Any Tube Works fans about?

[Moander]

Just wondering, short of a few 2 year old threads, if there were any fans of the old Tube Works / BK Butler product line that are active?

Discuss...

[hubberjub]

I posted about TW in your introduction post but I'll respond here as well. I currently own a Blue Tube, Real Tube II, and a Mosvalve power amp.

[Moander]

I caught that :)

Thanks for the visit also....

Though I'm quite the Tube Works fan, I've never sat own with a Blue Tube....

I've not sat down with anything of BK's I did not like, but am curious how you like it? Differences from the Real Tube sound?

[tunghaichuan]

I used to own two of their power amps, the 1U 80x80 rackmount and the 2U 80x80 rackmount. I used them in a stereo rig, and they worked and sounded great.

I've owned the Tube Driver floor pedals, but I never did like the sound much and ended up getting rid of them.

I believe Tube Works used to be based in Denver, but I don't see much used Tube Works stuff around here.

[Moander]

BK Butler is still in Co... just making the Tube Driver pedal now...

I haven't messed with a Tube Driver pedal, but I plan to soon....

[deeaa]

I had, at one point, an Ampeg VT-22 and because it was single-channel, I needed a preamp of sorts. I had a boss multifx I used for drives, and then I got this Chandler Tube Works rack preamp.

I think I tried it once, didn't think it gave enough gain or something, and sold the entire rig the next day, swapping for a red-knob twin.

Hm, I have a picture of the rig with the boss (in the box with an Alesis sticker) here:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_6nk96PAbWiI/Rp9ZQ4a1GNI/AAAAAAAAAHI/hUgPsMXRh8c/21.jpg

That's me with the Les Paul.

Anyway, a month after I sold the bunch, I went to see this band and the guitarist played my ex rig with the Tube Works preamp and IT SOUNDED SO GOOD I spend the whole night smacking myself over the head for selling the damned rig and basically for peanuts. I think I got something like 350 marks (which would have been, um, 80 bucks or so in that day and age) and I had to pay another 80 or so in between for the Twin.

Ever since I've been hankering for a butler/chandler drive but these days there are precious few around, and when I see one, it costs HUNDREDS and I never have even nearly that much...

[Moander]

Heh, I got alot of those salt in the wound stories too :)

I'm told too, that the Chandler's weren't even the real deal, and many say they sound great.. I've yet to run across a Chandler...

[tunghaichuan]

Heh, I got alot of those salt in the wound stories too :)

I'm told too, that the Chandler's weren't even the real deal, and many say they sound great.. I've yet to run across a Chandler...

Now that you mention it, I did own two of the rackmount Chandler Tube Drivers. Back in the late 80s/early 90s you could pick them up cheap. I think I paid $50 each. Now you can't even find them.

And you are correct, they did not sound all that great.

I just saw an ebay auction the other day where the single space rackmount Tube Works power amp went for $350. :what Mine went for about $150 on ebay about 5 years ago. I wish I had kept it now. :thwap

[sunvalleylaw]

I have jammed with some guys that really, really like the "Real Tube" drive pedals. They seem nice, and sound good in their rigs.

[Katastrophe]

I posted in the other thread, too. But, I am a big fan of MosValve power amps.

If I was building another rack system, I wouldn't hesitate to use another one.

[Eric]

I'll readily admit I know nothing about any of this. What's the deal? They seem like rackmount power amps (is that accurate?) from the discussion here, but I don't have time to do much googling right now. What makes these so great? Just curious.

[tunghaichuan]

I'll readily admit I know nothing about any of this. What's the deal? They seem like rackmount power amps (is that accurate?) from the discussion here, but I don't have time to do much googling right now. What makes these so great? Just curious.

The rackmount power amps are very warm sounding, almost tube-like. They get warmer souding as you push them as they use mosfet transistors, which can be made to sound similar to tubes. Mosfets distort in a manner similar to tubes, unlike other types of transistors.

Tube Works made rackmount preamps and power amps, but they also made guitar combo amps, heads and cabinets using mosfets in the power stage and tubes in the preamp, operating in starved-plate mode, or low voltages on the plates. This means in effect that the tubes were easy to overdrive.

They also made a line of stomp boxes with tubes running in starved plate mode.

[Eric]

The rackmount power amps are very warm sounding, almost tube-like. They get warmer souding as you push them as they use mosfet transistors, which can be made to sound similar to tubes. Mosfets distort in a manner similar to tubes, unlike other types of transistors.

Tube Works made rackmount preamps and power amps, but they also made guitar combo amps, heads and cabinets using mosfets in the power stage and tubes in the preamp, operating in starved-plate mode, or low voltages on the plates. This means in effect that the tubes were easy to overdrive.

They also made a line of stomp boxes with tubes running in starved plate mode.
That's interesting. I always wondered what the fuss was about MOSFET stuff, but couldn't find a succinct answer.

In Moander's intro post (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=15472), I thought he mentioned that he uses Tube Works power amps because the COSM modeling technology he uses works best with an extremely clean power amp. Knowing a little bit about tube-ish amps, it doesn't seem too likely to me that something sounding like a tube would give the world's cleanest signal, since it's a gradual descent into distortion from all of the harmonics and overtones as the amp begins to distort. Is there more to the story?

Also interesting about the starved-plate thing. Is that saying that instead of some level of diode clipping, all preamp distortion comes from preamp tubes on the edge of being overdriven? Again, this is something I've seen referenced in the past, but have not really understood.

Thanks for all of the info.

[tunghaichuan]

That's interesting. I always wondered what the fuss was about MOSFET stuff, but couldn't find a succinct answer.

In Moander's intro post (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=15472), I thought he mentioned that he uses Tube Works power amps because the COSM modeling technology he uses works best with an extremely clean power amp. Knowing a little bit about tube-ish amps, it doesn't seem too likely to me that something sounding like a tube would give the world's cleanest signal, since it's a gradual descent into distortion from all of the harmonics and overtones as the amp begins to distort. Is there more to the story?


That is the nice thing about mosfet amps, if you keep the volume on the lowish side and don't push it, they stay very clean. The tube works stuff is very clean at lower volumes, but gets warmer as you turn it up. At least that's my experience with the The Tube Works power amps.

Other solid state amps are lacking in warmth (which is an other way of saying that they are sparkly clean with almost no measurable distortion.) It is possible for an amp to be distorting but does not sound like it is distorting. The amp may be producing harmonic distortion, but it sounds warmer. Other non-mosfet types of amps sound clean, and the ones with the least harmonic distortion sound very clean right up to the point that they distort, then they square wave. A mosfet clips gradually like a tube does.



Also interesting about the starved-plate thing. Is that saying that instead of some level of diode clipping, all preamp distortion comes from preamp tubes on the edge of being overdriven? Again, this is something I've seen referenced in the past, but have not really understood.


I don't know much about the theory, but the tubes aren't just on the edge of clipping, they are massively clipping, it is the effect of running the tubes at very low plate voltages: it is easy to overdrive the tube as it has virtually no clean headroom. The tube driver circuit does not have clipping diodes in it to my knowledge.

[tunghaichuan]

Saw this today:

http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/1797230579.html

I bought two of those in the past for $50 each, which wasn't a bad deal at the time but I wouldn't want to spend any more than that. I don't think B.K. Butler is mentioned anywhere on the unit itself. :thwap

[sunvalleylaw]

They also made a line of stomp boxes with tubes running in starved plate mode.

That is what I saw used by some local guys. I think one had the glass portion of the tube visible, showing that warm tube glow. They seemed to sound pretty good.

[Moander]

Saw this today:

http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/1797230579.html

I bought two of those in the past for $50 each, which wasn't a bad deal at the time but I wouldn't want to spend any more than that. I don't think B.K. Butler is mentioned anywhere on the unit itself. :thwap

You have to be careful with the Chandler stuff....BK Butler had a deal with them initially, and, to keep things short, the deal came to an end, and Chandler continued on making those units after BK had moved on...

BK himself warns people that the Chandler stuff is probably not 100% his designs...This is not to say they can't sound good.....at $50 hell I'd buy one too....

@ Eric:
I have the Boss GT-6 COSM floor MFX box....
I tried it over many years through all types of amps, clean, dirty, and in my opinion, to get the most out of the COSM technology, you need an amp that is as clean as possible.

The Tube Works/Mosvalve stuff is very clean, and has been indicated, gets a nice, warm, toasty sound as you turn it up......

Most amps I've tried get dirty as you crank them up....

[fatoomsh]

I mentioned it in my intro but I am a new owner of an old rt3300 head. Perfect condition. Couldn't believe it.
Had a combo of theirs years ago and it sounded great at first then seemed to deteriorate over time. I sold it when it got too annoying but it might well have been the guitar I was using at the time that was partly responsible.
Haven't had the chance to give it a real wind up but the info found on this thread has meade me even keener to crank it up.

[fatoomsh]

Hey I've found a scratchy 'lo' pot on my rt3300 which seems to drop in and out a little. Is this something major. I've never changed a pot before but it can't be too hard. Okay it might be hard, but I have to give it a shot. I'm just a little worried about the slight drop out of bottom end sometimes.
Any ideas?

[Moander]

Sorry I didn't catch this earlier.... I'd recommend trying a pot cleaner first.. the spray they sell at Radio Shack is pretty good.....

Spray a bit in, run the pot around several times, re-spray, re-work the pot....

Put some paper towel on the area around the circuit board, so overspray isn't too much of a problem. I spray my pots from the business end...

[Moander]

An update for those of you interested.... the link in my sig is now a full fledged site on Tube works stuff... I've archived the manuals there, no telling how long GB will offer them....

If any Tube Works fans wanna come over and help out, please do drop on by....