Looper pedals?

[Robert]

Anyone has experience with looper pedals? BOSS has one, what other alternatives are there and which would you recommend? I have never tried one but it seems like it would be fun to have one. :cool:

Tell me more about what you can do with these units. If you have clips of examples, please post! :DR

[Spudman]

I've had the Boss Loop Station RC20-XL for quite a while now and I will say that it has become the most valuable piece of practice equipment besides the guitar and amp that I have.

For instance: When I come up with a spontaneous idea while sitting around by myself all I have to do is tap the pedal and capture whatever I came up with. From there I can make a loop of it and add layers to it. My ideas don't get lost any more. It's great for creating themes for tunes.

This summer I met a few guys that do solo gigs with them as well. There are some wonderful things that can be done with them.

The Boss has multiple inputs so capturing a mic or some other sound source is possible too. Phrases can be stored and recalled as well. One player used an acoustic and would thump the body to simulate a kick drum-sample that-then throw on a snare drum that he had miced-sample that-then play a guitar line-sample that-and then live sing and play riffs over it. Instant groove. The pedal has the ability to add or subtract phrases. He would turn off a phrase for a song segment then re-sample when it came time to add it back in. Very clever.

The pedal has few limitations for creativity in my opinion. I'm still exploring and am rarely dissatisfied with my results. I am glad that I bought one and will probably never get rid of it.

[tot_Ou_tard]

A looper sounds like a great idea for learning to play! Any other suggestions besides the Boss that Spuds mentioned?

[Spudman]

Digitech makes the Jam Man Looper pedal too. It has a some features that the Boss RC20 XL pedal doesn't have. It's pretty divided as to which is better.
I've included links from each company so that you can compare if you like.

http://www.digitech.com/products/JamMan/JamMan.htm


To compete with the Jam Man Boss has a new looper pedal that will hold 15 years of samples. Just kidding. It's quite a bit though. It also has a lot more functions than the RC20 XL or the Digitech. The features kind of blow the Digitech away but the price is hefty.

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/RC-50/specs.html

The good thing about having these new pedals on the market is that the older ones are now available more cheaply either used or new. If you can live with the limitations of the older pedals then you can score a pretty good deal on one which makes trying it out a lot less painful. I bought one only after seeing other players using them, listening to them and asking them questions about them. Some folks might not have that opportunity.

Still, if you are a stay at home/play alone player get one! It will improve your timing, give you new ideas galore and allow you save those ideas. For a reasonable price you'll get an instant jamming partner who only gets as buzzed as you do, always shows up, stays in tune if you do, never takes a break and won't argue with you or steal your girlfriend. Priceless!:D

[tot_Ou_tard]

Looking around I see that Boss has a new (cheaper and smaller) version called the RC2
http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/RC-2/index.html
with 16 minutes of record time.

[Leonidas]

I've been looking into a looper for a while, just haven't been able to justify the money for it yet. Theres a somewhat local musician in my area that uses a looper and does a one-man-band kind of reggae-blues thing. He is phenominal, and and has truly mastered effects/looping imo, all with an acoustic guitar. He would play a drumline, bass, some guitar rhythm, and loop them overtop each other, then solo/sing atop it all. His name is George Wesley (http://www.georgewesley.com), if you would want to check him out.

The Digitech JamMan was the pedal I had been looking at, but the Rc20 can be had for a much cheaper price, and may be all that one would really need. I did a quick search on eBay and found that the JamMan could be had for around 250, and the Boss for well under 200. Some single-effect pedals cost that much! :)

I'll have to put this on my list of "things I want but don't have enough money yet".... :D

[Robert]

I was reading up on these things yesterday. The new BOSS RC-2 ($189) has some drum grooves built in, that would be an awesome feature to have. The Jam-Man or the RC20XL don't have that as far as I understand.

You can store your Jam-Man loops on a memory card and put them on your computer. That is cool. If you came up with a great groove you can just transfer it to your computer. Sounds easy-peasy. Spudman, can the RC-20XL do this?

The RC-2 seems really interesting, although the price for one is around the same a a used RC-20XL.

[Spudman]

The RC 20XL will allow you to load anything you want into it via the mini stereo jack.

It comes with a sample CD and some awesome backing tracks already loaded into it. So yes you can put whatever you want into it. Want to jam over a Martin Luther King Jr. speech? Just load it in. Got your favorite 8 bar (longer or shorter) groove with full band accompaniment. Just load it in. You can do it from the computer or a CD player or even an mp3 player.

When I took mine to out of town gigs I used my mp3 player to load stuff. Way versatile machine.

Going the other direction:
The XL does not have a SD card option. You would have to transfer the file into the computer as a WAV the old fashioned way, line it in and press record.

[tot_Ou_tard]

A 2006 Summer NAMM video for the RC2 can be found at
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=3255

[Spudman]

Zen here is zee most pwoaful looper pedal in zee worlt.
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=3266

Ziz is zo fun to vatch.

[Robert]

Hmm, I think I have narrowed it down to the RC-20XL or the Digitech Jam-Man. Which one would you pick? The Jam-Man has better sampling rate and therefore better sound on the loops, from what I've read.

[Leonidas]

Ok I just thought of a potential problem with using one of these, unless I'm just completely missing somthing (which I probably am). If you were to connect this like any other pedal, it would be between the guitar and amp. Say you wanted to record a clean rhythm, then loop it and play distorted over top, using the amps distortion. Wouldn't this also make that previously recorded clean rhythm dirty?

Am I missing something here? I hope I am...

[Spudman]

Leo

Nope. You got it right, but you just don't do that. Instead use an effect pedal to change the lead sound if you like. You don't use the amp's distortion channel.

I put mine at the end of the effect chain - play a clean or dirty part - sample it - play a clean or dirty part over it.

Or...

You could use two amps and a loop selector A/B switch to have the Loop Station play using ONLY that specific amplifier and then switch to the other amp for other parts.
That is a bit too complicated for my tastes.

[warren0728]

You got it right, but you just don't do that. Instead use an effect pedal to change the lead sound if you like. You don't use the amp's distortion channel.
but if you use an effect pedal, won't it affect the loop sound as well (assuming the loop pedal is in the same chain as the effects pedal)?

example: create clean sound with loop...then want to play lead on top of it through amp....the loop pedal must still be in the pedal chain and when you stomp a bad monkey (or whatever) won't that effect the loop sound....

ww

[Spudman]

No it doesn't effect the currently playing loop if it is the last pedal in the chain.

It just plays what it captured (only) right to the amp. Your guitar signal will go through it while it is playing. The looped material is unaffected.

[warren0728]

very interesting.....

[Leonidas]

Ok, I understand... I just didn't even think of that, I usually get all my distortion/drive from my amp...

[Tone2TheBone]

Can someone explain in layman's terms how a looper functions? Someone keeps bothering me to get one and I don't have a clue as to how they work. I have seen demos on them but would rather hear it from people I know. :)

LAYMAN'S terms now.

[Spudman]

Someone keeps bothering me to get one and I don't have a clue as to how they work.
LAYMAN'S terms now.

Someone...hummm.

They record what ever you input into them between the first pedal activation and the second activation. ie. Stomp the first time - starts record, stomp the second time - stops record. Then the pedal will most likely figure out the meter (beats per minute) and adjust the length of the recorded part to fit accordingly.

Next - while the first phrase is playing you can then 'overdub' another part on top of the first one. Then-you can overdub another on top of those two etc. etc.

Each subsequent phrase is captured the same way as the first. What ever is played between the two pedal stomps is what gets recorded.

The other thing they do is help you to play better, be more creative and have fun. Oh, while your phrases are playing you can set your guitar down and go get a cup of coffee, beer, or tea and pick up where you left off when you come back. The pedal won't erase your looped masterpiece until you either turn it off or change to another patch position. You can still 'save' the piece into the unit's memory for later recall.

Does that help.

[Tone2TheBone]

Someone...hummm.

They record what ever you input into them between the first pedal activation and the second activation. ie. Stomp the first time - starts record, stomp the second time - stops record. Then the pedal will most likely figure out the meter (beats per minute) and adjust the length of the recorded part to fit accordingly.

Next - while the first phrase is playing you can then 'overdub' another part on top of the first one. Then-you can overdub another on top of those two etc. etc.

Each subsequent phrase is captured the same way as the first. What ever is played between the two pedal stomps is what gets recorded.

The other thing they do is help you to play better, be more creative and have fun. Oh, while your phrases are playing you can set your guitar down and go get a cup of coffee, beer, or tea and pick up where you left off when you come back. The pedal won't erase your looped masterpiece until you either turn it off or change to another patch position. You can still 'save' the piece into the unit's memory for later recall.

Does that help.

Spudman - Yes that does help. Can I loop an entire 12 bar blues progression and store that? If so then I think you might be able to talk me into it for certain. :)

[Robert]

Get one Tone, I am getting one too! I think I'll get the RC-20XL. Seems to do the job well. I think I can have a lot of fun with that thing when I'm doing guitar video stuff...

[Tone2TheBone]

Rob - I'm thinking of it. I'd just like to be able to store one entire blues progression kinda like a song that never ends with the I, IV and V. Even if I can "sample" the progression that would be cool to jam along with for fun and practice. Doesn't the boss pedal model have drum samples that you can use too and play along with within the loop? If I can do 12 bar with it with drums I want one.

[Robert]

I think the RC-2 have drum patterns, the RC-20XL don't. Both have 16 minutes of recording time, should be enough for a blues, eh?

[Spudman]

You can do 12 bar, 16 bar, 32 bar, Swede's bar, whatever you want WITH drums. They are on the CD that comes with the RC20 XL. You just load them in.

Plus...start the looper with backing drums playing - record a blues bass pattern - stick a rhythm guitar on top of it - at bar 8 add a 6 note lead phrase - when bar 8 returns add a harmony to the 6 note lead. Let play and jam on!

PS. If you get a used one without the CD PM me.;)

[Leonidas]

Damn, this is sounding GOOOOOD. For someone like me who plays by himself, that would be fantastic!

You guys are not good for my wallet. :mad:

[Spudman]

Damn, this is sounding GOOOOOD. For someone like me who plays by himself, that would be fantastic!

You guys are not good for my wallet. :mad:

Dude. Join the club. We aren't even good for argh own wallets. It's a buyarghs club not a forum.

For me going without the loopargh now would drive me nuts. I'd probably end up in anothargh band or something. It really takes the edge off of not having othargh musicians around to play with when you want.

What happens when I'm playing it when everyone is home is that I'll get a good loop going and I'll be riffing along to it with my head down, and then I'll look up and the girls are dancing to it. No smoke, no drunks and no seedy bar owner, just my very own groupies with their groove on. Kinda nice.:)

[Lev]

Is it a good idea to put drums through a guitar amp? I have a Zoom G2 thing that has a drum machine but I never switch it on coz I'm scared a booming bass drum may be a bit much for my amp - might be ok on a transistor amp but I'm not too sure about tubes.

Any idea's or am I just being over cautious?

I got into looper pedals quite a while back (before the boss models were available, I think). I have an Akai Headrush pedal which gives me 28 seconds -which is soooo annoying coz it's just too damn short - I end up playing everything really fast to fit into the 28 seconds. :eek: 16 minutes sounds great - I may have too upgrade!!

[tot_Ou_tard]

Each subsequent phrase is captured the same way as the first. What ever is played between the two pedal stomps is what gets recorded.

The Boss loopers have an undo function where you can remove one of the layers. I think you can also put it back in later if you change your mind.


Get one Tone, I am getting one too! I think I'll get the RC-20XL. Seems to do the job well. I think I can have a lot of fun with that thing when I'm doing guitar video stuff...
So why'd you choose the RC20XL over the Jam Man Robert?

[Lev]

found an interesting rc-20 demo on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_tXI4GyFZw

[Robert]

Tot, I don't really know which one would be better. Either or should be fine. The Boss has a reverse mode, might be cool. The Boss seems to go for less on eBay.

[Tone2TheBone]

......What happens when I'm playing it when everyone is home is that I'll get a good loop going and I'll be riffing along to it with my head down, and then I'll look up and the girls are dancing to it. No smoke, no drunks and no seedy bar owner, just my very own groupies with their groove on. Kinda nice.:)

Dang I'd be a god at our little porch jam sessions we do every so often. I'm gettin' one!

[Tone2TheBone]

I was going to pm you Spud about a question I have but I figured to put it here so that other's may draw from your well spring of knowledge Master Spud.

EDITED: I apologize for bringing this up again after reading previous posts about it. RTFM eh! Anyway I will still leave my post up because I would like to address the bass guitar issue while using the looper......

Question: Well lemme say it this way. Using a loop pedal...do you run the loop pedal in line with your guitar as you would a regular effects pedal...into the same amp? If this is the case then how would the drum loops come out on the same amp if you happen to have a looper that incorporates drum loops? I guess my question is, wouldn't you have to run the amp clean?

With this in mind...what about looping bass guitar parts using the same clean guitar amp? Would that be too much for one amp to handle? What about recording guitar parts that are overdriven? I suppose you'd have to use an OD pedal for those parts right? All run through the same amp? Ideally I guess it would be better to run everything through a PA? Have I asked more than one question? haha

Ok your turn. :)

[Spudman]

Jeepers. Just go get one. Ha ha.:)

Yes you play all that through your amp. Now AMP can be whatever amplifies your sound so it's up to you. I've seen acoustic players using small PA heads and speakers to do it, and I've also seen videos of electric players doing what I do and that is playing it all through my guitar amp.

You may notice on the video links in this thread that nobody is playing loudly. No reason to. There is plenty of sound once you get a bunch of loops going. Check out the Boss web site for demos videos. Also, when players use a looper in a band situation, ala Trey Anastasio, there are no bass or drums being looped.

Since it seems like you still have questions I suggest that you go to a music store, get a guitar, a bass, a Loop Station, and a distortion box, set them beside you and go to work. See what you think. It's not that complicated.

Looping all these instruments is a great lesson in mixing. You have to play the instrument being looped at the level that you want it in the mix. There is no playing then grabbing a fader to change that instrument level. This is a really helpful lesson on learning to play in a band as well. You have to learn to blend.

[Tone2TheBone]

Jeepers. Just go get one. Ha ha.:)




I will in November! GC says they're coming out then. I like buying locally. Meanwhile I picked up a Hot Head Distortion pedal to try out...figured it would give me more leeway than the Bad Monkey in the loop scenario in case I want more edge.

I understand about levels. Good point you made. I'm really interested in experimenting with the bass using the pedal and then layering some guitars over that with some drum in the background. We'll see. Hey why don't you do us a sample Spud so we can hear for ourselves. :) I'd like to see one of us around here do one.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Also, when players use a looper in a band situation, ala Trey Anastasio, there are no bass or drums being looped.

I never expected Spudz to mention Trey!

[Spudman]

I never expected Spudz to mention Trey!

Sorry. It won't happen again. NOT. The guy is an amazingly good guitarist. Too bad his songwriting skill didn't survive past Phish.

[tot_Ou_tard]

Sorry. It won't happen again. NOT. The guy is an amazingly good guitarist.
I am in complete agreement!

[Spudman]

There are plenty of Phish bootleg recordings around the web and their official recordings too usually have Trey doing some looping. He is a good artist to check out to see how to use a looper live. I believe he uses a Boomerang looper.

[Leonidas]

I agree Trey is a great guitarist! I had the honor of seeing him (Trey and Friends) live this past summer along with Phil Lesh and Friends, which he sat in on most of the tunes. Great show!

[Spudman]

Here is a little video "How To" using a looping pedal from bassist Steve Lawson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmCVbp_sxl0&mode=related&search=

[tot_Ou_tard]

If you had a guitar with synth access, piezos, & magnetics you could be a freakin' symphony.

It looks like I'm gonna get a looper for Christmas. As a beginning gitfiddle abuser, with noone to play with, I need this so I can go in the basement and play with myself all night! :D

[Spudman]

For some reason I thought you, ahem, did that already.:D LMAO

They sure are fun. I'm getting alot of ideas lately for how to use mine with a delay, A/B switch, percussion, etc. It's impossible to get a band gig in town these days but I can always do a solo thing with a looper. It's just a matter of working up some material.

[Robert]

Here's a GP article about looper pedals - http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=6&storycode=14246

[Robert]

Hey, you gotta check this guy out! I had heard about him before, but never actually heard him play. He kicks butt! Guthrie Govan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4CJPFgpuMA

[Lev]

Love Guthrie - this my favorite clip of him and Ron 'Bunblefoot' Thal (now of Guns and Roses) jamming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76TQUY4sIF0

[Justaguyin_nc]

if your getting the GAS from all this looper talk (as I have) you can find a FREE looping program for Windows to see if you really like loopers or not..or to hold you over till you buy a jamman..:)

Ambiloop actually works and has some nice features.. the usergroup for it is available here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ambiloop/

The Homepage is here: http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/index.html

Try it..it's free...

[Robert]

Anyone here tried both the Boss RC20-XL unit and the Digitech JamMan? I have narrowed it down to one or the other. Both get good reviews.

The JamMan costs a bit more. It has an undo feature which seems like a cool idea. It doesn't have reverse, but I am wondering how important that really is. I don't know why I would want to play my loops in reverse.

[SuperSwede]

I don't know why I would want to play my loops in reverse.

Dude, check out this groovy van. And then tell me again that you dont need reverse loops :D
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Flower-Power_Bus.jpg/250px-Flower-Power_Bus.jpg

[tot_Ou_tard]

Anyone here tried both the Boss RC20-XL unit and the Digitech JamMan? I have narrowed it down to one or the other. Both get good reviews.

The JamMan costs a bit more. It has an undo feature which seems like a cool idea. It doesn't have reverse, but I am wondering how important that really is. I don't know why I would want to play my loops in reverse.
Robert, the RC20-XL also has an undo feature.

So sez Boss:
http://www.bossus.com/index.asp?pg=1&tmp=137

[Spudman]

Both pedals are going to work great. The edge may go to Boss because you can find used ones cheaper. The edge may go back to Digitech because grabbing the media card and popping it into your computer and downloading your loops is pretty cool.

Either way you'll love having the pedal and what you can do with it.

[Lev]

any thoughts on the RC2? - looks like it does everything the RC20XL does (except reverse) but with one pedal switch & for $100 less. Think they hit the shops next week.

http://www.bossus.com/index.asp?pg=1&tmp=158

[Tone2TheBone]

The RC-2 is the unit I am interested in. Hope they come to my town soon.

[warren0728]

it does look interesting....do you know how you transfer your recording to your computer from the pedal?

ww

[tot_Ou_tard]

I'm interested in the added drum machine.

Warren, I find it hard to believe that there were 727 fretters named Warren before you! :p

[warren0728]

Warren, I find it hard to believe that there were 727 fretters named Warren before you! :p

nah....i just kept goofing up while signing up and i got it right on the 728th try!! ;) :D

[Spudman]

Warren, I find it hard to believe that there were 727 fretters named Warren before you! :p

Holy sh**! I blew chunks through my nose when I read this. Tot you have to do a stand up act sometime. Hilarious! :DR :D :R

[Lev]

Warren, looks like there's no USB or MIDI port so I'd imagine you just use the AUX input. Pretty low tech but I still want one!:D

[SuperSwede]

The Boss User Group has a small article called "The art of guitar looping", I thought someone might be interested in reading it.

http://www.bossus.com/bugonline/how_to.asp?art=rc-50

[warren0728]

thanks for the link ss....gonna read it after the kids get off to school!

ww

[tot_Ou_tard]

Someone on the gear page said that Boomerang will be coming out with a new looper in a coupla' months. He got that info via email from someone at boomerang. No info on their website yet.

Spudz: I would do a stand up act, but I'm afraid of all the nose chunks blowing by!

[Tim]

I can't keep up with the videos. Has this one been played? He starts at the beging and shows it all. Great video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ-V-Kd7o38

Also for you B string benders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUAULCawbMs&mode=related&search=

[Tone2TheBone]

I always wig out anytime I see videos of people stomping on effects pedals with their naked toes......*shudders* Put some shoes on for crying out loud people are looking at you!!!

Cool looping....can't wait to get one for meself. :)

[tot_Ou_tard]

I can't keep up with the videos. Has this one been played? He starts at the beging and shows it all. Great video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ-V-Kd7o38

Also for you B string benders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUAULCawbMs&mode=related&search=
Tres cool! I love that B-bender!

I looks like a microphone would be a fun thing to have with a looper. You make do rythmic scatting like looper girl.

That bass sitting on some sort of stand so he just wanders over and play a riff is pretty wild too.

[Spudman]

Very nice to see. Oooo, a mixer AND a looper. I didn't think of that.

I'll bet Warren was somewhere in there doing the pancake thing, right?

[tot_Ou_tard]

When (not if) I get a looper, I plan on doing the following for headphone practice.

Guitar > (any pedal I may have) > Tonelab > Looper > mixer > headphones.

I own the Tonelab & mixer already.

Is this possible. Do any loopers have headphones out negating the need for the mixer?

Do any loopers have balanced inputs which would acept the line out on the Tonelab, or would I need to use the amp out setting?

[Spudman]

I think the idea is to be able to be able to use the mixer so that your inputs into the looper are better balanced. One of the problems with the looper is that it is very sensitive to input. By that I mean if you overdub a layer and it is too loud then you are hosed and have to undo it and redo it at a different level. It's real easy to NOT get the balance you intend.

With the mixer you can vary the other instruments like the guy in the video so that your percussion is at the right level compared to your melodic instruments and your synth string patch isn't burying the guitar.

Does that make any sense?

What I would do is: Guitar>effect pedals>tonelab>mixer>amph

Use this if you are going to add a bass or other sounds or instruments. Then plug those into other channels on the mixer.

[tot_Ou_tard]

I think the idea is to be able to be able to use the mixer so that your inputs into the looper are better balanced. One of the problems with the looper is that it is very sensitive to input. By that I mean if you overdub a layer and it is too loud then you are hosed and have to undo it and redo it at a different level. It's real easy to NOT get the balance you intend.

With the mixer you can vary the other instruments like the guy in the video so that your percussion is at the right level compared to your melodic instruments and your synth string patch isn't burying the guitar.

Does that make any sense?

What I would do is: Guitar>effect pedals>tonelab>mixer>amph

Use this if you are going to add a bass or other sounds or instruments. Then plug those into other channels on the mixer.

Cool. So for headphone practice just replace the amph with 'fones?

[Spudman]

Cool. So for headphone practice just replace the amph with 'fones?

In that case I would go: Guitar>effects>looper>Tonelab>phones

[tot_Ou_tard]

Thanks for the help Spud!

I don't recall if this has been shown before, but here is a demo of the Boss RC-2.

http://www.gearwire.com/boss-rc2.html

[tot_Ou_tard]

I just got my RC-2 & tried it out. It took a little bit of time to figure it out & then it is easy to operate. For a beginner like me, having drum tracks to play with is extraordinarily helpful; it forces me to stay in time. The ability to quickly record & playback to hear all the mistakes I've made is a humbling but helpful learning experience. Add to that the capability of layering, so that I can play lead to my own rhythm track & you've got a nifty little practice tool.

I can tell that it'll be one of the best purchases that I've made.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone have any loop quantize hints?

Do you start recording exactly on the first beat & end exactly on the first beat
of measure following the phrase that you are recording?

---------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I just put my bad monkey in front of the RC-2. Does anyone know why I had to crank the phrase volume on the RC-2 to get a decent level even when the Bad Monkey was off?

[Tone2TheBone]

OK, I just put my bad monkey in front of the RC-2. Does anyone know why I had to crank the phrase volume on the RC-2 to get a decent level even when the Bad Monkey was off?


Gotta keep these discussions going!

Do you mean you have apparently low clean guitar sound (without using the Monkey pedal) when you record a phrase? I noticed that too at first but once I got a good balance between the clean guitar sound and the rhythm (drum) playback on the pedal then I just tweaked the level on the OD (your Bad Monkey) pedal when I kick that in until everything balances out. I'm sure by now you've straightened this out on your end.

I did use my MXR Micro Amp pedal though to boost the signal slightly when I played my Jazz Bass through the pedals and amp to overdub bass parts. The RC-20 limits the input of the bass guitar. I guess so that it doesn't overpower your amp. With my guitar levels set for clean and dirty...and the playback volumes set for balance it still wasn't enough signal for the bass. The Micro Amp pedal fixes that and brings the bass guitar level up enough to get a good clean recording without having to readjust all my settings on my pedals/amp just to record the bass guitar.

I sent you a PM about stepping on the pedal to record but I'll ask it again here. When I step on the pedal to record I'm getting a small bump in playback on the drum guide. Is that because I have to step on the pedal at the exact moment of the 1st downbeat of the measure? I may be stepping on it too early and it bumps. What do you think? Oh I also got the FS-5U pedal today too. I think I posted that on the "other" looper thread.

[Spudman]

Turn down the rhythm knob on the RC2 > hit the pedal > record what you wish and try to keep the meter pretty steady > hit the pedal again to stop recording.

Now turn up your rhythm knob. You should have a quantized rhythm track behind what you just recorded. It does the math for you.

If you are trying to start a capture while the rhythm is playing you will often miss the beat by a micro second and that could be the 'bump' that you hear.

[Justaguyin_nc]

I got a Boss rc-20xl on the way , I dunno why..but I do.. anyways..

Question: I can't find any docs online for this thing... and I was anxiously wondering.. there is a Mic Input, an Instrument Input and an auxilary input... can I actually use this as a mixer also? all going into the mix at one time? or is it button controlled as to which input your using? The reason.. I have two inputs now for mic and instrument and would be nice to just have the one.. just wondering if the mic by-passes all effects also?

[Spudman]

Justa
Tou're going to love it. Don't worry.
There are no effects in the unit. It is a capture device. What goes in is what comes out. When you get it hook stuff up to all the inputs and experiment then you'll know what they are about.
Congratulations.

[Justaguyin_nc]

Justa
Tou're going to love it. Don't worry.
There are no effects in the unit. It is a capture device. What goes in is what comes out. When you get it hook stuff up to all the inputs and experiment then you'll know what they are about.
Congratulations.

Ummm I knew it didn't have any effects... I was just wondering if they all came out together mic/guitar/aux which I found out they did.. I found a manual over at loopers delight..:) so I can read a bit while I wait...

[SixStringJoe]

man, that's a wicked gadget. Imagine what you can do with it.

[Justaguyin_nc]

truthfully..I can't imagine..but I am gonna learn...:)

[Justaguyin_nc]

Well she made me open it... We finished wrapping all the other presents.. except it and MUCH wood for her project (I hope I get to it now..:) )

Boss RC-20XL
First impressions: Ok after a hug and a kiss..umm to her.. I "glanced" at the docs and proceeded to hook it up.. ofcourse the lil pedal board has no more room but I squeezed it on there and removed a few with a promise to return them when needed. Plugging it up was like any other pedal, power and in and out 1/4 inch.. Note: no power on or off.. it's always on... Ok so I remember from the first glance at the book left pedal starts this thing and right stops it.. click on the left and there goes the little red light flashing away and me strumming away... cool.. ok hit right pedal to stop it.. hit left again to start it playing.. cool.. Now, I am looking down at this thing and thru my ignorance... I am thinking, now wait if I want to add something to this I have to turn that little knob there called phrase select to 2... My ignorance is telling me this is gonna be a pain! bending to do that each time... than it dawns on me... after seeing videos etc of people using this thing... just dub it now dude... clicking the left foot control once again there is a cute lil yellow light blinking.. cool... I start a lil notey thing over the strums... press the right pedal to stop it.. press left again to play it... cool.. they are together... now that was sweet..and easy once ignorance gets out of the way... Ok, so now I see how to lay it all together.. lets do another.. I select phrase select and put it to 2... repeated most of the above and hit play again.. coool... but was it as cool as the first one... I know I will go back to 1 and see... click to 1... what the... Ignorance forgot to have me write that little loop to 1.. ahh well... I got it now... save/write if you dont want to lose it.. than you can store up to 11 of those bad boys..if the 16 minutes doe not run out...:)

Ok, now a few things that kinda bug me while I am figuring this pedal/looper out.. First.. if you use tap tempo.. there is a very faint clicking in the back even with tap tempo turned down to off (I assumed it was for the sound as the light always flashes) .. so in your mix you have the click too.. but if you do not use tap tempo..no clicking is heard.. Also.. Quantize only works with tap tempo...(clicking again)... If you just start playing and then end.. without this feature..it kinda lines up anyways..so I am still lost here as to whats going on... I can see I may finally learn to keep rhythm..seeing there are so many idiot lights that pull me in..:)

There is also a cd included with 45 loops..some pretty darn nice ones..
This setup is a learning tool.. I can see that now.. it can't make me play or sound any better than I am.. but its a stepping stone to be there.. and although I mentioned earlier in a post that there is a software program that does this with midi foot control.. it's not the same or same feel.. this is pretty darn neat as a first impression that is... If I was creative.. I might use this for a long time to come... Hope I do...

It records out pretty good to.. as easy as it gets.. its just there with your signal... below is my very first loopy..You guys know I have no shame... so just cause I wanted to.. I did the fade in and out.. its not the pedal there.. although there suppose to be a fadeout function but I have yet to get that far...

Oh and its built like a tank.. hope it last like one..

[Robert]

Congrats Justa! It's a great tool to have. I find it works great for practicing rhythm playing and timing. You can tell right away if your timing is off.

I still haven't learned all my JamMan can do either, I guess I should print out the manual (it didn't come with one since I got it used.).

[tot_Ou_tard]

Yeah a looper is spectacular for getting your timing down. Perfect for a newbie like me.

[oldguy]

Nice, Justa!
I think you will like it. I used the RP 50 into the Jamman when I recorded that "Surfabilly" clip. Used the RP's built in drummer with the tap tempo turned off to lay down the rhythm guitar and then played the lead over it.
Loopers are great to lay down chord progressions to play with later, then you can try out different leads and chart your progress as you go.:D

[Justaguyin_nc]

I can already tell in the charting progress oldguy.. I have tried metronome programs on the computer.. but have always wandered away from them... although the sounds you can change to on the boss rc-20xl are not many for the tempo.. you can adjust the volume and they do pretty good... tap tempo backings.. in the short week.. this tempo stuff has gotten me to see how much I really really needed one.. such a poor beginner.. I speed up...slow down and never realize it... till I listen later... what a great learning tool this will be to help me slow down and try to stay in time... and one more feature I have already grown fond of on the boss.. the fade out feature... pretty neat.. I tried the reverse feature... i keep getting flashbacks when I use it.. but I assume there must be a use for it...:)

[Justaguyin_nc]

I found a triple button Boss fsu type footswitch on E-Bay for the Boss RC-20xl and thought for the price (under $50.00 including the shipping) I would give it a shot although the size may be to small to hit it properly.. From what I noticed in the little time playing with this looper, A footswitch for phrase switching would - should really add to the flexability of the looper.will let all know how well it was made once it gets here. below is the description and a picture.



If you have a Boss Loop station RC-20XL Phrase Recorder, this Custom made triple unlatching Footswitch is a MUST-HAVE! it can be used with the RC-20XL both to change loops (it goes in numerical order in conjunction with the minus and plus switches -ie... tap "UP arrow" 3 times, it jumps to 3 stored loops away...tap "down arrow" 2 times, it jumps to 2 loops before the one your on) and the third-front footswitch to toggle between forward and reverse loop playback. With this pedal, you have FAR more operation of the RC-20XL completely hands free. Best thing about this switch? It's much smaller than the size of 3 Boss FS-5U pedals....and far more cost effective.........it measures 4 inches by 2 inches by 1 1/8 inches (height).. .way more practical as far as pedalboard space goes! ..2 1/4" inch
jacks(one stereo) on the back you simply plug into the unit with (EASY!) .. Brand new, used only to test, and works perfectly......This auction DOES NOT include any patch cables. You will need one STEREO cable 1/4" and one regular mono patch cable 1/4" - STEREO cable is NECESSARY to shift loops in
both directions. any music store or even radio shack has them.!)...we are only making a few at a time, once in a while, so there are only a few available - don't wait if you need one!...

[Justaguyin_nc]

will let all know how well it was made once it gets here.

The 3 way switch for the 20xl got here and it works. I did think without actually asking, that it would be metal and about the size of the MXR pedals. Well, its all plastic including the switches (how long can one step on plastic?) and about 3/4 the size of a mxr pedal. I never go out any place to play, so for home use it will be fine and does enhance the use of the looper.. I had to velcro it down or its to light to stay in one spot once the cables are connected. Also, the switches should have been mounted the other way in my opinion as you have to run the cables past under your feet. Although I saved about 50 to 75 bucks going this route I would not suggest it for someone that actually plays out and has a heavy foot... but for us clowns in the comic relief section its a good savings and does the job...;)

[Spudman]

That's good to know. I saw those too and almost sprang for one. Plastic will hold up pretty well unless you stand on it. Still, the buttons being so close together would present a problem while standing and gigging I'll bet.

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, I have a RC20 XL coming. After consulting with Sr. Spud and my own gut, I decided getting something to practice with myself and canned loops/rythyms was more important than getting a second electric guitar right now. Found it used and pretty cheap online. I am excited to try it, record a couple things I have been playing around with and just goof around. Also, want to use the drum/metronome aspects for disciplined practice as Jimi75 suggests. Robert, I have not noticed that you have posted a review of the JamMan. How has that been going for you? Well, here's to getting loopy! :)

[Robert]

I posted a short review at http://www.dolphinstreet.com/guitar_pedals/digitech_jamman

It's fun, fun! I plug in some drum loops in it and jam away. I make up some cool grooves on the fly. Great practice tool.

[sunvalleylaw]

I posted a short review at http://www.dolphinstreet.com/guitar_pedals/digitech_jamman

It's fun, fun! I plug in some drum loops in it and jam away. I make up some cool grooves on the fly. Great practice tool.

Thanks Robert. Missed that one. Excited to try out my RC-20 XL! :DR Probably be a week or so before it gets here though. :(

[Justaguyin_nc]

I was leary about getting one..
But now that I got the rc-20xl, it's always on! (well it does not turn off anyways)
Does not seem to add anything to the tone.. works!
I think-hope it's improving my timing... makes for great practice!
You will enjoy it!!

[Spudman]

Check out KT Tunstall's Wee Bastard looper pedal demonstration.
Can't play an instrument? No problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqGTphvsSsk

[Spudman]

Here is a great performance by Phil Keaggy where he uses a looper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcFBBimDUpE

[just strum]

I'll throw one more in of Phil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T89MVl2NcPg&feature=related

[just strum]

I thought I would jump over to this thread since it is more "on topic" of what I've been posting. I finally took the time to read the entire thread and it's a good thing I did as it opened my eyes to the options.

I downloaded the page Justaguyin recommended to give looping a try and had a little fun with it this morning. (http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/index.html).

Just going to have to keep an eye on e-bay. I wish the people bidding would stop getting into their bidding wars days before the close (I know, I've complained about this before, but I'm getting prepared for the "Airing of Grievances"). There is a used RC2 that has a bidding war and the price is up to ten dollars less than it costs for a new one and still has a little over a day to go - geez, it just ______ me off.:mad: :flamemad: :mad:

[Spudman]

Just going to have to keep an eye on e-bay. I wish the people bidding would stop getting into their bidding wars days before the close (I know, I've complained about this before, but I'm getting prepared for the "Airing of Grievances"). There is a used RC2 that has a bidding war and the price is up to ten dollars less than it costs for a new one and still has a little over a day to go - geez, it just ______ me off.:mad: :flamemad: :mad:

Patience Gasshopper.:munch:

[hubberjub]

Somebody has probably mentioned Keller Williams already but I thought I'd throw in a link anyway. This is probably his best known song but it's a good quality video. He doesn't start using the looper until about 2:20. He then uses it more at the end of the tune (4:45). He's just a great performer who very naturally incorporates the looper into his sound.

Keller clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAI3QgssxKA)

[just strum]

Patience Gasshopper.:munch:

I've been watching a Boss RC50 ($500 new) for the past couple of hours and was ready to pull the trigger when the price suddenly started to rise. Someone ended up sniping it with a single bid of $340 - decent deal.

[just strum]

Well, I got me a Digitech JamMan. Paid a little more than I planned, but let the fun begin. Well, once it arrives.

I saw some that were selling at a higher price than the one I won and those didn't have a power supply (another $20). So in the end I can't complain, now my wife on the other hand...

Shiner and Steve - I may need a lawyer.

[Robert]

How much did yours cost? I got mine for $239.50 (including shipping).

[just strum]

How much did yours cost? I got mine for $239.50.

$221. w/power source, plus 7.50 shipping (UPS). The previous one I was bidding on went for $235 without power source.

I'm cheap, I was shooting for $160 to $180, but it was obvious that wasn't going to happen unless it was damaged or beat to he77.

[sunvalleylaw]

$221. w/power source, plus 7.50 shipping (UPS). The previous one I was bidding on went for $235 without power source.

I'm cheap, I was shooting for $160 to $180, but it was obvious that wasn't going to happen unless it was damaged or beat to he77.

My RC20xl was in that range, and in good shape, but without power source. Hope you don't really need those lawyer services big guy! :)

[just strum]

My RC20xl was in that range, and in good shape, but without power source. Hope you don't really need those lawyer services big guy! :)

Yep, it seems they both run around the same price. I came real close to a RC20XL, but got sniped with two seconds to go. I saw a couple of RC2, but they were selling close to what you can get them for new. I think if you pick up an RC2, RC20xl or the Jamman you won't go wrong. I was really drooling :drool: when I started chasing the RC50, but that just went out of reach.

Called my wife from work and I won't be needing that lawyer, but I've relinquished my Christmas gifts for the next ten years.:( :(

[Guitar Gal]

Strum,

Congrats on the new JamMan :Dude:

Let me know what you think of it after you've had it for awhile. I've been looking at those myself.

Good to know you won't be needing any lawyer services in the near future either :D

GG

[Justaguyin_nc]

I downloaded the page Justaguyin recommended to give looping a try and had a little fun with it this morning. (http://evenfall.com/ambiloop/index.html).

looks like the link has changed... http://www.ambiloop.com/
would suggest anyone thinking of a looper to check that program out to see if you would really use one.. ofcourse the answer is YES!! :D

Congrats Strum!
Hope you enjoy it!!
:AOK:

[just strum]

GG and Justaguyin, thanks.

It shipped today and will arrive Thursday, so I get it for the weekend. I always love it when new toys arrive just before the weekend - no work and a new toy!!!

I'm glad the guy uses UPS, he charged half the price as other sellers for shipping and USPS would take oh let's say - well, let's just say I might have been able to use it on New Years.

It will be fun figuring the thing out, but what I'm really looking forward to is advancing my skills.

GG, I would watch e-bay for either the Boss RC20xl or the JamMan. They have slightly different features, but both are good buys. And if anyone really wants to get into one of these, there is another RC50 with 20 hours to go and it's at $207. It might not get up to $340+ because of the seller (buyer beware). I can see Robert standing over an RC50 with that familiar grin he gets when he makes a video demonstrating the latest toy he's purchased.:)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBTOX:IT&item=230200992119&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

[Spudman]

Strum
Did you find out the serial number before you bought that JamMan? I'm just wondering if it might be one of the recalled versions.

[just strum]

Strum
Did you find out the serial number before you bought that JamMan? I'm just wondering if it might be one of the recalled versions.

Ummm, no. Since I'm not the original owner, do you think I can get it fixed? I guess my first question should be why was it recalled?

[sunvalleylaw]

Watch out Strum, he pulls that line on many that land a new purchase they like. ;)

[Spudman]

Ummm, no. Since I'm not the original owner, do you think I can get it fixed? I guess my first question should be why was it recalled?

Gotchya! :rotflmao: :beer:

[just strum]

Gotchya! :rotflmao: :beer:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/auroraohio/homer-doh.jpg

[tot_Ou_tard]

I have an RC2 that I love.

I got that one, because of the built in drum machine. I use that feature the most to help with my timing.

Now if it only had a built in time machine ...;).

[Tone2TheBone]

I've had my RC-2 for a year now and I haven't messed with it much I've been too busy messing with new pedals and amps. And new guitars.

[Lev]

I love mine too - Jim's post on his new Line6 Variax guitar started me thinking of the endless possibilities combining a Variax and a RC-2. I could be a one man band - if only my talent was endless too!

[just strum]

Gotchya! :rotflmao: :beer:

I told a couple of guys at work about your little joke and they LTAO. They knew how pumped I was for this thing.

It's sitting at the UPS terminal about 20 miles from here. It was shipped from Iowa and I thought the ice storms might delay it.

I know I'm making more of this than I should, but I love new toys!!! Keeps me young. Well, that and being immature. :D

[just strum]

Well, the Jamman showed up today and the thing looks brand new (much better than it appeared in the e-bay photos. So far everything seems to work, at least everything I figured out how to work. I just used the quick start section of the book, so I have not really learned the workings of this thing.

I do notice a hissing noise going through the amp when this thing is hooked up. It not loud, but it is annoying. Would the cable cause that? I'm using a very cheap cable running from the jamman to the amp.

[sunvalleylaw]

I needed to use a separate power supply on my RC20xl, rather than chain it on my 9spot. Then it cleared right up. Might be a similar deal.

[just strum]

I needed to use a separate power supply on my RC20xl, rather than chain it on my 9spot. Then it cleared right up. Might be a similar deal.

9spot?

I have the amp plugged into one outlet and the jamman plugged into another outlet on the other side of the room. However, I'm not sure if the outlets are connected - have to check in the basement to see how they are wired.

[sunvalleylaw]

a 9spot is a multiple plug power source for pedals, ie, one plug on the power strip, powers 5 pedals.

[just strum]

a 9spot is a multiple plug power source for pedals, ie, one plug on the power strip, powers 5 pedals.

It's the cable. Instead of running the cheap cable from the jamman to the amp, I used the better cable to link them and put the cheaper cable from the guitar to the jamman and the hissing stopped. Get another good cable and I'm in business.

[Spudman]

This guy does some really cool stuff with his Boss Loop Station and a POD X3 Live.
zgOQXfyr3Lg

[ShortBuSX]

This guy does some really cool stuff with his Boss Loop Station and a POD X3 Live.
zgOQXfyr3Lg

Wow that was awesome! Very Chemical Bros. like.


What a great topic, glad I used the search feature:thwap:

And I cant get over how many members actually have one of these(or similar)...Im gonna go around and dig up more for inspiration and ideas.

Im curious about the optional footswtiches and if anybody has tried anything different than the "plastic ebay" one mentioned previously in this thread?

[Spudman]

Im curious about the optional footswtiches and if anybody has tried anything different than the "plastic ebay" one mentioned previously in this thread?

I'm in the process of building a new pedal board and will most likely get some quality button switches and mount them in a case on the board specifically to use with the RC20XL. I also use momentary buttons to set the tap tempo on my delay and have another on/off so that I can turn off the PA reverb or change channels on my amph. It's simple to do with buttons and 1/4" female jacks.

[thearabianmage]

Boss RC50 is amazing!!!

I've had mine for about 2 years now and it is such a vital piece of equipment, that I sometimes find it hard to play without it. Of course, in some ways, that's a bad thing, but in the other ways it has helped my playing (improv, songwriting, theory, etc.) it more than makes up for anything else.

I personally think that any and everybody can learn something from looping their playing and playing over it. Whether it's with a Boss or not, I would highly recommend anyone interested in getting one.

And, once you get used to them, they are pretty addictive.

[Spudman]

And, once you get used to them, they are pretty addictive.

And a fun healthy addiction that you can actually benefit from unlike, say making pancakes.:pancake:

I have a hard time quitting playing with it myself.:o

[thearabianmage]

And a fun healthy addiction that you can actually benefit from. . .

:o :D

[Spudman]

This one is pretty cool too. Just goes to show you what can be done. ps. If anyone here can sing like this I have a job for you right now.:)
OAQNZ6ukon4

[Spudman]

This is really nice. Instant chamber ensemble.
CN2JTPvWN0s

[ShortBuSX]

Man, that crooked neck chic was kinda hot!

[Spudman]

Theresa Andersson is a one woman show.
Hailing from New Orleans the music runs through her veins just as much as the Mississippi runs through Louisiana. She's an incredible multi instrumentalist with an amazing voice and zest for her music.
http://www.myspace.com/theresaanderssonmusic

Be sure to watch her videos and check out all the related ones on YouTube. She features 2 Boss RC50 Loop Stations in her act.

[Robert]

Aha, that's why my veins are so huge - there's so much music running through them! Mystery solved. :AOK:

[Jipes]

Theresa Andersson is a one woman show.
Hailing from New Orleans the music runs through her veins just as much as the Mississippi runs through Louisiana. She's an incredible multi instrumentalist with an amazing voice and zest for her music.
http://www.myspace.com/theresaanderssonmusic

Be sure to watch her videos and check out all the related ones on YouTube. She features 2 Boss RC50 Loop Stations in her act.

She was a regular member of Anders Osborne line up surely a great artist :AOK:

[Spudman]

Jarle Bernhoft - this guy is amazing. He has a band, but this is his solo act with an RC50 looper. He's from Norway I think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64y1Nh8wJRI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUHXfq0R0k8

[Jipes]

Really great performances and soulful voice for sure !

[sunvalleylaw]

My looper is the best tool I have that I do not use well. I really need to get it out in the permanent chain and just start playing with the dang thing.

[street music]

I was just at the loopers available in the new Sweetwater catalog and was thinking about what use that I would have for one, I think that Zoom has a new pedal out that has a looper built in that I will try to check out, they have great drum tracks in most of their pedals.

[omegadot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhjA2nvVD7U

[crowhue]

Ive been using a Digitech Jamman Stereo pedal. Its great and to me, is one the most useful tools a guitar player can have. Either for songwriting, jamming, live work or whatever its superb. Highly recommended. Get one with plenty of memory and easy controls.

[Perfect Stranger]

TC Electronics Flashback Delay/Looper - Not only do you get a looper, you get a superb delay, and you also get downloadable TonePrints.....all for $169