In-ear monitoring?

[deeaa]

Any of you guys use in-ear monitors either live or training?

I saw a buddy of mine use one onstage a while back and pondered I should try one, and so I plugged in my small Behringer mixer at training between my mic&monitors and ran in-ear buds from its headphone out.

Being a true Behringer the hp amp blew out in an hour of hard use, but while it lasted it sure was great to hear SO well what I sang, even though the cord was constantly in the way. I can't believe I haven't seriously looked into these earlier. :thwap I mean, single-channel units being as low as a hundred euros, it'd have been MUCH cheaper to just buy each band member a suitable unit and no monitors at all otherwise - and infinitely better with everyone having their own volumes for monitoring their own stuff. Add a big battery charger and AA accu batteries for use in the receivers and that's it. Why isn't it used everywhere?:what

So now I'm looking at LD 1100 in-ear monitor system package, ~300, having two separate IO's so I can get both my amp and vox mixed to my ears with it. I always mic my cab anyway, so it's no problem.

So...anybody using such system? Any tips, recommendations, insight?

[t_ross33]

Checked out Shure PSM200 (http://www.shure.com/americas/products/personal-monitor-systems/psm200/index.htm) series for band rehearsals a while back. 2 inputs, one for a "band" or "front of house" mix and one for vox or instrument... pretty sweet once you dial it in. If we decide to buy, I like the Audio-Technica M2 (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wls_monitor_systems/5c2859d6112bfbaf/index.html) because it allows you to blend the channels right from the belt pack receiver so you can make adjustments on the fly.

We've done quite a bit of research on these and the general consensus seems to be DON'T CHEAP OUT... you'll end up upgrading soon anyway. With that in mind, we're looking at about $600 or $700 CDN per set... so it's on the "Wish List" right now. Also, a mixer with multiple monitor outs is handy so everyone can have their own tailor-made mix.

Sound is surprisingly good, even with cheap earbuds. Our drummer uses a Roland TD-20 electronic kit and I was surprised with how full and natural both the drums and bass sounded in the earbuds.

If you sing, a good vocal mix is essential. If your vox aren't mixed high enough, the noise cancelling buds make it sound like you are singing with your head underwater... a really weird sensation.

The ability to tweak individual mixes according to each player's needs and wants is a really big selling point for us... not fighting for "space"... no need to keep turning up my amp to hear myself over bass or drums... a FOH mixer's dream :happy Nice to have a nearly silent stage as well.

Highly recommended, if you can afford it :cool:

[deeaa]

My friend has a Shure and is very happy with it. I've also heard cheap ones are not worth it...I wonder how the LD fares. It's nowhere near the cheapest unit and seems pretty solid on paper at least...but I'd definitely want to go Shure if I only could.

BUT then the cost becomes an issue...methinks 300 is pretty much the limit for me any time soon.

It's always a battle...I just bought a small boat for 300 yesterday, a rowing boat/dinghy for our cottage (can't/don't always want to use the motorboat) because it was cheap - ~1000 for new one and this in good condition too...so I won't be buying me a monitor this month :-) but if I aim for something like 600 or more...I will never be able to get one unless I sell some amps or something :-(

Well, I figure I'll probably buy one and use the 30 day return policy if it seems in any way sub-par...

[deeaa]

This is what I'm looking at right now:

http://www.dbtechnologies.com/index.php?id=22&no_cache=1&L=0&tx_amdbt_pi1[category]=46&tx_amdbt_pi1[product]=188&cHash=ccdffe7766

Dual channel (guitar&mic) and seems like it should do the job.

Price is pretty much half of equivalent Shure...

[Eric]

I've been very interested in this sort of technology, but can you guys help me understand how it works? So let's say you have the following:

2 x guitar
bass
keyboard
drums
3 x singers

Each person would have one of those units, which has two inputs total, right? So if you sing and play guitar and still want to hear the rest of the band, are you just out of luck? Are your inputs just split before they go to the mixer/front of house so that they can also go into these personal monitor inputs? I guess if everyone is DI'ed it doesn't really change much, other than the fact that you won't have any ambient noise from the mic'ed amps.

Hmm...maybe I'm not sure what my questions are. More or less I just want more info on how these work.

[t_ross33]

Here's how we would use them:


All instruments (including the Roland TD-20 electronic drum kit) and vocals are ran to the mixer (ideally with 2 or 3 monitor/aux sends).

Each band member (in our case 3) has and in-ear transmitter and receiver (2ch)

Ch1 is assigned the appropriate monitor/aux send. Everyone can tweak their own "monitor" or "band" mix.

Ch2 is assigned either individual vocals or instrument (your preference) and that signal form the mic/DI/amp etc runs through the in-ear transmitter then passes to the mixer.

Each band member can dial in their custom "band" mix from the mixer and augment it with a little more or less of their own vox/instrument as needed.

Hope that helps :cool:

[deeaa]

Yes like he said. Only I would not have the whole mnitor mix, just my stuff in my ear. the rezt i hear enough well over the air. And i dont care to hear 2nd guitar and bass nyway all i need to hear is drums and myself and im fine.

[Eric]

Ch1 is assigned the appropriate monitor/aux send. Everyone can tweak their own "monitor" or "band" mix.

Ch2 is assigned either individual vocals or instrument (your preference) and that signal form the mic/DI/amp etc runs through the in-ear transmitter then passes to the mixer.

Each band member can dial in their custom "band" mix from the mixer and augment it with a little more or less of their own vox/instrument as needed.
I see. So say I'm playing guitar and going amp -> line out to FOH, it would look like this?

http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/101974be830042aac9.jpg

Also, when you say each member can tweak the mix, you're just talking about the master level of the mixer send in their headphones, right? In other words, that "custom band mix" does not involve levels of individual instruments, right?

[deeaa]

Exactly like that. So, you can tweak YOUR level in relation to the rest of the mix. For tweaking other individual instruments, need to ask the soundman...but I have never asked for anything but my own instrument in the monitor.

[Eric]

Exactly like that. So, you can tweak YOUR level in relation to the rest of the mix. For tweaking other individual instruments, need to ask the soundman...but I have never asked for anything but my own instrument in the monitor.
Cool -- thanks for the enlightenment (both of you). I'll keep this in mind for the future.

[t_ross33]

Yes like he said. Only I would not have the whole mnitor mix, just my stuff in my ear. the rezt i hear enough well over the air. And i dont care to hear 2nd guitar and bass nyway all i need to hear is drums and myself and im fine.

That's why individual monitor sends would be preferred (if available). We do our own sound, so it's no big deal. In the event that we would be using an existing or some other FOH PA, we would look at getting some kind of splitter cables/box and use our mixer for the monitor sends and send everything else through to FOH. I know of a few bands that do that quite successfully.

[Eric]

Just to add to this, at my church I finally talked some people into doing a simplified version of this, with a wired unit to work as a headphone amp. It's basically the same as the units you guys are talking about, with a pass-through connection for your feed (instrument in this case) and a line-level monitor feed from one of the aux outs on the mixer.

I'm hoping it's not too much of a PITA to use a wired unit. We'll see. So far we only have $ invested in some buds. Have you guys ever heard of doing this without a receiver/transmitter wireless unit?

[deeaa]

Well sounds exactly what I did with the behri thingy. It was a PITA...mainly because it was either damned hard to put on, or alternatively it was always in the way when putting down the guitar, switching positions, or trying to move in which case you likely stepped on the cable...but it sure was good to sing with it.

[Eric]

Hmm. Well, maybe this can be a springboard to a different version. Did you actually use a mixer for your test run? That seems like it would be extra clunky. I think we'll be using something like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SMonitor/

This is the model our drummer has been using for a long time. Unfortunately, it's no longer made, but there are comparable units. The sound dude is bringing in some unit that he says will do the same thing, so we'll see. Hopefully the cord isn't too annoying.

[t_ross33]

MyMix (http://www.mymixaudio.com/)

[Eric]

MyMix (http://www.mymixaudio.com/)
That looks very similar to the Aviom (http://www.aviom.com/) system, which is sort of the de facto custom-monitoring thing these days. I think Aviom is pretty much par for the course in gigundo churches.

[vroomery]

Avioms are cool. I've used them quite often, but there is certainly room for improvement. This (http://www.samepagemusic.com/Videos/) is a pretty cool option. It will probably be expensive, but it has way more features for the money. Click on the "Same Page Mix" to see the mixing side of things.

[Eric]

Avioms are cool. I've used them quite often, but there is certainly room for improvement. This (http://www.samepagemusic.com/Videos/) is a pretty cool option. It will probably be expensive, but it has way more features for the money. Click on the "Same Page Mix" to see the mixing side of things.
Is that the thing where everybody has a computer monitor instead of a music stand? I think I've heard of things like that before, but it seems really excessive, particularly for something like a church.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if everything went toward this sort of thing in the future. I just feel like $-per-person is probably ridiculously high at this time for a not-for-profit organization (e.g. a church) to be buying it in its current state.

[vroomery]

Yeah its definitely excessive, but it's also really cool technology. The churches I've seen using them were part of a trial program from same page and paid nothing for them.

[deeaa]

Hmm. Well, maybe this can be a springboard to a different version. Did you actually use a mixer for your test run? That seems like it would be extra clunky. I think we'll be using something like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SMonitor/

This is the model our drummer has been using for a long time. Unfortunately, it's no longer made, but there are comparable units. The sound dude is bringing in some unit that he says will do the same thing, so we'll see. Hopefully the cord isn't too annoying.

Yes a mixer...but basically the same size one. I guess where you have it is the key. For drummers it's easy as they move little, I guess keyb players too...singer/guitarist/leader moves more. But anuway, if you had it on your pedal board, it would mean only one more lead to use and get tangled with ;-)