Playing seems to be causing me stress

[progrmr]

This is kinda strange because I always thought that playing an instrument should be anti-stress.

I think my "problem" is that I'm a perfectionist (started with the military I think, and the mentality in reinforced daily at my job), and since I don't have a lot of natural musical ability I get easily frustrated when I sit down with something new and it sounds like crap or "not good enough" even after an hour of practicing the same thing lol!

I also think that lessons is adding to that stress. I feel like I have to get all the stuff that my teacher transcribed for me 100% down by my next lesson, but I find that I'd have to practice endlessly to get tone and feel of something new.

Take this week for example - I'm learning a blues song by my instructors band - it's not all that complicated, although some of the solos have a lot of technique involved that increases the level of difficulty beyond just getting the timing/tone down. I got up this morning and practiced before coming into work and I found that I was stressed by the time I got done practicing. When I make a mistake I punish myself by thinking things like "comon Dave - how come you can't get that right? How many times do you have to do it? You should be able to play it already". Note that this doesn't happen consciously, my mind just starts thinking it.

I know this - I'm definitely drawn to playing guitar. I want to enjoy it totally - but I'm 40 and while the perfectionist thing something that I'd like to break myself of I think it'll be a challenge. I also think it's not very healthy - sure perfection is a great goal but to imagine that it can be achieved, well that just doesn't happen even for the musically gifted.

I don't know - anybody ever feel like this? I can't be alone! :poke Any ideas on how to teach myself to play stress free???

[Tig]

Close your eyes, and let the music flow from deep within.

Just noodle around with some basic 1 or 2 finger notes and play whatever pattern comes naturally from there. No goals. No expectations. No rush.

Be sure to play for just yourself, ignoring any audience, including the perfectionist part of you.

The mind gets in the way of creativity sometimes. When the mind is quiet, all is perfect.

From here, you can bring back the simple enjoyment of making music.

[Katastrophe]

...And stress could be causing a good deal of frustration by all the tension in your forearms, wrists, hands and fingers.

Playing guitar is a never ending process, and yes, it is frustrating at times. I've learned to just set the guitar down and do something else when that happens.

Break parts you're learning down to smaller parts, and work on one part at a time.

It might impress your teacher if you were to bring in a part that you were struggling on. Maybe he'll have some tips to help. After all, isn't that what you're paying him for?

Relax, it's just wire n' wood. If it's not fun, then it's work!

[Commodore 64]

I feel this way sometimes too. I think it might be a function of starting later in life....feelin' like you have a lot of catching up to do. But part of practicing is learning how to learn...

A lot of guitar is muscle memory...so even if, in your mind, you know where to put your fingers, you still can't do it from a physical standpoint. And that only comes with time. That's where relaxing and noodling around comes in.

Make sure that all of your practice isn't simply trying to nail the instructors stuff note for note. In fact, I think that's a real lousy way to go about it. Try to get the feel of the instructors lead work, and then play it yourself. Some of it will be note for note, of course, but there will also be your own flavour, which will be tempered with your own phrasing and limitations (which is perfectly fine).

[progrmr]

thanks for all the replies - along the lines of what Commodor was saying I have seriously considered quitting lessons and just playing by ear so that it's really at my own pace and has my own flavor on the tone. I have a Tascam Bass trainer that I used to use for bass but works fine for guitar stuff too. Once I get in the neighborhood I find that I can usually get stuff by ear.

And when I'm just noodling old metallica solos I learned when I was 15 (which I still don't have down 100% lol) I am enjoying it. Could be the music too, I enjoy blues but think I might enjoy listening to it more than I like to play it.

Maybe some good old fashioned hard rock would be way to go for awhile. Either way I think I need to back off from what I've been doing and make some changes.

I really think I'd be a better player if I can get rid of this stress and just play.

[Eric]

I really think I'd be a better player if I can get rid of this stress and just play.
This statement, to me, is a big part of the issue. You don't need to be "a better player" -- just take it at your own pace. It's like the difference between goals and expectations, which is something I get pounded into my head at every lesson.

Do you have goals? Sure! But to expect something more of yourself or get depressed by the skillz shown in youtube videos is counterproductive. I've improved a LOT in the time I've been playing guitar (15 years, so you'd hope so, right?), but not all of it has been at the fastest pace.

That's OK.

I've still improved. I still enjoy it. I really enjoy picking up the guitar, because I might discover that I can do something now that I couldn't do previously. I do get stressed sometimes by feeling like I'm 'behind', but I really try to focus on the fun of it instead of making it a chore.

Just keep showing up and don't worry about how good you are. The most likely outcome of worrying is discouragement and giving up.

FWIW, I don't think I can play any Metallica solos.

[thearabianmage]

This is a post I wrote a couple years ago. . . It gets a bit weird, but I hope it can help. . . :AOK

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=8416

[sunvalleylaw]

I go through periods where I get frustrated. I was once good on a piano (high school, dropped it and forgot it since), and I apply old standards to myself as I have set out to learn guitar. A guitar player grand dad who was attending a recital where my son, and some other kids including his grandkids were playing piano, noted that piano players go back and re-do mistakes while guitar players play on. I have to remember that. I get too tight about being perfect and not making mistakes.

That is one reason I want to pick up some grungey rock songs to wank on, as I won't be so concerned if it is not perfect. Play on!

[progrmr]

This is a post I wrote a couple years ago. . . It gets a bit weird, but I hope it can help. . . :AOK

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=8416

Great thread! I just ordered Effortless Mastery - sounds a lot like what I'm dealing with.

[thearabianmage]

I want to pick up some grungey rock songs to wank on

I don't know in what context you are using the word 'wank', but over here across the pond, that is one dodgy sentence :thwap :D


Great thread!

Thanks - I hope it helped! And good luck! :AOK

[ZMAN]

What you have to realize is that you instructor probably has been playing for years. The other thing is that you are still working daily at a job. I don't know how much time you spend on practice but it take up a lot of time, and can be stressfull if you HAVE to do it. I think you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself. I always found that IF I can hear the song being played, then practice the notes then listen to the song, it kind of gives you a feel for tempo and tone. What I found is that usually the only part of the song you need to know note for note is the intro. The rest can have your flair. I found also that when I retired early I have more than eough time to practice and looked forward to it. Juggling life, and trying to play caused me to put it away for 25 years. Now I love it.

[kiteman]

Been there. I'm always reminding myself to relax. I just quit following the routines like if I'm going to be a rock star at the end. I'm not interested in getting stardom but have fun with the guitar. I'm slow on learning (maybe I am a slow learner) but having fun nevertheless.

When I'm relaxed my playing is better and the string feels springy with a touch and not bearing down on the frets. That's the feel you want as it feels effortless. On your picking hand same thing, a light touch with the pick. From there you have dynamic pickings.

[sumitomo]

Play to have fun!Live is to short to work so hard and sound like everyone else.Sumi:D

[deeaa]

I don't know in what context you are using the word 'wank', but over here across the pond, that is one dodgy sentence :thwap :D



Thanks - I hope it helped! And good luck! :AOK

ROTFLMAO

[deeaa]

You know, making music and being a 'part of it' always caused me stress.

Playing hard/practicing certainly would cause stress 4 me too. I play usually once or twice a week, at tops three times, and I don't really ever 'practice' anything else but try to memorize my own songs. Any more, I'd be stressed.

Being in bands and making music has always been a stress factor for me, much as I love it, there have been several points in my life where I have pretty much sold ALL my gear and just resigned from everything. Well three times I've done that, simply because it got too stressful.

Sometimes even now I get these passing feelings it's getting too stressful, but this time I've managed - and decided to stick with it. I've warned people from my bands that I might just have to quit if there's too much demand or work poured over me, I'm in it for fun and when it becomes too much I will just drop it some day, because I can't handle that much stress.

Being a teacher I face a lot of stress at work already, student issues, dealing with parents, work that has no real breathing moments all day etc. and I just can't handle too much requirements from me in music. I notice even if I have the time, I often decide not to go and do some band related thing on the PC or studio, just because I feel like it's stressful to start it. I'll give it a few days and then go and do it when I've built enough enthusiasm for doing it.

I'm a sucker for collecting way too much stressing things; I'm also a secretary for a local shooting club and that causes me a LOT of stress because I'd have to keep posting result sheets to our webpage and take care of membership issues and whatnot...I'd love to get out of the job but I'm also the webmaster and whatnot...it's the same thing as in bands. Even if I join a band as a bassist only give it a year and suddenly I've become singer/songwriter/guitarist/mixer/manager/engineer, you name it. Maybe I'm a born leader in a way but I hate it. It comes naturally for me to assume responsibilities and especially in bands, since it's all so familiar to me and I can do that stuff with my left hand - I really hate to blow my own horn here but I just mean nothing much is easier for me than to write a bunch of new songs and record them when I get inspired, I could probably make a full album from scratch in a matter of days...so usually in bands pretty soon that's more or less what happens, I end up doing way too much and the others stop making songs and just follow my ideas. And boy that can become stressful.

To my fright it's also happening at work, our school is getting new computers and language lab etc. and I don't even know how the hell it happened but it seems I've become the one teacher the principal is counting on with them, I'm given plans and furniture brochures and spec sheets and asked if I approve. Why me? What did I do to be the one from all the other teachers to suddenly be drawn into deciding what kind of hardware and furniture we want? I didn't ask for it! Why am I suddenly talking these things directly with the principal in the first place, when I have a department head person over me anyway I usually go through to even talk to the principal? But it's the same as with bands, whatever I do, I end up in some situation a bit like that, in too deep and getting stressed. And why the hell do I have to be in four bands at once anyway??? Ah I feel the stress creeping up on me, today we have one band practice and I have to start building a temp studio to record us...I've promised to create/record three demos with three bands this summer and working on an album for fourth...sigh...

[MichaelE]

A lot of guitar is muscle memory...so even if, in your mind, you know where to put your fingers, you still can't do it from a physical standpoint. And that only comes with time. That's where relaxing and noodling around comes in.


This is very true. Not only playing an instrument, but anything that requires body movement, or parts of your body.

I break down lead parts into pieces and I may practice each section for five or ten minutes very slowly several times and a bit faster (but not up to speed) a few minutes later.

I'll practice the song for 30 minutes at a time and move on to something I know, or just put it down and take a break for 20 or 30 minutes. I might start the process all over again, or start something entirely different.

When you come back the next day, and the day after, and the day after that, etc, and do this again, you will see that it is becoming easier and easier as your muscle memory for finger placement develops.

I do the same thing with learning piano pieces. Although I don't necessarily know what notes I'm playing on the guitar, I know where my fingers are supposed to be, just like was mentioned. On the piano however, I do know what notes I'm supposed to play, but until the memory develops my fingers don't always hit the correct keys.

[tjcurtin1]

Why me?

Dee - Man, you are a 'type A' - I feel sorry for you! I feel sorry for me, too, because my wife is the same...!:thwap
Sorry to say, but I don't know if there is any help for you....;)

It has been good to revisit the thoughts from this post and AMage's earlier post - I think that the idea of loosening and opening up/letting go is a really valuable one to be reminded of when I hit that point of frustration or feeling that I am not progressing the way I want to.

[deeaa]

Dee - Man, you are a 'type A' - I feel sorry for you! I feel sorry for me, too, because my wife is the same...!:thwap
Sorry to say, but I don't know if there is any help for you....;)


There's a lot of A type in me, yeah, but without the competitive side. Yes it pisses me off to no end if I have to leave something unfinished and I have to be constantly planning or doing something, but I still have no problem waiting for others, it's nigh impossible to anger me, and haven't got a competitive streak in me in the least, I wouldn't care less if I came last in almost any kind of competition unless it's applying for a job or something directly affecting me, and I don't want to become 'too' rich or successful more than I need to live quite OK, although I would be happy to pay off the mortgage for sure...but I wouldn't be a teacher if I was driven after success or be clearly A type :-)

There's a lot of personality tests out there, like www.humanmetrics.com has a nice free Jung personality type test...I get more like B type results, but quite mixed. Humanmetrics says a good slogan for me would be 'I'm sorry you have to die' and suggests I would make a good commander in war, having no trouble sending people into the fray, and that's probably correct, I'm very utilitarian & believe in common good over the needs of one, even if it were myself. Death of one is a tragedy but death of millions is mere statistic, LOL :-)

[deeaa]

This is getting way off topic here but I don't get these personality tests really...the questions are impossible to choose from in most cases. I tend to answer yes to both quite contradicting questions. Like for instance when asked if you're thinking or more feeling personality - can you answer these so that either one gets more yes questions?:

Thinking Characteristics

Instinctively search for facts and logic in a decision situation.
Naturally notices tasks and work to be accomplished.
Easily able to provide an objective and critical analysis.
Accept conflict as a natural, normal part of relationships with people.

(I would give a strong yeas to all of these)

Feeling Characteristics

Instinctively employ personal feelings and impact on people in decision situations
Naturally sensitive to people needs and reactions.
Naturally seek consensus and popular opinions.
Unsettled by conflict; have almost a toxic reaction to disharmony.

(I would also give a strong yes to these too! So which would I choose, thinking or feeling? There is no way to choose between these!)

[Tig]

This is getting way off topic here but I don't get these personality tests really...the questions are impossible to choose from in most cases. I tend to answer yes to both quite contradicting questions.
I took the Jung personality test you linked, and thought the same thing about the contradicting questions.
I think the purpose is to refine the degree of a certain personality trait that just one question may not indicate.

The test results put me into the "INTJ (http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes3.asp)" type. which lumps me in with:
Stephen Hawking, Andrew Grove, Marie Curie, Guy Kawasaki, Igor Sikorsky, Hillary Clinton
:whatever:

The values are Strength of the preferences %:
Introverted = 56 %
Intuitive = 12 %
Thinking = 1 % (only 1 % thinking? I should become a drummer! :rollover )
Judging = 33 %
It also put me into the category of a "Rational Mastermind (http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=5&c=mastermind)", whatever the hell that really means! :confused:

Well, now I can sleep better. :rolleyes:

[sunvalleylaw]

I once took that test and came up ENTP. At the time, I was quite young, and in love with logic, and scored all thinking and no feeling. That is not true now, and I remember I could skew the test questions because I wanted to come out on the Vulcan side. After kids, I know I would score higher on the feeling side than I did back then.

I took it again, and end up being an idealist now. ENFJ

Well, back to the real topic. I just gave myself a break from being concerned that I am not playing my jazz chords perfectly, and that I don't practice enough, and just learned a grunge tune (Crazy Mary, by Pearl Jam). Really fun, made me smile, and I am not stressed by my guitar progress at this point.

[deeaa]

The test results put me into the "INTJ (http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes3.asp)" type. which lumps me in with:
Stephen Hawking, Andrew Grove, Marie Curie, Guy Kawasaki, Igor Sikorsky, Hillary Clinton


That's interesting...because I got that too the second time. Depending on how I interpret the questions as they concern my life, I'm either ENTJ or INTJ, which seems contradicting to me. But I suppose it's true - some people consider me a very extroverted person, class clown etc. but some like my own family considers me a very reserved and introverted person who never even wants to leave home.

Even more interesting is whom you picked up from the list of persons similar...I noticed Caesar and Hannibal and Colin Powell...and from the entj results Norman Swarzkopf etc...fun stuff :-)

[Tig]

- some people consider me a very extroverted person, class clown etc. but some like my own family considers me a very reserved and introverted person who never even wants to leave home.


Talk about interesting? This describes me as well. I can be either, depending on the situation of surroundings. Maybe its something related about being a Gemini. (I don't take astrology very seriously) Maybe I'm just EFF'ed! :crazyguy

[deeaa]

I'm a Cancer; I don't think much of astrology etc.

Damn, that sounds like a good name for a punk song. 'I am Cancer'. Have to write some lyrics now.

[Moander]

Take a break from the lessons... expand on what you've already learned, play and improvise with the tools you have, and just play, period.

[progrmr]

thanks for all the advice - I purchased "Effortless Mastery" and am reading it - in fact this afternoon I read a great passage in the book that I think would be beneficial to a lot of people:

"The easiest way to do art is to dispense with success and failure and just get on with it"

I'm the type of person that measures whether or not I'm improving/successful or failing. If I'm doing a strum pattern and I have to hit it 16 times, if I mess up I have failed in my mind. I have to get rid of this mindset and just play.

This is the last month I'm doing lessons and I'm starting to just play and not worry about how good or bad I'm doing. Tough habit to break but I'm sure I'll enjoy playing much more once I can let it go.

[otaypanky]

I guess I'm lucky that I never really tried to learn songs or solo parts. I have been playing around with guitar for 47 years and couldn't tell you the difference between a minor pentatonic scale and a major scale. Geez, I don't know squat technically. But folks seem to like the way I play and I sure have fun doing it. I think that is because I have found out how to get what's inside of me out through my guitar and voice. I don't get confused doing it because it doesn't belong to someone else. It's what's thumping in my heart.

I admit, sometimes I wish I wasn't so much of a one trick pony and that I knew more about the guitar. A few years back I heard of a player outside Philly, about 2 hours from me. I heard some clips, WoW! Was he good!
If only I could learn a thimble full of what he knows I would be happy. So I made arrangements for a lesson and made the 4 hour round trip.
Since it was the first time we had met he said let me hear you play something. I noodled around a bit and he said something like, you sound nice, sounds like you have learned some patterns and phrases and put them together pretty well. But you don't know why, do you ?
He was absolutely right, I don't know anything about theory. But it was too far and too expensive to go back for any more lessons so I never did.

About 2 years later, after just having a really great time playing with friends at our local jam, I remembered his comment, "I didn't know why ~~~"
It made me remember back to when I was a very little boy and I discovered I had a penis. Then I discovered how much fun it was to have a penis and how good it felt. And just like with guitar playin', it wasn't really important that I knew WHY I had a penis in order to have so much fun and feel so good.

Just my humble opinion Progrmr, but I'd suggest you put your guitar away and put your lessons on hold for a while. Listen to music that moves you, stuff that makes you pucker up your face and makes the hair on your arms stand up. If you don't know of any music that makes you react like that, maybe you're not meant to play an instrument. If you do know some, let yourself go free while you're listening. It should make you want to sing along and dance,. Don't try to capture the notes and solos, just capture the energy. Once you own the energy, it will find it's own way to get out :AOK

[Tig]

Post Of The Week!
:applause

[Katastrophe]

I agree, Tig. Otaypanky's post is chock full o' sig worthy quotes! And, it makes good sense, too.

[otaypanky]

When I said that once you own the energy it will find it's own way to get out, this is NOT what I meant

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/otaypanky/fart.jpg

[markb]

Otaypanky, YES!! :applause

Sounds like we have an attitude in common.

[deeaa]

Well said, indeed. Great advice for anyone.