Dirt Pedal Ideas

[marnold]

As many of you know, I haven't been overly pleased with the distortion tones I've been getting from my AD30VT with a Ragin Cajun, although I love the cleans. In an ideal world I'd get a Blackstar or Jet City combo and my dirt needs would be filled. That's not going to be in the cards for some time. After doing a bunch of perusing and listening online, I'm looking at the following three pedals. I'm looking at 80s metal levels of distortion, not necessarily teh br00talz. Note: I cannot find any of these locally, so I'd be buying them sight unseen (ear unheard?).

Keeley DS-1 (http://www.robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=10) It seems like every one of my heroes had one of these back in the day (Lynch, Vai, Satch). I like the sound from the clips I've heard. The problem is that it is $129, for a pedal that sells unmodded for $39.

Tech 21 British (http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/characterseries_PG.html) Basically every Marshall in a box from Bluesbreaker to JCM 800. This pedal is by far the most flexible of any of the ones in the list. It also can be used as a DI for recording, something my AD30VT doesn't do well. The problem is that you can't defeat the speaker emulation (probably could be worked around) and the fact that it is the most expensive of these pedals at $149.

DigiTech Hardwire SC-2 Valve Distortion (http://www.digitech.com/products/Hardwire/HW_ValveDistortion.php) This one also tries to do the "Marshall in a box" kind of thing. There's a Crunch/Saturated switch that goes between "standard" distortion and a more scooped tone. It appears to be built like a tank (although I wouldn't worry about any of these pedals in that regard). It's also by far the cheapest at $99.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I might just be able to get one of these for my birthday next month. I like the Keeley from a "my heroes used it" standpoint, but the DigiTech may be even more flexible for $30 less. The Tech 21 offering is very tempting for its DI capabilities. I tend to change my mind with the phase of the moon.

I also looked at a Metal Muff, but it seemed a bit too over-the-top for what I was looking for. I also looked at the Danelectro Cool Cat Metal. That one would be cheapest of all, but I think I'd have a hard time dealing with the cramped concentric pots.

[duhvoodooman]

:what I am WOUNDED that you wouldn't mention one of THESE (http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/RRv2.htm), Rev. :cry: With 6 clipping settings and two EQ voicings, it's got 12 different distortion flavors on tap. $145, including the Ruetz EQ mod switch--still $5 cheaper than the Tech 21.

[sunvalleylaw]

I would go Rabid Rodent over the DS-1 or Digitech, and weigh the Rodent vs. the Tech 21 considering the DI capability vs. what the Rodent does. You have essentially 12 different Distortion and OD sounds with the Rodent. Check out Robert's demo and I think Blaze has one out there too. I did a review with demos too, but my playing doesn't show it off like those other guys.

EDIT: Heh heh, I see DVM and I were working on posts at the same time.

[Robert]

Have you seen this? Pretty fat high gain distortion, and a just plain awesome tone me thinks.

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[marnold]

I'll have to re-watch that video at lunch. Rats always sounded too fuzzy to me. I looked more at the BYOC Shredder, but I haven't been able to find a ton of clips on it. The ones I did hear didn't leave a lasting impression on me.

[sumitomo]

The Rodent get's my vote,I use mine all the time and it can deliver the dirt that you desire!Sumi:D :french

[Commodore 64]

Dirt, Fuzz, Distortion, Overdrive, Muff...I can't keep all this straight.

How is dirt different from fuzz, compression, distortion or overdrive?

[duhvoodooman]

"Dirt" is just a generic term for distortion, so any of these qualify as "dirt pedals", since they will distort the original clean signal, though to different extents and with a different tonal character to the distortion. Compression is a mode of signal processing whereby the natural "peaks" and "valleys" in the signal volume get compressed together and evened out. This can be done to a clean signal (Country players do this a LOT) or a distorted one. For the other terms, check out what effects guru R.G. Keen has to say:

http://www.geofex.com/effxfaq/fxterms.htm

[tunghaichuan]

My own personal preference for 80s metal tones is the Washburn Soloist aka Artec Soloist pedal. If you shop around you can get them for about $20-$30 plus shipping.

The pedal itself is made in Korea, and is very well made despite what the low price might indicate.

http://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/206319.jpg http://tennis2win.com/ebay/Washburn%20Pedals/Soloist%20Distort.jpg

They are the same pedal, only the graphics are different.

To me it sounds like a high-gain modded Plexi amp, YMMV, but it isn't that big of an investment if you don't like it.

[marnold]

This guy's video keeps me thinking about the Tech 21:
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There's a longer version available too.

He also has one of the DigiTech:
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He's got one of the BYOC Shredder that is the only decent YouTube clip of it I've seen.

[Matt]

I'd probably say go Rabid Rodent- I built a version from BYOC without DVM's mods, and it is still very very versitile. Very fat sounding disto, can be pushed to be a fuzz sound and the overdrive settings are very tasty.

Having said that, I'm a big Tech21 fan. I've got a Dual Drive (now discontinued and replaced by something similar) and its a very good sounding pedal (and it is an actual pedal as opposed to their 'sansamp' series of DI stuff). It basically has a volume, tone and two gain knobs. One is Class A, the other class A/B, so you can get Fender/Marshall tones with the Class A/B and Vox with the class A, or, as I like to do, blend then to get an awesome sound. It also reacts like a good valve amp and responds to dynamics brilliantly. Look into them if you get a chance.

[marnold]

I gotta say, I listened to Robert's clips again. Nothing against him, his playing, or DVM's 1337 soldering skillz, but there's something about a Rat (even a very flexible, well-trained Rat) that just doesn't do it for me. Not sure why. Just is.

[Robert]

Marnold, can you give an example of what that "dream tone" is that you are looking for? Perhaps us fretters can try and imitate it with the gear we have.

[marnold]

Marnold, can you give an example of what that "dream tone" is that you are looking for? Perhaps us fretters can try and imitate it with the gear we have.
Well, as you can imagine that when it comes to high-gain, I'm looking for something Lynchian. Think of "Mr. Scary" from Dokken's "Back for the Attack." Or "Love Power from the Mama Head" and "Tierra del Fuego" (the electric parts, anyway) from his "Sacred Groove" solo album. I realize that his rhythm parts are at least double-tracked. I'm looking for a clear, bright, piercing lead tone--nothing fuzzy or raspy. I'm not looking at a ton and a half of gain--just typical 80s metal (Lynch, Rhoads, et al). I want pinch harmonics to scream, not sound like high-pitched raspberries. I'd also like some gain-induced sustain, something that my AD30VT doesn't seem to do very well. I realize that a floating Floyd will kill some sustain. I don't want it compressed to oblivion, just a sustain boost.

For those recordings, I know he frequently used various Marshall amphs and a Soldano SLO, often with a Keeley DS-1 in front of it.

As far as bluesy tones go, I really like what that guy got with his humbucker-equipped Floyd Rose guitar and the Bluesbreaker settings on that Tech 21 British. Very tasty. That is not as vital to me as the higher gain ones would be.

[Robert]

Marnold, you'll have to remember that Lynch and Rhoads used big Marshalls cranked up. The amps were already delivering lots of overdrive/distortion, and a gain pedal added that little extra to deliver soaring lead tones. My 0.4 watt Mack or the AD30VT can of course not get anywhere close to that kind of air moving. Keep this in mind when deciding on a pedal. The amp would be way more important than what pedal you use, but then again, I realize you can't play a cranked up Marshall at home... ;)

[bcdon]

Have you checked out the Fullbore Metal by Dunlop? The latest
GW had a video demoing it and here is another:

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[duhvoodooman]

Whoa!! :eek: My guess is that theat pedal produces w-a-a-a-a-y more gain than the Rev is looking for.

[marnold]

Have you checked out the Fullbore Metal by Dunlop? The latest
GW had a video demoing it and here is another:
I really like the basic tone of that pedal, but DVM is right. It has more gain than I'm really looking for. It is a pretty awesome little pedal otherwise.

[marnold]

Marnold, you'll have to remember that Lynch and Rhoads used big Marshalls cranked up. The amps were already delivering lots of overdrive/distortion, and a gain pedal added that little extra to deliver soaring lead tones. My 0.4 watt Mack or the AD30VT can of course not get anywhere close to that kind of air moving. Keep this in mind when deciding on a pedal. The amp would be way more important than what pedal you use, but then again, I realize you can't play a cranked up Marshall at home... ;)
Right. I was just watching the DVD of the Lynch seminar in Green Bay 1.5 years ago. He was playing through a Marshall half-stack which was by no means cranked, but it sounded pretty sweet nevertheless. Obviously more than a small part of that is his playing.

I played through a Blackstar a while back and that immediately brought a smile to my face. Of course, when I saw that they upped their prices, that smile went away. If I had $500 to spend it obviously would be better spent on a new amph. That's not going to be in the cards for a while. Even that or a Jet City wouldn't be pushing that kind of air, but the Jet City at least would have a goodly number of pre-amp stages to crank and get that sustain, perhaps complimented by my OD2.

I guess that's another thing that has me leaning toward the Tech 21--it seems to do about as reasonable fake of a tube amph as you can from a little analog pedal.

[Robert]

If I were you, I'd save up for a bigger amp, perhaps sell some gear to afford it. More watts give you a much better low end, even at lower volumes, in my experience. When you have the basic good amp tone happening, almost any dirt pedal will give you that high gain tone I think you are looking for. Unfortunately, that type of amp is hard to find under $500.

[marnold]

If I were you, I'd save up for a bigger amp, perhaps sell some gear to afford it. More watts give you a much better low end, even at lower volumes, in my experience. When you have the basic good amp tone happening, almost any dirt pedal will give you that high gain tone I think you are looking for. Unfortunately, that type of amp is hard to find under $500.
That's exactly it. I really have no spare gear to sell. Nor any spare money. Kind of a bad combo. The only thing that I could really sell is my EX-7 and a) I don't want to and b) I wouldn't get bubkus for it.

[Eric]

Tech 21 British (http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/characterseries_PG.html) Basically every Marshall in a box from Bluesbreaker to JCM 800. This pedal is by far the most flexible of any of the ones in the list. It also can be used as a DI for recording, something my AD30VT doesn't do well. The problem is that you can't defeat the speaker emulation (probably could be worked around) and the fact that it is the most expensive of these pedals at $149.
What is it about this pedal that makes it work as a DI for recording? It looks the same as every other pedal...

[marnold]

What is it about this pedal that makes it work as a DI for recording? It looks the same as every other pedal...
It doesn't have an XLR-out but it does have speaker emulation so it sounds liked a mic'd cab.

[Matt]

What is it about this pedal that makes it work as a DI for recording? It looks the same as every other pedal...

As Marnold said, it has an emulated cab output. The reason for this is because they are designed to replace an amp (hence being in the SansAmp range) and go straight to the sound board. The are remarkably good at responding to dynamic playing etc, just like a valve amp should.

The only downside to them as far as I can see is the lack of something big behind you when you play live!

[marnold]

I've almost completely decided to go with the Hardwire pedal. I really like the cleans on my AD30VT and I also really like how my Cool Cat Fuzz works with it. I'm hoping for a similar "revelation" with this one. I've got a conference in the southern part of the state tomorrow and Monday that will have me driving right by the closest GC. They're holding one for me. And my birthday just happens to be in a week and a half . . .

[Robert]

Why not the cheaper Cool Cat Metal or Metal II?

[Ch0jin]

Nobody mentioned the old Boss MT-2 Metal Zone?

I still love jamming with mine from time to time because, so far at least, I haven't built a pedal that captures that massive, massive gain and compression sound like the Metal Zone.

[marnold]

Robert, The Cool Cats I addressed in my original post. The controls aren't an issue with my Fuzz, but the Metal (which is the one I'd be interested in, not the Metal II) has two concentric pots. A lot of people have complained about their usability, then throw in my lack of fingertips . . . My Fuzz isn't too bad in that regard, but it's still a bit of a PITA when it's plugged into my 1-Spot.

Ch0jin, the Metal Zone is a good one, that's for sure. I'm looking for something less br00tal. If I was going for teh br00talz, though, I'd probably get an MXR Fullbore Metal.

[marnold]

I got it today! I was pretty wiped out after conference, but I got to mess with it a bit. The high and low tone controls are active, so a little adjustment goes a long way. I had heard online that the saturated switch scoops the mids but I don't think it really does. It does add another gain stage which is a nice feature. In general, it sounds very Marshally. I tried the Metal one briefly too, but the distortion was more than I would typically use. Still sounded pretty sweet.

[BigBadWolf1171]

im suprised no one said ibanez's tube king. it comes with an 12AX7 tube in it and noise supressor built in. i first used an MT2 pedal, sounded like a chainsaw running on nitrous. very thin and "death metal" sounding. i ordered the tube king out of feening for gear one day and i cant tell you how much better it was then the MT2.i actually gave the boss pedal away.Now i run the tube king thru the preamp not the fx loop, . not that it sounded bad thru the loop, just better thru the preamp. it turned my SS peavey xxl into an absolute beast. at its lowest setting it'll nail any 80's metal or rock, with the Drive on 5 and the Level on 1 it comes as close to a mesa triple as ive ever heard from a SS amp.