Two...two....two Tele's in one!

[duhvoodooman]

Well, not simultaneously, but the intrinsic ease of modifying the controls and pickup wiring on a Tele, combined with the fact that the CV 50's comes pre-routed to accept larger pickups, has lead me to this next idea:

GFS sells a Tele pickguard that's cut & drilled to accept their Firebird-style mini-humbuckers:


http://store.guitarfetish.com/tepitoshcucu.html

So for $56--$20 for the tortoise shell p/g and $36 for their Fat Alnico V mini-bucker (http://store.guitarfetish.com/mipafatalvma.html), I figure I can easily convert my CV 50's Tele to a second configuration and release my "inner Keef". Mockup courtesy of the Kisekae Virtual Tele design page (http://www.usacustomguitars.com/usacg/kisekae/usacgtele650/base.asp):

http://www.thefret.net/imagehosting/744c30dca3992fe.gif

The wiring is so readily accessible and the pickguard is so easy to remove, it should be very easy to switch back and forth between the stock CV 50's configuration and this one. I just need to wire the neck pickup in with some quick-connect plugs of some sort (anybody got a good link?), and install a couple of "halfway" control pots. This latter idea was a great suggestion from Bloozcat--I'll make a couple of 375K control pots by soldering a 1.5M resistor across the 1 and 2 lugs of a 500K pot. That will put the pot spans right in between the 250K commonly used for single coils and the 500K value usually employed for humbuckers.

Ordering the parts today.... :D

[markb]

I've got one of those pickups here but I've never managed to put it in a guitar.

[Katastrophe]

That's a killer idea, DVM!

Kinda changes Classic Vibe to ConVertible, don't it!


Sounds also like a great idea for a prepackaged kit. With a quick change system for the bridge pup to a single coil size 'bucker, Twang to Rock in minutes!

[bigoldron]

Looks way cool, DVM! Let us know how she sounds. Clips would be nice!

[Kazz]

That's a killer idea, DVM!

Kinda changes Classic Vibe to ConVertible, don't it!


Sounds also like a great idea for a prepackaged kit. With a quick change system for the bridge pup to a single coil size 'bucker, Twang to Rock in minutes!


Not quite that simple Kat, since the bridge pup is not connected to the pick guard on a Tele but mounts through the bridge itself. Unless you get a hardtail strat bridge then you can body mount the bridge pup. DVM's idea of a quick connect harness is cool especially with that mini bucker set up split the coils too so you get neck bucker, neck single and standard tele bridge. Lots of tonal options there.

[sunvalleylaw]

Wow, more GAS. See, that is what I wanted in a tele with the humbucker in the neck, and the quick connect harness idea is killer!

[duhvoodooman]

I think I have something that may fill the bill for a pickup wiring quick connector system. I was playing around with various small connectors for PC innards, and came up with what you see in the photos below. The female connector is easy--any of a number of PC connectors will work; I used a 4-wire CD drive output connector for that. The trick is to have male connectors that will be small enough to run through the pickup wire channels in the guitar body. For that purpose, I cut up a male cooling fan connector, so that I could get just the wires and pins soldered to their ends. I covered the excess part of the pin with heatshrink, and--voila!--male plugs that are practically no bigger than the wire diameter. Insert them in the female plug and you have a nice, snug connection. So these just need to be spliced into the pickup/switch wiring and I should be good to go.

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/Q_connect_1.jpg http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/Q_connect_2.jpg

[vroomery]

This is seriously cool. I have a tele and would love to give something like this a try.

[Katastrophe]

Not quite that simple Kat, since the bridge pup is not connected to the pick guard on a Tele but mounts through the bridge itself. Unless you get a hardtail strat bridge then you can body mount the bridge pup.


Gotcha, Kazz. I was kinda brainstorming, which turned into a brain fart. Gotta hate it when that happens.

DVM's idea is just too cool!

[duhvoodooman]

DVM's idea of a quick connect harness is cool especially with that mini bucker set up split the coils too so you get neck bucker, neck single and standard tele bridge. Lots of tonal options there.
Yup, I'm doing that as a part of this mod, too. Have an A500K push-pull pot coming along with the pickguard and mini-bucker. The coil-cut can be accomplished with a single extra connection through my "quick-connect" setup. Just solder a length of wire with one of the little male connectors to the two wires of a 4-conductor 'bucker that are pre-soldered & taped. The plug side of the quick connect is then wired to one of the middle lugs of the push-pull. You just connect the "pull" lug above it to ground, as shown in this humbucker coil-tap diagram on my web site:

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/musical/humbucker_mods/coil-cut_switch_screw.gif

All you're really doing is putting a quick-connect in between the red-white wire solder joint and the push-pull switch. When you pull up on the pot knob, one coil is shorted to ground. The other continues to work, since you're just moving the ground connection point of that coil from one spot to another.

EDIT 7/12/10:

As mentioned two posts down from this one, the above method of shorting one of the two humbucker coils to ground was NOT useful in this case, due to the 4-way switch wiring to give the bridge and neck pickups in series at the fourth switch position. This wiring would cause the bridge pickup to be shorted to ground along with the one humbucker coil. Instead, the following alternative coil-cutting method was used, which shorts the other humbucker coil back on itself. The remaining coil stays "hot", passing its signal and the series bridge signal on to the volume pot. Diagram:

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/musical/humbucker_mods/coil-cut_switch_stud.gif

[piebaldpython]

So........uh....lol........how soon before you begin accepting our gits to do mods on them? :poke I mean, you already are noted for your pedal mods/building....so it seems to me (:thwap ) that modding gits is your next logical step. Just kidding......sort of.

By the way Fretters, I bought DVM's Xaviere-820. He had already upgraded the pups to Alnico IIIs, changed the pots to 250s, and put in a push/pull to get the pups in series as well as the standard parallel. A sweet sounding Tele for sure with a great variety of sounds. She's a heavy sucker but for a wide-shouldered LOAD like me, it's no problemo.

[duhvoodooman]

Here's the scheme I will be using to wire up this mod for my CV '50s Tele. The new neck humbucker with be connected through a 4-wire "quick-connect", working as shown in the photo posted above. The four pickup wiring connections will be:
humbucker "hot" signal (to 4-way switch)
humbucker ground (to 4-way switch)
humbucker shield (to ground/back of vol pot)
humbucker soldered pair (to push-pull switch on tone pot)
Wiring diagram:


http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/neck_bucker_+_4-way_switch + 50s_tone_pot.gif

You may notice that the push-pull switch connects the soldered wire pair of the humbucker (i.e. where the two coils are connected in series) to the "hot" signal coming out of the 4-way switch into the volume pot. When the push-pull is engaged, this will cause one of the coils of the humbucker to be shorted back on itself, muting it, while the other coil continues to pass signal.

Originally, I planned to connect the soldered pair to ground through the push-pull. But because of the bridge-neck-in-series wiring through the 4-way switch, this has the unintended effect of turning on the neck pickup whenever the switch is pulled up, irrespective of where the 4-way is set. It also kills the bridge-neck-in-series setting when active, since the bridge signal gets shunted to ground along with the one humbucker coil, so it ends up as a redundant neck coil-cut setting.

I'm also going to switch the tone pot input connection from the volume pot input lug to the output (middle lug), a.k.a. "Gibson '50s style" tone pot wiring. This method markedly reduces treble loss when the volume control is rolled off. Good explanation of how that works HERE (http://www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/Gibson50s.html).

The new pickguard, mini-bucker and push-pull pot are being delivered today, so I may dive into this tonight....

[sunvalleylaw]

I love your mad scientist schemes! Keep us posted!

[duhvoodooman]

I love your mad scientist schemes!
I resemble that remark!! ;)

[Monkus]

Way to go DVM, cool idea !!!

[duhvoodooman]

Performed this modification last night. Unfortunately, I finished up late when everybody else was in bed, so the only testing I could do was just to confirm functionality through the headphones on my Micro Cube. Everything works as it should, but now I'm dying to hear what it really sounds like. That will have to wait until after work today. :mad

I was able to confirm that between the 4-way pickup switch and the coil-cut switch on the mini-bucker, the guitar has 7 distinct tones now. Checked out all the setting pickup resistances at the jack (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=8311), and all the combos are working as they should. Should be a lot of fun to play around with and see what sounds best. And will definitely post a photo or two tonight.....

[sumitomo]

:digit I'm :hungry for these new tones,but I'll :zzz till you post em :thumbsup :rockya Sumi:D

[duhvoodooman]

Oh, man--sounds great! The neck mini-bucker rings like a bell.

Here are a couple of pics. Only problem is that the stock pickguard was mounted with only 5 screws and the new GFS p/g takes 8, so I have 3 empty holes for the moment. But I really like the look of the tortoise shell on the vintage blonde body. And the mini-humbucker looks pretty cool in there:

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/cv50s_tele_modded_full.jpg http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/cv50s_tele_modded_body.jpg

[t_ross33]

Nice :dance can't wait to hear some clips... I see more mods to my Modified Vintage Modified Tele in the future :french

Hmmm... gonna have to give 'er a name, Maude would seem appropriate, yet somehow... NOT :thwap

Welcome to the Tort PG club!

[sunvalleylaw]

Ditto! That looks great! I love the tort PG too!

[Tig]

That turned out great! If it sounds half as good as it looks, you did quite well, even for a mad scientist.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5xHhfW50Z_s/SV2sN05H8GI/AAAAAAAABMY/jmWBcYLQsWQ/s400/mad+scientist.jpg

[M29]

:drool

[duhvoodooman]

Thanks for the new avatar, Tig! :thumbsup

[Tig]

Thanks for the new avatar, Tig! :thumbsup

Yer welcome
(courtesy of Google)

These pesky CV Tele's are getting in the way of my wife's guitar embargo!

[andyguitar85]

Good work. Looks sweet! :thumbsup

[duhvoodooman]

If anyone's interested, I posted a clip recorded using the new neck mini-'bucker HERE (http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=15843).

[sunvalleylaw]

I listened and think it sounds great! Nice neck sound. This guitar and mod is on my "one of these days" list. Thanks for sharing your idea and experience/clips.

[duhvoodooman]

Day-um!!! Those b*stards at Seymour Duncan stole my idea! ;)

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Seymour_Duncan_Introduces_Liberator_Solderless_Pic kup_Change_System.aspx

[sunvalleylaw]

Cool! When I finish paying off my CV Tele, I was thinking I might do your mod. This looks like it makes it that much easier. The part you used looks smaller though, and I bet is cheaper.

[sunvalleylaw]

Vood, having looked at this, your thoughts please on getting their deal vs. going and getting the parts your way?

[Brian Krashpad]

Cool!

I'm lazy though. Would never have the patience for all that wiring work. I did it the simple way.

One Tele with 2 singles and '50's wiring:

http://static.flickr.com/33/64187960_82afefb188.jpg

One Tele with full size splittable neckbucker and 5-way switching:

http://static.flickr.com/25/64208937_f659426fdf.jpg

And one Tele with a Seymour Duncan mini in the neck and 3-way switching:

http://static.flickr.com/43/90598563_113a47e647.jpg

Lot less work this way.

;)

[duhvoodooman]

It's been over two years since I posted this, and I have been running this CV '50s Tele with the neck mini-humbucker all that time. But I think it's time to check out something new, namely ONE OF THESE (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/medium-output/prails_shpr1/). I have my eye on an eBay auction now that will save me a few $$ if I win it. These P-Rails pickups will function in 3 separate modes--as a rail-style single coil, as a P90, and as a hybrid bumbucker with the two connected in series. Because you want to be able to split & use either coil of the P-Rails, the usual 2-position/on-on push-pull pot will not work for this purpose--it requires a 3-position on-off-on switch to give all three pickup configurations. I have never seen a 3-position push-pull pot, so I'm looking at using an on-off-on SPDT mini-toggle mounted through the pickguard. They're small, so I'm sure I can find a place to mount it where it will be out of the way. I'll also need to get a Tele pickguard that's cut for a full-size humbucker in the neck position, but that's NOT A PROBLEM (http://store.guitarfetish.com/Telecaster-Tortoise-Shell-Pickguard-Cut-for-Neck-humbucker_p_751.html).

The one problem I see is that the way the switching for the P-Rails works, I can't come up with a way to wire it that avoids losing the bridge pickup signal for one of the three bridge-neck-in-series combos. Whichever coil is split by shunting its output to ground will take the bridge signal with it, since the both-in-series setting on the 4-way pickup selector switch is wired so that the bridge pickup signal feeds into the humbucker. I'm pretty sure I could get around that by using a second switch or by completely rewiring the 4-way, but I really don't want to do either. No big deal--9 different pickup combinations instead of 10!

Will update this thread as the project unfolds....

[Tig]

I've always been curious about P-Rails.

[duhvoodooman]

Me, too, obviously! I've yet to read a bad review. Everybody who tries them seems to love their tonal versatility.

[kidsmoke]

I've always been curious about P-Rails.


Me, too, obviously! I've yet to read a bad review. Everybody who tries them seems to love their tonal versatility.

i spend a lot of time on the Heritage Forum. There are a fair amount of corksniffers, as well as some very demanding but pragmatic journeyman musicians. Without exception everyone who's tried them loves them. I think it sounds pretty cool.

[sunvalleylaw]

Sounds cool! One of those in a jazzmaster could be cool.

[piebaldpython]

Sounds way cool.......like slide guitar heaven being able to go 'bucker.....to SC.......to P90......all in the flip of a mini-toggle. I'm DROOLING at the prospects.

[duhvoodooman]

Sounds way cool.......like slide guitar heaven being able to go 'bucker.....to SC.......to P90......all in the flip of a mini-toggle. I'm DROOLING at the prospects.

I leave this guitar tuned to open G all the time, and play (badly!) a bit of slide on it (when I'm not banging out Keef riffs). So what you're referring to is a big part of what I'm going for, Pie....

[duhvoodooman]

First step completed--won the P-Rails auction! Brand new pickup for $20 less than retail. Just ordered the pickguard from GFS, too....

[piebaldpython]

OK.......so you're buying 1 P-rail pup. What's the other pup? Could you use 2 P-rails pups on your Tele?

Sorry if these are dumb questions.......just trying to understand.

[sunvalleylaw]

First step completed--won the P-Rails auction! Brand new pickup for $20 less than retail. Just ordered the pickguard from GFS, too....

Hey, so you can put that in your tele? It is routed for it? Would it fit my CV?

[duhvoodooman]

OK.......so you're buying 1 P-rail pup. What's the other pup? Could you use 2 P-rails pups on your Tele?
Not without major surgery. The CV Tele's are routed for anything up to full humbucker size (which the P-Rails is) at the neck position, but have the traditional slanted single coil routing at the bridge position. I am going to try a GFS Fatbody Tele pickup at the bridge as part of this change.


Hey, so you can put that in your tele? It is routed for it? Would it fit my CV?Yes, as described above.

[sunvalleylaw]

Yes, as described above.

*re-reads thread* Oh, ok. Cool! This mod might end up being enough of a motivation to make me try it. Though I don't dislike the neck pup in my guitar at all, the idea of a p-90/bucker in the neck sounds killer. Having done the connector system, do you see any downside to doing it that way instead of just hardwiring the modified pup?


EDIT: after re-reading your recent posts on this, I hope you find a way to handle the issue with the bridge pup. Come on you mad scientist! We're counting on you!

[duhvoodooman]

The quick connector system is great if you think you might be switching back and forth between pickups. But if it's a permanent change you plan to make, it's probably more trouble than it's worth, since it takes a lot longer to set up the first time than just soldering a new pickup in place.

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, and if you figure out how to make this p-rail pup work, it will have both single coil and bucker capabilities so no real need to swap back and forth via the connector system. So, I hope this mod works for you so I can look at copying it!

[duhvoodooman]

Got the GFS Tele pickguard with the humbucker neck cavity today, so I took the opportunity to start prepping the guitar for the pickup change later this week when the P-Rails arrives. Thought I'd take a couple of photos while I was at it.

Here's the CV '50s Tele with the pickguard & minihumbucker removed. Note the size of the neck pickup routing--full humbucker size. BTW, those are just light scratches in the black conductive paint on the inside of the cavity, reflecting the camera flash:

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/CV_50s_Tele_neck_routing.jpg

Here's the new pickguard with a spare humbucker I had mounted into it and then set in place on the Tele body. Fits like a glove!

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/CV_50s_Tele_humbucker_fit.jpg

A wider angle shot of the preceding, showing the full body of the guitar. BTW, that's a new GFS "Fat Body" bridge pickup that I ordered along with the pickguard. Figured I try one of them along with the P-Rails, as long as I was "under the hood":

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/CV_50s_Tele_humbucker_full_body.jpg

Here's a shot of the previous pickguard, showing the mini-bucker mounting and the quick connect wiring. The green stuff is heat-shrink over the wire splice and connector pin soldering:

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/minibucker_quick_connect_wiring.jpg

[sunvalleylaw]

Very cool! Go mad scientist go!

[duhvoodooman]

A bit more progress--received the new P-Rails pickup yesterday, so here's a shot of the Tele with it mounted. Note the small toggle switch at the lower right side of the pickguard, near the control plate--that's the 3-position on-off-on SPDT switch that controls the P-Rails configuration. The middle "off" position is the dual-coil humbucker setting; up is the P-90 coil and down is the Rail coil. The switch is wired per the diagram from the Duncan site shown below, except I used an SPDT (the diagram shows a DPDT, with half unused) and the two wires coming off the throws don't go to the volume pot. Instead, they are wired to pins, like those shown in the mini-humbucker photo posted above, and then fed through the hole between the neck routing channel and the control cavity, which is where the "quick connector" that they plug into is located. The toggle switch is positioned to be right down at the end of the diagonal channel in the neck routing, so that it's as far from the strings as possible and won't interfere with picking/strumming.

I plan to finish up the control cavity wiring tonight. Adding a two-pin quick-connect for the bridge pickup, too. Might as well take this idea all the way...

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/CV_50s_Tele_P-Rails_installed.jpg

http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/images/support/schematics/1prail_1v.jpg

[duhvoodooman]

Wrapped it up this evening. Here's a photo of the finished guitar and a diagram I put together showing how the whole thing is wired together. Sounds just great--each position of the P-Rails' 3-way coil-splitter toggle sounds distinctive, and that carries over to the parallel and series combinations with the bridge pickup. Speaking of which, my initial impression of the GFS Fat Body I installed at the bridge is quite positive--a bigger, fuller tone than the stock pickup, but still a good, snappy Tele character. The P-Rails full humbucker setting is quite distinctive--doesn't sound like any other neck humbucker I've heard, which I guess isn't surprising, based upon how different the two coils are. Maintains quite a bit of the P-90 character, but smoother, fatter and a bit louder. Very attractive.

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/CV_50s_Tele_P-Rails_complete.jpg

http://www.duhvoodooman.com/miscimages/musical/CV50s_Tele/P-Rails_quick-connect+4-way_switch+50s_tone_pot.gif

[Tig]

Awesome! The combination of the P-Rail and 4-way switching could keep you busy experimenting for a long time.

[sunvalleylaw]

Very cool! I would love to put the toggle somewhere else, but based on the routing, it looks like that is the best place. I hope to hear some clips sometime soon! Excellent work, and excellent documentation. Makes it so even goof balls like me can follow what is going on. Congrats!

PS, do you have a shot of the back of the PG after the mods were completed but before you screwed it back on?

[duhvoodooman]

I would love to put the toggle somewhere else, but based on the routing, it looks like that is the best place.
Me, too, but unless you're willing to remove wood, that's pretty much the only place to put it. I generally strum/pick over the neck pickup, right around the 2nd octave point anyway, so it's not in my way at all where I have it.


PS, do you have a shot of the back of the PG after the mods were completed but before you screwed it back on?
No, I didn't. Wasn't much to see--looked pretty much like the photo above of the mini-bucker from the back, except for the toggle. The switch wiring really wouldn't be clear unless I took an extreme close-up shot--I figured that the diagram was the better way to show that.

[marnold]

Pretty nice. Clips or it didn't happen :)

[Brian Krashpad]

Bosstastic!

I would love to switch out the HB in my Tex-Mex Tele Special for a p-rail, but it already has a 5-way switch. So it could get dicey.

[marnold]

Can I just give this thread a bumpity-bump to see if DVM still likes that p-rail after five months?

[duhvoodooman]

Still diggin' it! Makes for a very flexible guitar--lots of different tones on tap. I think the P90 setting is probably my favorite, especially for the Open G stuff (Stones, Black Crowes, a bit of slide) that I use this guitar for, but all 3 modes sound good. Duncan hit a home run with this one, IMO.

[kidsmoke]

Very cool rig DVM.

[Duffy]

Does the butterscotch blonde CV tele have the HB neck rout?

[duhvoodooman]

Yeah, I believe all the CV Tele's do.

[Duffy]

Thanks. A Jazzmaster might go good in the neck. I'm not sure who would make a tele pickguard for a JM neck pickup. Ideas?

[duhvoodooman]

I'd look into Warmoth. They offer a wide variety of made-to-order pickguards: http://www.warmoth.com/Pickguard/TelePickguard.aspx

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, I am finally going to do the mod seeing as my tele is forcing me to take it apart anyway. The neck pickup in my tele stopped working. I have not taken it apart yet, so it may just be a loose wire, but as long as I am taking it apart and fixing things, I am going to put a quick connect system, and prepare a second PG with a BG P90 in it. DVM, I am betting not, but did you find any loss of signal or anything with the quick connect system?

Also, I am thinking I will just get the Duncan quick connect system, unless it is way more expensive than getting the parts. Any thoughts there?

[sunvalleylaw]

PS, DVM, did you ever measure how hot the pickups were in the CV or the CVC? I know the CVC has Alnico V magnets. Not sure how hot they are though.

[duhvoodooman]

DVM, I am betting not, but did you find any loss of signal or anything with the quick connect system?None evident.


Also, I am thinking I will just get the Duncan quick connect system, unless it is way more expensive than getting the parts. Any thoughts there?What Duncan product are you referring to?


PS, DVM, did you ever measure how hot the pickups were in the CV or the CVC? I know the CVC has Alnico V magnets. Not sure how hot they are though.They're pretty much vintage voiced in both guitars. The only stock pickup left in either of my CV Teles is the neck in the CVC, which is 6.5K. Pretty sure the bridge is comparable, but I replaced it with a used Fender CS Broadcaster so I can't check it for you.

[sunvalleylaw]

I meant the Duncan Liberator that you linked earlier in the thread after they "stole" your idea. ;)

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Seymour_Duncan_Introduces_Liberator_Solderless_Pic kup_Change_System.aspx They go for $24.95 on Amazon for both the 250 and 500 type pots.

I bet knowing they are vintage type is good enough. I could try measuring for myself. I don't remember if I have a meter though. I will have to search the garage. Man I am lazy sometimes. ;)

[duhvoodooman]

Yeah, I looked on the Duncan website and it all came flooding back...

Certainly seems like a $25 time-saver. But I don't see any of the Duncan wiring diagrams for it that show how to hook it up with a Tele-style 3-way switch. Everything seems to be based upon Les Paul type wiring. But you may be able to find something on the web....or figure it out yourself. Shouldn't be too hard.

[sunvalleylaw]

I looked at them and noticed that they come in the 250k and 500k pot variety. I am installing another single coil, but might like the option of putting in a Gretsch type humbucker later. I was reading how you balanced out the electronics to split the difference between your mini-humbucker and the bridge single coil. I will have to do some research to figure out the best way to do that. Or follow your way, and stay with the 250k pot until I decide I want to try some sort of humbucker.

[Duffy]

They say the Seymour Duncan "Pearly Gates" full size humbucker is designed to work well with 250k pots but can also be used with 500k pots. I'm not sure how that can be, but evidently this is the case.

I think Fender has been known to use 333k pots on some of their telecasters with the full humbucker at the neck and the traditional tele pickup single coil bridge. This sort of splits the difference and might make sense. It might sound good, but not exactly like either type guitar, which could be a good thing.

Going 500k would make the humbucker sound right and would brighten the single coil, which also might not be a bad idea. Some of those single coil guitars have historically used 1meg pots, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure if that would be ice pick city or if you could tame it with the tone knob, but that might work too.

I called Fender technical service and they looked at the wiring diagram for one of their big dollar telecasters with the full humbucker in the neck and told me how they do it so both pickups sound right. I think that is when they told me about the 333k pots.

It looks like a challenge but there are a lot great guitars set up that way, so there must be good ways of wiring them up. I would want to do it so the full humbucker sounds good, and not muddy or bass boomy with 250k pots. I don't think that would be enjoyable.

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks Duffy. Remember, I will be initially installing a P90, and just wanted to leave open the possibility of a quickconnect pickguard with a Gretsch type/Filtertron type humbucker in it. The Duncan Liberator comes in either a 250k or 500k model. Hmm.

If after looking at it, I go with a Liberator rather than follow what DVM did, I will start a new thread so I don't dirty up his thread any more.

[Duffy]

The P 90 sounds like it will be an awesome guitar, and you will not have to change the pot values, just wire it in with the quick connects or whatever you choose.

Your plan for the P 90 sounds awesome and I will definitely be looking forward to reading about it and seeing the pictures.

[duhvoodooman]

Thanks Duffy. Remember, I will be initially installing a P90, and just wanted to leave open the possibility of a quickconnect pickguard with a Gretsch type/Filtertron type humbucker in it. The Duncan Liberator comes in either a 250k or 500k model. Hmm.

If after looking at it, I go with a Liberator rather than follow what DVM did, I will start a new thread so I don't dirty up his thread any more.
A couple of considerations for you, Steve:

1) I poked around some on the web and didn't find any guidance on how to wire in the Liberator for a Telecaster. Having looked at the unit, I've got a pretty good idea how to do it. But I'm not buying a Liberator, and maybe you are....

2) Hopefully you realize this, but the Liberator is not a totally solderless system--it's solderless for the pickup wire connections. You'll still need to solder the Liberator to the 3-way pickup selector switch. So you don't get totally off the solder iron hook, FWIW....

3) The Liberator is a fairly beefy unit due to the depth of the unit and the width of that 10-screw connector strip. Maker sure that it will fit into the Tele's control cavity! Maybe Duncan lists the dimensions somewhere?

While poking around on the interwebs looking at solderless pickup connector systems, I came across THIS BAD BOY (http://www.elek-trix.com/collections/telecaster). Considerably more expensive, but truly solderless and unbelievably flexible, even having auto-switching between 250K and 500K pot resistance depending on which pickup is selected. Major droolage ensued....

[sunvalleylaw]

Well THAT is cool! Since I do not have a second pickup in mind at this point, I was just going to solder the new one in as at least that much was going to be required for the Duncan unit. If after playing the guitar with the new pickup I think I want it to be swappable, then I think I would step up to this new on you found. Good Find, Mr. Mad Guitar Scientist!

[duhvoodooman]

I think I'm going to pick one of those up, not because it's solderless (I'm pretty comfortable with soldering! ;)), but because of all the other switchable capabilities it has. Modern or 50's style volume pot connection, treble bleed, auto-vol. pot resistance switching, 3- or 4-way pickup selector switch capability, 9 different selectable tone cap values. Wowzah!! :drool :socool

EDIT: One obstacle to overcome--the CV Tele's have a raised section of wood in the middle of the control cavity that interferes with the Elek-Trix module and has to be removed for it to fit:

"As long as your control cavity is 1.00" wide, 1.50" deep and is flat on the bottom then it will fit with no problems. If your control cavity has a raised section in the center like some newer Tele models then you will need to remove it."

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0145/1982/files/Nashville_Tele_mod_large.jpg?2782

Since the CV body is pine and very soft, it should be pretty easy to remove with a chisel.

[sunvalleylaw]

That seems pretty tempting. I would have to remove a bit of alder on mine.

[sunvalleylaw]

So can you update us on how the install of that wiring kit went? It looks pretty slick!

[duhvoodooman]

It's pretty straightforward, and truly solderless. I started by clipping all the wires off the original control plate assembly right above their solder connections. (I bought my Santellan Elek-Trix with a control plate--an extra $10--so that now I have a complete spare Tele control assembly to save as a back-up or sell if I decide I don't need it.) Next, I slid the Santellan unit into the Tele control cavity to see how it fit. It turned out that because of the layout of the Santellan module's components (high at the 4-way switch and the wire connector block but lower in between them), it was not necessary to completely remove the raised center section of the control cavity. The module only interfered with the center "hump" at the tone control end, so I was able to grind out as much as I needed (about 1/4 - 3/8") to remove using a 1/2" sanding drum on my Dremel tool. Here's what the Santellan unit looks like--the nice diamond-knurl knobs and output jack are included with it:

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0145/1982/products/Elektrix-Tele-3way_8_1024x1024.png?700

After that, it was just a matter of stripping about 1/4" of insulation off the wire ends, spiral-twisting the strands together and inserting them into the correct connector slot on the Santellan module. Their excellent detailed installation diagram (http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0145/1982/files/Tele-WK-SS-Switch-Settingsy.pdf) made this a breeze. You just depress the small tab on top with the blade of a small screwdriver, slide the wire end into the slot, and release the tab. The internal connection mechanism grabs the wire end and holds it quite securely. There's also a grounding block with a set screw on the tone control part of the module, so you can connect any additional ground wires that you don't have a place for on the connector block. I hooked up the ground wire for the bridge plate there. The slider switches to set the various feature options and tone control capacitance can then be set as desired with the tip of a small flat-blade screwdriver.

Probably the toughest part of the installation for me was routing the excess pickup wire around in the control cavity so that it's tucked out of the way, because I don't like to trim the pickup wires short--might need the extra length in the future. The Santellan unit is pretty bulky, so getting the excess wire tucked into where it wouldn't interfere with anything took a bit of finagling. Not a big deal, though.

[sunvalleylaw]

Cool! Thanks for the report. That is what I will use in my project. I am not sure that I really need the 4th position, but for an extra $10, it is worth trying out.

[duhvoodooman]

I am not sure that I really need the 4th position, but for an extra $10, it is worth trying out.
Oh, you don't need it, but once you hear it, you'll be glad you have it!

[Tig]

I can see one of those in my future. :AOK

[Duffy]

A couple of considerations for you, Steve:

even having auto-switching between 250K and 500K pot resistance depending on which pickup is selected. Major droolage ensued....



I know this was a concern. This unit sounds great. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

I checked the wiring diagrams on fenders web page and notice that my '72 Custom reissue telecaster, with the full size wide range humbucker at the neck, as well as my Lonestar strat with the SD Pearly Gates bridge pickup, both have "only" 250k pots. So this indicates that you can use 250k pots in guitars that mix single coils and full sized humbuckers, and use them effectively with great sound.

I realize that at this time you are installing a P90 in your CVC and have that awesome control assembly. I just thought I'd mention this because I, for one, have been wondering what pot or pots they put in those guitars that mix the single coils with the full sized humbuckers; like the tele's with the neck humbuckers, and the hss strats. I have also read that some people switch the pots to 500k in these guitars. Mine are staying like they are.

I hope this information helps anyone that is thinking of putting a full sized humbucker in the neck of their tele or bridge of their strat.

[sunvalleylaw]

Thanks Duffy. That is the cool thing about this Santellan sounds unit, because you can easily swap pickups, and also mix and match pot values to see what works best.

[Duffy]

Thanks Duffy. That is the cool thing about this Santellan sounds unit, because you can easily swap pickups, and also mix and match pot values to see what works best.

I see that. That looks like a useful item.

One of my favorite guitar styles for just overall vibe and playing is a telecaster with a full sized humbucker at the neck and a really nice single coil telecaster bridge pickup. Although some complain about the wide range HB at the neck of the Fender '72 Custom reissue telecaster, I totally appreciate the tone of the WRHB, plus it has a really nice Fender tele bridge pickup. I also have a Peavey Generation EXP tele with a full sized regular covered HB at the neck and a surprisingly nice bridge tele pickup - this Peavey guitar feels great and has a really great vibe to it with a beautiful antique burst and maple fretboard. It just feels and plays great in addition to its remarkable sound.

I think a P90 at the neck of your CVC is going to bring that guitar into some uncharted territory to explore. I suppose it will sound a lot different from the stock guitar and that the P90 will be very useful. That black pickguard also is going to look very cool. I might have to put a RWRP P90 at the neck of one of my tele's, but definitely not one of the ones with the humbucker neck pickups - they are not going anywhere.

Man, I bet you are anxious to start putting that project together; and even more anxious to start playing it and chasing its mojo. The Classic 30 is a cool amp and should keep you happy with that. Lately I have been playing guitars at a local store exclusively thru a nice Fender Blues Jr III, black stock one, and it has a really beautiful clean sound that overdrives easily as you turn it up, without flushing the management off their roosts. That is a very nice, so called, little amp.