Cracked necks and resultant $$

[Eric]

Hi all,

I found out last night at practice that the other lead guitar player at church had an accident. While he was playing acoustic the previous day, his Epi LP fell off of the stand and onto the stage, apparently straight on the fretboard/pickup side.

What he has now is a nice crack on the back of the neck, somewhere around the 10th fret if I recall, kind of curved along the grain of the neck (imagine an upside-down 'U' if you are looking at the back of the neck). Looking at it, the relief was obviously off, and the neck now has some seriously excessive relief, which makes me think this was structural. It didn't look too deep, but I didn't examine it that well.

I know nothing about necks aside from Gibson-esque guitars having set necks. Without a picture or further details at the present moment, can any of you speak on the likely state of his guitar? Should he be coming to terms with the end of an era or is a repair likely/possible? What should his next course of action be? According to him, he paid ~$250 for it, though he wasn't sure.

Input appreciated!

[Spudman]

I've heard that the really good luthiers can repair those type of issues. I've never had to have it done but I've seen repaired necks with that type of damage and it is hard to tell there ever was damage. Might be cheaper than a new guitar to get it fixed.

[oldguy]

A pro could most likely fix it. Hard to say without pics, but most things can be fixed if you have a good repairman and the $$$.
I had a cracked headstock on a flying v once, and a friend of mine who owned a little mom and pop guitar shop fixed it. It was a clean break, with no pieces MIA, just two surfaces that he re-glued, sanded, and re-finished. You could hardly tell it, and it played fine afterward. I think he charged me twenty bucks, IIRC.

[M29]

I have limited knowledge on this but I have done some of this work. It is tough without pics but if it is a clean break you may be able to repair it. In order to get glue into the crack you have to spread the crack apart. This could be dangerous and may cause problems with the fretboard. Without pics it is hard to say. I hope this helps.
When I look at a guitar to buy I look for very long grain running up the length of the neck. The longer the grain the stronger the neck will be. This subject gets very involved and there are many opinions on it but it is my opinion that long even grain from one end of the neck to the other is what is strongest. Wherever you have a short span of grain you have a weak spot. I think this is the problem with your friends guitar but without looking at the neck I can't be sure but it sounds like it by the way you describe it. If there is short grain at this spot on the neck it may be a problem putting a glue joint there. Sometimes a glue joint can be stronger than the grain but being it is such a short break it may be a problem once it is repaired.

[hubberjub]

Without pictures it's tough to tell. Gibson type guitars are prone to cracks (if not complete breaks) in the neck. Mine was a full break and the repair cost $300 including a respray on the neck. If he can't find anyone who can repair it for less than $100 the repair probably isn't worth it. Mine actually required splicing in a new piece of wood. When this guitar was black you couldn't tell it had been repaired but I have since stripped off the paint and finished it in oil. (The wood filler on the back of the neck is from an unrelated incident.)
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd105/hubberjub/les%20paul/DSCN0354.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd105/hubberjub/les%20paul/DSCN0353.jpg

[Eric]

Without pictures it's tough to tell.
I'll work on getting some pics of it.


If he can't find anyone who can repair it for less than $100 the repair probably isn't worth it.
That's good to know, and I think that's the sort of info I was trying to get.

[M29]

Nice repair Hub:AOK

[hubberjub]

Thanks M29, but this is definitely not my work. Frank Finoccio (formerly of Martin) did the work for me. This was about 12 years ago. At one point there were pictures of my Gibson being repaired on the Martin guitar page.

[Eric]

Update: I guess he took it to GC, they said $200 for the repair, and he bought an identical replacement on the spot.

I was going to give him one of mine, but apparently he didn't like my AL-3100 and decided not to update me with pics or the update from the estimate or anything, so now it's too late. Still trying to come to terms with him hating my favorite guitar -- he must not have know how to use it, right? ;) -- but that's that.

I'm pretty pissed off that an outstretched hand was just spit on and ignored, but there's no rule that there won't be assholes in life. Just adjust your expectations and move on.

[tele911]

Headstock repair isn't to bad of an undertaking.

Here's a step by step I did for a buddy o' mines 1980 LP Custom that he knocked over. From my thread posted over at Mark Wein's

http://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4866

[oldguy]

Update: I guess he took it to GC, they said $200 for the repair, and he bought an identical replacement on the spot.

I was going to give him one of mine, but apparently he didn't like my AL-3100 and decided not to update me with pics or the update from the estimate or anything, so now it's too late. Still trying to come to terms with him hating my favorite guitar -- he must not have know how to use it, right? ;) -- but that's that.

I'm pretty pissed off that an outstretched hand was just spit on and ignored, but there's no rule that there won't be assholes in life. Just adjust your expectations and move on.

I'm really sorry to hear that, Eric. Some people just don't appreciate a good person offering help from their heart. I absolutely love my AL-3000.

Now, if you still feel like giving that AL-3100 away ...............:pancake

[Eric]

I absolutely love my AL-3000.
I'm happy to know there are sane people in the world...

Bottom line is that he got a functioning guitar, and I guess his old one gave up the ghost. That's a pretty decent ending to the story.

If I can get ahold of his old one, maybe I can try some experimentation with neck replacement...

[oldguy]

I'm happy to know there are sane people in the world...

Bottom line is that he got a functioning guitar, and I guess his old one gave up the ghost. That's a pretty decent ending to the story.

If I can get ahold of his old one, maybe I can try some experimentation with neck replacement...

Check out Tele911's link to his repair. It looks great! If you do get ahold of his old one, it might be helpful to you seeing how Tele911 did such a repair.

[Brian Krashpad]

I'm happy to know there are sane people in the world...

Bottom line is that he got a functioning guitar, and I guess his old one gave up the ghost. That's a pretty decent ending to the story.

If I can get ahold of his old one, maybe I can try some experimentation with neck replacement...

Although from the sound of things he'll probably wanna hold onto it for replacement parts, or to part it out on ebay/cl.

[M29]

Eric,

If I can be of any help let me know. I would be interested to see a picture of the break still if you can get one. Being that high up the neck it might be tough to get a good enough gap to inject glue into without making the crack worse. He should probably get the tension off of the neck until something gets done with it.
Here is a thread on an Epi LP of mine I repaired. http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=6106

M

[hubberjub]

I'm happy to know there are sane people in the world...

Bottom line is that he got a functioning guitar, and I guess his old one gave up the ghost. That's a pretty decent ending to the story.

If I can get ahold of his old one, maybe I can try some experimentation with neck replacement...

That would be a great guitar to try to fix. You could learn a lot from a project like that.

[M29]

Eric,

I would try to fix the neck that is on there first and see how it works out. Changing a set neck is a major task.

M

[Duff]

My Epi LP Std ltd ed wine red birdseye just had the snapped neck repaired.

Considering this repair I decided to have a kill switch installed in it.

I'm really looking forward to getting it back and testing out the kill switch. I hope to be able to get some cool use out of the mini toggle kill switch. This LP has the Seymour Duncan hot rodded humbucker set; JB bridge and Jazz neck.

I REALLY watch and take care of my mahogany guitars now that I know just how brittle mahogany is and how easily it can crack and break. I never leave them on a stand or leaning up against things. I always make sure that they are in a secure location where falling or getting knocked over is not easily possible.

[hubberjub]

My Epi LP Std ltd ed wine red birdseye just had the snapped neck repaired.

Considering this repair I decided to have a kill switch installed in it.

I'm really looking forward to getting it back and testing out the kill switch. I hope to be able to get some cool use out of the mini toggle kill switch. This LP has the Seymour Duncan hot rodded humbucker set; JB bridge and Jazz neck.

I REALLY watch and take care of my mahogany guitars now that I know just how brittle mahogany is and how easily it can crack and break. I never leave them on a stand or leaning up against things. I always make sure that they are in a secure location where falling or getting knocked over is not easily possible.


It's not that mahogany is brittle. It's the design of Gibsons neck and headstock.

[Duff]

Maple or definitely longitudinally laminated 5 or more piece necks would seemingly hold up better, I would think. The mahogany is definitely ready to break right there at that headstock if given the slightest chance, which I won't be giving it again.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the kill switch and getting some cool use out of it.

I figure if I am going to tear into the top of a really good guitar it might as well be this one because it has already taken a hit. I'm thinking it will still sound super awesome and will get new life and draw me in with the new kill switch to play with. I hope it is a nice and quiet kill switch with no switch crackle.

Have you heard Gary Moore use that kill switch? Really nice effect.

[Eric]

It's not that mahogany is brittle. It's the design of Gibsons neck and headstock.
How so? Just curious...

[hubberjub]

Gibson necks curve back to increase the angle the strings pass over the nut. Gibson chooses to cut that curve into a single piece of wood instead of doing a scarfed joint. There is a ton of info on the net. Most companies that do this will put glue a second piece of wood for the angled part.

[Duff]

Just got my Epiphone LP Standard wine red birdseye maple top back with the neck repaired and a really nice kill switch installed between the tone and volume switches. I will try to get some pictures posted soon.

The neck snapped right at the curvature location where the neck transitions into the angled back headstock. The only thing holding it together was the bottom screw on the truss cover plate. Very straight grained at the break and about two inches long, if that.

45 dollars for repair and installation of the kill switch. They claim that the repair will last as long as the guitar. The finnesse with which the repair was done may have produced a strong repair but parts of the original break line, at the headstock, are still clearly visible and were not sanded and filled and finish sanded, just painted over with some kind of clear coat or clear glue.

So the headstock finish is painted with a uneven coat of what must have been quite thick clear glue or thick poly. There is a layer of thin black wrap or black paint running about six inches down the back of the neck from the break, and completely covering the back of the break. This is perfectly smooth and finished quite well and will provide for a smooth feeling neck. Just the top of the headstock looks rough.

The guitar has hot rodded Seymour Duncan pickups and the sound is still incredible: it roars. Intonation is good and it plays great. Looks like I was able to salvage the guitar as a player at least at this time.

The kill switch is really neat and is a metal on/off mini toggle with the shaft bevelled on two sides making it easily grabbable to do the interruption fades with.

The LP now carries the strong mark of the craftsman and as such may gain some added warrior status.

A professional repair would have cost 200 and I can't say what it would have looked like when done, but probably a lot better than this. This economy repair is supposed to work and therefore has presumably solved my problem. I'm good with it for now, as long as it holds together as stated by the guitar techs.

My experience tells me to be really careful with mahogany neck guitars and don't leave them on stands or in other places where falling to the floor is possible. Protect them because they are just waiting to break if given the chance, with almost no force greater than regular day to day use.

If you care about your mahogany neck guitar keep an eye on it and protect it from falling over or falling off of things.

[hubberjub]

Duff, yes mahogany is a softer wood than maple but that is not the main reason that they break. Here's a link to the Les Paul forum with some explanations. There's a ton on info if you google it.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/4725-how-not-break-your-headstock.html

[Unknown Fan]

The dealer where I purchased my Club King RT told me he came out of the back to find a Warhawk II laying in the floor with the neck snapped.

He didn't know who was the culprit, but sent it back to Reverend to have it repaired.

The Warhawks have a set net like Gibsons, so I am anxious to see how it comes out and what they had to do to repair it.

[Duff]

Right Hubberjub. I know what the idea is and thanks for the information.

I am thinking, however, that this weak point has been known about for a very long time and that it could easily be corrected without impacting on the unique sound of a Gibson.

I would thing weight relieving and chambering in particular would have a much more pronounced effect on sound than modifying the construction of the neck by using a different type of joint, joint reinforcement, or laminating the neck longitudinally like you see on a lot of basses and other neck thru guitars. This way there would be no weak grain pattern at the bend point where the headstock angles back.

I'm being etra careful with all my mahogany neck guitars and any guitar that has an angled back headstock. My Michael Kelly Patriot Custom has a one piece neck designed the same way. I can see where jointed necks made of three or more pieces with joint reinforcement would be superior designs.