br00talz don't like it because they say it doesn't have a lot of low end. 80s metal guys like myself really like it. I think it could basically take on anything in the blues or rock genres. Extreme metal-only guys would probably want to look to elsewhere. I've got the JB/Jazz combo in my DK2M and really like them. I figured I'd probably want to put a Screamin' Demon in there, but I like the JB so much that I saw no need to spend the cash.
Ah, very good. My main fear was that it was something one would only use for 'teh br00talz.'

[Eric]

Is there anyway we could see a couple pictures of the bridge repair? Sure sounds odd to me.
Taken from the HC post:
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l319/schecterc1lh/Guitars/IMG_0243.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l319/schecterc1lh/Guitars/IMG_0244.jpg

[Heywood Jablomie]

IMO, $175 is not a good price at all, especially for a no-name B-stock guitar. Used stuff (A-stock in good condition) often goes for 50-60% of its new price, sometimes less. The most I'd consider for that Agile would be $100.

[ZMAN]

From the pictures I would say that the B-stock was a result of a poorly drilled hole for the stud. The repair does not look that good and I would say for extra 50 bucks the guy gets a brand new guitar, which might suit his tastes better with the stock pickups, and for a first guitar he would have no issues. It might need some tweeking, and a little for shipping but it might just be worth it.

[Eric]

From the pictures I would say that the B-stock was a result of a poorly drilled hole for the stud. The repair does not look that good and I would say for extra 50 bucks the guy gets a brand new guitar, which might suit his tastes better with the stock pickups, and for a first guitar he would have no issues. It might need some tweeking, and a little for shipping but it might just be worth it.
Thanks for the input on the bridge work. That's one of the things I don't know much about, and you might be right about it. It's not pretty, but do you think it would affect anything stability or playability-wise?

While I think these guitars' value far exceed their cost in most cases, I have found that they usually require a little work to get purring, and a setup around here is about $50. I could maybe do some of the neck relief/action/tailpiece/intonation, but I don't trust myself on stuff like filing the nut or checking electronics.

I appreciate the opinion -- I'll let you know the final decision.

[M29]

Without seeing the repair from the top, and not being able to check the intonation I would pass. The low E saddle is way to the rear even with the bridge moved in that direction already. No room for any future adjustment and if it had just been setup you have no where to go from here. It must have been very bad before the repair. After looking again...the saddle could be turned around to get more adjustment out of it but I would still pass. If it will not tune/intonate it will drive someone crazy every time they pick it up. The repair is far from a professional job. I think spending the extra money for a new one would be worth it. IMHO of course:socool

[Eric]

The repair is far from a professional job. I think spending the extra money would be worth it. IMHO of course:socool
Thanks. I'm leaning in that direction, and I think it might be moot anyway, as his wife has other thoughts about purchasing it...

[Eric]

As an update, he decided to forego this guitar and bought a new AL-2000 instead. I thought that was the right move.

Out of curiosity, for anyone who has owned both, how does an AL-2000 compare to an Epi LP Standard?

[Duff]

I'm just about to tune up a brand new AL2000 I bought for my fiance's grandson along with a Peavey Valve King Royal 8; all brand new, 120 for the Royal 8 with an extra set of strings and a Korg auto tuner, 120 out the door.

I'll play the Agile thru a few amps and then play the Epi LP Standard plus top with Seymour Duncans, JB in bridge and 59 in neck; then compare to my great sounding Xavier XV500.

Will be interesting because I'm considering getting an Agile.

[Eric]

I'm just about to tune up a brand new AL2000 I bought for my fiance's grandson along with a Peavey Valve King Royal 8; all brand new, 120 for the Royal 8 with an extra set of strings and a Korg auto tuner, 120 out the door.

I'll play the Agile thru a few amps and then play the Epi LP Standard plus top with Seymour Duncans, JB in bridge and 59 in neck; then compare to my great sounding Xavier XV500.

Will be interesting because I'm considering getting an Agile.
Yeah, let me know what you think -- I love those (somewhat) objective side-by-side comparisons.

[Duff]

So far too close to call. Played the AL2000 several times and the Xavier a few times and the Michael Kelly Custom w direct mount Rockfield HB's.

Of these guitars I would say the Michael Kelly sounds best. A fuller tone, more bass; but the other two sound great. The AL2000 seems distinctly brighter probably due to the maple neck but the white body and gold trim look fantastic and the brighter sound is awesome but not like a strat and all three switch positions are quite different with the neck pup sounding very nice and smooth.

[Eric]

So far too close to call. Played the AL2000 several times and the Xavier a few times and the Michael Kelly Custom w direct mount Rockfield HB's.
How about playability, quality, bang for buck, etc.?

[Duff]

The Xavier was 208 dollars, has a three quarters inch solid maple cap on top of a solid mahogany body with a set mahogany neck and awesome GFS chrunch PAT pickups that really drive the front end of a tube amp.

The Michael Kelly was 600 dollars and has Rockfield direct mount pickups that are great. All mahogany with flame maple red burst top.

All three play great and feel great. There are tonal differences like I said.

Have to compare my Epi LP Standard plus top with Semour Duncans yet. No preconceived ideas on how it will compare yet. Trying to be objective.