Friday, Wet - so time for some grunge

[sunvalleylaw]

It is Friday again, it is wet and rainy here in Idaho. The kind of day that makes me want to put on my flannel shirt and jeans, grab a jacket and go walk in the woods by a river or up a mountain, listening to the birds and the watertil I am soaking wet. Bottom line, a Seattle grungey day.

This is the first song that came to mind. Shaky vid, but good audio and nice performance in Seattle.

eFEAoPU9gEg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFEAoPU9gEg


It is going to be on my learn list for campfire purposes. Lots of possibilities for layers of wankery, and I can sing it.

Here is McCready and friends wanking away at extended solo time (with some Stairway to Heaven thrown in).

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And here is the counterpart band, wailing away.

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=DnFiVUQFpG4

So closet grunge fans, post your favorites. Those who hate grunge, that's fine. This thread is not for you. Enjoy your Friday! I plan to go get out in the rain. :happy

[Katastrophe]

One of my faves from that time:

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[sunvalleylaw]

Good one Kat, the guys from Spanaway.

[red]

What do you mean "closet grunge fans"? I'm completely out in the open, and proud! Just got my new Record Store Day Soundgarden T-Shirt a couple of days ago.

Here are a couple of my favourites:

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[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah you are right. Wear your flannel proud over the top of that new SG t-shirt.

[Commodore 64]

I think I just threw up a little. I pretty much can't stand grunge and all thigns that spawned from it.

[red]

Yeah you are right. Wear your flannel proud over the top of that new SG t-shirt.
Will do, kind sir. Will do.

[sunvalleylaw]

I think I just threw up a little. I pretty much can't stand grunge and all thigns that spawned from it.

Well, then like I said, this thread is not for you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. ;) (all in good fun of course).

[Jimi75]

Rainy day, dream away....yeah man I loved Grunge, was totally into it!
Besides the well known ones, I also loved these:

He was to good to be true - Jeff Buckley:
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The Afghan Wigs:
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[Eric]

I tend not to like Pearl Jam because I think Eddie Vedder is so pretentious and he had a major part in the whole "Seattle Throat" phenomenon propagated by countless others like Scott Stapp, etc. HOWEVER...I do like some of Mike McCready's guitar playing.

I was totally into music around this time, and while I had tons of bands I liked, the ones I remember the best seem to be the big names:

Alice in Chains

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and Soundgarden

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[Kazz]

ahhh I love me some Alice In Chains.....While Grunge pretty much spelled the end for the hair metal that I loved so much in the late 80s.....there was some good music coming out of Seattle at that time. Unfortunately 2 of the greats....Layne and Kurt did not make it out.

[Kazz]

Thanks Eric for that reminder of Tripod.

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, now that we have some groups out there, let's discuss aspects. Whose vocal wail/howl/whatever did you like the best? I am going to say Kurt, as it hits some primal scream bone in me. I love the more mellow Vedder stuff, like Mary above, but I am just not as into his howl as much as Kurt's wail. I also liked Cornell and Layne Straley, probably overall before Vedder. For guitar, I probably pick Cantrell or McCready.

Jimi, thanks for posting some of the less known stuff. I like me some Afghan Whigs.

This is my favorite lesser known band:

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=zrUA7kOySZQ&feature=related

Check out lead guitarist Steve Turner on the Hagstrom!

[Spudman]

I went for the new Alice In Chains along with the latest Porcupine Tree for my soggy bike ride. Grunge would have just pissed me off.

[Eric]

Ok, now that we have some groups out there, let's discuss aspects. Whose vocal wail/howl/whatever did you like the best? I am going to say Kurt, as it hits some primal scream bone in me. I love the more mellow Vedder stuff, like Mary above, but I am just not as into his howl as much as Kurt's wail. I also liked Cornell and Layne Straley, probably overall before Vedder.
If you want to call him grunge, Billie Joe Armstrong does a pretty good scream. I guess that's not really a howl though...


For guitar, I probably pick Cantrell or McCready.
I think I agree with this. When I was picking out youtube vids for my post, I was thinking how I like both of those guys. McCready's solos may have elicited that 'c*ck rock' quote from Kurt back in the day, but I think he's surprisingly decent. Quite honestly, Cantrell is the only guitarist who really stood out during this period for me.

Man, I'm realizing all of the bands that haven't been mentioned like Cracker, Everclear, Screaming Trees, etc. I won't say Everclear was ever a real envelope-pushing band, but they had a few cool tunes. I love this era of music.

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, Eric, I agree with you and also like Cracker, Everclear, Screaming Trees, Green Day, The Offspring, Sublime, etc. from those days. But I don't consider those guys grunge in the sense that I go there right away on rainy, misty days. The grunge I was talking about came really from Olympia/Aberdeen/Hoquiam, Auburn, Spanaway, . . . outlying rural areas in western WA experiencing decline due to the slow death of old growth logging, lost fisheries, etc, and oncoming californication and sprawl. Seattle was the musical melting pot for those artists.

But I still liked those other bands a lot. Cracker supplied san anthem for me for a long time, as I was tired of traditional and boomer era folk music at the time.


Re: what Kurt said about Pearl Jam, McCready, etc., I just ignored that stuff. Kurt had his view, but PJ could certainly carve its own path without his permission. I still think Kurt nailed the angst and wail better though.

[Katastrophe]

I prefer Staley's voice over the others. AIC was/is probably my favorite band out of the grunge groups. The vocal harmonies between Layne Staley and Jerry Cantrell was powerful.

[sunvalleylaw]

I prefer Staley's voice over the others. AIC was/is probably my favorite band out of the grunge groups. The vocal harmonies between Layne Staley and Jerry Cantrell was powerful.

Concur on those vocals harmonies.

[Eric]

Yeah, Eric, I agree with you and also like Cracker, Everclear, Screaming Trees, Green Day, The Offspring, Sublime, etc. from those days. But I don't consider those guys grunge in the sense that I go there right away on rainy, misty days.
Screaming Trees weren't grunge?

I think I get your point, but I guess I'd say that the defining part of grunge was the music, not necessarily where a given band formed. Seattle was definitely the birthplace of many of those bands, but I always attributed that to zeitgeist/90s scene. I thought the music itself was rooted in 80s underground more than anything else. IIRC, Vedder was a surfer dude from SoCal...

BUT it is all how you interpret it to some degree. I think music gains significance by what it makes you think and feel.

[sunvalleylaw]

Screaming Trees were grunge. From Ellensburg, WA east of the Cascades. I misspoke there. The rest were other than grunge 90s tunes. You are absolutely correct that grunge was really late 80s underground tunes also. Real grunge was Washington based, and came from rain soaked, depressed areas of Western WA in my mind anyhow. That is why it is such good rainy day music for me. Let's get back to the tunes:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs2m6cS0sTA&feature=related

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_XVHkpBaxk

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbAbMZEt4Uw

[sunvalleylaw]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kV8g2av2nQvw

QKjSTugOAAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKjSTugOAAA
This one was a regular Friday night song, while watching Bevis and Butthead with the sound off.

[red]

If you want to call him grunge, Billie Joe Armstrong does a pretty good scream. I guess that's not really a howl though...

No, I wouldn't call BJA grunge - I'd call him bubblegum punk or something along those lines. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[red]

Screaming Trees weren't grunge?

Yes they were.


I thought the music itself was rooted in 80s underground more than anything else. IIRC, Vedder was a surfer dude from SoCal..
Vedder was not a Seattle resident initially, no, but all the rest of the members were. In fact, Pearl Jam is Mother Love Bone with Vedder substituted for Andy Wood (who had died from drug overdose) - that, and obviously a somewhat different musical direction.

The best documentation resources for grunge that I found were these:

The "Hype!" documentary:
http://www.amazon.com/Hype-7-Year-*****/dp/B000654YK6/

The book "Grunge Is Dead: The Oral History of Seattle Rock Music":
http://www.amazon.com/Grunge-Dead-History-Seattle-Music/dp/1550228773/

Just in case anyone is interested. "Hype!" really is a must-see, so I recommend you rent it maybe.

[Kazz]

Everclear definitely was not grunge.....they were almost pop....but lets call them rock because of course as I call them they are "Portland's Own - EverClear"

Man when I lived in Oregon I was so proud to say that EverClear was from there too.....I loved Santa Monica.....but back on subject


To me....at least Layne Staley was the quintessential voice of grunge music. The scream to a howl thing. Of course Scott Weiland of Stone Temple Pilots was not far behind either.

Eddie Vedder I thought was damn good too...up until he decided to use his music for a political statement....then I just lost interest.

Chris Cornell was/is still probably the strongest actual singer of the whole era as far as range goes. That Temple of The Dog - Hungerstrike video above demonstrates how good Cornell and Vedder could be.

As for guitar....the only one that really stood out to me is Jerry Cantrell. I cannot even tell you who played guitar in most of the other grunge bands. Cobain was pretty good for rhythm.

I for one am glad to see that Alice In Chains is back....the new singer does the old material some serious justice in my book.

We just watched a Stone Temple Pilots show on Palladia the other night and while Weiland still sounds good.....just looking at him makes my skin crawl.

[red]

Eddie Vedder I thought was damn good too...up until he decided to use his music for a political statement....then I just lost interest.
When was that? Pearl Jam's first album Ten has it's fair share of political songs. Even Flow is a _very_ political song, for example. And in Temple of the Dog, Hungerstrike?... "I don't mind stealing bread from the mouths of decadence / But I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled"? That's not a political statement?

I also don't think that Kim Thayil and Krist Novoselic's association with the No WTO Combo is a coincidence. Grunge definitely has a marked political side, if nothing else because grunge has punk roots and punk's always come with an ethic and an extreme political stance.

So to make a long story short, I think the political aspect of grunge is one of it's strongpoints. I also think that only a handful of bands are good enough musically to be worth wasting my time without a real message of some sort.

[Eric]

Everclear definitely was not grunge.....they were almost pop....but lets call them rock because of course as I call them they are "Portland's Own - EverClear"

Man when I lived in Oregon I was so proud to say that EverClear was from there too.....I loved Santa Monica.....but back on subject


To me....at least Layne Staley was the quintessential voice of grunge music. The scream to a howl thing. Of course Scott Weiland of Stone Temple Pilots was not far behind either.

Eddie Vedder I thought was damn good too...up until he decided to use his music for a political statement....then I just lost interest.

Chris Cornell was/is still probably the strongest actual singer of the whole era as far as range goes. That Temple of The Dog - Hungerstrike video above demonstrates how good Cornell and Vedder could be.

As for guitar....the only one that really stood out to me is Jerry Cantrell. I cannot even tell you who played guitar in most of the other grunge bands. Cobain was pretty good for rhythm.

I for one am glad to see that Alice In Chains is back....the new singer does the old material some serious justice in my book.

We just watched a Stone Temple Pilots show on Palladia the other night and while Weiland still sounds good.....just looking at him makes my skin crawl.
+1 to all of this.

[BigJD]

Those were some days.
My little brother was in studio B and Queensryche were in studio A in eastern Seattle.
Myself and my first wife were wondering around down by the piers in the rain wondering why nobody in Seattle had a tan!?!?!
You could go into the bars and hear all of this music being born.
Go to the chicken coops as my brother called them in northern Seattle and there would be bands jamming in every other one.
Hair metal was dying and Grunge was coming of age.
My brother recorded a couple of albums up there before heading off to Boston and Berkley music school.
I on the other hand stayed in Idaho.

[Kazz]

When was that? Pearl Jam's first album Ten has it's fair share of political songs. Even Flow is a _very_ political song, for example. And in Temple of the Dog, Hungerstrike?... "I don't mind stealing bread from the mouths of decadence / But I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled"? That's not a political statement?

I also don't think that Kim Thayil and Krist Novoselic's association with the No WTO Combo is a coincidence. Grunge definitely has a marked political side, if nothing else because grunge has punk roots and punk's always come with an ethic and an extreme political stance.

So to make a long story short, I think the political aspect of grunge is one of it's strongpoints. I also think that only a handful of bands are good enough musically to be worth wasting my time without a real message of some sort.


Let's see....uh how about when he decided not to do any shows where the tickets would be sold by Tickemaster? Robbing fans of the ability to see them in markets where Ticketmaster had sole agreements with venues?

[red]

Let's see....uh how about when he decided not to do any shows where the tickets would be sold by Tickemaster? Robbing fans of the ability to see them in markets where Ticketmaster had sole agreements with venues?
That's certainly one way of looking at it. Another would be that they were battling Ticketmaster at significant personal and band career cost, so that ticket prices would stop being artificially inflated and more fans would be able to see them. That that failed is probably more of a testament of how monopolies tend to have the right friends than of the band's commitment to solving the problem. It's also probably good to notice that that was a band decision (Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament also testified in court), so it's not true that it was solely Vedder's decision.

I think it's pretty funny that 1. Pearl Jam's always been political lyrically, and 2. they've been pushing all kinds of things, from books by Howard Zinn to campaigning for Ralph Nader and Barrack Obama, and yet your best example was the battle with Ticketmaster :).

[sunvalleylaw]

Cornell is an awesome singer, and Staley is great too. But Kurt is still the quintessential seattle grunge voice for me. I loved STP, but thought they came from grunge and were not actual grunge. They were more lush and produced in my mind. They are still on my iPod, and form the basis for a genius playlist though.

I was not much of a fan of other grunge latecomers or followers such as Candlebox or Bush.

I love Billy Joe's voice and scream and have enjoyed GD since those years, but they were the "other stuff" on The End (the seattle alternative station), not particularly grunge.

I take Vedder for who he is, and like I said, like his mellower stuff. I can sing it, it is heartfelt, and rings with me. When it comes to wailing or howling, I generally prefer the others. I didn't mind him taking a stand on some things. I really dislike ticketmaster. It is too bad it screwed up concert opportunities for some people though.

More tunes now, this time acoustic:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xHl-P_arVA&feature=related
this one is hauntingly beautiful.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0UkxWduyGQ&feature=related
such a good sound.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltc5EsuyBh4&feature=related

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1LXXRzXg-w

[red]

I was not much of a fan of other grunge latecomers or followers such as Candlebox or Bush.

Indeed. And how can we forget Silverchair.
And may Nickelback, Staind, and Puddle of Mudd have short careers too.

[sunvalleylaw]

PTTsyk-pyd8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTTsyk-pyd8

One more, including a boomer era artist who gets it.

[red]

Nice find, if you liked that you should give this a listen:

http://www.amazon.com/Mirror-Ball-Neil-Young/dp/B000002MZ9/

It's an album that Neil Young recorded with Pearl Jam (minus Vedder).

Long live Old Black! :)