Speakers Comparaison

[Blaze]

Interesting vid here ..

Comparaison of Celestion Vintage 30, G12-H30, K100, M70, Seventy 80, Gold Tone, Greenback, G12T-75, Jensen Alnico 12,
JBL M222, EVM12L, Tone Tubby 40/40, Tone Tubby San Rafael 25, Eminence Tonker and Eminence Swamp Thang..

Make your choice...



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[tot_Ou_tard]

Yeah Blazes, I listened to that a while back.

....I can't remember which I preferred.

How about you?

[M29]

I had seen it too. Very helpful. I hope he didn't have that mic fall out of that holder during the tests...

Thanks Blaze It is a good vid to take a listen to every now and then.

M

[Neal]

Thanks Blaze. That was a great comparison

[Blaze]

Yeah Blazes, I listened to that a while back.

....I can't remember which I preferred.

How about you?

Vintage 30 -- Greenback -- G12T-75

[M29]

Once the video is fully loaded, it is interesting to randomly click in the red bar at the bottom and hear the differences right away.
I wish they would have demoed my fav the Blue.

M

[Spudman]

That was really helpful. Thanks.

There are so many speakers on the market and it makes it hard to figure out what to choose. That demo really helps to hear the subtle and not so subtle differences. There are still more that I'd like to hear because I've got a couple of speakers that eventually I'd like to replace. That demo narrowed it down a little bit.

[majwild1]

I am a weber speaker believer, I run 1 silver bell and 1 blue dog in my 2x12 new vintage, and 2 california 12's i my twin ( same as a jbl d120f ) Ted(RIP) was a awsome sound engineer, and thankfully he taught TA his son all of his knowledge.

[Radioboy950]

I've always preferred the warmth and punchiness of V30...the frequencies are pleasing to my ears. Top is there without the shrill.
This is what I had in my Rivera combo.
My preference has not changed after listening to the demo (which is really a nice speaker shootout).

[epi0205]

Great find on the shootout Blaze!
I thought the EV sounded pretty good, Have some
older EV7300 amps in a P.A. Stable gear!
Thanks Blaze!
V30 gets my vote...

[tot_Ou_tard]

I am a weber speaker believer, I run 1 silver bell and 1 blue dog in my 2x12 new vintage, and 2 california 12's i my twin ( same as a jbl d120f ) Ted(RIP) was a awsome sound engineer, and thankfully he taught TA his son all of his knowledge.
How do you like the Silver Bell?

[duhvoodooman]

Man, the V30 and the Greenback both sound awfully good....

[Retro Hound]

I had no idea the differences could be that great just from a speaker change! I really really love the Vintage 30!

[duhvoodooman]

I really like that Eminence Swamp Thang, too--big, open sound.

That Tone Tubby San Rafael is apparently much less efficient than most of the others--very noticeable volume decrease, and I think it greatly influences the perception of the speaker's tone, not in a good way. I've read good things about this speaker, but you wouldn't know it from this video clip.....

[Bloozcat]

My favorite speaker combo (this month ;) ) is the Celestion G12H30 and the Vintage 30 together in a 2X12 cab (I actually have a G12H30 and a WGS Veteran 30).

Tight bottom; warm, punchy mids; smooth highs. Funny, but to me the highs with the Vintage 30 alone sound a little harsh or shrill. I don't hear that with the WGS Veteran 30, and in combination with the Celestion G12H30 it's really balanced.

That is a great video demo. Only place I've ever heard each speaker in rapid succession with the exact same riff played over and over. Good stuff!

[duhvoodooman]

My favorite speaker combo (this month ;) ) is the Celestion G12H30 and the Vintage 30 together in a 2X12 cab (I actually have a G12H30 and a WGS Veteran 30).

Tight bottom; warm, punchy mids; smooth highs. Funny, but to me the highs with the Vintage 30 alone sound a little harsh or shrill. I don't hear that with the WGS Veteran 30, and in combination with the Celestion G12H30 it's really balanced.
AAMOF, I've been thinking about buying a mixed pair of speakers from WGS to install in the 2x12 Drive cab I bought a couple of years ago. There are a pair of lower end Eminence Legends in it now that are a bit dull & nondescript. I've been leaning toward a Veteran 30 & a Green Beret, their Greenback clone.

[Commodore 64]

DVM, I have a WGS Green Beret in my 1 x 12" cab.

Listening to those clips, I definitely think I like the Vintage 3 and the Swamp Thing better. I dunno how much about my sound is my cab though, it is so boomy...it's a VHT cab I got on CL. It's a closed back, front loaded cab...I'm resisting the temptation to cut out the back to lessen the "boom".

[Blaze]

AAMOF, I've been thinking about buying a mixed pair of speakers from WGS to install in the 2x12 Drive cab I bought a couple of years ago. There are a pair of lower end Eminence Legends in it now that are a bit dull & nondescript. I've been leaning toward a Veteran 30 & a Green Beret, their Greenback clone.

Green Beret looks interesting as well, i ve purchased an Eminence (Greenback Legend)GB128 for a small cabinet I ve recycled to fit with my Blackstar Ht 5 head.. I like it a lot .Speaker sensivity is 101.4 which is pretty good for a $70.00 speaker.. Always Question of taste obviously..

[Bloozcat]

AAMOF, I've been thinking about buying a mixed pair of speakers from WGS to install in the 2x12 Drive cab I bought a couple of years ago. There are a pair of lower end Eminence Legends in it now that are a bit dull & nondescript. I've been leaning toward a Veteran 30 & a Green Beret, their Greenback clone.

That combo ought to work, especially with the WGS speakers.

A lower end combo that I've played through and liked is the Eminence Legend 125 (older 50 watt version) and the Eminence GB12. Sorta like a Greenback/C12N Jensen combo. Of course, it depends on the amp too.

[majwild1]

How do you like the Silver Bell?

I love the silver bell, nice crisp cleans and tight low end, I would recommend for british tones amps, same with the blue dog, mixing the 2 together works really well.

[deeaa]

I thought the Jensen P-12M sounded perhaps the best of the bunch.
Also like the Greenback (that's what I have, although mine are 1976 built and I think less trebly) and the Celestion 75 is one of my faves.

I didn't like the V30 so much; I've had those too and it sounds too 'polished' for me - initially it's got impressive low and high end but soon gets tiring - it's like those Loudness knobs on stereos or SuperSpatial etc. enhancers, sounds great at first but then you realize it's too much.

[BigBadWolf1171]

i liked the v30's, they sounded crisp and loud. as im battling muddyness with both of my cabinets (behringer and a cheap marshall) i may try these in one of my cabs..

[deeaa]

i liked the v30's, they sounded crisp and loud. as im battling muddyness with both of my cabinets (behringer and a cheap marshall) i may try these in one of my cabs..

That should work; I tried that with a friend's muddy Behringer 4x12" cab with some Jensens and one overly shrill 2x12" cab with V30's that I had - we swapped the speakers around and both sounded better! Those darker, middy Jensens were just right for the 15" all-tube amp that had some ugly bright overtones when cranked, and the V30's nicely battled the deadness of the Behri cab.

He's swapped to T75's now, though.

[BigBadWolf1171]

That should work; I tried that with a friend's muddy Behringer 4x12" cab with some Jensens and one overly shrill 2x12" cab with V30's that I had - we swapped the speakers around and both sounded better! Those darker, middy Jensens were just right for the 15" all-tube amp that had some ugly bright overtones when cranked, and the V30's nicely battled the deadness of the Behri cab.

He's swapped to T75's now, though.

im glad i took a sec and listened to those different speakers, i was almost dead set on eminence texas heats, but after hearing the v-30's , those are for me.. i even tried stuffing the behringer with badding and all it did was deaden an already muddy sound, very disappointing. where is the muddyness coming from? is it the cabinet? the speaker?ive done endless reading on the affect of cabinet material, as it ends up for every 1000 opinions, there was 1000 different ones..

[deeaa]

im glad i took a sec and listened to those different speakers, i was almost dead set on eminence texas heats, but after hearing the v-30's , those are for me.. i even tried stuffing the behringer with badding and all it did was deaden an already muddy sound, very disappointing. where is the muddyness coming from? is it the cabinet? the speaker?ive done endless reading on the affect of cabinet material, as it ends up for every 1000 opinions, there was 1000 different ones..

I dunno - it's pretty heavily built with non-resonant materials I guess, and the internal space is also probably less than ideal for higher transients to be reinforced. But it's a very sturdy cab and with bright speakers it's quite good for the price IMO. Seems to be best favored by metal players, maybe because it has little coloration and not too much high end.

Mind you, it always depends on the amp...some amps it seems just won't play along with a 400W Marshall cab for instance while others thrive on top of 'em.

[BigBadWolf1171]

I dunno - it's pretty heavily built with non-resonant materials I guess, and the internal space is also probably less than ideal for higher transients to be reinforced. But it's a very sturdy cab and with bright speakers it's quite good for the price IMO. Seems to be best favored by metal players, maybe because it has little coloration and not too much high end.

Mind you, it always depends on the amp...some amps it seems just won't play along with a 400W Marshall cab for instance while others thrive on top of 'em.

yeah the price is what lured me in for such a big cab(heavy too). as i look back now i wished i didnt get something so big,as honestly ive never been able to turn it up enough to get the speakers rockin enough to give a honest opinion on the whole cab set up.when i saw it in zzound's catalog all i pictured was every 80's hairband video,lol and got lured in.. i did all my reading on cabinet material affects on sound for the purpose of building another cabinet as ive dealt with carpentry and fabrication for many many years, however i couldnt come to a conclusion on the best material to use..birch plywood being most pointed to..

[Commodore 64]

yeah the price is what lured me in for such a big cab(heavy too). as i look back now i wished i didnt get something so big,as honestly ive never been able to turn it up enough to get the speakers rockin enough to give a honest opinion on the whole cab set up.when i saw it in zzound's catalog all i pictured was every 80's hairband video,lol and got lured in.. i did all my reading on cabinet material affects on sound for the purpose of building another cabinet as ive dealt with carpentry and fabrication for many many years, however i couldnt come to a conclusion on the best material to use..birch plywood being most pointed to..

I have a front loaded, closed back VHT 1 x 12".it is really boomy and bassy. Is your cab open back? I'm thinking of making mine open back.

Like you, I'm considering building a cab. I will be doing an open back (or convertible back) 1 x 12". There's a good plan for 1x12" here: http://www.ax84.com/corecabinets.html

[deeaa]

Guys, FWIW, while I think open backs sound great especially the bluesier or more reverby a sound you're after, they're a real pain in the *ss in comparison when on gigs etc, unless you're running all amps just 'live' onstage, not thru a big PA system.

The problem with open backs is that they radiate pretty much the same volume also towards the back, which can be a big problem in that a.) they may reflect weirdly every which way b.) they may be heard in places you don't want 'em (like if the other guy uses a D/I POD etc. system and the other an open-back amp, you hear the open back only in most of the venue) and c.) open-back cab sound can change drastically if you are forced to put it in small spaces or up agaist the wall.

One cab I always liked a lot was a 4x12" that was missing two speakers...sounded much like an open cab, airy etc. but still projected well forward.

Just my experience of course. A convertible cab would solve most issues.

[BigBadWolf1171]

I have a front loaded, closed back VHT 1 x 12".it is really boomy and bassy. Is your cab open back? I'm thinking of making mine open back.

Like you, I'm considering building a cab. I will be doing an open back (or convertible back) 1 x 12". There's a good plan for 1x12" here: http://www.ax84.com/corecabinets.html

both of mine are closed back, but its really only the behringer thats boomy errr actually it sounds like, almost echo'y or hollow, there was a few speakers in this comparision that had somewhat the same sound. what material will you use?

[BigBadWolf1171]

Guys, FWIW, while I think open backs sound great especially the bluesier or more reverby a sound you're after, they're a real pain in the *ss in comparison when on gigs etc, unless you're running all amps just 'live' onstage, not thru a big PA system.

The problem with open backs is that they radiate pretty much the same volume also towards the back, which can be a big problem in that a.) they may reflect weirdly every which way b.) they may be heard in places you don't want 'em (like if the other guy uses a D/I POD etc. system and the other an open-back amp, you hear the open back only in most of the venue) and c.) open-back cab sound can change drastically if you are forced to put it in small spaces or up agaist the wall.

One cab I always liked a lot was a 4x12" that was missing two speakers...sounded much like an open cab, airy etc. but still projected well forward.

Just my experience of course. A convertible cab would solve most issues.

i had gave the 4x12 with just 2 speakers a thought before,as i enjoy testing different things. a 4x12 with removable back or even removable 2-piece back would be interesting thing to test out. if the reading i did is correct about cab material ,in lay terms, one would want the sound waves ring off the material and come thru the speakers as apposed to more or less soak in to the material ?

[duhvoodooman]

On a hot tip from Bloozcat, I just nailed a next-to-new WGS Green Beret, their Celestion Greenback clone, from a guy at the Gear Page. $45 + shipping. :AOK :happy

For any of you who aren't familiar with WGS (Warehouse Guitar Speakers), they're an outfit that's been around for 3 years or so now, and have made a real splash in the guitar amp speaker market with amazingly close reproductions of several of the most popular Celestion models, but typically at about half the price. I have one of their Veteran 30 speakers (their Vintage 30 clone) in my 1x12 cab and it sounds GREAT.

And dig this--they assemble these speakers right here in the good ol' US of A, not overseas. :smile-us: Check 'em out:


WGS website (http://warehousespeakers.com/about.php)

Now I just need to decide on what I want to put in my Drive 2x12 cab along with the Green Beret. Decisions, decisions....

[BigBadWolf1171]

On a hot tip from Bloozcat, I just nailed a next-to-new WGS Green Beret, their Celestion Greenback clone, from a guy at the Gear Page. $45 + shipping. :AOK :happy

For any of you who aren't familiar with WGS (Warehouse Guitar Speakers), they're an outfit that's been around for 3 years or so now, and have made a real splash in the guitar amp speaker market with amazingly close reproductions of several of the most popular Celestion models, but typically at about half the price. I have one of their Veteran 30 speakers (their Vintage 30 clone) in my 1x12 cab and it sounds GREAT.

And dig this--they assemble these speakers right here in the good ol' US of A, not overseas. Check 'em out:


WGS website (http://warehousespeakers.com/about.php)

Now I just need to decide on what I want to put in my Drive 2x12 cab along with the Green Beret....

you're awesome,good find voo,:applause im really digging the green beret..sure has some growl to it, maybe 2 veteran 30's and 2 green berets.

[duhvoodooman]

Now I just need to decide on what I want to put in my Drive 2x12 cab along with the Green Beret. Decisions, decisions....
Done deal--nailed a very lightly used Eminence Wizard from a guy at TGP for $60 + shipping. Should pair up nicely with the Green Beret in my 2x12 cab. :dude :happy

[Commodore 64]

I'm meeting someone tonight on the way home from work to purchase a Lopoline 1x12" cabinet. I'm thinking about nabbing a VIntage 30 from WGS to go in it. I'll have 2 1 x 12" cabs then...my little giant has 2 8ohm connections ont he back...does this mean I could send that head to both cabs at the same time?

If so, I'll have to reuse the original 8 ohm Eminence speaker with my other cab, since the Green Beret in there now is 16 ohm.

[BigBadWolf1171]

I'm meeting someone tonight on the way home from work to purchase a Lopoline 1x12" cabinet. I'm thinking about nabbing a VIntage 30 from WGS to go in it. I'll have 2 1 x 12" cabs then...my little giant has 2 8ohm connections ont he back...does this mean I could send that head to both cabs at the same time?

If so, I'll have to reuse the original 8 ohm Eminence speaker with my other cab, since the Green Beret in there now is 16 ohm.

i get confused with ohms, i never remember how it works, WGS has some decent prices, i cant decide which ones to get.. as i was trolling thru CARVIN.com i noticed they had celestion v-30s for 85 bucks..

[tunghaichuan]

I've got a little BH Little Giant head. The two 8 ohm jacks are wired in parallel, meaning you need 8 ohms total. If you plug in two 8 ohm cabinets, you'll be putting a 4 ohm load on the 8 ohm setting. To use two 8 ohm cabs you plug both into the 4 ohm jacks, which are wired in parallel and will see a 4 ohm load when two 8 ohm cabs are plugged in.




I'm meeting someone tonight on the way home from work to purchase a Lopoline 1x12" cabinet. I'm thinking about nabbing a VIntage 30 from WGS to go in it. I'll have 2 1 x 12" cabs then...my little giant has 2 8ohm connections ont he back...does this mean I could send that head to both cabs at the same time?

If so, I'll have to reuse the original 8 ohm Eminence speaker with my other cab, since the Green Beret in there now is 16 ohm.

[Commodore 64]

Ok, so to use the 2 8ohm jacks, I would need 2 16 Ohm speakers then. Right now I have a 16 ohm and an 8 ohm speaker, so I'll need to order another speaker (either 8 or 16ohm), in order to use 2 cabs off of the BHLG.

[Commodore 64]

Got the Lopoline cab. It has a dual jack in the back.... running a 16 and 8 ohm speaker in parallel would be 5,3 ohms, right? Could you safely run 5.3ohms out of a 4 ohm jack on the LG?


In any event, this point may be moot. The Lopoline cab is just what I had hoped. It's not nearly as boomy as my VHT ported cab. I loaded it with the 8-Ohm Eminence speaker that was originally in the VHT and it sounds great. I'm not sure I want the boom of the VHT. But then again, maybe they would sound great together!

Now the only other question is: Do I load the Lopoline with the Green Beret that's currently in the VHT cab? Decisions, Decisions.

In any event, it looks like I need to get either another 8 or 16 ohm speaker.

Anyone up for a trade?

[BigBadWolf1171]

heres a comparision of a v30 and a veteren 30 from warehousespeakers.com
. theres a few other comparisions.

[Radioboy950]

heres a comparision of a v30 and a veteren 30 from warehousespeakers.com
. theres a few other comparisions.

Where?

[BigBadWolf1171]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3cyE2Llqxw

try there

[Radioboy950]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3cyE2Llqxw

try there

Good shootout...and it turned me on to an amp I had not even considered.
That Traynor 112 combo is awesome for the $$.

[Bloozcat]

Whoo-Hoo!

Just won a like new Eminence Legend GB12 on Ebay for $37.00 plus shipping ($52.00 shipped). I've had this barely tested 50 watt Legend 125 that I bought new sitting around for a while now that I always thought would pair well with a GB12. Best of both worlds; the vintage American tone of the Legend 125 with the classic British greenback-like tone of the GB12. The legend 125 is known for its tight bass, smooth mids and sweet highs, and the GB12 for its full bass and pronounced mids/upper mids. I had mentioned this combo to the folks at Eminence in an e-mail about a year ago and they said it's a great combo, in fact it's one they recommend. We'll see...:cool:

[duhvoodooman]

And you ain't the only one, BC! Here's the little audio treasure trove I've acquired in the last week: a WGS Green Beret (Celestion Greenback clone) and an Eminence Wizard (both 16 ohm) that I got from two different guys on TGP, and a 8 ohm Eminence Cannabis Rex off the NYC Craigslist. The Green Beret and Wizard will go into my Drive 2x12 cab, and the Cannabis Rex is destined for my Blues Junior.

To clear up any drug-related speculation, the Cannabis Rex is so named because it uses a hemp fiber cone manufactured for Eminence by Tone Tubby, who specializes in them. I've read great things about their tonal quality, particularly what a pleasingly smooth top-end they have. I've decided that the uber-Fendery jangle of the Jensen C12R I have in the Blues Jr. currently just isn't that well suited for how/what I play.

A photo of the "Tres Hombres":


http://duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/new_speakers.jpg

[sumitomo]

Ya Mon! and wit a name like Duhvoodoo mon we know who be supplying the material to be makin speakers!:poke Sumi:D

[Bloozcat]

And you ain't the only one, BC! Here's the little audio treasure trove I've acquired in the last week: a WGS Green Beret (Celestion Greenback clone) and an Eminence Wizard (both 16 ohm) that I got from two different guys on TGP, and a 8 ohm Eminence Cannabis Rex off the NYC Craigslist. The Green Beret and Wizard will go into my Drive 2x12 cab, and the Cannabis Rex is destined for my Blues Junior.

To clear up any drug-related speculation, the Cannabis Rex is so named because it uses a hemp fiber cone manufactured for Eminence by Tone Tubby, who specializes in them. I've read great things about their tonal quality, particularly what a pleasingly smooth top-end they have. I've decided that the uber-Fendery jangle of the Jensen C12R I have in the Blues Jr. currently just isn't that well suited for how/what I play.

A photo of the "Tres Hombres":


http://duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/new_speakers.jpg

Well, I couldn't let you have all the fun DVM...only 3/4 of it...:happy

My music room is starting to look like a darn speaker factory...:thwap

[duhvoodooman]

I stripped the Eminence Legend V128's out of my Drive 2x12 cab (http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/Drive_cab_inside.jpg) last night and mounted the Green Beret and Wizard. It was after 10 PM and my son was already in bed when I got it all back together, but I did have a chance to play a few notes through it with my Carvin CT6 and Egnater Rebel head. It's definitely got that in-your-face British-flavored growl now; good solid bottom and lots of top-end definition as well. Should be a perfect match-up with the Trinity 18W TMB kit, when I (finally) get that built....

[Bloozcat]

I stripped the Eminence Legend V128's out of my Drive 2x12 cab (http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/Drive_cab_inside.jpg) last night and mounted the Green Beret and Wizard. It was after 10 PM and my son was already in bed when I got it all back together, but I did have a chance to play a few notes through it with my Carvin CT6 and Egnater Rebel head. It's definitely got that in-your-face British-flavored growl now; good solid bottom and lots of top-end definition as well. Should be a perfect match-up with the Trinity 18W TMB kit, when I (finally) get that built....

That should sound great, DVM!

Of all the speakers in the Eminence Legend series, the V12 seems to be the one that's universally disliked. Most say it's too harsh and spikey, and not very musical.

You've made a major upgrade...:AOK

[duhvoodooman]

For anyone who might be interested, the guy I bought the Emi Wizard from just offered me a second one just like it (16 ohm) that he's decided to sell, also. I'm pretty sure he's a student and hard up for cash. He's giving me special pricing because I bought the first one. If interested, PM me, and I'll try to broker the deal.

[Bloozcat]

For anyone who might be interested, the guy I bought the Emi Wizard from just offered me a second one just like it (16 ohm) that he's decided to sell, also. I'm pretty sure he's a student and hard up for cash. He's giving me special pricing because I bought the first one. If interested, PM me, and I'll try to broker the deal.

Why do deals always seem to come in floods while discretionary cash comes like the drip, drip, drip of a leaky faucet?

Another guy on The Gear Page has a pair of WGS ET-65's for $115.00 delivered. For that Ceriatone OTS of mine, they're like the Holy Grail of Robben Ford tone (actually it's the GT-65 Celestion, but the WGS sounds even better IMHO).

Aw, heck. I can't play like Robben Ford anyway, so I guess I won't miss them...:nope

Edit to add: Since this is the amp forum and we're talking about deals, someone locally is offering a Fender Deluxe Reverb II at a reasonable price. This is one of the early 80's hand wired tube classics made by Paul Rivera. :drool

Now how do I justify buying this amp when I've got several others already? And I still want an 18 Watt clone soon too (like that Trinity DVM)?

And then there's getting it by "homeland security". "Oh, that? Yeah, I've had that awhile..." (if by "awhile" I mean since yesterday!)

[duhvoodooman]

Oh. My. Lord!! :eek: :dude :happy

I mounted the WGS Green Beret and the Eminence Wizard in my Drive ported 2x12 cab the week before last, but only yesterday did I have the chance to really crank the volume up through them. Was running my Epi Elitist LP Standard though my Egnater Rebel 20W head into the cab. I've never played through a Marshall half-stack, but this must be close to the experience. It sounded just fabulous. That Green Beret added some real bottom end authority, and the Wizard gives a searing-but-oh-so-articulate top end. Truly impressive! I can truly understand now why people mix speakers in a cab.... :rockon:

[piebaldpython]

Oh. My. Lord!! :eek: :dude :happy I can truly understand now why people mix speakers in a cab.... :rockon:

And the same theory applies to pups in gits too. I did that with my Pettingill FPS-001 lap steel. A creamy, smooth bucker in the neck and an in-your-face steroidal bucker in the bridge. There isn't much in the bucker sound-system that these girls can't get to.

[Ch0jin]

To clear up any drug-related speculation, the Cannabis Rex is so named because it uses a hemp fiber cone manufactured for Eminence by Tone Tubby, who specializes in them...


Now there's a coincidence! I've come across a few references to that speaker on the intrawebs recently and just assumed it -was- a drug reference used as a marketing ploy! You know, to get that "stoner rock" sound or something. (although I note that it's not called the "Hemp Rex" haha)

Goes to show ya, assumptions are the mother of all mess-ups.

@PBP, I agree!

My old squire has a GFS Bridge Humbucker, a Fender SC middle and a DiMarzio Chopper neck. It's a Frankenstein for sure, but it covers a lot of different sounds!

[tunghaichuan]

Edit to add: Since this is the amp forum and we're talking about deals, someone locally is offering a Fender Deluxe Reverb II at a reasonable price. This is one of the early 80's hand wired tube classics made by Paul Rivera. :drool


My own personal opinion, having owned a few of those: I think most of the Rivera-era Fender amps sound like crap. The exceptions being the Super Champ and the Rivera Concert. I owned a Super Champ, a Deluxe Reverb II and a Princeton Reverb II. I looked for a Concert for years, but never had the cash on hand when one came available.

I remember when those amps came out in the 80s, music stores had to sell them at cost to get rid of them. The clean sound was okay, but the real deal Blackface Fender amps sound much better.

The drive channels were terrible. very nasal and middy with the pull gain control. You couldn't get much gain until the gain control was pulled out and then it was mud city. Again the exceptions being the Super Champ and Concert. The drive channel on the SC sounds very good followed closely by the Concert. Except that the Concert is a 50-60 watt amp so to warm it up, you have to set the volume to ear bleeding levels. The SC was more manageable at 18-20 watts. But lots of modern amps sound much better, and are less expensive. The SC had an oddball preamp tube, long out of production and a weirdo compactron socket for the tube.

True, Rivera era Fenders were hand-wired on tag boards like the 50s and 60s Fenders, but if you've ever seen one of the Rivera-era Fenders, they look like a rats nest inside.

I guess I just don't get the worship those old Rivera-era amps inspire. I'm guessing that when the Blackface Fenders dried up, the Silverface amps became popular, and when those dried up, players are now looking to the last hand-wired Fenders made.

Just my own $.02 as a former owner.

[Bloozcat]

My own personal opinion, having owned a few of those: I think most of the Rivera-era Fender amps sound like crap. The exceptions being the Super Champ and the Rivera Concert. I owned a Super Champ, a Deluxe Reverb II and a Princeton Reverb II. I looked for a Concert for years, but never had the cash on hand when one came available.

I remember when those amps came out in the 80s, music stores had to sell them at cost to get rid of them. The clean sound was okay, but the real deal Blackface Fender amps sound much better.

The drive channels were terrible. very nasal and middy with the pull gain control. You couldn't get much gain until the gain control was pulled out and then it was mud city. Again the exceptions being the Super Champ and Concert. The drive channel on the SC sounds very good followed closely by the Concert. Except that the Concert is a 50-60 watt amp so to warm it up, you have to set the volume to ear bleeding levels. The SC was more manageable at 18-20 watts. But lots of modern amps sound much better, and are less expensive. The SC had an oddball preamp tube, long out of production and a weirdo compactron socket for the tube.

True, Rivera era Fenders were hand-wired on tag boards like the 50s and 60s Fenders, but if you've ever seen one of the Rivera-era Fenders, they look like a rats nest inside.

I guess I just don't get the worship those old Rivera-era amps inspire. I'm guessing that when the Blackface Fenders dried up, the Silverface amps became popular, and when those dried up, players are now looking to the last hand-wired Fenders made.

Just my own $.02 as a former owner.

I guess it's good that I didn't buy it then...:nope

IMHO, the guy wanted too much for it @$550.00 in the fair shape it's in. I found it to be a little too "farty" as many 6V6 based amps tend to be, and wasn't impressed enough with drive channel tone. Clean was nice, reverb sounded good, but with a 65 Band Master already in my music room, I've got Fender clean in spades.

[duhvoodooman]

My own personal opinion, having owned a few of those: I think most of the Rivera-era Fender amps sound like crap. The exceptions being the Super Champ and the Rivera Concert. I owned a Super Champ, a Deluxe Reverb II and a Princeton Reverb II. I looked for a Concert for years, but never had the cash on hand when one came available.

I remember when those amps came out in the 80s, music stores had to sell them at cost to get rid of them. The clean sound was okay, but the real deal Blackface Fender amps sound much better.

The drive channels were terrible. very nasal and middy with the pull gain control. You couldn't get much gain until the gain control was pulled out and then it was mud city. Again the exceptions being the Super Champ and Concert. The drive channel on the SC sounds very good followed closely by the Concert. Except that the Concert is a 50-60 watt amp so to warm it up, you have to set the volume to ear bleeding levels. The SC was more manageable at 18-20 watts. But lots of modern amps sound much better, and are less expensive. The SC had an oddball preamp tube, long out of production and a weirdo compactron socket for the tube.

True, Rivera era Fenders were hand-wired on tag boards like the 50s and 60s Fenders, but if you've ever seen one of the Rivera-era Fenders, they look like a rats nest inside.

I guess I just don't get the worship those old Rivera-era amps inspire. I'm guessing that when the Blackface Fenders dried up, the Silverface amps became popular, and when those dried up, players are now looking to the last hand-wired Fenders made.

Just my own $.02 as a former owner.
Tung, what do you know about the Champ 12? There's one of those up for sale on the Albany Craigslist today for $350. Looks very clean in the photo:

http://albany.craigslist.org/msg/1606391740.html

I'm not in the market, but I could make contact for an interested Fretter....

[tunghaichuan]

Tung, what do you know about the Champ 12? There's one of those up for sale on the Albany Craigslist today for $350. Looks very clean in the photo:

http://albany.craigslist.org/msg/1606391740.html

I'm not in the market, but I could make contact for an interested Fretter....

I would stay away from the Champ 12. It is typical late 80s-early 90s PCB construction. It sounds only okay, the reverb is weak, the clean only so-so and the OD channel is horrid. Even though it has a single 12" speaker, the amp sounds kind of boxy due to the small cabinet. I owned two of those, mainly because I didn't learn my lesson the first time around. :thwap

The Rivera-era Champ II might be worth looking at. It is based on the non-reverb Princeton circuit from the 60s & 70s, not the Champ circuit as the name would indicate. More info and a download link on this site (http://www.ampwares.com/amp.asp?id=44). It is a fairly simple circuit. It puts out about 18 watts, and looks like there are three gain stages ahead of the phase inverter, which is the cathodyne type. Could be a cool amp and would be fairly easy to build. I may have to build a copy of the circuit to see how it sounds.

Edit: Looks like Allen Amps (http://www.allenamps.com/minichassis.php) sells most of the components to recreate a Champ II. He has appropriate Heyboer transformers as well. :AOK