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[deeaa]

Hello, please any comments, how do you find the song/sounds?

The bass is just a beta as of yet and drums will be replayed too, so solo yet, but the basic guitar and vocals are 90% there...just sang the chorus doubles now.

http://deeaa.pp.fi/lzm/CanWait/CanWait_shakeit.mp3

Cheers!

[deeaa]

And oh, I might add it's all 100% recorded direct to PC, no guitar amps or anything besides my DAW were hurt in the process. Electric drumkit and amplitube 3 the main weapons.

[Eric]

I like it, and there's a lot of neat guitar work in there. Tone-wise, I liked the rhythm guitar for pretty much the entire song. Wasn't really sure what direction the song was going for much of it, because the chorus or other parts weren't real obvious, but it was good.

Specific comments below. Just my thoughts, particularly going for constructive critique, so don't take them too seriously.



weird intro effect-y guitar, a little weak (0:08)
could just shorten up drum intro and lose the tremolo guitar
nice rhythm guitar tone and spurty rhythm, good contrast
when bass first comes in, a little uptight due to the weird drumming transition. could be smoother (0:21)
cool emotional release on pre-chorus (0:34)
nice bass tone once the song gets going (~0:45)
neat little ascending lick on chorus or bridge (1:13)
not sure about end of bridge (1:34)
didn't bother to understand the lyrics
keep waiting for it to break or for a chorus to come, never really did -- not bad, just kind of threw me for a loop
a lot of tension overall, which can be a good thing
long pause before the solo (2:35)
liked the second part of the solo (2:52), though the end was a little rough (3:02)
expected the solo to layer a little bit more than it did
kind of clunky breakdown (3:05)
nice intro after breakdown (3:10)
bass was a little late entering around 3:25

[marnold]

I like it in general. The drums sound placeholder but you get the drift.

[deeaa]

weird intro effect-y guitar, a little weak (0:08)
could just shorten up drum intro and lose the tremolo guitar
nice rhythm guitar tone and spurty rhythm, good contrast
when bass first comes in, a little uptight due to the weird drumming transition. could be smoother (0:21)
cool emotional release on pre-chorus (0:34)
nice bass tone once the song gets going (~0:45)
neat little ascending lick on chorus or bridge (1:13)
not sure about end of bridge (1:34)
didn't bother to understand the lyrics
keep waiting for it to break or for a chorus to come, never really did -- not bad, just kind of threw me for a loop
a lot of tension overall, which can be a good thing
long pause before the solo (2:35)
liked the second part of the solo (2:52), though the end was a little rough (3:02)
expected the solo to layer a little bit more than it did
kind of clunky breakdown (3:05)
nice intro after breakdown (3:10)
bass was a little late entering around 3:25


Thanks! This kind of comments are exactly what I was hoping for.

The intro first - gonna drop the drums completely in the intro (they are a machine placeholder just now, there will be 'real' played digidrums soon, and bass should start with the guitar, or at least sooner anyway, before the vox I think. The tremolo guitar should start just seconds before the vox.

The whole intro sequence rhythm with the bass doesn't work - the bassist didn't really get the division, as it starts with 4 not one on bass, so the bass indeed needs be redone.

It's most interesting that you felt the 1:34 part as bridge, but I see it as chorus instead. I'm not very happy with the chorus as of yet, or the bridge, however it's seen. It will have a second guitar though, a pretty hard sort of late Pearl Jam style or almost grunge guitar to back up the chorus (with the hack beat and ends with the 'Shake it away!' line I mean) but something there is still missing something. As you said, one keeps waiting for something more to happen.

I know this won't be such a 'hit potential' song when compared to a few others of late we've made (Lemonade, Chemical, Dear You...I've posted some beta versions of those too...well 'Lemonade' is here, http://deeaa.pp.fi/lzm/Lemonade/lemondemo_19_4_2010.mp3 it's pretty much ready BUT still lacks the 2nd guitar and solo entirely: ) but this particular song right here should be more hard-hitting I think, more grunge...

How do you think, the pre-chorus with the riff, ('sometimes I feel'...part at 1:14 fort example), do you think it'd be better if I added some loud driven chords in the background and went for a MUCH harder singing style, towards like FooFighters etc? Then it would go into the hackbeat chorus which would have even harder guitars? It might mean entirely different drums but the drummer is happy to play a dozen times or variations if need be, he's kind of a perfectionist when he gets going :-)

Anyway, that's the option I'm thinking of right now, make it much harder and grungier in the bridge/chorus section...think it'd work better? The other option is to make it even lighter...I could also change the bridge lyrics some into something more 'hitting' and better hearable (If I can think of any...)

You're right about the solo parts as well, they're empty as the Sahara as of yet :-) there should be a proper blistering solo soon(ish? I hope..and probably some other guitar work...now there's just my rhythm guitars there) but I haven't heard of the lead guitarist in ages...he hasn't really yet submitted anything to any of the songs we've done, but I'm expecting good stuff when he does. He played in one of my bands in the 90's and was probably the best guitarist I ever worked with, brilliant player, stylewise very much like the guy in Saigon Kick. Hope he hasn't lost the touch...

Anyway, thanks a LOT for the comments Eric, they definitely helped me make some decisions and confirmed my feel of the song too...lemme know how you feel about the much more grunge factor idea...

[jpfeifer]

Hi Dee,

I really like the way the two guitar parts play off each other. One part is kind of a tremolo-sound and holds down the center. Then the other is more punchy coming in and out of the mix to accent (this is great use of the different guitar tones to add). Then there is a third part that sounds like clean picked-chordal parts, and the bass line follows this one (cool). Very good use of different guitar tones to add interest. The only thing that I would do is double those punchier guitar parts and pan them Left/Right. This will really help them to stand out. But I would leave that tremolo part panned in the middle as you already have (it sounds great right behind the vocal to add consistency)

The other parts seemed to be all panned to the same side. I would pan some of them more toward the other side so that when the various sections of the song change, there are new "characters" (i.e. instrument parts) entering the sound scape from the Right versus the Left, etc. Your guitar parts are very nicely done.

The vocals sort of remind me a little of David Bowie in some ways. The vocals really fit the song and I really like how you have doubled them in certain areas to help to change the tone for various sections.

All in all it sounds really nice. When you re-record the drum part it will be even better, but I think that it is a good idea to play through your arrangement like this with a scratch drum track first, just to get the song arranged, etc. Then go back and put in a more interesting drum part, with fills, after you know where all of your breaks and changes are, etc. (this is the same way that I like to do it)

--Jim

[deeaa]

Thanks! I'm itching to add a second guitar myself already, but I feel like I must wait for the lead guitarist's input - maybe he has some 2nd guitar ideas beside the solo as well.

I seem to get the Bowie comparison a lot over a loooong time...well, I'm not a fan of his style myself but I guess I must sound a bit the same, then :-) I have sometimes sung some of his songs like Starman etc. Sometimes, when I sing real high, I get Queensryche comparisons and I don't like that singing either. Oh well, maybe it's because it does sound a bit like me and I don't love my own sound so much usually :-) I wish I sounded more like Dave Grohl if someone, LOL.

[jpfeifer]

Hi Dee,

You shouldn't be self concious about your vocal sound at all. It really works well! The key is to take advantage of its unique qualities. Even John Lennon hated the sound of his own voice (if that is any consolation). In his mind if he didn't sound just like Elvis then he wasn't getting the sound he wanted, but he had such a unique sound and George Martin used to tell him how great it sounded, but it was always a sore spot for him.

Your upper facetto range works great, especially with that doubled sound.

Are you recording your vocal with any compression, and are you using a condenser mic (large diaphram condenser hopefully)? If not, then this would be a really good thing to try out if you can. Your tone will change a lot with the right kind of mic and compression settings.

I liking those guitar parts a lot, so hopefully you will get to keep those. Those parts really play well off of each other.

--Jim

[deeaa]

Yes, I have a pretty good recording setup for vox...I use an AKG 414 B-ULS large diaphragm mic and a DBX 387 tube channel strip with which I record with a melloe 2:1 compression. Sometimes I use an SM57 though when I record at the DAW not farther away as the AKG picks up sounds too well when close to noise.

But I haven't ever really known how to EQ my own voice. Whenever someone else mixes my vocal tracks, I like 'em 100% better :-( I guess it's normal to not know how to mix your own voice because it's too familiar or something.

[Eric]

Thanks! This kind of comments are exactly what I was hoping for.

The intro first - gonna drop the drums completely in the intro (they are a machine placeholder just now, there will be 'real' played digidrums soon, and bass should start with the guitar, or at least sooner anyway, before the vox I think. The tremolo guitar should start just seconds before the vox.

The whole intro sequence rhythm with the bass doesn't work - the bassist didn't really get the division, as it starts with 4 not one on bass, so the bass indeed needs be redone.

It's most interesting that you felt the 1:34 part as bridge, but I see it as chorus instead.
Well, I noted that I wasn't real clear on what was where in the song. Now that you've pointed it out, it makes sense. I was kind of wondering if that was considered the chorus, since there otherwise wasn't a real obvious chorus in the song.


I'm not very happy with the chorus as of yet, or the bridge, however it's seen. It will have a second guitar though, a pretty hard sort of late Pearl Jam style or almost grunge guitar to back up the chorus (with the hack beat and ends with the 'Shake it away!' line I mean) but something there is still missing something. As you said, one keeps waiting for something more to happen.
I don't like to make every song into soft-verse/loud-chorus, and I like different song constructs if you can pull them off. So I hesitate to say the chorus needs to be louder or grungier or anything. Stronger would be the obvious choice, but also, I'm not sure your vocal melody in the chorus really lends itself to loud guitar, and I like the guitar lead underneath the vocals, so I wouldn't want to drown that out.

Basically, I can't immediately envision how you could make the chorus a lot stronger without completely turning it on its head, and you already have some good things going on there as it is.


I know this won't be such a 'hit potential' song when compared to a few others of late we've made (Lemonade, Chemical, Dear You...I've posted some beta versions of those too...well 'Lemonade' is here, http://deeaa.pp.fi/lzm/Lemonade/lemondemo_19_4_2010.mp3 it's pretty much ready BUT still lacks the 2nd guitar and solo entirely: ) but this particular song right here should be more hard-hitting I think, more grunge...

How do you think, the pre-chorus with the riff, ('sometimes I feel'...part at 1:14 fort example), do you think it'd be better if I added some loud driven chords in the background and went for a MUCH harder singing style, towards like FooFighters etc? Then it would go into the hackbeat chorus which would have even harder guitars? It might mean entirely different drums but the drummer is happy to play a dozen times or variations if need be, he's kind of a perfectionist when he gets going :-)
I guess I'd have to hear it. So to me, I was now thinking 1:14 was the start of the chorus, and it ended around 1:35 and went back into the verse. Is that actually two different parts?

Like I said above, you have some cool things going on in that 'chorus' (1:14-1:35) part, but upon first listen, it is definitely the awkward part of the song right now. I personally think you could make it work if you get the transitions a little smoother, like guide the listener's ear into that part a little more.


Anyway, that's the option I'm thinking of right now, make it much harder and grungier in the bridge/chorus section...think it'd work better? The other option is to make it even lighter...I could also change the bridge lyrics some into something more 'hitting' and better hearable (If I can think of any...)
Probably worth a spin. It would be more in line with your typical rock song, anyway.

[deeaa]

good points! I think Ill try some a little harder and more rhytmical vox in the pre-chorus...and drums should better ease the transitions...ill post back when i get a change to update it...

[deeaa]

Allright! Now I have new vocals. I opted to change the first pre-chorus completely but then the last choruses employ two different melodies intertwined and I like it much much better now. Also changed the start completely, much shorter, and added a new guitar thing in the pre-chorus to give it some more grooviness. Also fixed some bass issues. Still needs a hella lotta mixing and I have no volume curves or effect changes there or anything, but the basic structure I think is about there now - pending any lead/2nd guitar issues that might change things still.

Thanks again for your input, it really pushed me to make some well needed changes! I'll get back to this when I get the 2nd guitar.

Here's how it's now:
http://deeaa.pp.fi/lzm/CanWait/ShakeItAwayDemo2.mp3

[Eric]

Allright! Now I have new vocals. I opted to change the first pre-chorus completely but then the last choruses employ two different melodies intertwined and I like it much much better now. Also changed the start completely, much shorter, and added a new guitar thing in the pre-chorus to give it some more grooviness. Also fixed some bass issues. Still needs a hella lotta mixing and I have no volume curves or effect changes there or anything, but the basic structure I think is about there now - pending any lead/2nd guitar issues that might change things still.
Nice. Much better on the intro and chorus.

I think the thing that got me initially was that there was all of this build-up/tension but no release. Kinda reminded me of Mucky Fingers by Oasis. I think the new version does a better job of this, particularly with the descending vocals near the end of the chorus.

Cool song. I found myself humming it today.