When is it time to give up on a guitar?

[Eric]

Some time ago, I purchased an Xaviere XV-900 with case from guitarfetish.com -- it's an ES-335 clone. I like the quality, love the upper fret access, and like the guitar overall. It has been great at home. However, the couple of times when I've brought it to church to play on Sundays with the full complement of people (we tend to play a brand of amplified guitar rock, very guitar-and-drum-centric, pretty loud), I have been somewhat underwhelmed. When playing for long periods of time and at high volumes, I feel like there's a little something missing from the lower-mid-to-bottom end, and the neck is a little thin for me -- my hand cramps up a bit.

Now, mind you, I didn't realize I need/like bottom end and a thicker neck until faced with the lack of those things. My usual guitar for these applications is an Agile AL-3100 LP copy, and while the heel gets in the way sometimes, it works pretty well (even if it is a bit on the heavy side). These are the sort of things that, even if I had played it in person and not ordered from online, I don't think I would have known. It's not until the drums are banging and the guitar gets cranked a bit that these issues really arise.

So I guess I'm wondering how much I should tweak to figure out this guitar, maybe learning the ins and outs and levels for everything, and at what point I should consider moving on. I still think it's a great guitar, but perhaps the semi-hollow just isn't for me. Thoughts? Am I just being too quick to judge?

Just looking for some input/perspective here...

[wingsdad]

Eric,
Sure, you could 'tweak' the sonic issue with a pickup change, or even with an eq pedal. I'm not inclined to think it's because it's a 335-type body style. In the end, it sounds to me like it's more a matter of the slim neck's not a good fit for your hand. And you can't 'tweak' that. If you prefer a heftier neck, then why not move on, find one you'll enjoy more?

[Eric]

Sure, you could 'tweak' the sonic issue with a pickup change, or even with an eq pedal. I'm not inclined to think it's because it's a 335-type body style. In the end, it sounds to me like it's more a matter of the slim neck's not a good fit for your hand. And you can't 'tweak' that. If you prefer a heftier neck, then why not move on, find one you'll enjoy more?
Well, when I said 'tweak' I was more referring to various EQs on boards or amps. I know not all guitars will behave the same way or have the same output level, so I'm allowing for the fact that perhaps I just have not yet found the sweet spot for me sound-wise on this guitar.

Also, it is really the sound that gets me, which is why I mentioned the tweaking idea. I feel like this guitar would work really really well if I was playing a bit cleaner, but that with certain sounds, I haven't figured out how to use it. I'm kind of fighting with it right now, though that's after only maybe 2-3 live uses.

It may be that I am just used to the behavior of the LP-type guitar, in which case I just need some quality time with this 335-ish one, but was wondering about some input on when you generally know if you're going to find a way to make it work.

Weird question, I know, but it seems to me that it's a question of personal experience, and I have not been much of a guitar "playa," if you will -- I have long-term relationships with most of my guitars.

[wingsdad]

... It may be that I am just used to the behavior of the LP-type guitar, in which case I just need some quality time with this 335-ish one, but was wondering about some input on when you generally know if you're going to find a way to make it work. ...
Well, then, if you can take that time to explore a gamut of eq settings, including tweaking the tone & vol pots on the guitar as an integral part of the equation that influences the amp's or whatever's settings, and accept that it becomes a matter of 'co-existing' with the XV-900's thin neck as opposed to the AL-3100's, you just might find a sweet spot or 3.

Have you tried experimenting with it with your ME-50's 'Tone Modify' presets, along with the ME's BD2 settings (especially that pedal's Tone knob)? Do this without an amp, using the ME as headphone amp only. You may be pleasantly surprised. It was this way that I found the sweet spots with my Epi Sheraton II.

A 335-type can do a lot that an LP can because of its center sustain block; but it won't get where a solid (vs. chambered) LP can go. OTH, it's the 'hollow' of the 'semi-hollow' that contributes a certain amount of acoustic harmonic overtones, even degreees of feedback, that a solid LP can't. This is why I prefer SH's to solids. As you've alluded to, it can come down to personal preference, and that's just mine. It didn't happen overnite.

FWIW: I've impatiently dumped guitars (almost all of them LP's) often without giving them a chance to grow on me. Usually, it was because I was infatuated with what they appeared to be.

[Eric]

Well, then, if you can take that time to explore a gamut of eq settings, including tweaking the tone & vol pots on the guitar as an integral part of the equation that influences the amp's or whatever's settings, and accept that it becomes a matter of 'co-existing' with the XV-900's thin neck as opposed to the AL-3100's, you just might find a sweet spot or 3.
I think that's what I'm going to end up doing, and knowing that it will take time is basically what I needed to hear. I may not mind the neck that much in the end -- for all I know, I was looking for reasons to be annoyed with it. I'll update once I have some more time with it.


Have you tried experimenting with it with your ME-50's 'Tone Modify' presets, along with the ME's BD2 settings (especially that pedal's Tone knob)? Do this without an amp, using the ME as headphone amp only. You may be pleasantly surprised. It was this way that I found the sweet spots with my Epi Sheraton II.
I have generally kept it parked on natural, going to the rat when I need some more bite. That, combined with a little spring reverb and the volume pedal, served me very well with the Agile.

The only time I've messed with the tone modify/mini-EQ is with an amp and generally in practice situations with the other instrumentalists, so it wasn't the best time to figure out how they changed things. I'll give these ideas a whirl -- thanks for the input.


FWIW: I've impatiently dumped guitars (almost all of them LP's) often without giving them a chance to grow on me. Usually, it was because I was infatuated with what they appeared to be.
Meaning the infatuation was before you played it and realized you didn't like the musical side of the guitar that much? Any regrets, or are you just commenting on the seductive power of guitar infatuation?

If it's the latter, I think I can safely say that's why I've made most of my purchases. Some have stuck big-time, some haven't (read: strats). I'm just trying to convince myself that it takes a little time to wrap your head around a new instrument.

[wingsdad]

...Meaning the infatuation was before you played it and realized you didn't like the musical side of the guitar that much? ...
Precisely:AOK I've never bought a guitar online. I've always test-driven them. However: Many didn't get taken out on the Freeway, with only a cursury test...their reputation or sexiness rushing the decision. Upon taking the mistress home and getting past the fantasy, only then did I wake up to find...less than I'd expected.


...Any regrets, or are you just commenting on the seductive power of guitar infatuation?...
Yes, that seduction factor to an extent, sometimes because it was great price leading to rationalization. Other than guitars I've had to lose due to financial binds or changes in life's direction, off the top of my head, the only guitar I can think of that I didn't try hard enough to grow into as a keeper over the past 10 years or so was a Gibson BluesHawk. But I gave it up early really to use it as collateral on a trade...and I've done so much of that, I can't immediately remember what for :thwap OTH,

... I'm just trying to convince myself that it takes a little time to wrap your head around a new instrument.
Indeed it does, Eric. There may come a point, though, that you realize a certain type just isn't your type; for me, that's an LP type. I recognized that fact after dumping what was probably my 10th or so (since 1978...2 Gibson Customs head the list of divorcees), this almost 2 years ago, an Ibanez ARC300, dumped for an Epi LP Standard, and then that dumped in turn with a Fender 62 Strat RI (pure reputation, looks and a steal of a price) straight-up for a G&L Comanche, sold regretfully due to a financial bind to a since-banished fretnetter here about 2 years ago.

[mainestratman]

Precisely:AOK I've never bought a guitar online. I've always test-driven them. However: Many didn't get taken out on the Freeway, with only a cursury test...their reputation or sexiness rushing the decision. Upon taking the mistress home and getting past the fantasy, only then did I wake up to find...less than I'd expected.

I gave my LP a 7-hour workout before buying it... the poor guy at the store (Daddy's) was laughing his *** off.. I'd have him adjust here, adjust there, then when I was happy with the action and intonation, he restrung it and I played it another hour.

My second Strat, though.. I walked into the music store, found a color I liked and walked out with it. It required some serious set-up on it, but I played that baby for probably 12 years. Great guitar. American Strat Deluxe-Plus or whatever.. lace sensor pickups.. those were nice. I miss that guitar. :-)

[Eric]

I gave my LP a 7-hour workout before buying it... the poor guy at the store (Daddy's) was laughing his *** off.. I'd have him adjust here, adjust there, then when I was happy with the action and intonation, he restrung it and I played it another hour.
Having only been all-in with electric guitars for about 2.5 years, I'm only now getting to the point where I have some idea of what I do and do not like . In some ways, onlines can be good for that, since they can be cheaper -- it would have been a mostly blind purchase even in person.

On another note, I just got out of a slow meeting where I tallied all of my guitar purchases and found the total amount of cash expended to be somewhere around $2600 (probably bump it up to $3000 to allow for some error). That's a bit less than I thought the total would be. I don't know what that has to do with anything, but I guess I found it to be worth a mention.

[Eric]

I've never bought a guitar online. I've always test-driven them. However: Many didn't get taken out on the Freeway, with only a cursory test...their reputation or sexiness rushing the decision. Upon taking the mistress home and getting past the fantasy, only then did I wake up to find...less than I'd expected.
That is exactly why I don't really trust myself in a guitar store. In the same way that a guitar tone that sounds great alone can be almost useless with a full band, I always wonder how my mood, the room acoustics, the amps/pedals, etc. are affecting my impression of a given guitar. I want to know how they'll perform on 'the freeway.'

[street music]

Eric,
I have a SX Custom Hollowbody that came with p90s in it and I kind of liked the sound at first and then it just kind of got boring as I could seem to find any new sound that impressed me without effects from pedals. So after some GFS pickups changes in it , twice, I finally have a sound that can go from clean country to dirty blues or classic rock, not really much towards a metal side. I had to dial the tone controls back and forth and adjust volumes till I finally started getting sweet spots and finally found the right string set too. It just seems to take some time to get the right feel from a hollowbody as compared to the solid or at least that is the way it has been for me.
Of all the guitars that I have right now if I had to sell or trade one off it would be this SX , not that I dislike it, it just has not bonded with me like the others.

[markb]

Thinner bottom and low mid is exactly how I'd describe the difference between a 335 and a Lester played cleanish. It usually evens out with a bit of eq or a bit of drive. For instance, listen to Live Cream and tell me which songs the other Eric is playing with the LP, the SG the 335 or the Firebird because I can't tell them apart with his amp tone.

OTOH if the neck's too small for your tastes you'll probably never be happy. Try to find something with more meat. I wouldn't give up on semis though, they are very versatile guitars. My Dot gets more playing time these days than either of my Fenders.

[iohanr]

My advice is leave it on the guitar stand for a few days/weeks and play a different guitar. When you come back to it, you will appreciate the "different" tone.

I know that's what I do whenever I get bogged down with trying to dial-in a sound in my head that I expect from a guitar. My MK was on the stand for weeks because I was enamored by my Agile and PRS SE and then when I came back to it, it suddenly sounded "better than I remember" just because I had gotten used to something else. Yes, it is completely psychological. :)

[Eric]

My advice is leave it on the guitar stand for a few days/weeks and play a different guitar. When you come back to it, you will appreciate the "different" tone.

I know that's what I do whenever I get bogged down with trying to dial-in a sound in my head that I expect from a guitar. My MK was on the stand for weeks because I was enamored by my Agile and PRS SE and then when I came back to it, it suddenly sounded "better than I remember" just because I had gotten used to something else. Yes, it is completely psychological. :)
I feel you on this. I was finally coming to some tones that I like this past week, but the conclusion I arrived at overall is similar to what you said: just let it hibernate for awhile and see how I like it later on.

I still think the SH may not be for me, but given some time, I'll hopefully have a more clear picture.