Clean amp advice

[Monkus]

So guys, I'm now responsible for a group in my church that has guitars, violins, sax, trumpet and a bunch of acoustics. Since having arranged a few traditional hymns into contemporary for services, I'm being asked to do a lot of accompaniment for soloists.

I don't envisage using a lot of dirty for this, maybe some light od, (thanks btw to duhvoodooman for my MKII Golden Monkey), so I need an amp with good, no great cleans. I was using a Spider III 2X12, (crappy) so switched to a Fender 112. It works, but not so happy with the cleans. I actually prefer my Fender frontman 15B.

Been looking at the Jet City JCA2112RC combo as well but read that there isn't enough headroom for what I need.

I'm using the M9 with the ZYS MKII for effects. After weeks of research I narrowed it down to the Roland Cube 60 and the Vox Valvetronix VT50. I read about some volume issues with the Vox though.

It'll be running into the new pa so the amp will just be stageside, but I intend for it to double up for gigs. Advice?, recommendations?

[markb]

The Cube 60 has a good range of clean sounds available.
First up, there's the dedicated JC channel which is absolutely lovely. Feed it a strat and dial in some reverb and there's your Sultans tone right there. Give it some nice PAFs and it purrs along happily.
Switching to the other side you have a Fender blackface model which is very convincing and takes dirt pedals nicely. The Vox model can be kept clean for a cool Beatles type tone, and the Tweed likewise for a punchier, honky clean that cuts through (think old Steve Cropper tones). Either of these models can be run hotter and will clean up from the guitar for us guitar-cable-amp fans. I've played whole nights on the Vox or Tweed just using the guitar volume on my tele.
The surprise in cleans is the Metal model based on a Peavey 5150. Keep the gain all the way down and you get a warm, middly (but not honky like the tweed), slightly edgy clean. Take the gain up and you get thick, juicy lead tones.
All these are delivered with a nice presence and punch from the ported cabinet. No problems hanging with the band at all. Last time out mine held its own against a Peavey Classic 50 and an "evil Twin". Don't worry about the small cabinet. I never get the bass knob on mine above 4.

[otaypanky]

Price range?

[Eric]

I was going to say that a Cube 60 seems like it would be great for such an application, particularly since you're running into (lining out to?) FOH.

My only other experience has been with a Kustom SS amp that's pretty decent for cleans and headroom if you can't find a Cube 60.

[hubberjub]

Roland JC-anything (55,60,90,120). All they do is clean.

[MAXIFUNK]

Price Range matters

My
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Hot-Rod-DeVille-410?sku=480508
Cleans are awesome but it is a loud very loud amp I play it at no more than level 2 at home.

If I had the bucks this is the Fender Amp I would have bought
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Vintage-Reissue-65-Twin-Reverb-Guitar-Amp?sku=480505

Also check these out the Vox Family!

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Vox-Custom-AC15C1-15W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=423619
or
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Vox-Custom-AC30C2-30W-2x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=423618


I have played both and these amps just sing on the clean channel.
So, it depends on your money and ear.

[Monkus]

sorry, should have put this in before. Budget is up to 1.5K. However, I would prefer it not being a backbreaker. I'll have to lug the amp, guits and effects at least twice a week for practise and then on Sunday. I played some Vox amps in Sam Ash in Miami over the weekend and boy, it took all my willpower to walk away. I shortlisted the VT50 because of size, so too the Cube 60. Maybe the Cube or Vox for church and The Jet City for gigs? :cool:

Was thinking of getting a TC helicon Harmony GX as well though :rockya

[deeaa]

I don't much use cleans myself, but I've been very impressed with the Vox amps of late. Very versatile, and since I swapped the speaker in my VT30 it sounds frigging awesome now for a single 10" combo.

If I myself would really really want _beautiful_ cleans, it should be a tube amp for sure, and most any Fender amp should do a nice round chimey clean...I used to have an old Ampeg back in the day and maybe the memories are golden but I don't think I've ever heard an amp with better cleans than that VT-22 had.

But, for a place like a church&real life volume etc. requirements, I can't imagine you could go wrong with a Vox VT with their master volume system, any sound at any volume level plus line out to d/i...I've been eyeing a bigger one myself for our 2nd guitarist, he's using a Line 6 Spider III right now and (sorry Spider owners don't take it personally) even my VT30 is lightyears ahead when it comes to sounding good; when we recorded the last demo we tried with the spider but it's just such c*ap (IMO of course) for any real rock sounds; they do OK d/i and for ultra-metal buzzaw sounds, but the VT instantly worked infinitely better for recording.

So, anyway, my gut feeling now is that if I had to have one practical and sensibly-priced amp to do everything (and it couldn't be a full JVM stack :-) I would no longer hunt for a Tech-21 TM120 but most likely a Vox VT50 or 100.

[Monkus]

thanks guys, seems like its really between the Cube 60 and VT50 :help

@Maxi: I would really love those but carrying those around would get hard pretty fast...

@hubberjub: Same for the JC-120, even though its really nice and takes stompboxes very well...

@deeaa: I have a Line 6 Spider III 150, man does it suck !

[Duffy]

With your budget I would get something really nice and not too heavy.

You owe it to yourself to check out a Fender SuperSonic if you possibly can. It is a tube amp with a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker. It sounds incredible.

It is within your price range. At the top.

It has two voices: Vibrolux - super clean, and Bassman; and two channels, normal and burn. It has a tube reverb that works on the Bassman voice as well. The Bassman does not have a reverb.

This is an incredible amp. Super great Fender cleans and an overdrive channel that is one of the best I've played, ever. I mean smooth overdrive that sounds really full and deep; not thrashy and distorted or brittle and jagged.

It is in the Fender Pro Series. The Vox "chromies" are in another league. But look at the price difference and you get a five year warrantee with the Fender amp and it has pure tube tone, not digital.

As far as digital goes, Roland has a new Cube 80 out that is supposed to be nice, with a twelve inch speaker.

Some people here, like Spud, have had great opinions of the Bugera V22, 22 watt tube amp with two channels: clean and overdrive. These are only 350 dollars new.

If I had the budget right now that you do, I'd definitely consider the SuperSonic very seriously, comparing it to the other options. You know that you will be getting a great amp with a strong warranty.

My new Vox AC15c1 with the Celestion greenback is a great amp but it doesn't have the clean headroom of something like the SuperSonic or probably even the Bugera V22 on the clean channel. Certainly not the clean of the Roland Cube 80, solid state modelling amp.

Also there is a new Fender SuperSonic 22 watt version out that may be a decent value, I think MF sells it, no affln. This, however, is not like a real SuperSonic and does not have a Vintage 30 speaker.

The big SuperSonic sounds great at low or high volume and does not have the hair trigger volume knob of the Hot Rod Deluxe and some other Fender tube amps. The volume goes up gradually and controllably from low volume to higher volumes very incrementally, no quantum leaps from zero to one.

Hope this helps. With your budget I would consider some high quality options like the SuperSonic if you have not tried it. I guarantee it will put a smile on your face. Plus I would look for durability because probably a lot of different people are going to be using the amp for solo's, and you know how rough that can be on equipment. Plus it is a straight forward amp with simple knobs on the front, unlike the more complicated modelling amps that could confuse some uninitiated users. Just a practical point. Sounds like this new amp is going to get a lot of use as well, a working amp.

Check it out and see what you think. It is a great combo amp.

[hubberjub]

If you're willing to spend that much, you could look for a used Fuchs Clean Machine. It's all about clean headroom. I just assumed you were looking for a cheap fix. If you've got a good overdrive pedal it's all the amp you'll ever need.

[hubberjub]

P.S. If it's too heavy, get a roadie. It's worth it.

[Monkus]

Church? ... Roadie? Same sentence? :what

Thanks for all the replies...

I was thinking if I throw enough $$$ at it I'll end up with something pretty decent. It seems as though my parameters are too narrow. I need a small, not too heavy, great amp for cleans. Preferably a combo. Preferably an fx loop. I use stompboxes. Preferably a line out to the PA. Might have to do multiple churches in one morning. At least twice weekly practices. I've been hauling gear as long as I could remember.

Selfish point here: I'm going to be using this amp. I'll carry along another small amp like the Fender 15B for others to use and acoustics can go straight to the PA. I already carry a Roland KC550 with a keyboard for a keyboardist to use. Good thing that amp has casters.

There isn't enough space at the church to store all this stuff, which would really be ideal. Two respected fretters have endorsed the Cube 60 and the Vox VT50 though,which seems to be what i'm looking for. Maybe I'll just get one of those and put the change into a GAS account. :thumbsup

The Fuchs seems heavenly and while I would love to have it, it doesnt seem to fit the jigsaw puzzle. Thanks though...

[otaypanky]

Drri

[Monkus]

After a discussion with a friend of mine who is kinda in the same position his sagely advice was:

"Get the Cube-60 for church, the Vox VT50 is for tweakers like us and you don't want a 16 y.o farting round with the settings during a service. The Cube is a no brainer, so it would encourage the young 'uns. Then you could take your time and decide which head you're going to drive the 4X12 cab you're gonna buy with the savings."

Played it a bit at the shop, seems very adequate for what I want.

So I got the Cube-60, will be using it in practice tonight, will let you know how that goes.

[markb]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. Two Cube 60s cost and weigh less than a JC120 and sound the same but with better distortions :)

Enjoy the Cube, it's quite a surprising amp.

[Katastrophe]

Fender '65 Vintage Reissue Twin Reverb?

It's clean. Classic Fender tone. Tons of headroom.

[Spudman]

Glad you finally got something. I'm really interested in your feedback on the Cube60 after you have used it for a while. I gigged with another player that had the Cube30 and I thought it sounded very good. The 60 might be the same thing but with more swat?


PS. If you still have some $ left over you might still want to go check out the Bugera V22 for a cheap self indulgence. It's really a nicely voiced amph.

[kiteman]

After a discussion with a friend of mine who is kinda in the same position his sagely advice was:

"Get the Cube-60 for church, the Vox VT50 is for tweakers like us and you don't want a 16 y.o farting round with the settings during a service. The Cube is a no brainer, so it would encourage the young 'uns. Then you could take your time and decide which head you're going to drive the 4X12 cab you're gonna buy with the savings."

Played it a bit at the shop, seems very adequate for what I want.

So I got the Cube-60, will be using it in practice tonight, will let you know how that goes.

I've heard tons of good stuff about the Cube 60 but wasn't they discontinued? Replaced by the Cube 80?

Anyway congrats on a fine amp. :)

[Monkus]

Thanks for all the replies guys! :applause

@Duffy: Man ! now I'm gassing for a real fender classic like that one.

@Kiteman: I had a hard time finding the Cube-60 online. Some sites would list it but when I emailed said they were out of stock. I got the one here locally at about the price I'd pay with shipping and duties so I jumped on it. Last one....in the country lol. Markups here average around 150%. Some reviews think that the 60 is the best of the bunch so that's why I didn't consider the 80.

Hooked up the Cube 60 last night at church practice. Using a PRS Se with buckers. Into the "Black Panel" modeled after a Fender Twin Reverb. Dialed in a little reverb to taste and a smidgen of gain. EQ at 12. It sounded (to my ear) just like the original. Strong bass response, bright highs. Plenty of volume.

Forgot to hook up the M9 so I did when I remembered. Switched to the JC Clean channel and she took the stompbox nicely. Took off the reverb and gain on the amp, dialed in a little '63 spring reverb, a little chorus and a little analog mod. Didn't need to touch the volume knob, it was around 2 or so. Warm and clean, just fine. When doing fingerstyle, response was also very good.

First impressions: Just what I needed, great cleans, small and powerful. Made like a brick, and not too heavy but has some heft to it. Solid. Used the Black Panel amp sim, and that is arguably one of the better ones I've heard. The Clean channel is sweet. Amp modeling really has come a long way.

I wish I had more time to really get to know her before practice but if this is how she shows up, imagine when she settles in ?!?!?

[kiteman]

You did good Monkus, glad you found it.:)

[markb]

Yep, the Cube 60 is the modeller that plays like a guitar amp. It's why I bought one. One box with a good but not ott range of models and musical sounding effects.

[Eric]

Yep, the Cube 60 is the modeller that plays like a guitar amp. It's why I bought one. One box with a good but not ott range of models and musical sounding effects.
Question here: I recall you saying a couple of times that the Tech 21 TM60 is not a modeller because it uses clipping, EQ, and compression to achieve its ends. After using the TM60 for awhile, I think I understand what you mean -- it really is its own amp, not a facsimile of other amps. (or maybe I missed your point entirely...)

What does something like the Cube 60 use to get its sound? It's the COSM technology, right? Is that all digital like those Line 6 amps?

[markb]

Question here: I recall you saying a couple of times that the Tech 21 TM60 is not a modeller because it uses clipping, EQ, and compression to achieve its ends. After using the TM60 for awhile, I think I understand what you mean -- it really is its own amp, not a facsimile of other amps. (or maybe I missed your point entirely...)

What does something like the Cube 60 use to get its sound? It's the COSM technology, right? Is that all digital like those Line 6 amps?

It's the same COSM modelling that Roland use in the Boss GT and ME fx boxes. All digital.

There were several lines of earlier analogue Cubes, I had one back in the 80s for practice and small gigs. It was a 40w 1x10" with built in chorus and reverb. You could chain them up rather like you can with the TM60, in fact you could send just the fx output to another one. I did this once using a friend's unit. It sounded just like a JC. Good cleans with a dodgy built in distortion supposedly based on the DS-1.

It's been a long time but I'd say the current digital Cubes sound a lot better.

The little orange Bass Cube was well liked as a good sounding portable unit for studio and small gigs. I knew quite a few bass players who used them a lot.
There were keyboard models too.
The Blues Cubes are highly regarded as good sounding ss amps.

You certainly didn't miss my point re the TM60. It's its own thing that resembles some classic amps sonically.

[Heywood Jablomie]

I A/B-ed the Cube 30's Black Panel model next to a Fender Blues Jr. at the store, and it was very close. That was the final test that convinced me to buy the Cube. Cool amps, indeed!

[FrankenFretter]

I love my Cube 60 (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=15564), and yes they have been discontinued.

The cleans on the JC Clean and the Black Panel are awesome. It's very portable and sounds fantastic. It's hard to find a better bang for your buck amph. Glad you were able to find one!

[tunghaichuan]

I wish Roland would make a stereo version of the Cube a la the JC-120, except that it wouldn't be a cube any more.

[markb]

I wish Roland would make a stereo version of the Cube a la the JC-120, except that it wouldn't be a cube any more.

The Roland Oblong, perhaps :)

[poodlesrule]

I love my Cube 60 (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=15564), and yes they have been discontinued.




What is now in its place in the product line (did not see anything)?

I am still in love with my Cube 30x -newbies should not be allowed that... spoils them rotten!
OTOH, I introduced the term "tube amp" to spouse. I got a vague ""hmm" for a response, I would say it does not look good!

[Eric]

I believe it's the Cube 80x (http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=999). It's roughly the same weight if memory serves, just a bit more pricey 'cause it's new.

[gregsguitars]

Fender wrote the book on the clean amp tone, so any reasonable priced Fender amp will do the trick, don't complicate and easy solution.

[Monkus]

I've had the Cube 60 for about a month so I thought I'd share the experience so far. I found the last one on the island so rushed over to get it.

Music stores here are not like in the US. I was testing the amp but the sales chick was trying to cycle through the models as fast as she could. I told her to stop. Luckily, I know the owner so she left me alone.

Started playing a bit of Superstition on the Black Panel setting. Everyone looked at me. I'm sure it was the amp tone and not my yanking on the slightly out of tune Fender clone I was using. Upped the gain a bit and started a bit of Sweet Home Alabama. The listeners came closer. Decided to take the amp then cause, well, I was getting stares. After leaving the store I realized I didn't even check the clean settings. The Black Panel sold me. I also heard that they sold a Cube 15 and a 30 right after. Should have asked for commission discounts.

Easy to use and plenty loud, I've only used the Clean and the Black Panel settings, it easily is becoming my workingman's amp. I can take the amp without the M9 and easily dial in a tone I like.

Played a jam session in a bar with some friends and even though there were other amps there, everyone wanted to play through the Cube-60. Got irrationally jealous.

Shrugged it off and played to my hearts content. Cut through just fine. Played the rhythm for 'Two Princes' by Spin Doctors and someone told me it was the first time they actually heard what the guitar was playing. Its nice when you can finally concentrate on well, just playing.

Ran both the PRS and my acoustic through it for our church's anniversary evening of music. Played acoustic guitar with a pianist for 'You've got a friend' and did the James Taylor fingerstyle. JC Clean, shimmery highs and even bass response. Ran the acoustic direct with a little gain and reverb to thicken it up a bit. Actually had to lower the volume on the guitar cause I thought the amp was too loud, volume knob on 4. Great response to picking, smiles all around, thats the point of playing isnt it?

PRS into M9, into Black Panel, gain at 3, presence at 5, eq at 12, Amazing Grace, slow southern blues. Some people thought it was recorded.

I've only scratched the surface, I haven't even explored the dyna amp or any of the other amp models yet.

This amp is exactly what I wanted. Its small, easy to carry, plenty loud and has some killer modelling. Some 'aficionados' turned their noses but came to inquire after they heard it. Others swear by their 4x12 Marshall stacks and 800 head. Fine. I can plug this baby into your 4x12 and sound just as good. It really is a cool amp and has rolled around in my van tray already. No damage. Its sturdily built. I like it...a lot.

[markb]

A local guy borrowed my Cube 60 at our jam night. He plugged his late 60s LP Custom into it, we dialled up a Marshall model and even I was looking around for the stacks. Big tone.

I like to plug my tele into the Vox model, turn the gain up just past halfway and play the whole night riding the guitar volume. I might switch over to the JC if something needs a really clean sound.

[Eric]

You guys are making me check craigslist and ebay with your high praise of the cube 60! I really think I should just learn my TM60 and be happy, but it's a challenge to sit and be content...

Glad to hear it's working well for you, Monkus.