PDA

View Full Version : Questions on a Vox Valvetronics amp.



Duff
March 9th, 2010, 08:00 PM
I have always wanted to get a Valvetronics, esp. since I got my Vox DA5, but I am convinced that Valvetronics amps are unreliable, extremely complicated in their circuits, can be very expensive to get fixed, and are often unfixable.

I have often thought about picking up a valvetronics if I could find one on a great closeout sale or some other very inexpensive way because they are so fun to mess around with all the amp models and other effects and so on; especially since my Behringer GM110 awesome little analog modeling amp was stolen along with the other stuff.

Well the time has arrived where I have found a AD120VTX with the argyle type vintage style grill cloth instead of the chromie BBQ grill grate cover; along with all of the awesome buttons and knobs that tweak all sorts of things on the VTX that are not present on the chromies. And the Celestion Blue Dog speakers are also great and the amp is stereo. I'm excited about it and am in the middle of negotiating a price that should be close to 400 but not more than 400 and possibly less, 399 even would be a good price I'm pretty sure.

This particular amp is an AD120VTX 212 and is brand new, NOS, old stock. Super mint brand new item. They also have a an AD60VTX with just one of the speakers and less handles. Same control panel. These have preamp tubes, one I believe and sound almost like a tube amp and have dynamics a lot like, if not indistinguishable from a regular tube amp. The amp models were a LOT of fun to play with. The reverb and some other effects are separate from the other grouped effects, with their own speed and depth controls. There are four banks of preset saved settings that you can retrieve aparently by number, 32 presents I think, probably all user programmable. The auto wah was adjustable all the way up to very thick.

After messing with it with an Ibanez double cut AS200 gold top for about an hour I had only touched upon a mere fraction of the amps total interactability.

I like the two twelve in speaker 120 watt one best and wonder if the perceived loudness follows the 3 watts for every 1 solid state watt general rule of thumb, or if the 120 watts is roughly equivalent to 120 solid state watts.

Anyway, do any of you think that this is a great amp to have around? Do you think 400 is a good price on a brand new one of these considering the reputation for unreliability and expense of repair?

They also have the light blue Tonelab effects pedal for 200 NOS that is probably the equivalent of the preamp of the AD120VTX and can be used with any amp.

So I guess I'm asking you guys if you have respect for the AD120VTX and think that it might be a great amp to have at the house for regular bedside use. The attenuator goes all the way down to one watt.

I'm excited about it and asked the sales guy to hold the amp for me and that I'll pick it up in approx. one month and will put a down payment on it to lay it away.

If I change my mind he doesn't care if I transfer the down payment over to a more traditional and reliable amp like a Fender Supersonic or the JCM 2000 dual super lead that I can get for 1100.

These last two amps are awesome and targets of desire; however, getting a valvetronix, especially one that I see as being a superiorly designed valvetronix, at a really great price, is something that I don't think I should take lightly or pass up without some serious thought and seeking out some informed input from my fellow fretters.

Do any of you with experience with the Valvetronix amps have any input that you can give me that might help me out in making this decision? Your expertise, as always, is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Duffy

markb
March 9th, 2010, 10:09 PM
The Valvetronix amps have a unique power stage. The valve is used as a tiny power amp for tonal purposes and drives a solid state power stage that does the heavy lifting to the speakers.

120 watts is 120 watts (is loud). I've played through one or two 120-150 watt solid state amps and never got them above halfway for stage use. At least the Voxes have an attenuator.

The VTX series are the better Valvetronixes. They are basically the blue Tonelab with speakers. Some say they sound better than the others but I'd suspect that's due to the higher end Celestion speakers rather than any magic in the amp. They have more memory slots (a la multi effect) than the lower end VTs or ADVTs. As a one box solution they're great but you have no backup option if something fails on stage.

I'd be tempted to say it's too much amp but that's my taste. The newer VTxx series sound better to my ears and something like the 30 or 50 is plenty loud enough for most purposes. I've used an AD30VT in anger (drums bass, another guitar or two) on the AC15 model riding the guitar volume for clean/grit. Nobody complained that they couldn't hear me. Quite the opposite in fact :cool:

Radioboy950
March 9th, 2010, 10:10 PM
Gosh Duff...would be a tough call for me, even at a good price.

This discontinued line, as you know, has lots of reviews that say things like "sounds great when it's working"...etc.
That would scare me too.

I have a 112 50watt cheese grater, and the first one was bad out of the box.
The replacement has been great fun though.

50 watts at home is pretty darn loud, and I rarely get to go wide open.
The 120, 2X12 could break some windows.

Not to get too far off track.. I'd be inclined to put the money toward a decent, reliable, serviceable tube amp.

marnold
March 9th, 2010, 10:28 PM
I have always wanted to get a Valvetronics, esp. since I got my Vox DA5, but I am convinced that Valvetronics amps are unreliable, extremely complicated in their circuits, can be very expensive to get fixed, and are often unfixable.
What "convinced" you of that?

I can't comment on reliability other than the fact that I really haven't had any problems at all with my AD30VT. Realize that very few if any low-end amphs are "fixable" inasmuch as companies will just refuse to fix them. When I got my AD30VT, the store I got it from in Green Bay was an authorized Vox repair shop. Vox would pay to repair them. I don't know if that's still the case or not, but if it is, it is extraordinarily rare. Most companies--including Fender, Crate, and Ampeg--have gone to replace-only policies with their low-end amphs. Thus when the line is gone, so is any chance of doing anything with it if anything goes wrong.

The main two problems with the AD line could be fixed by either a reset or spritzing some contact cleaner on a cord plug and pushing it in and out of the line out a couple of times. I've heard good things about the VTX series but have no personal experience with them.

Duff
March 9th, 2010, 11:51 PM
Markb: You know, I played a new cheeze grater VT50 today and thought that the tone was better than the VTX as well. But these are complicated amps with a lot of set up variables, so a conclusion, for me, was not really substantiated. The gut feeling was that the VT sounded better though.

I might just put the money toward a real good tube amp. I have a few real good tube amps presently but would like another, possibly two twelve combo or a Marshall head, made in England good one likethe DSL 100 I have a line on.

Marnold: Convinced? My research over the years of the chromies, in specific and Valvetronics in general revealed a lot of complaints concerning reliability. Nevertheless, I have always wanted to get one, especially after getting the DA5 really nice little amp. The VTX today was a LOT of fun to play and mess around with. There are a lot of great tones in there and it sounded better than I had anticipated it would. Sounded better than the two Marshall Haze amps I also played today: the fourty watt combo and the fifteen watt head. The fifteen watt head sounded better to me but it costs almost six hundred dollars and I didn't think it was up to that price. I'd rather get the dual super lead and pay the extra money; or get a Bugera 22 watt combo or something a lot more economical but probably a lot better sounding and sensible.

I have heard the reset takes care of a lot of the problems and that some
de-ox in the input plug works wonders.

The VTX started making some expensive sounding noises today at higher volumes and it had me concerned so I investigated as best I could and discovered that the middle handle, the one on the top of the 120 was resonating sympathatically to the frequency at certain bass frets. Touching it eliminated the problem, or pulling it up; but at first it sounded like a ripped speaker cone.

I can see getting this VTX 120 because it would be fun, especially if I can get it for 399; but I'm not sure yet about this because there are so many nice options out there; like the Blues Junior. They have the Texas Red one here with the Vintage 30 that is a cool little amp. No deal on that one though, brand new stock.

I need to investigate the Fender Twin and Deluxe Reverb contemporary versions that they have in stock as well as the Blues Devilles. I played the Tweed Blues Deluxe today and that was a neat amp but a lot like my Hot Rod Deluxe special edition tweed with the Jensen P12n speaker.

I have still got to figure out what people think is so great about the Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb by playing them some more with single coils and humbuckers, etc.

That Fender Supersonic, however, is one great amp and the one they have on special is right in the same price range as the Twin or the Deville and has a Vintage 30 in it and a BURN switch that rips some stunning tone.

They had a Fender Princeton Chorus, used, but it doesn't work and is going back to the guy that has it there on consignment.

No need to rush at this point anyway. I will find something real good eventually that really gets my attention and the time will be right.

That Blue vintage looking VTX 212 definitely is fun. No question about that. And it rocks the house with a whole lot of great sounds and isn't like anything else I have with any major amount of power. It could be great to have. I will have to think about it. Play it some more. The store is like two blocks from my house since I moved.

Next acquisition, however, is the JamMan brand new last run of the old style that just came in and I have on lay away until later in the month. I'm hoping that will be fun. My fiance is now singing thru my PA with vocal effects and her voice is beautiful. I will be learning how to lay down some Conga back beats or cymbal intricacies and some mellow guitar loops that I can play some light complimentary leads over and try to record something like, "Make You Feel My Love", or "Imagine". Sounds like a fun experiment. Lots of rehearsal needed first however. No rush to recording but I'm definitely looking forward to the looper and learning how to make some effective use of it.

markb
March 10th, 2010, 02:13 AM
I wouldn't bother with a Princeton Chorus and I like solid state amps. Personally I'd have a lot more fun with a good OD pedal and a Blues Jr than any number of modelling amps. That's mostly because I'd get on and play with that rig and not get bogged down in the sound shaping possibilities (disclaimer: I gigged a BJ and a TS808RI for three years and a Pro Jr and TS5 for a while before that. No problems being heard with either rig).

SuperSwede
March 10th, 2010, 03:26 AM
I havet had any problems with my VT50. Some amph models really shine, and I suspect that the built in speaker is more AC30´ish and that the high gain models would sound better through a ext cab with different speakers.

Duff
March 10th, 2010, 08:41 AM
Markb,

I am leaning that way, towards a highly fixable Blues Junior or Blues Deville, but the Blue non cheeze grater Valvetronix is an awesome looking and sounding computer.

I want to get another big ish amp so the Blues Junior is too much in the range of my SCXD.

Maybe I'll try the Bugera. Spud seems to have luck with it. The Blues Deluxe is like the Hot Rod Deluxe, it gets super loud at the slightest touch of the volume knob and I don't know the fix.

Anyone know the fix?

duhvoodooman
March 10th, 2010, 08:59 AM
The Blues Deluxe is like the Hot Rod Deluxe, it gets super loud at the slightest touch of the volume knob and I don't know the fix.

Anyone know the fix?
Fender amps are famous for this. Standard fix is to replace the linear taper volume pot with an audio taper.

Duff
March 10th, 2010, 04:28 PM
I was told that there is more to the volume sensitivity issue with the HRDx than changing the pot and that this is not the solution.

Is there any truth to this?

This was stated to me by a professional amp repairman certified to repair Fender and a whole lot of other amps.

I can't remember his rationale.

Duffy

Tarin
March 10th, 2010, 10:37 PM
I've had lots of amps and pedals in the few years i have playing guitar (bedroom rockstar), and the only gear i get stuck with is always Vox stuff.
I've had two AD's, a 30 and a 15... the AD15 sold already and i'm about to leto go the AD30 because of this Tonelab ST pedal i just got... this my solution:
Get a Tonelab ST pedal and a Roland PA/keyboard amp (65 or 100 watts) and you're done.
The Tonelab ST is very simple to use (compared to the Digitech RP355 i had), sounds great and has the same or more emulators of the Valvetronix line.
This pedal thru a Roland keyboard amp and you don't have to worry about your amp coloring the emulators voice.

Quick and simple... take all your amps on a small pedal (for jamming and small gigs of course).

TS808
March 11th, 2010, 01:32 PM
Personally, I haven't had any problems with the Valvetronix amps. I still own an AD50VT 212 and after selling one, I wound up getting another. It's a great amp and alot of fun. Although the VTX series are an awesome choice, 120 watts IS loud.

I'm going to toss a wrench into this now...

I recently picked up a Line 6 Spider IV and have had it now for over a month.
The tones and the FEEL are better than any modeler I've played so far, including the Vox. Line 6 has been releasing updates to the firmware too so it just keeps sounding better and better.

Seriously, alot of folks frown on the Spiders, but the new Spider IV's are unlike any other modeler I've played, including the Vox. Again, what suprised me the most about the Spider is the FEEL of the amp...very tubelike, warm and none of that digital harshness like on some other amps.

Duff
March 12th, 2010, 07:27 AM
TS808,

The AD120VTX I have a line on is new and should have the factory warranty. In fact it does, I just called Vox. They can apparently still be fixed to some degree.

The Vox guy was vague and said "personal preference" when I asked him about quality of build, etc. He said that they are well built as are all vox products and pushed his new VT line but embraced to core value of the "valve reactor" being a common element.

I like this AD120VTX, the classic vibe of it, and the tones. There are a lot of tones that I got out of it with just surface surfing the amp. I think it would make a great high power home use amp and it even has an attenuator plus it's stereo and has an extension speaker out, but it looks like you have to disconnect the internal speaker in order to use and extension speaker. Anyone know for sure?

If I can get this amp at a great deal of around 400 do you think it would be an outstanding or just mediocre deal?

Remember, it's discontinued for quite some time and is super complicated in its circuitry. Not user serviceable to much of any extent at all I woud not assume.

Plus there are other amp options out there that are seemingly great deals for 400 US. Like the Bugera Spud talks about, a real tube amp and probably does not have a reliability history anywhere near the VTX.

I'm in no rush and want to really check this amp out and compare it to some other options.

Ideas are appreciated.

marnold
March 12th, 2010, 09:05 AM
From a price standpoint it would be a good deal since I believe the amp original sold for over $1000. On the other hand, you seem to give an awful lot of reasons not to get it and very few reasons to get it. The answer then would seem obvious.

If you're also talking about Bugera/Behringer I can guarantee that the general opinion out there will be as bad or worse than that of the Vox, Spud's experience notwithstanding. Pretty much any amp under $1000 is going to fall under the "disposable" category as far as official repair goes. Having said that, guys like Bitmo seem to have a good handle on these little tube amphs like Blackheart, Valve Jr., etc. (I hear that Jet City will be supporting their modding efforts too.) Big communities have cropped up around these amphs so the chances are that someone might know how to fix it--even if you might have to get your hands dirty.

When I got my Jet City I took a bit of a shot in the dark. Since they're new, there's no word on reliability. I listened to clips, talked with guys who know amphs about how the gut shots look, and finally trusted that Mike Soldano wouldn't slap his name on crap. Only time will tell if I made the right decision from a reliability standpoint.

Duff
March 12th, 2010, 08:39 PM
Marnold: I am not totally reasoning negatively against the VTX valvetronix. I have considered the amp as an option to buy for about five years now.

I dismissed it as an option for most purposes because of its expense and the recurring feedback I ran into regarding unreliability. Even though it is supposed to be more reliable than the chromies, according to a lot of what I read. You have probably read the horror stories too.

I think also that the negative reports are what we see, while the people that have great experiences with the amps have remained largely annonymous or impartial and happy with their amphs.

Some of my friends have chromies and are very happy. One friend has a ad50 that he has been highly happy with and has gigged with it extensively and has kicked it around like a road warrior, without it having the slightest of problems. One of his points of interest in picking the amp was the protective and durable chrome metal grill cover that has made life on the road a lot easier on his anxiety level concerning his amp getting wrecked. He speaks very highly about it and never had a problem with it.

After waiting a long time and reconsidering the amp for years I have finally sealed the deal and will be picking up the amp tomorrow for 400 out the door, brand new NOS. I look forward to it with excitement because I have wanted to get the amp for years.

Also, it will be a bedside amp with some whomp to it (I live in the country) and it will be a beautiful compliment to our bedroom decor, with its beautiful blue hues and vintage grill cloth and mellow vibe. I will play thru it every day, especially at night and the attenuator should prove useful.

I think it is a real good looking amp with the classic Vox vibe and some awesome sounds coming thru those two twelve inch Celestions. It can really rumble and roar, causing everything nearby to resonate and sympathetically vibrate and rattle.

I know to some extent what I'm getting and I like it. It is a powerful amp and can chime like bells and growl like a large animal. The dynamics of the amp are surprisingly great. You can dig in just like a tube amp and get some dynamic depth and drive. You can play soft and clean or loud and really driving, lots of different driving sounds, mostly all very pleasant and rewarding.

I look forward to enjoying the amp tremendously. It has survived the test of time to this point and hopefully will have a long useful life. It will basically be one of my stationary amps and not have to experience a lot of moving around. This should fill this role really well with all the tweakability and sounds that should be readily available right at bedside without messing around with batteries, cables, etc., and allow for a lot of additional playing time instead of messing around with distortion pedals, etc. It will put a whole lot of variables right at my fingertips, that I'll have to learn about. It will be super fun I'm sure and I'm sure I will try out the much recommended eq in the effects loop.

I'm glad I made the decision to get the ad120vtx and got it at such a great price. All of the complexities about it that I have voiced my concerns over will be there for me to experiment with. I can only imagine that it will take a very very long time to master some of the many many interactive dynamics of this very nice great big amp.

I look forward to exploring the stereo aspects of the amp and seeing how it works with an extension cabinet.

Anyone have one of these AD120VTX's that has delved quite far into it? I would love to hear about some of your findings and things you like about it.

Happy about my decision to get a Vox valvetronix, and appreciative of all of the descriptive knowledge you guys have shared with me concerning the amp.

I will definitely be posting some pictures of it and one of my new guitars while I try out my new digital SLR, Nikon D5000 with two zoom lenses, one the 18 to 55 mm lens that should get some good close in shots.

Duffy

Duffy
March 14th, 2010, 02:30 AM
I'm not getting much feedback on these valvetronics here.

I might have to take my time and cruise around for some other amp possibilities like the Fenders. The hot rod DeVille sounds like a nice amp.

The V22 Bugera sounds decent and not expensive.

Probably some other great Fender tube amps I should look at.

This blue VTX keeps entering into my frame of reference though and reaching out.

I'm thinking though, Why did it sit in the store for so many years? How does sitting in a store for all those years affect the resistors and capacitors and boards and such? Do the caps and resistors and other components dry out and get marginal?

Current is expected to flow thru these things. How does sitting there with no current flowing thru them for years affect their quality?

400 for an AD120VTX sounds like a remarkable deal, yet I don't see too many people feeding back to me on it with, "Jump on it", responses. Maybe it's not as great a deal as I think it is.

Can any of you amp experts advise me here? I can put my four hundred toward a Fender hot rod DeVille or another amp real easy and get a different amp next week instead.

Any educated advice?

Duffy

Tig
March 14th, 2010, 03:49 AM
Try the best of both worlds...
Get Hotrod series Fender and a VOX Tonelab ST multi-effects system in front of it.
The $200 ST shares the goodies that the VTX's have, plus an expression pedal and a better interface.
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/5/4/5/636545.jpg

Radioboy950
March 14th, 2010, 02:58 PM
I'm not getting much feedback on these valvetronics here.

This blue VTX keeps entering into my frame of reference though and reaching out.

400 for an AD120VTX sounds like a remarkable deal
Duffy

I'd say you received lots of valuable feedback...maybe not specific to that one amp, but good feedback nonetheless.
Sounds like you really want the amp...jump on it.