Who likes Grunge?

[Robert]

Grunge - what did it do to guitar players all over the world? I think it took the shredder mentality away, to some degree at least. Perhaps some think that's a good thing.

The Grunge movement left me completely cold. Musically speaking, it was dead boring to me. So I just stayed away and worked on my good old blues licks and jazz progressions.

How about you?

[Tone2TheBone]

I liked it. I built my house to it. Staying up late nights working on our house in the 90s listening to ZRock radio. Grunge goes great with a circular saw in hand.

[Rockermann]

I couldn't and still can't stand it. Simplistic guitar, no solos (like you alluded to) and whining/moaning vocals. And what was up with all the flannel?

The 90's blew when it came to rock music, especially grunge. It seemed like everyone was trying to do the same thing. One band sounded like the next (and that still applies to most of the rock music today). It sounds like the same producer is working for all the artists and there is no individuality left.

There's a few modern rock acts I like. Tool, Alice in Chains... but that's about it.

[duhvoodooman]

Grunge goes great with a circular saw in hand.
No thanks. I'd be tempted to use it on my head after 2 or 3 songs....

[Eric]

I like it. 'Real' grunge (according to SVL) and the offshoots of it are what I cut my teeth on in the early to mid 90s. Anybody can say any style of music sounds the same, but that's mostly due to an unfamiliarity with it.

Probably not my favorite style of music any more, but definitely a time in music I value and something that put out a lot of stuff that I like. Still, I don't find myself playing it too much any more. Maybe I should revisit it...

[Commodore 64]

I like flannel shirts and patterns. I wear a lot of it. But I pretty much hate grunge. I freakin' HATE Nirvana, and their offspring. I don't really know what "grunge" really is but I pretty much despise: Nickelback, Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam, 3 Doors Down, Creed, Nirvana, Alice in Chains (Except for the Dirt album), Soundgarden (except for the song, Pretty Noose), Candle Box, Bush, Green Day. That's all garbage that makes me want to gouge my ears out. I don't know if it's all "grunge", but to me grunge started the decline of music into what it is today and includes all of those craptastic bands.

It's awful. I'd take the worst hair band over the best grunge band every day of the week and 2x on Sundays.

[marnold]

Grunge is a rather wide definition, encompassing such diverse groups as Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam, to name some of the big ones. To me Nirvana's "Nevermind" is a classic. There's a lot for me to like about Alice in Chains and Soundgarden too. I never really got into Pearl Jam. I don't think grunge killed metal. Too many Poison wannabes killed metal.

I agree with Steve/Rockermann about the 90s in general though. Painful time for rock music. That decade gave us Nu Metal (infinitely worse than grunge) and made Billie Joe Armstrong a guitar hero. Shoot me. Shoot me now. The new millennium was a major breath of fresh air.

[Commodore 64]

The new millennium was a major breath of fresh air.

I'm still waiting for that air. Is there anything good out now in rock? Other than Bonamasa, whom I like, but not enough to listen to one of his CDs over and over, like for example Blue Oyster Cult, or UFO (which I'm jsut getting into now). It distresses me, that in order to find music that I liek I keep having to go back in time. I remember thinking my parents were anachronistic because they listened to "oldies". I'm pretty sure the stuff I listen to now, would be considered "oldies" by my daughters as soon as they get old enough to hate me.

[Rockermann]

It's awful. I'd take the worst hair band over the best grunge band every day of the week and 2x on Sundays.

Amen. I think another reason I hated grunge is that it's such a downer. I never liked country music either as it was always about prison, divorce, loosing your job etc. Same type of stuff with grunge. Who want's to listen to all of that, over and over. Give me a band that writes about chicks, partying and having a great time. Now that I can listen to. :D

[duhvoodooman]

I think another reason I hated grunge is that it's such a downer.
Yeah, I'd much rather listen to something positive and uplifting. Like Slipknot.... :puke: :rollover

[Eric]

I agree with Steve/Rockermann about the 90s in general though. Painful time for rock music. That decade gave us Nu Metal (infinitely worse than grunge) and made Billie Joe Armstrong a guitar hero. Shoot me. Shoot me now. The new millennium was a major breath of fresh air.
What exactly is Nu Metal? I've seen it referenced so so much, but I don't really know what it is. Any examples or anything?

I've been going through music I liked in the 90s, and I guess it's true that there aren't a lot of blistering guitar solos. Odd that I think that stuff defined rock for me at that critical age of 14 or so. Rock music can definitely be more than guitar solos, but I find it curious that people say this music was ready-made to flush down the toilet. There's a ton of stuff from the 90s that I won't touch (Creed/Nickelback/3 Doors Down), but that always seemed so clearly in the 'crappy' pile, I never even thought that people would lump it all together.

Interesting.

[hubberjub]

I view it as a much needed colonic for the music industry. I loved metal, but it had gotten stale. It needed to be shaken up. The initial wave of grunge bands was great. It was different and quite diverse. You had the raw sounds of Nirvana, but you also had the melodically interesting writing styles of Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains. Soundgarden was one of the first bands since the prog rock movement that embraced odd time signatures. No, the eyeliner wearing, pink guitar playing guitarists weren't shredding anymore, but that wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Grunge, like most popular things, became a fashion statement. It turned into a mockery of what it started out as and it imploded. It was funny to see metal bands that tried to latch on to the success of the grunge scene.

[Commodore 64]

One of the corniest songs in the world has to be "Free Time" by Gamma Ray, but I still love it.

[Eric]

I'm still waiting for that air. Is there anything good out now in rock? Other than Bonamasa, whom I like, but not enough to listen to one of his CDs over and over, like for example Blue Oyster Cult, or UFO (which I'm jsut getting into now). It distresses me, that in order to find music that I liek I keep having to go back in time. I remember thinking my parents were anachronistic because they listened to "oldies". I'm pretty sure the stuff I listen to now, would be considered "oldies" by my daughters as soon as they get old enough to hate me.
I really think it depends on what you like. Also, you have to do your homework and find the music that's out there. Good music is *always* being made. Sometimes it's in the form of revivalists of a certain style, but it's there.

To say the music of a certain time period sucks is just saying you haven't looked very hard and have listened to too much pop radio. Were the aughts defined by Gwen Stefani and Justin Timberlake? I don't think so.

My favorite example of this is the 80s. Many people look at 80s music as a joke. Sure, there was a lot of Madonna and Michael Jackson, but you also had everything from Poison to Iron Maiden to The Smiths and bands like Dead Can Dance. Or New Order. Or Blondie. Or The Church. I mean, there were plenty of things happening musically, but somehow people only remember it as the time when Flock of Seagulls and Frankie Goes to Hollywood had hits.

[Commodore 64]

When you say The Church do you mean Metal Church? Because Metal Church is pretty awesome. The song Beyond the Black still freaks me out, it's scary.

[Eric]

When you say The Church do you mean Metal Church? Because Metal Church is pretty awesome. The song Beyond the Black still freaks me out, it's scary.
I was talking about these guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_%28band%29), but the point remains even with Metal Church.

[pes_laul]

Grunge (or just alternatuve) is probably my favorite music. Like foo fighters, stone temple pilots, pearl jam, soundgarden etc. and I dont think it was all guitar weak, layne staley is a killer guitarist. and so Is kim thayil.

[marnold]

What exactly is Nu Metal? I've seen it referenced so so much, but I don't really know what it is. Any examples or anything?
For example: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, Papa Roach, Korn

The sad thing is that it started out with something infinitely cool: a collaboration between Anthrax and Public Enemy. It went rapidly downhill from there.

[marnold]

layne staley is a killer guitarist
Layne Staley is actually the late lead singer of Alice in Chains. Jerry Cantrell is the guitarist. I agree that he is very good.

[marnold]

Amen. I think another reason I hated grunge is that it's such a downer. I never liked country music either as it was always about prison, divorce, loosing your job etc. Same type of stuff with grunge. Who want's to listen to all of that, over and over. Give me a band that writes about chicks, partying and having a great time. Now that I can listen to. :D
You could make the same argument about the blues: "My woman done left me so I'm gonna jump in the river and drown." Of course I tend to prefer the "my baby came back" blues to the "my baby done left me" blues.

Reminds me of the comedian who talked about how there are no good blues Christmas tunes. So he wrote one called "My Woman Is Dead."

"Woke up Christmas mornin'
*duh DUH duh duh duh*
My woman was dead
*duh DUH duh duh duh*
Reindeer came down the chimney
*duh DUH duh duh duh*
And stepped on her head"

[Eric]

For example: Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, Papa Roach, Korn

The sad thing is that it started out with something infinitely cool: a collaboration between Anthrax and Public Enemy. It went rapidly downhill from there.
Ooh yeah, I think the concept is OK, but the execution leaves something to be desired.

However...shameful though it is, I have to admit to liking a few Linkin Park tunes. I can't help it.

[Commodore 64]

Soul on a roll but you treat it like soap on a rope cuz the beats and the lines are so dope!

Anthrax and Public Enemy...that was a great collaboration.

[sunvalleylaw]

I liked it, and still sometimes do. I lived there during that time, and got what they were saying at the time. Part of it was frustration at californication of the PNW, part of it was the hypocrisy of the hippy/yuppy boomers, part was the aftermath of old growth logging which was being closed down due to environmental concerns, loss of fisheries, general economic depression in those areas where those guys were from, as opposed to the emerging tech economies of King County (Seattle/Bellevue/Redmond). (Nirvana was an Olympia band, Cobain was from Aberdeen/Hoquiam. Alice in Chains was from Spanaway). So it expressed stuff I felt. But I could not stay in that place for too long. I liked a lot of other stuff too.

Also, after a while, and particularly after the media made a big deal out of it, it started getting ruined. Obviously some of the artists (Cobain, Staley, and some others that got lucky and didn't kill themselves), were on unsustainable life paths. But those comments are about the side show, not Robert's question about the music. I did and do enjoy the music when I am in the mood for it.

My opinions were previously collected here.

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=8638

and more recently here:

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=15435

[bcdon]

Sure, I like grunge.. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, &c. Good music, but lacking in guitar solos. It is, what it is..

[bcdon]

I'm still waiting for that air. Is there anything good out now in rock?
Certainly. In a word: METAL! :dude

fOWB6rmSd4I
ax3oPkRqGM8

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, too bad I never liked metal. So there is less out there now for me other than the new blues guys, and a few isolated garagey punky indie bands, at least that I can find easily. Re: metal and shred, unless it is soulful, melodic, and fits the song, I just am not a big shred or guitar solo guy. I did enjoy the VanHalen singing about girls with DLR doing his thing and Eddie doing his thing. It is fun to listen to that once in a while, but most of it is just big hair, big ego wankery to me. I could just never get into it. Vai, Satriani, Malstreem, those guys too.

I have the same problem with jam bands and endless weedely weedely ala Jerry Garcia. I saw Santana open up for the Dead in 1988 in Tacoma, and Santana's sound, and playing in the context of the music, wiped the Dead all over the floor in my opinion.

I do like extended songs sometimes, and albums that have a story to them. So that opens the door to some prog for me. But mostly, I like songs to have a beginning and an end, and not have too much endless soloing. Some blues jams or jazz improv excepted. The group experimentation there makes that more interesting to me.

Grunge to me was hard rock with a punk edge musicially and lyrically. Like strip zeppelin down some, dial back the solos, replace Page's vocals with something newer, give it some relevant lyrics that talk about something, . . . to me you had something kind of fun, and that was rebelling against the stuff I did not like at the time.

[Eric]

Yeah, too bad I never liked metal. So there is less out there now for me other than the new blues guys, and a few isolated garagey punky indie bands, at least that I can find easily. Re: metal and shred, unless it is soulful, melodic, and fits the song, I just am not a big shred or guitar solo guy. I did enjoy the VanHalen singing about girls with DLR doing his thing and Eddie doing his thing. It is fun to listen to that once in a while, but most of it is just big hair, big ego wankery to me. I could just never get into it. Vai, Satriani, Malstreem, those guys too.

I have the same problem with jam bands and endless weedely weedely ala Jerry Garcia. I saw Santana open up for the Dead in 1988 in Tacoma, and Santana's sound, and playing in the context of the music, wiped the Dead all over the floor in my opinion.

I do like extended songs sometimes, and albums that have a story to them. So that opens the door to some prog for me. But mostly, I like songs to have a beginning and an end, and not have too much endless soloing. Some blues jams or jazz improv excepted. The group experimentation there makes that more interesting to me.

Grunge to me was hard rock with a punk edge musicially and lyrically. Like strip zeppelin down some, dial back the solos, replace Page's vocals with something newer, give it some relevant lyrics that talk about something, . . . to me you had something kind of fun, and that was rebelling against the stuff I did not like at the time.
Given that, there is TONS of music out there for you now. Tons.

[Robert]

Steve, what does PNW stand for?

[sunvalleylaw]

Oops sorry, the Pacific Northwest.

more about guitar solos, I don't seem to have trouble with guys like SRV, and I certainly like Mayer, Bonomassa, etc. as well. I guess I find that more melodic than the shred or metal stuff mostly. I can always find exceptions though. Eric, I am sure there is more out there. I just don't hear it much here in Idaho. I have to get on some better internet stations.

[duhvoodooman]

Oh, then it's not Pathetic NitWits, huh? ;)

[tunghaichuan]

I liked grunge when it first started. It was fresh and new sounding after the hair metal bands became a self-parody of themselves.

I think some grunge was punk inspired; e.g., Nirvana, and some bands like Soundgarden were more metal/Black Sabbath inspired. Since it all came from a specific geographic region, there was a lot of cross pollination going on.

I still remember hearing "Smells Like Teen Spirit" for the first time. It was the voice of Gen X crying out in protest against all the yuppie/boomer types.

Ultimately, it died the way a lot of musical trends die; out of nowhere the grassroots level bands become popular, then the recording industry takes notice, signs lots of bands and ultimately waters it down making it self parody.

I liked some of it, but some of it did come off as pretentious and/or whiny.

[pes_laul]

Layne Staley is actually the late lead singer of Alice in Chains. Jerry Cantrell is the guitarist. I agree that he is very good.
:thwap I always got them mixed up haha.

[FrankenFretter]

Like Steve, I'm from the PNW. I guess I'm still there, technically, although it seems far removed from the PNW I know and love. I lived in the Seattle area from 1990 to 1994, so I was right in the middle of it. Although I was never a huge fan of Nirvana (they do have some stuff I like, just not enough to own it), I loved Soundgarden (Kim Thayill has a HUGE guitar sound, even if he doesn't wallow in solos), Alice in Chains, and Pearl Jam. To me, Ten was Pearl Jam's opus and could never be followed up on, sort of like Meatloaf's Bat Out of Hell. That's just me though.

The Grunge movement was a neccessary change, I think. The air had become stagnant, and the scene needed to be shaken. I don't listen to much of that stuff now, but I'm sure it had a hand in shaping some of my musical choices these days.

As for Grunge being depressing, that is true for some of it for sure. Steve mentioned that Kurt Cobain was from Aberdeen; if you've ever been there, you'd understand why he might have been depressed. And then there's all the rain we get in the Northwest...that can also be depressing. Maybe that's what Grunge really was...the voice of the rainclouds.

That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Commodore 64]

I remember someone saying "Why don't Kurt Cobain, Billy Corgan and Eddie Vedder just commit suicide already and get it over with." It was pretty funny at the time. I thought it was hilarious given the whiny, angry, angsty, complaining nature of their songs. Then Kurt went and did it. I definitely didn't think it was funny, but I can't say that I was surprised, either.

[Eric]

I remember someone saying "Why don't Kurt Cobain, Billy Corgan and Eddie Vedder just commit suicide already and get it over with." It was pretty funny at the time. I thought it was hilarious given the whiny, angry, angsty, complaining nature of their songs. Then Kurt went and did it. I definitely didn't think it was funny, but I can't say that I was surprised, either.
Nice. I do think that's pretty funny, although it's harder to say that since Kurt went and ruined the joke...

Makes me wonder what sort of comparable remarks I'd have about the emo scene if I bothered to pay any attention to that at all.

[pes_laul]

Nice. I do think that's pretty funny, although it's harder to say that since Kurt went and ruined the joke...

Makes me wonder what sort of comparable remarks I'd have about the emo scene if I bothered to pay any attention to that at all.
http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/thum_10004c211acb50335.jpg (http://www.thefret.net/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1654):dance

[Eric]

http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/thum_10004c211acb50335.jpg (http://www.thefret.net/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1654):dance
Awesome.

[Kazz]

Glad you cleared that up Rev.....I was about to go back and look at my AIC collection to see if I missed Layne playing guitar somewhere.

[sunvalleylaw]

Sometimes, Grunge can serve as a coping tool, if used sparingly. Example: Back when I was a public defender, particularly in juvenile or child protection matters, I would find myself involved in disputes involving multiple levels of unreasonable inept or more likely simply over worked . . . (remainder deleted to avoid politics. Suffice it to say I was frustrated). I would find myself hauling my butt down to court for a hearing that was (text deleted, replaced again with frustrating.)

On the way down to court, I would like to put on this song and scream along for 5 minutes . . .

t9sHoDrNEPg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9sHoDrNEPg

After doing so, I had it out of my system, and could speak in a productive way to the lawyers, judges and people involved, without losing it.

Then later, I would like to listen to something more positive. But on the way to court, it provided a much needed release.

"Coping with Cobain"? A new self help book? ;)

[sunvalleylaw]

I like flannel shirts and patterns. I wear a lot of it. But I pretty much hate grunge. I freakin' HATE Nirvana (Like, part of original grunge), and their offspring. I don't really know what "grunge" really is but I pretty much despise: Nickelback (dislike, post grunge posers), Foo Fighters (ok, but post grunge), Pearl Jam (Grunge, like some, don't like some), 3 Doors Down( don't even know those guys), Creed (way post grunge, too polished and posey), Nirvana ](As said, I like)[/B], Alice in Chains (Lots of good stuff here, more polished than most grunge) (Except for the Dirt album), Soundgarden (Like, Cornell has great vocals) (except for the song, Pretty Noose), Candle Box (Big dislike, copiers), Bush (Same), Green Day (like, but different category, pop punk). That's all garbage that makes me want to gouge my ears out. I don't know if it's all "grunge", but to me grunge started the decline of music into what it is today and includes all of those craptastic bands.

It's awful. I'd take the worst hair band over the best grunge band every day of the week and 2x on Sundays.

I also dislike a few of the bands you posted above. Grunge was over by the time Nickelback came around. I inserted my opinions about the bands you mentioned above. To me, real grunge was largely unproduced, was indie, was rebellious against what had been going on. When it became a national thing that record labels wanted a part of, and bands started trying to sound like grunge, it was over. Tung and Hubberjub hit that right on the head in their posts above.

[Eric]

I also dislike a few of the bands you post. Grunge was over by the time Nickelback came around. I inserted my opinions about the bands you mentioned above. To me, real grunge was largely unproduced, was indie, was rebellious against what had been going on. When it became a national thing that record labels wanted a part of, and bands started trying to sound like grunge, it was over. Tung hit that right on the head in his post above.
This is turning a smidge defensive, so I'm going to play the part of moderator and tell everyone to cool it just a little. I wanted to defend 90s music too, but...it's OK. Live and let live. Your taste in music might be awesome, it might suck...but it's yours. That's OK.

[sunvalleylaw]

This is turning a smidge defensive, so I'm going to play the part of moderator and tell everyone to cool it just a little. I wanted to defend 90s music too, but...it's OK. Live and let live. Your taste in music might be awesome, it might suck...but it's yours. That's OK.

Eric, thanks. I did not notice how I typed that and it might have been misconstrued. I corrected my post to make it more clear. I was trying to agree with C-64 about some of the bands he mentioned that he did not care for. I hope I was not otherwise overly defensive while defending my opinion (I could get really going if I let myself. I was very rebellious against 60's and some 70's era music at the time. I have since moderated. Since taking up guitar, I am open to a lot of stuff I had passed over before.). If I was overly defensive, I agree; Live and let live. :pancake

[red]

And what was up with all the flannel?
The flannel is, I believe, the fault of the business part of the music industry. If you watch the "Hype!" documentary, the people actually playing the music in Seattle were at best amused with the flannel thing. Those who wore it, wore it simply because it was cold, and it was extremely cheap. Same thing with the Converse shoes. It was never a deliberate attempt to create any kind of fashion out of it.

But by the time something gets out there and the right people smell money, it's pretty much out of the original idea man's hands (just look at some of the uses Nobel's dynamite has today).

While I like flannel myself because of it's feel and thermal properties, I feel it's got nothing to do with the grunge music itself, and picking on it to make a point about grunge's worth is not unlike saying that an ugly wart on somebody's face invalidates his position in an argument.


There's a few modern rock acts I like. Tool, Alice in Chains... but that's about it.
I'm pretty sure that neither Tool nor any critic/CD-label-man ever claimed their music to be grunge.

[red]

I like flannel shirts and patterns. [...] But I pretty much hate grunge. [...] I don't really know what "grunge" really is but I pretty much despise: [...] I don't know if it's all "grunge", but to me grunge started the decline of music into what it is today and includes all of those craptastic bands.
I'm sorry to have to be the one who enforces Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) in this thread, but hating something that you only have a superficial idea about is what made concentration camps possible.

[red]

Sure, I like grunge.. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, &c. Good music, but lacking in guitar solos. It is, what it is..
Pearl Jam's music is actually full of solos. The SRV/Hendrix influenced Mike McCready takes care of that quite generously. Look up a live version of "Black" or "Even Flow" for minutes of extended soloing.

[red]

I remember someone saying "Why don't Kurt Cobain, Billy Corgan and Eddie Vedder just commit suicide already and get it over with." It was pretty funny at the time. I thought it was hilarious given the whiny, angry, angsty, complaining nature of their songs. Then Kurt went and did it. I definitely didn't think it was funny, but I can't say that I was surprised, either.
Well, Kurt Vonnegut (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut#Sourced) had this to say:

"I sometimes wondered what the use of any of the arts was. The best thing I could come up with was what I call the canary in the coal mine theory of the arts. This theory says that artists are useful to society because they are so sensitive. They are super-sensitive. They keel over like canaries in poison coal mines long before more robust types realize that there is any danger whatsoever."

So if the artist is actually sincere, and the public wise enough to make the difference, I'd say that's an extremely valuable social service right there. And rather than making jokes about them killing themselves and getting it over with, sometimes it just might be safer for everyone to recognize and address the problem, and maybe give a "thanks" in passing to those who pointed it out.

Just my 2 cents.

[Commodore 64]

I'm sorry to have to be the one who enforces Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) in this thread, but hating something that you only have a superficial idea about is what made concentration camps possible.
ROFLMAO. You can't be serious. You just can't. You can't possibly be trying to correlate comments about "grunge" on an internet forum with the Holocaust, can you? Really?

[sunvalleylaw]

One last thought, in turning the discussion back to liking grunge as a form of music. Let's consider who is still left. Pearl Jam, and I do like their last album. Has some good rocking stuff on it. Foo Fighters, even though they came into existence after early grunge had passed on to some thing else. They have had a good long career, and still can rock quite well. The new version of Alice in Chains, Cantrell still rocks, and they have a good new singer, though Staley's voice is missed. Soundgarden, Cornell and Thayl still rock, and Soundgarden had a reunion recently.

So keeping it simple, as a form of rock music, I still like it. There are good, big guitar sounds, even if the guitar is not used as much for soloing by some acts, good strong vocals, big drums, and it tends to rock.

Oh, and these guys are still around, doing the local, indie thing they started with:

zrUA7kOySZQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrUA7kOySZQ&feature=related

The Melvins and Green River are still out there playing too.
v_XVHkpBaxk&feature=PlayList&p=E609B44264C12FF3&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_XVHkpBaxk&feature=PlayList&p=E609B44264C12FF3&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=25

More or less loud, arguably sloppy, indie, blues based,garage rock, maybe with some punk attitude. No wonder I like it sometimes.

[red]

ROFLMAO. You can't be serious. You just can't. You can't possibly be trying to correlate comments about "grunge" on an internet forum with the Holocaust, can you? Really?
Well, the definition for Godwin's law at the link I posted did use the word "humorous", so a certain level of self-irony was involved, but you don't like grunge so probably not your cup of tea communication-style-wise :).
:beer:

[Rockermann]

I'm pretty sure that neither Tool nor any critic/CD-label-man ever claimed their music to be grunge.Nor did I. I went off the grunge topic a bit to include modern rock as a whole.

[Rockermann]

While I like flannel myself because of it's feel and thermal properties, I feel it's got nothing to do with the grunge music itself, and picking on it to make a point about grunge's worth is not unlike saying that an ugly wart on somebody's face invalidates his position in an argument.

Sorry, if I insulted. No harm was intended.

There's nothing wrong with flannel. I own some myself. But I sure as hell wouldn't put it on knowing I'm going on stage. :)

[red]

Nor did I. I went off the grunge topic a bit to include modern rock as a whole.
I see. Excuse my part in the misunderstanding then.

[red]

Sorry, if I insulted. No harm was intended.

There's nothing wrong with flannel. I own some myself. But I sure as hell wouldn't put it on knowing I'm going on stage. :)
I wasn't insulted at all, it's just that the thread seemed to go on a "flannel" tangent a tad more than it seemed relevant to the discussion, that's all. No harm done.

[sumitomo]

WOW! I never have really listened to any of this music,Yes in the 90's I lived in isolated in the mountains.The blues is my life and my life is the blues!@sunvalley Hey are you sure that band called Mudhoney isn't form San Francisco or Hollywood?LOL! Sumi:D

[sunvalleylaw]

Sumi, nope. Definitely formed in Seattle. Gotta love the red Hagstrom in the video above, rocking it on out in West Seattle!

[sumitomo]

I was just teasing,but with a name like Mudhoney,makes ya wonder! Sumi:D

[Retro Hound]

Certainly. In a word: METAL! :dude

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Am I to understand these are supposed to be examples of what's GOOD? Cause I had to laugh they are so bad. Almost a parody in themselves. But then, that's just my opinion.

[Eric]

Am I to understand these are supposed to be examples of what's GOOD? Cause I had to laugh they are so bad. Almost a parody in themselves.
To each his own. I'm sure your music sucks bunnies too. What styles do you like? There's probably something out there currently that would float your boat.

[Commodore 64]

When i watched the the Lamb of God video, about 35 seconds in I was thinking, "OK, OK, I get it already. You know how do do a pinch harmonic." Then the vocalist started screaming like a yeti with bronchitis, so I pressed stop. :P

[Retro Hound]

To each his own. I'm sure your music sucks bunnies too. What styles do you like? There's probably something out there currently that would float your boat.


I have no doubt that my music sucks bunnies. I'm something of a music omnivore, but I guess that style of metal isn't for me. Currently some music I listen to includes Cross Canadian Ragweed, Ashley Cleavland, and The Choir is releasing a new album June 28th. I discovered Bonamassa here at this forum, so that's new to me as well. I agree that there is always good music, just sometimes one has to search harder to find it.

As to the grunge thing, I loved it when it happened. Music had gotten stale, as it does every 10 years or so, and needed something to kick it up a notch. Grunge opened the doors to lots of alternative bands and some very interesting music.

[Eric]

When i watched the the Lamb of God video, about 35 seconds in I was thinking, "OK, OK, I get it already. You know how do do a pinch harmonic." Then the vocalist started screaming like a yeti with bronchitis, so I pressed stop. :P
Just out of curiosity, have you listened much to Avenged Sevenfold? They draw many comparisons to Iron Maiden, so I guess I wonder how they stack up as a modern-day version.

There are some sacred-cow vibes from Maiden lovers that would probably prevent any band from ever approaching them, but I'm curious from an objective subjective standpoint, if you will.

[Eric]

As to the grunge thing, I loved it when it happened. Music had gotten stale, as it does every 10 years or so, and needed something to kick it up a notch. Grunge opened the doors to lots of alternative bands and some very interesting music.
You know, that's a good point. When I hear the word "grunge", I tend to think of early-to-mid-90s bands, but many of them did not really fall into the grunge category.

I think you're right that the movement itself opened the door for a lot of new music, most of which was (inexplicably) called alternative. I never really understood that label, since alternative music was the most popular stuff out there. Anyway...

[bcdon]

Am I to understand these are supposed to be examples of what's GOOD? Cause I had to laugh they are so bad. Almost a parody in themselves. But then, that's just my opinion.
Before judging something a parody of itself, I'd expect you would have to have familiarity with the bands in the first place. I happen to like Machine Head and Lamb of God. It may not be your cup of tea but that's fine too. :dude

[bcdon]

When i watched the the Lamb of God video, about 35 seconds in I was thinking, "OK, OK, I get it already. You know how do do a pinch harmonic." Then the vocalist started screaming like a yeti with bronchitis, so I pressed stop. :P
HAHA. Their lead guitarist Mark Morton is really a gifted musician, he is certainly more than pinch harmonics.. I picked that song because, well, because I dig that style. As for the screaming, I dig that too.

The reason I posted two videos is to show that there are plenty of great bands out there playing great music. It may not be your thing, but that is OK. One thing for sure, you aren't going to find any good music on your local b.s. radio station. :dude

[FrankenFretter]

This topic has become heated somewhat, and seems to have departed from the friendly spirit of our beloved forum at times. Let's try to respect each other, and each other's tastes in music (and clothing?). We're all here because we love music, whether it's the kind of music our neighbors love or not shouldn't matter.

As Hurley might say...Chill dudes!

[bcdon]

As Hurley might say...Chill dudes!
Oh, I certainly didn't mean to come off like that. Sorry if that is how things sounded. Music is all a matter of taste, and if you like something -- or not -- it really doesn't matter what other people think. For the record, my wife doesn't think much of my music taste either. Women! :dude

[Commodore 64]

This is simply a lively discussion. I think people often read text in a harsher manner than it was intended when written.

I, for one, often post in hyperbole because that's the point of the forum...to stimulate discussion. I actually don't mind Green Day, for example. They are what they are.

[Eric]

I think I have to side with C64 here. The only one who would be pissed off is bcdon, and he seems to be mature about the whole thing.

So back to that whole grunge thing...

[bcdon]

So back to that whole grunge thing...
Well I'm glad our buddy FrankenFretter is looking out for the civility of this forum. There are so many places on the internet(s) that are just plain rude. Looking back over my responses I can certainly see how they could be taken the wrong way. No worries. Now, if only you guys would get some decent taste in music things would be peachy keen. :dance

[deeaa]

Grunge - what did it do to guitar players all over the world? I think it took the shredder mentality away, to some degree at least. Perhaps some think that's a good thing.

The Grunge movement left me completely cold. Musically speaking, it was dead boring to me. So I just stayed away and worked on my good old blues licks and jazz progressions.

How about you?

I liked and still like most grunge a lot.

As you said, it made music more everyman; there was a feeling that you didn't need a big hair and/or extreme guitar skills or costumes to be able to make powerful music...and it was great. It was OK to even make mistakes or sing a little off or scream a little too much; all that mattered was the conveyed emotion once again, not perfect sounds and superb playing.

I guess my music has ever since been mostly like grunge; there's always variation from lighter parts to harder parts, hard/metal type guitar stuff but quite melodic songs, etc. etc.

One thing that grunge brought back was a proper jam mentality, songs like Alice In Chain's did that worked over just one riff that was jammed over and over, or like Hunger Strike by Temple of Dog...you know. Or, some evolved the jamming mentality further into intricate grooves like Soundgarden did, or their descendants like modern Tool...definitely grunge.

Without grunge, there would not be bands I love today; Danko Jones, Billy Talent, Tool, System of Down, lots of newer bands are so clearly grunge descendants.

Besides, any music that features driven guitars is worth a listen. I can't stand them cookie monster vocals as someone said about Lamb of God, yeah, but that's got nuthing to do with grunge. Grunge vox is Vedder, Cornell, Staley, Cobain et al. in the order that most spells grunge to me.

[guitarmadman85]

I liked and still like most grunge a lot.


Without grunge, there would not be bands I love today; Danko Jones, Billy Talent, Tool, System of Down, lots of newer bands are so clearly grunge descendants.



When I think about what inspired Tool, grunge is not the first thing to come to mind. I mean, opiate came out in 1992... When I think of their jamming influence, I think more of pink floyd or maybe even zepplin.

I really think of the "nu metal" bands as people trying to recreate rage against the machine. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion.

As for grunge, I used to listen to it, not so much any more. There is good grunge, and there is bad grunge. The true indicator for me is the stuff that stands the test of time. Stuff like "man in the box" or "spoonman"

[deeaa]

Well, wasnt 1992 the very top year for grunge...even up here I made my first grunge release that year...I always firmly put tool under grunge.

[Jimi75]

Well I think Pearl Jam's Ten album was a milestone. It culminated great songwriting, extraordinary vocals, cool guitarplaying and a new kind of lyrics and lifestyle. Most people of my generatin could identify with it. The Seattle scene was already cooking before that album and my friends and I did import demo cassetes of several different bands. I liked also the other music around at that time, but a lot of that late 80s early 90s stuff was faky, unreal, unmusical to behonest. Grunge songs you could easily play at the campfire and for most of my guitar playing friends playing rhythm and full chords instead of power chords was totally new. To answer your question - I liked and I still like Grunge!

[Kazz]

Someone above said...that all this grunge started as indie/alternative music in the Pacific (read: cold, wet and soggy over half the year) North West. By the time it was discovered by the rest of the country it was really no longer alternative but mainstream and that was what the originals were campaigning against to begin with. It turned into a mockery of itself. Grunge came in and killed what was left of truly decent music in my opinion. Looking back some of the music that came out of Seattle was great and still holds up. Alot of tragedy there tho.

[oldguy]

Some genres are not executed technically perfect........nor should they be.
They are about the message, be it political, depressing, wishful, etc.
Sometimes we need a mirror held before us to make us aware of the direction we're going, whether it be good or bad.
I wasn't a fan of grunge per se, although I do love me some good flannel.
I also rather liked this.

Nd5-ZTyaMMs

[omegadot]

There is a lot of music I like just because it almost resets my ears. I like Grunge when I just want my music to be a little muddier and less clear. My musical moods change quickly and for no apparent reason so I'd never cut out an entire genre.

I still say some bands like Meat Puppets, Mud Honey, Pearl Jam, Nirvana (sorry if you gagged reading that), Sonic Youth, Sound Garden, and many others have added to my appreciation of music without taking anything away.

[Geraint Jones]

Some genres are not executed technically perfect........nor should they be.
They are about the message, be it political, depressing, wishful, etc.
Sometimes we need a mirror held before us to make us aware of the direction we're going, whether it be good or bad.
I wasn't a fan of grunge per se, although I do love me some good flannel.
I also rather liked this.

Nd5-ZTyaMMs

4 pages before Old Guy mentions Neil Young the Godfather of grunge .

[Tig]

There is a lot of music I like just because it almost resets my ears. I like Grunge when I just want my music to be a little muddier and less clear. My musical moods change quickly and for no apparent reason so I'd never cut out an entire genre.

I still say some bands like Meat Puppets, Mud Honey, Pearl Jam, Nirvana (sorry if you gagged reading that), Sonic Youth, Sound Garden, and many others have added to my appreciation of music without taking anything away.

I feel about the same.

Also, I remember seeing the Meat Puppets a few times when I was in Tulsa, around late '82 or early '83. This was in their hardcore days. One time they were so trashed, it took several bars before they all knew what song it was. The drummer was speeding out of his mind and then threw up. Ah, those were the days! :puke:

[omegadot]

I feel about the same.

Also, I remember seeing the Meat Puppets a few times when I was in Tulsa, around late '82 or early '83. This was in their hardcore days. One time they were so trashed, it took several bars before they all knew what song it was. The drummer was speeding out of his mind and then threw up. Ah, those were the days! :puke:

Reminds me of the time I saw Suicide Machines and the singer tried to end the set using the song they opened with. Luckily the drummer knew what was up.

[FretOvaIt]

Nu Metal gets a unfair rap I think. I like Korn, especially their early stuff! I'd like to see Korn live. Apparently they are still doing concerts - found out about it while killing time on facebook. there's a sony contest where you can win tickets, it was easy enough to register for so i signed up and am really hoping to snag some tickets

its going down in NY this November and if you don't live nearby, you can win free airfare or something. anyways heres the link if ure interested: http://www.facebook.com/sonyentertainment