What's the best transparent amplification for a cheap-o like me?

[Eric]

Back with another question...

What do all of you recommend for transparent amplification? I try to do all of my tone stuff before the amplifier, so that all I need is something that's loud enough and has sufficient headroom. I've been wondering what sort of solution would be best for this.

I know Tech 21 makes those power engine jobbies (http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html), and they do exactly what I stated above, so that's one option. I don't imagine I'll ever need much over maybe 30 watts in a guitar amp, since it will just be a glorified monitor for my own use -- I want to line out to the house in most cases.

So...any input on this? Some solid state amp? Maybe a powered stage monitor? Keyboard amp? Anyone? Since I'm not demanding much from the amp other than a clean sound, I would think it might be a little cheaper than a comparable amp, but I don't honestly know.

Input appreciated.

Note: I suppose another criteria would be that I'd like it to do a good job of replicating the sound, since I would like the pre-amplifier signal to come through the amplifier as close as possible to the original signal.

[Robert]

It depends on what "stuff" you will be doing before the amp. Some "stuff" may sound best through something like a Tech 21 Power Engine (http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html), some work best through a tube amp.

[Eric]

It depends on what "stuff" you will be doing before the amp.
Fair point. Right now my tone/amp emulator is a Tech 21 Sansamp GT2.

Do you know whether something like a powered stage monitor or keyboard amp would work with a setup like that?

[oldguy]

My gut reaction........... watch for a Crate Powerblock. The Fretter's that grabbed 'em up when they were closing them out seemed to like them.
They seem to go for $125-150 used, you may get one cheaper if you bide your time and watch.

[Eric]

My gut reaction........... watch for a Crate Powerblock. The Fretter's that grabbed 'em up when they were closing them out seemed to like them.
They seem to go for $125-150 used, you may get one cheaper if you bide your time and watch.
Ah, I have heard of those before -- thanks! Seems strange that there's a lack of that sort of stuff out there, but maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places...

[Robert]

The Tech21 Power Engine as mentioned, that should work well I think?

[Eric]

The Tech21 Power Engine as mentioned, that should work well I think?
Agreed, that's definitely one of the main options.

[oldguy]

It's an all-in-one solution @ $300+ for the 60w. version. A powerblock is only a solid state amph, although they are more powerful, and 1/2 to 1/3 the price.
A simple powered monitor speaker might work also.

[Eric]

A simple powered monitor speaker might work also.
Yeah, I've looked at some powered stage wedges, many of which are in the same ballpark price-wise as the power engine, though lower-powered ones (<150w) can be cheaper. It's not like I'd need some massively powerful monitor.

Considering the powerblock is just a solid state amp, would any SS amp work well for this application? Would it be best to plug into the effect return if I did this, since I'd just be looking to use the power amp section?

[oldguy]

Yeah, I've looked at some powered stage wedges, many of which are in the same ballpark price-wise as the power engine, though lower-powered ones (>150w) can be cheaper. It's not like I'd need some massively powerful monitor.

Considering the powerblock is just a solid state amp, would any SS amp work well for this application? Would it be best to plug into the effect return if I did this, since I'd just be looking to use the power amp section?

Not being a smart-*** here. Exactly what are you going to run into this setup (guitar, effects, drum machine, modelers, etc.) and what are you running it out to (house PA)?
Because what I'm reading into this is whatever you're running, you just want clean power to amplify it, period. No tone-shaping, EQ, nothing. Just volume.
If so, then yes, a quality SS power amp should do it. The power engine has a few features you might not need to pay for. And if you run a seperate cabinet for your speakers, if one component (blown amp, blown speaker) goes bye/bye, you can get up and running replacing only that component.
These are just a couple things to think of before making a decision.
I've known people to run a modeler into a powered mixing board, and out through the PA and monitors and get a really good sound, no amp required, for instance, but I'm thinking you want to do something different.
Hope that helps.

[Eric]

Because what I'm reading into this is whatever you're running, you just want clean power to amplify it, period. No tone-shaping, EQ, nothing. Just volume.

If so, then yes, a quality SS power amp should do it.
That's exactly right. I'm happy with the tone from guitar -> effects board -> Tech 21 GT2, so I want that to go to the house PA. I just want something for my own personal monitoring that won't add anything to the tone, and that will be reflective of what's coming out of the house. Other than maybe some mild EQ, the house won't add anything to the tone in terms of color, compression, etc.


I've known people to run a modeler into a powered mixing board, and out through the PA and monitors and get a really good sound, no amp required, for instance, but I'm thinking you want to do something different.
I think I essentially want to do what you describe here. I just want my own monitor that I can control, and it doesn't necessarily have to have everyone else in it. In other words, this power amp will be there just for me, and not really part of the signal that's amplified out to the house; that will be taken care of by the house amplification.

[Eric]

My gut reaction........... watch for a Crate Powerblock. The Fretter's that grabbed 'em up when they were closing them out seemed to like them.
They seem to go for $125-150 used, you may get one cheaper if you bide your time and watch.
I did find one of these for $75 on CL, so that's an option.

[markb]

Don't discount older Roland Cubes (not the modelers) that have a socket bypassing the preamp (power amp in or something?). They came in guitar, bass and keyboard models. Any would do the job and they're cheap and tough. If you're thinking Tech21 you can bypass the Trademark's preamp by using the effects return. A used TM60 might even be cheaper than a new PE60. You'll need a cabinet with the Powerblock.

[kiteman]

Pretty much the return jacks on some amps will serve as a power amp. Your pedals will be the pre-amps.

What you want is a flat response power amp.

[Eric]

Pretty much the return jacks on some amps will serve as a power amp. Your pedals will be the pre-amps.

What you want is a flat response power amp.
OK cool -- thanks. I'm guessing I'd want SS for that, right?

I have had some clipping/noise issues in at least one effect return before; is there anything I should look for in the effects loop to make sure there isn't a problem like that?

[kiteman]

OK cool -- thanks. I'm guessing I'd want SS for that, right?

I have had some clipping/noise issues in at least one effect return before; is there anything I should look for in the effects loop to make sure there isn't a problem like that?

Like I said, on some amps there's no control in the return jack, just straight power amp on full. All your controls will be on the pedals.

As for SS or not, matter of taste but for tubes you'd want headroom and for SS plenty of power to avoid clipping.

[Eric]

This is not exactly what I need, but in looking at stuff in this same category, I found this (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/22Caliber/). Anybody ever try one?

[kiteman]

That's an interesting option. I'm tempted to try one myself. :)

18V at 1.5 amps sounds pretty heavy duty. Though it says power amp it doesn't say it's without a pre-amp. Doesn't even mention what inputs it takes. I think it's a full amp.