Can you handle constructive criticism?

[Jimi75]

Folks, handling constructive criticism (cc) and accepting the fact that cc is very important to become a better musician seems to be few and far between in the world of online music platforms where you can present your music. Again I have been badly insulted for giving one guy 4 out of 5 possible stars for his song. The reason was 1) it was a solo to a backing track, so no real song and no melody that repeated and could be kept in mind, 2) he had some severe timing issues. The reaction was tough. He gave me the finger, put me on his ignorelist and told me that I am a stinker who only wants to hear perfect music! He said it's easy to get a metronom and sound perfect, but that wouldn't be the Blues then anymore. Okay, Blues doesn't have to be perfect, true, most Blues records I listen to aren't perfect and that's why I like them, but if someone claims to be ahhhh so perfect and asks for feedback he's gotta have the balls to swallow some cc. Hey, are 4 out of 5 stars really that bad and how far can you improve if you fade out everything that is not a 5 star feedback?

Sometimes I feel that those guys who only record at home have to get their butts off the sofa and sniff some fresh stage air and play with real poeple.

Most of you know that I am constructive in my feedback and non insulting. This was really kind of a bad surprise.

[sunvalleylaw]

I wouldn't worry about that reaction. That is about him, and not you.

As for can I? Yes. In guitar, it is easy, because I only began a few years ago. A different example that is sometimes harder for me is skiing. I have skied since I was 5, have been a professional instructor since my 20s. So I have more ego. But we regularly do trainings, and I have learned that there is always more to learn, and one can always improve. The changes in equipment even dictate that what worked well 5 years ago needs to be adjusted. And so I welcome the criticism. I will admit that sometimes, once in a while, I pout a little after receiving it though, until i am ready to hear it in my head.

But as for this situation, I welcome criticism from players such as yourself, and am honored guys like you, Robert, Spud, lots of people here, take the time to actually listen and give me some things to work on. So don't worry about this guy's sour grapes.

[Spudman]

I can take it if I ask for it. Then I'm expecting it. It also depends on the delivery when it's not being asked for. Sometimes I'm okay with it and sometimes not. It just depends on my mood and the delivery.

How about posting the track in question?

[sumitomo]

Well sometimes the truth hurts!Don't it.Sumi:D

[marnold]

I know a lot of people who can't. As a matter of fact, most people get highly offended if you would insinuate that they're not just about the greatest person in the world now that Ghandi is dead. I see that in my homebrew club's competition. If the judges don't agree that this is the best beer ever, they get ticked. I tell them that if they can't handle that, the competition is not for them.

I have no choice but to deal with criticism in my line of work. Some of it is constructive and helpful. Some is intended to be constructive but really isn't helpful. Some is just spoken in haste or mean-spirited or just plain evil. No matter what happens, I have to take it. I can't jump down someone's throat no matter how desperately they need it.

[Robert]

I sure can, anytime. My youtube comments have hardened me! :) I just take the bad comments with a smile - my feelings rarely get hurt these days.

Jimi, did this happen on a guitar forum somewhere?

I find it hard to give honest criticism, because I know many people easily get hurt by a brutally honest answer. But then again, if asked, I try to give a good and honest answer, expressed in a way they can take (or at least that's what I hope).

[Jimi75]

Jimi, did this happen on a guitar forum somewhere?


It happened on a forum where musicians can post their music. Not guitar related. Music in general.

I was kind and honest, seems that this guy had pretty thin skin :-)

[mainestratman]

I'm with Spud on this one. Delivery is a huge thing to me.

I'm also with Robert on this regarding giving it. I rarely offer unsolicited criticism.

However, people who know me know that I am my own worst critic. So regardless how bad someone's offering may be, I'm a lot harder on something I do.

[aeolian]

Everyone has an ego, and it takes ego to put music up for people to listen to. I know my music is not perfect since I don't have enough skills or patience to get things perfect. I've had people point out bum notes and such, and since I know they are correct I just have to agree.

On one tune I had some people tell me that a solo during a break did not work, and I thought they were right because I have doubts about it myself. In that case I completely redid the solo and got a much more positive response, so the criticism is definitely constructive.

On the other hand I had one person criticize a tune of mine saying that I was essentially playing out of key all through the song. The basis of the tune is a progression with one chord that does not belong in the home key, and that is the reason why I thought it sounded interesting. In this case I concluded that my ears are different than his, and if I'm happy with what came out of my fingers that's good enough for me. By the way, this is a tune that some of you have liked.

[M29]

It kind of makes me a little itchy but the truth is the truth... when it is the truth.

[Robert]

That's the thing - there is no truth about something like this - only opinions, which of course are completely subjective. If I tell you that you suck, or that you are the best player on the planet, it doesn't mean it's true - it's just my opinion! :)

[R_of_G]

I can take it if I ask for it. Then I'm expecting it. It also depends on the delivery when it's not being asked for. Sometimes I'm okay with it and sometimes not. It just depends on my mood and the delivery.

Exactly. With respect to playing music, if I put my music out there for people to hear then yes, I expect to receive feedback on it, positive or negative. So long as the negative is phrased respectfully I have no problem with it whatsoever. It's when it comes in the form of unsolicited advice in a way that only points out the negative for negativity's sake that I react, um... less appreciatively.

Of course, as Robert said, it's all subjective so there's really no need to ever take criticism about music too deeply to heart. What one person thinks sucks is another person's favorite piece of music. It's all in the mind.

[oldguy]

That's the thing - there is no truth about something like this - only opinions, which of course are completely subjective. If I tell you that you suck, or that you are the best player on the planet, it doesn't mean it's true - it's just my opinion! :)

Yep. Kinda like someone telling you a big mac is so much better than a smoked turkey sandwich.

[Eric]

What one person thinks sucks is another person's favorite piece of music. It's all in the mind.
That reminds me of a t-shirt I saw once:

http://media.avclub.com/assets/images/products/productgroup/4/M-YourFaveBand_400x400_2_jpg_400x400_upscale_q85.jpg

[R_of_G]

That reminds me of a t-shirt I saw once:

http://media.avclub.com/assets/images/products/productgroup/4/M-YourFaveBand_400x400_2_jpg_400x400_upscale_q85.jpg

:)

I used a different version of the same graphic as an avatar at another forum where I was known for my music snobbery.

[hubberjub]

I can take criticism all day long. I'd rather have that than compliments. Obviously, it depends on who the criticism is coming from. In Jimi's case, the guy posted the song on a public forum. What did he expect? If he wanted to be showered with praise he should have played it for his mother.

[Eric]

I wouldn't worry about that reaction. That is about him, and not you.
+1 on that.

In general, I agree with the notion that it's harder to receive feedback on something you don't think needs improvement. It's hard enough to take unsolicited feedback gracefully, no matter how it's delivered. I try to remember that it's pretty easy to have weird/incorrect opinions when you're the only voice, which helps keep me open to input from others.

[tjcurtin1]

It starts early - no one ever gets a 'C' in a college course nowadays, it would be outrageously unheard of, and almost certainly challenged by the student - or their parents! It is dangerous for an employer to say anything not positive in response to a reference request from another potential employer for fear of a lawsuit, so such references are now made essentially worthless. It's all part of the culture of entitlement.

[otaypanky]

It starts early - no one ever gets a 'C' in a college course nowadays, it would be outrageously unheard of, and almost certainly challenged by the student - or their parents! It is dangerous for an employer to say anything not positive in response to a reference request from another potential employer for fear of a lawsuit, so such references are now made essentially worthless. It's all part of the culture of entitlement.

That reminds me of a story I saw on TV, I think it was a segment on
60 Minutes. It was all about the extent that employers have to go to in order to placate the new generation of spoiled brat employees ~

I'm always receptive to get constructive criticism. If people see me start to cry I just say I have severe allergies ~
The source of it has some relevance though.

[tjcurtin1]

I meant to add - that first 'c' in 'cc' makes the difference. If it is really constructive, then you should welcome it - it's one of the best ways to overcome problems and get better - at anything.

[pes_laul]

I actually like cc. Though unless its one of those douchebags who say that they could do it way better.and dont even say what I could do better. and usually they dont even play great.

[Zip]

Peter Green said it best: "Don't ask me what I think of you,
I might not give the answer that you want me to."

He asked for your opinion - via a 5-star rating system - and you gave it. That's more than 99.3% of the online universe did for him. If he cannot handle your opinion, it's a shame. But it's his problem, and he shouldn't have tried to make it yours. That's just shameful and a sh1tty thing to do.

[deeaa]

Folks, handling constructive criticism (cc) and accepting the fact that cc is very important to become a better musician seems to be few and far between in the world of online music platforms where you can present your music. Again I have been badly insulted for giving one guy 4 out of 5 possible stars for his song. The reason was 1) it was a solo to a backing track, so no real song and no melody that repeated and could be kept in mind, 2) he had some severe timing issues. The reaction was tough. He gave me the finger, put me on his ignorelist and told me that I am a stinker who only wants to hear perfect music! He said it's easy to get a metronom and sound perfect, but that wouldn't be the Blues then anymore. Okay, Blues doesn't have to be perfect, true, most Blues records I listen to aren't perfect and that's why I like them, but if someone claims to be ahhhh so perfect and asks for feedback he's gotta have the balls to swallow some cc. Hey, are 4 out of 5 stars really that bad and how far can you improve if you fade out everything that is not a 5 star feedback?

Sometimes I feel that those guys who only record at home have to get their butts off the sofa and sniff some fresh stage air and play with real poeple.

Most of you know that I am constructive in my feedback and non insulting. This was really kind of a bad surprise.

LOL did it happen to be a guy called Romeo Rose ;-)

[Tonz]

CC is a great thing, I have heard it all from you r God to u suck.
The important thing is you are out playing in front of people, and having fun.

[deeaa]

I never understood how can someone say like, that some,, say baseball player really sucks. Or athlete . makes me want to say that well, if pro guy like that suckz bad, u really must think you suck ten times more yourself. Or youd be there instead lf him, huh?

Same with people saying they hate something so easily. Id hate a baby killeror something, not someone i merely dont like.
H

[Eric]

I never understood how can someone say like, that some,, say baseball player really sucks. Or athlete . makes me want to say that well, if pro guy like that suckz bad, u really must think you suck ten times more yourself. Or youd be there instead lf him, huh?
I get what you're saying, but you can critique objectively, can't you? Mind you, 'sucks' is probably too strong a word, but surely you have some musicians you like more than others, don't you? Does saying you don't like a given musician immediately insinuate that you think you're better than him/her? I think there's some room in there for opinion.


Same with people saying they hate something so easily. Id hate a baby killeror something, not someone i merely dont like.
I agree with you on this one. I still say it sometimes, but I think you're right on.