Total N00B question: Are tube amphs that hard to maintain?

[Katastrophe]

I've never owned an all tube amph. Couple of my preamps in my old rack setup had a 12AX7 or two, but never a traditional tube amph.

Are they hard to maintain?

How much do replacement tubes run?

Do they crap out often?

How often do you have to replace the tubes?

I've played through a number of tube amphs (the Egnater Rebel was way cool, among others), and love the tones you can get from one, but never felt the need to purchase one, as my Crate suited my needs at the time. However, playing tastes and styles change over time, and I think I'd like to look at getting some tube warmth in my tone, when the time comes to get another amph.

There are some really inexpensive tube amphs out there right now.

[tunghaichuan]

To answer your question, it depends.



I've never owned an all tube amph. Couple of my preamps in my old rack setup had a 12AX7 or two, but never a traditional tube amph.

Are they hard to maintain?



Some are, some aren't again, I hate to be vague, but it depends. Some amps are known to eat tubes quickly. Quality of build is another issue. Some amps are built very well using quality components, others are built very cheaply using crap components. There's a whole continuum.



How much do replacement tubes run?


It depends on how many tubes are in the amp, and what types are in the amp. A fender Champ uses three tubes: 5Y3, a 6V6 and a 12AX7. Depending on whether you buy NOS, current production or a combination, it could cost as little as $30 ($10 each for new production) to a hundred dollars or more for rare NOS tubes. As a general rule, NOS tubes last much longer and sound better than current production tubes. Obviously, the more tubes an amp has, the more it will cost to replace them.



Do they crap out often?


As a rule, current production tubes (made in Slovakia, Russia and China) don't tend to last as long as NOS tubes made in the West (USA, Great Brittain, Germany, Netherlands). I've seen lots of old Fender amps with their original tubes.



How often do you have to replace the tubes?


Usually when you notice the amp losing power, changing tonallity, etc. Keep in mind that it is a good idea to replace the tubes before they fail, sometimes there can be lots of collateral damage if a tube fails (takes out one of the transformers, etc.)



I've played through a number of tube amphs (the Egnater Rebel was way cool, among others), and love the tones you can get from one, but never felt the need to purchase one, as my Crate suited my needs at the time. However, playing tastes and styles change over time, and I think I'd like to look at getting some tube warmth in my tone, when the time comes to get another amph.


The Rebel is kind of unique in that it uses two different sets of power tubes a pair of 6V6s and a pair of EL84s. Most amps in this wattage range only use one set of power tubes.



There are some really inexpensive tube amphs out there right now.


Keep in mind that generally, you get what you pay for. Lots of times, inexpensive tube amps are built very cheaply with marginal components. But there are exceptions to this rule.

Since you mentioned Egnater, I'd check out the new Tweaker. It seems to have a lot of features and offers tremendous bang for the buck.

There are lots of vintage amps out there, and while they sound good, they can be expensive.

As with most things, any tube amps will have its strengths and weaknesses.

[red]

There are lots of vintage amps out there, and while they sound good, they can be expensive.
True, and not only that, but most of them will require immediate service after purchase, including the dreaded all-caps-swap (if the previous owners haven't done that already).

If you need vintage tone without the trouble, go with a boutique clone (Victoria, Swart, etc.), or a good reissue from the original brand.

Obviously, if you're Keith Richards you need to have the #002 Fender Twin.

There are some decent tube amps made now that don't cost a lot and provide good tone, the Peavey Classics, VOX ACs, Fender Blues Jr and Pro Jr being some of them.

[markb]

When I sold my '68 Vibrolux it still had what could well have been the original rectifier in it. I had it 17 years in which time it had the smoothing caps replaced, new power valves (and bias adjustment to suit), and a couple of new preamp valves. So not a high cost of ownership on that one.

Like Tung says, a lot of modern valve amps are not built the way they used to be. Valve bases on a pcb are a common point of heat death for these designs. Dangling power valves with no extra support are an issue here too.

Sometimes the factory fitted valves could be better which leads a lot of people to swap them before they strictly need to. I did this to my Blues Junior but then didn't touch it again for three years. Some manufacturers play safe on the bias voltage which doesn't always get the best out of the amp leading to more tweakage by the end user. Many people just plug and play quite happily.

All amps, valve or ss need replacement smoothing caps eventually. Valve amps just use higher voltages so the caps are bigger and more expensive.

[deeaa]

6L6 tubes last a LONG time. 12AX7 preamp tubes can also last a LONG time. Both may last a decade.

EL34's are a bit less durable, but a few hours a week of playing still gets you several years service life easily. EL84's are probably the most short-lived, and in some amps some EL84's need yearly changing.

I have owned a dozen or so tube amps and only a few times I have changed poweramp tubes. Of preamp tubes, it's usually just the first one that needs changing, especially if driven hard with pedals etc. At some point I had to change the 1st position 12ax7 yearly on my Fender amps.

But, all in all, toob amps can be very simple, and usually are. Very few parts to service. BAsically, besides the tubes, the caps may need replacing, or potentiometers maybe.

SS amps have more parts and things that can go wrong...however, with newer tube monsters like them MArshall JMV series, it may be you get the worst of both worlds in reliability - need to replace tubes but still lots of relays and switches and electronic parts and a LOT of PCB's in several layers - must be *****es to repair when the time comes.

But your basic toob amp, especially point-to-point wired, they will last from father to son and more. Just change tubes sometime.

My Ceriatone is now, what, erm, soon 3 years? I have changed the power tubes once and the first preamp tube twice, but that was more due to sound searching than need really. BUt I expect it'll need no service other than new tubes now and then in the next 20 years or so. And tube changing takes minutes, unless you need to bias. No need for that with EL84's.

[progrmr]

Jeez...I was thinking about a tube amp, but after reading all that crap I know why SS is so popular lol!

[guitardan777]

It's hard to beat a good tube amp for harmonic content, warmth, dynamics, and feel. IMHO the cost of tubes is worth every penny.
Over all, it's proably way less than the cost of guitar strings over time.

There are some cool SS amps out there and they have their place....
Do some A/B tests for yourself in a music store....

Bottom line = Tubes Rule....and I'm sticking to that : )

[MAXIFUNK]

Bottom line = Tubes Rule....and I'm sticking to that : )

LET THE CHURCH SAY AHMEN!!!!

[Robert]

I have lots of tube amps, and I never have any problems with any of them. Tubes can go bad, but for the last 10 years or more, I've never had one issue with my amps. I just change tubes after a few years or playing an amp.

I personally think it's much better to use a head and cab instead of combo if you are gigging. That way, you can put the head away from the cabinet a bit, and not get any vibrations from the cabinet to the amp itself. Many hours of gigging at loud volumes can cause issues from all that vibration, especially for a combo. That's why it's also better to put the head on a chair beside the combo, instead of on top of the cabinet - otherwise you have the same potential rattle issues as with a combo.

[thearabianmage]

That's why it's also better to put the head on a chair beside the combo, instead of on top of the cabinet - otherwise you have the same potential rattle issues as with a combo.

I wonder why nobody has invented some sort of spring-based shock-system for this or something similar!? You'd have thought it was a rather imperative design flaw. . . in any case Phwaor! Imagine that! A tube-amph with hydraulics! :D

[deeaa]

I wonder about not keeping the head atop the cab, would it make much of a difference...interesting to ponder about it some....I'm inclined to think that first off, there isn't that much vibration (cab stands on casters/rubber feet and the head too, there's layers of vinyl and wood between) and if there is some vibration, it may even contribute to the sound beneficially. Spring reverb might in some cases vibrate a bit much I guess, but even that may sound just good. BUt there must be truth to the longeivity of tubes.

I know some small but powerful combos (like the 1x12" JCM900 comes to mind) are said to be prone to too much vibration causing issues, which is no wonder when you have a 100W speaker pumping air inches away from the amp classware...I'd be leery of their road performance night after night.

Neil Young reportedly thrives on the whole amp vibration thing for his sound, though, and he's very anal about that too...for instance he always insists he can place his reverb unit away from the stage, usually under the stage, as the spring reverb don't like stage vibrations, but the amp must vibrate freely (most of the sound comes from a single 12 champ amp)...I once read a very extensive report by his guitar/amp tech.

I suppose that tubes would last a little longer and the sound could probably be slightly more pure of rattles or whatnot if you did put the amp beside the cab, but then again, on many a stage the stage itself isn't too stable and might actually flex and bounce causing even more movement than when resting on top of a heavy cab.

A lot of the people who tour a lot have their heads in heavy roadie cases anyway, where they are resting on top of foam mattresses, or even enclosed in such...so yeah, I guess if I played 200 gigs a year, I'd do something like that. But I'd also say the average joe won't notice any differences, maybe a tube goes bad a day sooner when the head is on cab, and at least to me the looks of the head beside the cab would be so wrong I wouldn't do it. And it'd take so much more stage space as well :-)