inexpensive amp for jams

[barber76]

Hi everyone! My first post/thread here.
It's finally time to get out of bedroom and jam! So I'm going to buy inexpensive amp for jams (currently I use Blackstar HT-5 or Pandora PX4D for practice). My requirements:
1) New one. Just for the peace of mind.
2) < $450 strict! Less is better.
3) 40-100W. My guess is that for < $450 I have to go with SS or hybrid, then it's better to be > 50W.
4) Styles: mainly blues, blues-rock. Nothing too heavy. From cleans to moderate overdrive.
5) I have a Blackheart 12' cab capable of handling 75W, so heads are also an option
6) No Bugera / JetCity. Just prejudice...

Currently my list of contenders is:
1) Vypyr tube 60 - the very top of my budget, no Sanpera...
2) Peavey Valveking 112
3) Carvin VT50 - vintage all-tube head. Also the very top of my budget.
4) Vypyr 75
5) B-52 LG7512
6) Vox valvetronix VT50

Amps that were eliminated after some discussion at HC are Carvin SX300 & Fender Frontman 212R.
I tried Valveking and Vypyr 75 in local GC and Vypyr didn't sound bad at all, plus amount of stuff included in it is amazing - AUX in, headphones out etc etc. No FX loop, but with those number of built-in effects it doesn't really matter. If Vypyr tube 60 indeed adds some natural tube flavor on top of this, it is definitely my top preference so far.
Your advice/opinions are welcome!

[Robert]

How about a used Peavey Classic 30 for $350 or so? Great little amphs.

For example => http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/msg/1851741067.html

[markb]

Apart from seconding the Classic 30 I'd say try a Roland Cube 60 or 80X. You might be pleasantly surprised. They're certainly loud enough and easy on the back too :)

[barber76]

How about a used Peavey Classic 30 for $350 or so? Great little amphs.
For example => http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/msg/1851741067.html

That's exactly what guys at HC recommended :) Although it doesn't correspond to my req.N1, I'll consider this too... is 30W tube enough for gigging at small clubs?
What really attracts me in Vypyrs is AUX IN - possible jamming along MP3 backtrack... :rockon:

[Duffy]

The Fender Super Champ XD is an awesome all tube sort of amp, with a digital modelling and effects section. Outstanding Fender and other high gain models like Marshall, Vox, etc. Reverb, Chorus, etc., included and very good.

I put an Eminence Ragin' Cajun speaker in mine and it is about twice as loud as stock in perceived volume because of its greater sensitivity than the stock speaker and the speaker holds the models very well.

This amp has a ten inch speaker and is 15 all tube watts, including a tube preamp and tube power amp. Therefore using the rule of thumb of 1 tube watt equals 3 solid state watts, the SCXD would sound about as loud as an approximately 50 ss watt amp +/-.

Check on the fenderforum.com for the Super Champ XD thread. It is a highly respected amp and definitely jammable. Plus you get a five year warranty.

Very good amp that a lot of guys here have. Has versatility and power and excellent sound even stock.

I would say the SCXD is an outstanding amp and have not tried out the Vypyr tube sixty, but the Vypyrs that I tried were cheaply built, lit up like Christmas trees, and screamed bells and whistles. Compared to a simple one or two channel amp immediately after playing the Vypyr yielded a much more pleasant and satisfying sound, and erased dazzling tone still ringing in my ears with some really solid, full sounding, quality amp sounds.

I would rather have the ValveKing 112 any day. That's like 50 tube watts, a lot of watts. I have played that a few times and like it. Just put your pedals in front of it or a multipedal if you want a million sounds. This is a powerful amp, totally able to drownd out any loud drummer without a problem. None of this drummer yelling, "Hey, why don't you get a real amp", BS. He will be waving you down frantically. This is what you want, not an underpowered amp.

Dudes you jam with will probably have way more watts than they need, and be able to get real loud.

[barber76]

Apart from seconding the Classic 30 I'd say try a Roland Cube 60 or 80X. You might be pleasantly surprised. They're certainly loud enough and easy on the back too :)

I'm no sound gourmet, and judging amps from youtube videos is wrong, but all reviews/demos of Roland Cube I heard there sound completely synthetic. Btw, my first amp was Microcube, and it also sounded quite unnatural (but it had AUX IN and was built like a brick).

[oldguy]

1) New one. Just for the peace of mind.
2) < $450 strict! Less is better.
6) No Bugera / JetCity. Just prejudice...


That pretty much nullifies my recommendations.

[Eric]

Seems like you've already made up your mind on this, but of those listed, I'd go with the Peavey Valveking.

[hubberjub]

I'll consider this too... is 30W tube enough for gigging at small clubs?
What really attracts me in Vypyrs is AUX IN - possible jamming along MP3 backtrack... :rockon:


I've played larger than small clubs with my 20 watt Soldano. 30 watts is plenty for anything.

[Duffy]

Remember: 30 tube watts will be loud enough. 30 solid state or hybrid watts will not be loud enough for jamming with a loud drummer. A 30 watt solid state amp is equal to a roughly 10 watt tube amp.

30 all tube watts will be loud enough. This means it should have a tube preamp and a tube power amp, not just one or the other. I doubt that the small preamp tubes used in the power section on some hybrid amps, 12AX7's, have the output power of regular power amp tubes, and I doubt that the 3:1 loudness ratio applies to them. They always use just one small or mini preamp tube in the power section rather than two or four big specialized power amp tubes. Even amps using one big specialized power amp tube are capable of more output power than a small preamp tube in the power section I believe.

[birv2]

It's not on your list, but I would recommend the Pro Jr. It's my grab and go amp for jams. It's only 15 watts, but it is freaking loud. I always get told to turn down. It's not heavy, either.

I play blues with mild overdrive, and all I need nowadays is my guitar and that amp. Amazing tone monster!

[6stringdrug]

+1 on the super champ xd. <$300, plenty loud and easily will power you cab.
I have a homemade 2/4 x 10 cab with greenbacks i run through when i play bigger clubs. Have yet to use the top 2 speakers. 15w all tube is alot louder than you would imagine. plus the modeling feature can change the amp voice with surprizing accuracy to just about anything you want. great little amp.

:spank

[kidsmoke]

I haven't played one, but reading the literature, and considering your criteria, you may want to see if there is a dealer in your area.....Looks like Guitar Center is on the list.

Bugera V22 (http://www.guitarcenter.com/Bugera-V22-22W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-105460992-i1470775.gc?source=4WFRWXX&CAWELAID=474202784)

[hubberjub]

+1 on the super champ xd. <$300, plenty loud and easily will power you cab.
I have a homemade 2/4 x 10 cab with greenbacks i run through when i play bigger clubs. Have yet to use the top 2 speakers. 15w all tube is alot louder than you would imagine. plus the modeling feature can change the amp voice with surprizing accuracy to just about anything you want. great little amp.

:spank

I thought the Super Champ XD was a hybrid. There's nothing wrong with it if it is, I'm just asking.

[Tig]

I haven't played one, but reading the literature, and considering your criteria, you may want to see if there is a dealer in your area.....Looks like Guitar Center is on the list.

Bugera V22 (http://www.guitarcenter.com/Bugera-V22-22W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-105460992-i1470775.gc?source=4WFRWXX&CAWELAID=474202784)

+1
Yep, don't let the brand fool ya'. The Bugera V22 is an excellent tube amp full of fine clean thru saturated tones and plenty loud.

[Duffy]

The Super Champ XD is not exactly a hybrid. It is a two channel amp with channel one being the all tube channel and channel two has voicings. Both channels run thru the tube power amp. Not sure if the voiced channel runs thru the preamp tube as well, but I think it does, with the digital voicing placed in the signal chain between the preamp tube section and the power amp tube.

In any case it is not a typical hybrid amp, but an all tube type amp with digital modelling and effects.

Try one out. These are great amps and are contenders with the Fender Blues Junior among Fender afficianados. Of course the Blues Junior is another outstanding all tube, no modelling amp not far out of your price range new and the Fender Pro Junior is definitely within your price zone.

[barber76]

And no opinions at all on Carvin VT50 & B-52 LG? Same was on HC - seems like this two are very rare.

[hubberjub]

And no opinions at all on Carvin VT50 & B-52 LG? Same was on HC - seems like this two are very rare.

I've never played through it, but my friend just traded his vintage MusicMan combo for a used Carvin VT50. He absolutely loves it. His band is kind of a Grateful Dead meets tasteful prog rock. I've only heard him play it at one gig and is sounded pretty good.

[6stringdrug]

the XD is a hybrid, solid state/tube preamp. the solid state models the voices and the tube warms them up. I played alot of the voiced amps and this one was so warm and inviting. the tube really makes a huge difference over pure solid state preamps. the first channel doesnt use the solid state at all, all tube, sounds like the old champ did, very simple, not too much break up. when you switch over and pick a voice (i like the blackface voice myself) the tube in the preamp really helps the modeling do its job, and of course the power amp tubes break up beautiflly at volume, like they are supposed to. also, the hybrid part controls the built in effects (reverb, delay, tremolo, vibratone) none of these efeects are mind blowing being all digital, but they do very well. I can hear the difference but it's not so bad that i don't use them. For my money, it was the best low wattage amp i played. When i hit the lotto ill get my vintage super reverb, but until then...this is my budget friendly all fender tone. Surprizingly mimics marshall and vox tone very well too!

[Radioboy950]

Love the discussion here.

Not to "jack" this thread....but....

With regard to the Fender SCXD (a very cool amp)--why is this amp being called a "hybrid" when it has a valve pre-amp, and 6V6 output tubes?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to call it a "tube amp with digital modeling/effects"?

I thought something like the Vox AD50VT is a hybrid...a tube-driven preamp, solid state power amp.

Just sayin...

[barber76]

I thought something like the Vox AD50VT is a hybrid...a tube-driven preamp, solid state power amp.
Just sayin...

While Vypyr 60 is 'opposite' kind of hybrid - SS pre & tube power.

[Radioboy950]

While Vypyr 60 is 'opposite' kind of hybrid - SS pre & tube power.

Wow, didn't know that.
Lots of choices out there indeed.

[markb]

Love the discussion here.

Not to "jack" this thread....but....

With regard to the Fender SCXD (a very cool amp)--why is this amp being called a "hybrid" when it has a valve pre-amp, and 6V6 output tubes?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to call it a "tube amp with digital modeling/effects"?

I thought something like the Vox AD50VT is a hybrid...a tube-driven preamp, solid state power amp.

Just sayin...

Just a few observations on the digital/valve hybrids that have been mentioned.

The 12AX7 in the SCXD is acting as a phase inverter or driver tube. The preamp is all SS/digital.

In the Vox AD50VT the valve is used as a tiny power amp which is then fed to a 50w SS power stage to do the heavy lifting. Again the preamp is all digital modelling.

I don't know about the Vypyr. The styling puts me off even looking at them ;)

[barber76]

The 12AX7 in the SCXD is acting as a phase inverter or driver tube. The preamp is all SS/digital.

I believe I read exactly the same thing about Vypyrs. They all have 12AX7 as well.


I don't know about the Vypyr. The styling puts me off even looking at them ;)
You don't like spaceships? Tweed & vintage knobs are way to go? ;)

[oldguy]

It's too bad you weren't around when the great blowout special was going around on the Peavey Windsor heads. Def. enough power and volume there.

[kiteman]

Good proven amp. :)

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-Bandit-112-Guitar-Amplifier-with-TransTube-Technology?sku=481332&src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=31062275

[poodlesrule]

Good proven amp. :)

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-Bandit-112-Guitar-Amplifier-with-TransTube-Technology?sku=481332&src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=31062275


I read here that the older Bandits were not as good as current crop.

There are quite a few on the used market (looking at one now). How to differenciate "old" for "new"..?

[bigG]

Of the amps listed here that I have played thru, I highly recommend the Peavey Bandit (have an '83 Peavey Bandit 65 - 1x12; still looks and sounds like new - fantastic! Built like a tank, never a problem w it. GREAT tone and flexibility for a SS amp.), and the Fender Super Champ XD: talk about value for $ spent! Insanely good for $300 new! The clean channel alone is worth the price.)

G

[barber76]

Of the amps listed here that I have played thru, I highly recommend the Peavey Bandit
G

Although I never played it (there are very few amps I actually played), Bandit is SS with Peavey's patented transtube technology. But Vypyrs have this 'transtube' stuff, whatever is this, too. Overall, out of modeling & hybrid amps Vypyr 60 still goes my choice N1. Its' longterm reliability is, of course, a question.

Now, after all things that've been said here, my list is:
1) Vypyr tube 60 (aux in, aux in, aux in, aux in, AUX IN!)
2) Used Peavey classic 30
3) Carvin VT-50 (made in USA, 50W all-tube, and I have a cab for it). Gain channel reportedly sucks on this one, but I can use a pedal.
4) Valveking 112
5) Fender SCXD - after people mentioned it here.
Out of list go B-52 & valvetronix.

Come weekends, and I'll make a marathon run across nearby guitar stores, trying whatever of these I'll find.
Thanks everyone! :thumbsup

[Eric]

Although I never played it (there are very few amps I actually played), Bandit is SS with Peavey's patented transtube technology. But Vypyrs have this 'transtube' stuff, whatever is this, too. Overall, out of modeling & hybrid amps Vypyr 60 still goes my choice N1. Its' longterm reliability is, of course, a question.

Now, after all things that've been said here, my list is:
1) Vypyr tube 60 (aux in, aux in, aux in, aux in, AUX IN!)
2) Used Peavey classic 30
3) Carvin VT-50 (made in USA, 50W all-tube, and I have a cab for it). Gain channel reportedly sucks on this one, but I can use a pedal.
4) Valveking 112
5) Fender SCXD - after people mentioned it here.
Out of list go B-52 & valvetronix.

Come weekends, and I'll make a marathon run across nearby guitar stores, trying whatever of these I'll find.
Thanks everyone! :thumbsup
There are quite a few other amps with aux in if that's so important. I personally never use it, even on amps that have it, but you might want to otherwise expand your search. I suppose I'm just wondering if a simple throw-in feature like aux in justifies choosing one amp over the other. The statement of the obvious is that it's up to you, I gues.

Also, I remember reading that the transtube technology is Peavey's answer to the sag you experience with tube amps.

[Duffy]

I have to agree with Eric. I can't remember using the aux in while playing guitar. I usually play along to my stereo or outstanding computer speaker system.

On amps that have the aux in, one of them I upgraded the speaker to a Celestion twelve inch Seventy/80 and it now sounds great when I play my portable CD player thru it. I use this Crate amp to set up near my drum set when I play them along to music and it works great, sounds really good. Almost as good as a stereo.

I would not let the aux in absense stop me from getting a superior amp.

What is your need for the aux in?

Also, remember that the volume you get out of an aux in is dependent upon the volume controls on the "source" audio unit, not the volume knob on the amp. The amp's volume control does not control or increase the volume of the unit plugged into the aux in, the amp's volume control only increases the volume of your guitar, not the aux unit. Therefore it is easy to drownd out the aux in sound when you turn your amp up playing guitar. After you turn the volume on your source unit up beyond a certain level the quality of the sound starts to degrade a lot.

The aux in can be fun and "may" be useful to drive a portable CD or MP3 player as a speaker unit. I would test out its effectiveness and listen to the quality of the sound at the level you plan on listening to it.

[bigG]

barber76,

Your #1 choice of the Peavey Vypyr is certainly a popular one here locally. My local mom'n'pop Peavey dealer can't keep those amps in stock! Whether the tubed or SS (Transtube).

I'm usually in their store at least once a week (they're also the local Martin dealer), and the way those Vypyrs disappear in a week's time is phenomenol! He's gone from ordering 6-8 at a time to 12-15 at a time! And STILL runs low on 'em before the next bunch arrives!

If that's any indication - I hope it helps.

G

[poodlesrule]

barber76,
... and the way those Vypyrs disappear in a week's time is phenomenal!

Could it be that, taking a motorcycle market analogy, the hot 600 c.c. Suzukis selling in high volume to young, often inexperienced riders, and the more refined (and spendier) touring bikes sit a lot longer?

[hubberjub]

Could it be that, taking a motorcycle market analogy, the hot 600 c.c. Suzukis selling in high volume to young, often inexperienced riders, and the more refined (and spendier) touring bikes sit a lot longer?

The same could be said for almost anything. I've never played a Peavey Vyper but I've heard good things about them. No, they probably aren't going to replace a nice tube amp, but the OP is just looking for a small amp for jamming or playing a small gig. There's nothing wrong with having an inexpensive amp on hand. I can't speak for the motorcycles though. I hear Suzuki makes a good bike.

[barber76]

I have to agree with Eric. I can't remember using the aux in while playing guitar.
...
What is your need for the aux in?

Don't laugh... But if I jam (and I mean playing particular song exactly as I learned from tabs) in the company of newbs like myself, I'd have much more trust in my MP3 backing track.

Upd: adding Peavey Bandit to consideration. Clean channel demos sound amazing, and most owners state it's built rock solid. Though, I don't understand, why Vypyr 75, which is also claimed to have this "transtube", and has ton more features over Bandit, costs the same...

[barber76]

there is also some Peavey Windsor Studio, 20W all-tube (as I was told here, it is ~50-60W SS?) combo $399 new. Just noticed it.

Upd: Nevermind. Reviews are so-so.

[Katastrophe]

I've played the Windsor 20, and I gotta say that I wasn't impressed. It was an extremely dark sounding amp, even when playing an American SSS Strat and an G&L American ASAT.

It was unfortunate, really, as I generally like Peavey amps.

[oldguy]

Been searching for something close to your criteria and price, within reason.
You should look at these when you have a chance, I think. :greenguitar:

(I know the BH's around $50 over budget, but it's tube.)

http://www.music123.com/Dean-Dimebag-D100-120W-Guitar-Amp-Head-584512-i1503660.Music123

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BLABH100H

[barber76]

Pulled the trigger on Vypyr tube 60 (online via MF). Will test it extensively upon arrival, and if software glitches are significant, will return & take Bandit (unfortunately, I didn't take Sanpera, while some of the glitches I've read about were related to Sanpera<->Amp midi communication).
Most of complaints at Vypyr threads are dated 2008/2009. Firmware versions 1.58/1.66 are considered stable, so I'm optimistic.

I'll post how my Vypyr experience will go.

[barber76]

Got my Vypyr tube 60.
Bad thing: can't update firmware, so $25 for USB-midi cable are spent idle. Good thing: so far haven't had any problems with factory firmware v.1.55, so update isn't critical. Long-term reliability is a big question, so knocking on wood and praying for factory warranty.
Played ~2.5 hours via speaker, and ~2 hours via headphones.
The amp is LOUD. I'm not risking playing it via speaker even in apartment's garage. Also, this thing is goddamn computer - you need to read a manual at least once to start tweaking presets. Factory presets are, as expected, overloaded with all kinds of quirky effects and useless.
Some guy in his mid 40s heard me testing it, and told that it sounds great. He said he has Valvetronix.
I definitely will try putting overdrive pedal in front. Not too good idea for modeling amp, but I'm curious how it'll handle it.

[oldguy]

That's great! Congrats on your new amph, glad to hear you're liking it.:applause

[bigG]

Congrats on your new amp, man! :applause

If local sales of the Vypyr series are any indication, well, they haven't had one returned yet since they first became available (off the top of my head, I'd guess they've sold maybe 100 +/- incl the 15w thru the 100w). And you're right about studying the manual - imperative w that amp!

[barber76]

Thanks for congrats, guys!
Today my teacher (blues pro) spent about an hour with my Tube 60, and almost all he told me, confirms what I've read about Vypyr from different sources.
1) Fender amps (esp. Twin) suck and sound synthetic in both clean & gain channels.
2) he liked Classic (Peavey Classic 50) model a lot, saying it's pretty damn close to real thing. His favorite lead blues setting was clean channel classic + tube screamer + just a touch of reverb.
3) he abolutely loved 6505 & Rec, though hard rock stuff isn't his cup of tea. Said that my amp must be a great purchase for heavy-oriented players.
4) also he tried a few built-in rack effects and haven't had anything specific to criticize - they just work as they should.