NFL Draft 2010

[R_of_G]

First round is now in the books.

I would imagine Marnold has to be pretty happy right now. There was little doubt the Lions would get Suh with the #2 pick and that alone is enough to be a bright spot for the future, but I thought the Lions did well for themselves moving back into the first round late to pick up Jahvid Best. Suddenly, Detroit has a pretty interesting running game to put out there. We all know "the run sets up the pass" so having a strong running game will allow Stafford to develop more in his second year. Honestly, with some of the free agents they've signed, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Lions win 6 games this year and be competitive in many of their losses. They are on their way up for sure.

As for my two teams...

The Jets surprised me, but I am still quite pleased. With the utter waste of a pick three years ago on Vernon Gholston and the inability of Calvin Pace to pick up Rex's system, the Jets really need help from a pass rushing OLB. I never thought Sergio Kindle would still be on the board at #29 so my dad and I were hoping we could land TCU's Jerry Hughes. When Miami picked at 28 at didn't take either of them, I nearly burst realizing we'd get one of them for sure. Then they took Kyle Wilson, a CB from Boise State. Not the position I wanted them to take first, but if they were taking a corner, I am glad it was Wilson. I had him ranked as the best CB in the draft. I heard Cleveland was debating between Wilson and Haden (they picked Haden) and the deciding factor for Holmgren was that Haden played in the SEC while Wilson played for Boise State. More of this "better conference" nonsense. Haden may come from the "better" conference, but Holmgren isn't the sage he thinks he is. Wilson played in the wide-open air it out WAC where everyone throws the ball all the time and was still a shut-down corner. Rex's defense, while most people think it's all about the blitz, only works because the secondary is as tight as a drum. Wilson will only help with that.

As for my other team, any Bucs fan that is not happy today knows nothing about football. Bradford was #1 because the Rams fell for the "have to get a QB #1" trap. Suh was the big name defensive guy and he is worth every bit of praise he gets, the kid can play. But, almost every piece of analysis I read or heard said Gerald McCoy was the best player in the draft and now he's a Buc. He will fit perfectly into their defensive scheme and I expect him to progress nicely over his first few years to be a major impact player.

So how did your team fare?

[marnold]

I would imagine Marnold has to be pretty happy right now. There was little doubt the Lions would get Suh with the #2 pick and that alone is enough to be a bright spot for the future, but I thought the Lions did well for themselves moving back into the first round late to pick up Jahvid Best. Suddenly, Detroit has a pretty interesting running game to put out there. We all know "the run sets up the pass" so having a strong running game will allow Stafford to develop more in his second year. Honestly, with some of the free agents they've signed, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Lions win 6 games this year and be competitive in many of their losses. They are on their way up for sure.
After the season before last, we literally have nowhere to go but up!

I guess I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic. I wanted them to draft Suh, especially after seeing him be a one-man wrecking crew in the Big 12 championship. He also seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders. With the free agent additions of Kyle Vanden Bosch and Corey Williams, the Lions might have a pretty good d-line next year, especially if Sammie Hill can continue to improve.

I was surprised that the Vikes were willing to work with the Lions to trade up. Best has the "home run" ability that Kevin Smith doesn't. The concussion concerns me, but he's supposed to be OK.

All of this is tempered by the fact that I've been pretty keyed with drafts past too. It's an absolute nightmare to see how few players remain that Millen drafted. When they traded Ernie Sims to the Eagles, their entire 2006 draft is gone. As a matter of fact, no one is left from the 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 drafts either. From 2001 they still have Backus and Raiola. I'd imagine that Drew Stanton's days are numbered (thought that pick was a MASSIVE waste at the time) which would leave only Calvin Johnson and Manny Ramirez from the 2007 draft. If you want to learn how to drive a franchise into the ground, that's the way.

The irony is that Detroit has gotten consistently good grades for their drafts all along. Shows you how much the talking heads (or anyone else for that matter) really knows.

[R_of_G]

The irony is that Detroit has gotten consistently good grades for their drafts all along. Shows you how much the talking heads (or anyone else for that matter) really knows.

Absolutely. I think if you really want to evaluate a draft class, do it five years after they've been drafted (about the length of their first contracts). By that time, we should be able to see if the kid can play or not, at least in the system into which he was drafted.

Oh, and did anyone think for a second that Al Davis died or something last night? Why? Because for the first time I can recall, the Raiders' first pick actually made sense. Linebacker might not be their biggest need, but if you were going to take a LB early in this draft, McClain was the guy. Given their past surprises (like taking Heyward-Bey early last year) I was convinced the Raiders would pull the trigger on Tim Tebow with that pick but I suppose he's the Broncos' cross to bear now.

[Eric]

When they traded Ernie Sims to the Eagles, their entire 2006 draft is gone.
So yeah, about Ernie Sims: what's the deal? Is he going to be worthwhile, just having been stuck in the wrong position, does he have injury problems, or is he just a clunker who was dead weight? I was under the impression that he was very well thought of at one point, so I was curious why the Lions traded him.

I think drafts are usually crapshoots. For a long time, Denver repeatedly whiffed on their first-rounders but got decent players from the later rounds (~2-6), and they did well as a team during that time. Meanwhile, as you say, the Lions can get good draft grades and still end up with no players from those drafts on their roster just a few years later.

IMO it doesn't really matter what the obvious pick or need area or best talent available is. Generally you just have to wait and see. Some people may think they know, but many "locks" have been busts many many times. Andre Wadsworth? David Terrell? Mike Williams (either)? Joey Harrington? I think these were all viewed as good picks at the time. The list goes on and on and on...

That having been said, supposedly Brandon Graham is a good player, and hopefully he'll work out well for the Eagles. We'll see.

[piebaldpython]

I was convinced the Raiders would pull the trigger on Tim Tebow with that pick but I suppose he's the Broncos' cross to bear now.

Do you really consider Tebow a "cross to bear"? He would be pretty much perfect for any West Coast-style offense. With his size, leadership capabilities, and desire to learn........I don't really see a downside to Tebow. He can learn to be a better passer and he WANTS to be, so they'll get him some proper tutelage and he'll be fine. You can't teach a "nose for the end-zone" though and he has that in spades.

[Eric]

Do you really consider Tebow a "cross to bear"? He would be pretty much perfect for any West Coast-style offense. With his size, leadership capabilities, and desire to learn........I don't really see a downside to Tebow. He can learn to be a better passer and he WANTS to be, so they'll get him some proper tutelage and he'll be fine. You can't teach a "nose for the end-zone" though and he has that in spades.
You know, I honestly have NO idea about Tebow. I truly truly want to see him succeed, and there's no real reason why he can't, but opinions are so split on him...I just hope it winds up being a good situation for him and that he does well.

Seriously, I would not be surprised at all if he flopped or became a regular pro-bowler.

[R_of_G]

Do you really consider Tebow a "cross to bear"? He would be pretty much perfect for any West Coast-style offense. With his size, leadership capabilities, and desire to learn........I don't really see a downside to Tebow. He can learn to be a better passer and he WANTS to be, so they'll get him some proper tutelage and he'll be fine. You can't teach a "nose for the end-zone" though and he has that in spades.

Yes, I do. I don't think he can be an NFL starting QB with his current skill set. I'm sure he WANTS to be a better player, most of these kids do. That doesn't mean he can do it. ALL rookie QBs get tutelage when they come out and not all of them develop. It's simply a statistical fact, they can't all be great NFL players. I have seen QBs that were already more ready than he is fail to make it, even with tutelage.

I am sure he will try his best, that's the Tebow way, and more power to him but I grew tired of hearing the analysts talk about how he's a harder worker than anyone else. Cris Carter put that to rest early in the afternoon pre-show by saying that the NFL has 1,600 players all of whom work their butts off so stop saying Tebow will work harder than any of them because it's insulting.

The "leadership capabilities" thing is another thing I heard a Hall of Famer dispute yesterday, a Broncos' Hall of Famer at that. Gruden kept talking about what a great leader he was. Tom Jackson told him that if the kid doesn't get on the field, nobody will give a damn what he says in the locker room. So really, was he drafted to start at QB? Not any time soon. He's not anywhere near as capable as Orton. So what does that leave, 5-6 plays per game in the Wildcat? That was worth a #25 pick with guys like Sergio Kindle and Jerry Hughes on the board? Good luck Denver, you'll need it.

As for his nose for the end-zone, the obstacles in between #15 and the goal line will be a lot bigger and a lot faster than anything he's seen before. Tebow is not a finesse runner. He bowled people over. It worked great in college. Let's see him try that against NFL linebackers.

So we shall see. I don't know anymore than anyone, but I have my opinion. I live in Florida so I watched the kids' whole career. I don't see an NFL QB. I have seen this type of player before (like every Nebraska QB of the 80's and 90's). If Tommy Frazier wasn't an NFL QB, I suspect Tebow might not be either.

[Eric]

Two things:

Steve Young has said before that when he was drafted by the Bucs, they honestly just told him to go out there and try to make something happen. No offensive game plan. None.

I always brushed off the too-many-offensive-systems argument with QBs, like where they get 4 OC's in 4 seasons, but I think there's something to that. If you work for a complete clusterfudge of an organization, I think it would be pretty hard for your talent to shine through, no matter how great you were. Pretty soon you start getting discouraged, your effort level goes down, end of story.

There's an awful lot of fortune that goes into the fate of an NFL player.


If you look at any biggest-draft-bust list, you will find it littered with references to drug problems. This is not a small issue, nor is the off-the-field trouble or sense of entitlement that many people have. I could list off tons of names that have had issues with this.


My point is that Tebow stands a chance. He does not have a traditional QB skill set right now, but there's a chance he could be productive. Heck, Rajon Rondo is practically the best player on the Celtics right now, and he was about a week away from NBA oblivion at one point.

[marnold]

So yeah, about Ernie Sims: what's the deal? Is he going to be worthwhile, just having been stuck in the wrong position, does he have injury problems, or is he just a clunker who was dead weight? I was under the impression that he was very well thought of at one point, so I was curious why the Lions traded him.
Change in coaching, basically. Sims is a smallish LB, well-suited for a Cover-2 style defense. In Detroit's more standard 4-3, there's an emphasis on size and stuffing the run. He can hit, that's for sure. I personally thought he was a head case coming out of college and that the Lions reached for him. The "head case" part really didn't show itself.

Coincidentally, that's also why drafts become busts. New coach, new philosophy, means new players. That's one reason I was glad the Lions kept all of their coaches. We didn't need a massive turnover. We need talent.

Also the Lions needed a good TE because Linehan likes running two TE sets. It probably also hedges their bets a bit if Pettigrew's knee injury proves to be slow healing.


That having been said, supposedly Brandon Graham is a good player, and hopefully he'll work out well for the Eagles. We'll see.
He was far and away Michigan's best player last year. That's not intended to be damning with faint praise. I wish the Lions could have gotten him too, but I figured there'd be no way he'd make it through the first round.

[R_of_G]

My point is that Tebow stands a chance. He does not have a traditional QB skill set right now, but there's a chance he could be productive. Heck, Rajon Rondo is practically the best player on the Celtics right now, and he was about a week away from NBA oblivion at one point.

Of course there's a chance, but my point is, I don't know that that chance is worth a #25 overall pick when there are players available at positions of need that stand a better chance of contributing immediately because they played in systems that translate better to the NFL.

You are correct though, every pro sports league has guys that were discounted early in their careers or as prospects and shined when the time came. John Randle was inducted to the Hall of Fame this year and he was an undrafted free agent. I mentioned Tom Jackson earlier. He was "too small" to play LB in the NFL. Ditto Tedy Bruschi. Both went on to dominate at their position in their era. The "Tom Brady was a 6th round pick" story is the most repeated mantra on draft day. But that is my point. Tebow has a chance. I just don't know that you take a flier on a kid with a chance in round one.

Oh, a question for you Eric and PBP as I know you are both Eagles' guys. What do you think of taking Graham over Earl Thomas? I think Graham was a solid pick and he should do quite well with the Eagles and really get after some QBs, but other than Eric Berry, there isn't another player in the draft like Earl Thomas. For a team that lost Brian Dawkins, I thought he was the heir apparent, but like I said, you can't really knock Graham as he looks to have a ton of upside potential.

[Eric]

Oh, a question for you Eric and PBP as I know you are both Eagles' guys. What do you think of taking Graham over Earl Thomas? I think Graham was a solid pick and he should do quite well with the Eagles and really get after some QBs, but other than Eric Berry, there isn't another player in the draft like Earl Thomas. For a team that lost Brian Dawkins, I thought he was the heir apparent, but like I said, you can't really knock Graham as he looks to have a ton of upside potential.
Depends. I figured they were trading up to get Earl Thomas or Derrick Morgan, but that was just because those were the names I had heard.

When I looked into it a little more, I found Thomas to be an undersized cover safety who has a ton of range. Those coverage safeties are being used more these days and replacing the Sean Taylors of the world, but I'm not exactly crying about the selection of Graham.

I think Thomas will be good in the NFL, but Dawkins was a big-play guy (fumbles, INTs, etc.) and also a prolific hitter and tackler. Thomas doesn't strike me as that, and was in fact criticized for his lack of tackling. I thought the Dawkins-replacement talk was a bit overblown. Will Thomas be a good safety in the NFL? Yeah, I think so. Do the Eagles need help at safety? Yes. BUT...do the Eagles already have a princess in the secondary who hates to tackle? YES (read: Samuel, Asante).

What it comes down to is that I think Graham could be a very good player. He's definitely talented and skilled from what I hear, so it's mostly a matter of whether they can find a good place to use him properly. Whether Morgan or Thomas would have been a better pick, I'm not sure. They were more popular choices of people who do mock drafts, but I don't think this was exactly a Mike Mamula sort of reach.

[piebaldpython]

Oh, a question for you Eric and PBP as I know you are both Eagles' guys. What do you think of taking Graham over Earl Thomas? I think Graham was a solid pick and he should do quite well with the Eagles and really get after some QBs, but other than Eric Berry, there isn't another player in the draft like Earl Thomas. For a team that lost Brian Dawkins, I thought he was the heir apparent, but like I said, you can't really knock Graham as he looks to have a ton of upside potential.

Well, R of G........I don't follow the draft, I don't care about mini-camps nor pre-season........so to be honest, I know SQUAT about Graham. That being said, I pray that some of these guys they get KNOW how to tackle. I am SO freakin' sick of seeing guys just using their shoulder to knock a guy down. Sometimes it works, but most they bounce off and gain more yards. Drives me nuts.

Also, the Phils are winning, it's been warmer than normal, and most of us are rootin' for our Phils and we'll worry about the IGGLES and their sundry soap operas (McNabb, Vick, Reid's misfit sons, etc) in September.

BTW, them getting rid of Dawkins was a big mistake. UGH!!

[R_of_G]

Onefinal draft note now that it's over...

I am very proud of my alma mater this weekend. The USF Bulls had five players drafted this year, which for a program that is only in the early stages of its second decade in existence is quite impressive.

Congratulations to Jason Pierre-Paul, Nate Allen, George Selvie, Jerome Murphy and Carlton Mitchell.

They join fellow Bulls Mike Jenkins, Anthony Henry, Kawika Mitchell, Stephen Nicholas and Tyrone McKenzie in the NFL and I am sure in the years to come there will be many more to follow.

Go Bulls:dude