Les Paul Junior Project Pickup ?????'s P90?

[6stringdrug]

I recently got a Les Paul Junior. The previous owner had done a number on it. Completely stripped, and spray painted hammered silver. Hideous. I'm in the process of refinishing it and getting the parts for it. Tuners, pickgaurd, jack and plate, pots, nut, bridge and pickup.

Which leads me to my question.

It has a humbucker size pickup cavity, but I would like to put a p90 in there. Always been a fan of that tone. I've been looking around and I've narrowed my choices down to 3:

Seymour Duncan Phat Cat
Gibson P94
Kent Armstrong retrofit P90

No particular order there, just curious if anyone out there has experience with any of these and what you think about them.

Sound off Fretters!!!:poke

[Heywood Jablomie]

Have heard nothing but good things about all 3. GFS Mean 90s are very good, but less $.

[t_ross33]

I'm going to assume that it's an Epiphone LP Jr... can't imagine someone trashing a Gibson that bad... but stranger things have happened. I think the Gibson version only came with a dog-eared P90, but could be wrong. In any case, if it's the Epi version, then a GFS 'bucker sized 90 would be the ticket. Some of the p'ups you mentioned are worth as much or more than the guitar - :tongue:

[6stringdrug]

it is an epi, got it for $5!!! So far, I've got the parts ordered that I didn't already have, i got $35 invested. All I own are "value" guitars, and it's been my experience that the biggest change I can make to any axe is to upgrade the pickups. I am a huge fan of the seymour duncan line, but now, I'll look into the gfs's. I have found all 3 on my list, new under $75 on ebay, that's the last thing I need to buy for it.

[Tig]

it is an epi, got it for $5!!! So far, I've got the parts ordered that I didn't already have, i got $35 invested. All I own are "value" guitars, and it's been my experience that the biggest change I can make to any axe is to upgrade the pickups. I am a huge fan of the seymour duncan line, but now, I'll look into the gfs's. I have found all 3 on my list, new under $75 on ebay, that's the last thing I need to buy for it.

I bought the same guitar a few years ago for my son, but for $60. Luckily, it was in good shape for a cheap guitar, and only needed new strings. I replaced the stock humbucker, which helped the tone quite a bit.

I'd definitely go with the GFS Mean 90 (http://store.guitarfetish.com/Mean-90-Gloss-Black-TRUE-Alnico-P90-FAT-and-Loud-_c_132.html) for an Epi LP Jr. I'm glad to hear you replaced the crappy tuners and pots. It should turn out to be a fun little guitar! :happy

[6stringdrug]

Wow! I just did some extensive searching for sound clips of the gfs mean 90's! $40 cheaper than the SD'sand the difference in tone is not worth that price to me. I think I am sold. As soon as my paycheck clears I will pull the trigger on that one! parts started arriving today, hopefully I'll be jamming my new axe by next weekend!!!!!! Thanks for the input guys!

[Heywood Jablomie]

Wow! I just did some extensive searching for sound clips of the gfs mean 90's! $40 cheaper than the SD'sand the difference in tone is not worth that price to me. I think I am sold. As soon as my paycheck clears I will pull the trigger on that one! parts started arriving today, hopefully I'll be jamming my new axe by next weekend!!!!!! Thanks for the input guys!
While there are opinions all over the place for GFS humbuckers, the Mean 90 seems to be almost universally liked.

[6stringdrug]

well, I musta listened to 50 clips just of gfs!! listened to their humbuckers, the fat pat, dream 90, dream 180, their vintage II, and the mean 90. The mean 90 was the closest to the tone I'm looking for. I actually prefer the gibson p94, but it's just too much $. The Duncan sounds great too, but for the $, on this guitar, the mean 90 is going to do the trick quite nicely and not take food off the table! I am loving these little project guitars I keep finding, definitly keeping me busy late at nite!

[markb]

The GFS Mean 90 is the closest to a P90. The Dream 90 is more like an overwound strat pckup in a big case.

[Perfect Stranger]

I have a Gibson P94 is a Tele.....and it is almost too mellow. Not P-90ish at all

[6stringdrug]

ok, after exhaustive you tube research, I am going to pull the trigger on the gfs mean 90. Price+performance+tone=me buying this pickup. I'll post an opinion once its in and installed and I get a chance to play it a bit. Thanks for your help guys

[Duffy]

The GFS is probably the best choice for a lot of reasons, but,

it is not going to be a Seymour Duncan or Gibson or big name aftermarket pickup. You would be able to find better sounding pickups, undoubtedly.

I have bought GFS pickups quite a few times and was satisfied with the dual rail single coil humbuckers, but think I could have done better with another aftermarket maker for close money.

Found Seymour Duncan pickups to be superior to most pickups I have played. For the extra money I have found them to be better than most cheap pickups; better value than the difference in the money spent.

I bought hot P bass GFS pickups instead of SD Qtr Pounders and have regretted it even though I saved a few bucks. The GFS P bass pickups were not much better than the original ones I replaced.

I don't know anything about the Mean 90, but do know that "some" of the GFS pickups are great. It is a matter of knowing which ones are great, because the propaganda, er, "advertising" on the website is like a lot of the aftermarket pickup websites - very flowery descriptions with broad claims about how great their pickups are.

So you have to be careful with GFS. You are doing the right thing checking with guys here that have experience with the exact pickup and application you are doing.

I bought an Xavier XV500 that is an LP copy with a quarter inch solid maple cap on top of solid mahogany with a set mahogany neck and GFS crunchy FAT PAT pickups stock. This guitar sounds awesome. Should have new tuners, but otherwise is an incredible deal. 208 US dollars. Unbelievable, new.

Good luck with it. It will be a really cool looking and sounding guitar, especially replacing all those electronic upgrades. Be sure to ground it real good so you don't get anymore noise than you need. Even consider ordering some of that copper tape to line the cavity and bottom of the pickguard. Supposedly aluminum foil works okay but not as good as copper tape. And make sure to ground the copper tape with a wire or have it in contact with metal. I'd try to run a wire to a real good ground from the copper tape shielding but I'm not sure where on that guitar, in addition to grounding everything to the top of the pot.

The reason I stress grounding is because noise is a big problem with P90 guitars. But when you get it right, where you can tolerate the noise, they are awesome guitars to play.

Another thing I noticed about these single coil guitars is that you can't play them thru ultra high gain rigs; super high gain pedals, plus other pedals, and then overdrive on the amp - or they sound REAL noisy.

So what are you going to get for an amp?

[6stringdrug]

I play through a fender superchamp xd. I use the clean channel or its tweed voice, depending on the song. My main axe right now is a telepartscaster I put together with dual SD humbuckers. At the price I got this guitar I really couldnt pass it up, once its done I'll have less than $100 in it. Really, I'm already done except for the wiring and once the pickup comes in (hopefully middle of next week) I can get that done and fire her up! I have a ton of pedals but seem to have the noise pretty much under control. It's not perfect becuse the XD doesn't have an effects loop but the only pedal that gives me any trouble is my ts-9 which I use for really high gain stuff. I have a ts-808 I use for boost and a little more oomph, and the ts-9 is used in conjunction to rattle the windows and gives me some nasty (good nasty) feedback. I made the mistake with my frankentele about grounding and for sure have learned my lesson there. It's already shielded, made a huge difference for my FT so I did the same thing here.

I too, love seymour duncan, but I am working on a budget here and I don't plan on gigging this guitar, it's more for fun and a new sound to play around with. I usually come up with my best ideas songwritingwise just fooling with my pedals and tone knobs. I've never had a p-90 equipped guitar and am really looking forward to seeing firsthand what they can do!

[Duffy]

A 90 will sound beautiful: chime or roar! Sounds like you are doing a good job. I will be interested in hearing how you like that GFS Mean 90. What are the pot values you are using with that?

[Heywood Jablomie]

A guy I know from other fora has a Gibson 330 with stock P90s, a Casino with Duncan P90s, and a LTD solid body that he recently put Mean 90s into. He reports that while the pickups are slightly different, they ALL sound excellent. He is quite impressed with the Mean 90s in comparison with the higher-end pickups. In fact, he used to gig with the Casino (he didn't want to risk his semi-collector item 330), but now gigs with the Mean 90-loaded LTD instead. This guy is a full-time professional musician, so his credibility is certainly there.

I really like my Mean 90s, and I'm nearly certain that you will, too.

[6stringdrug]

A 90 will sound beautiful: chime or roar! Sounds like you are doing a good job. I will be interested in hearing how you like that GFS Mean 90. What are the pot values you are using with that?

I'm using 500k cts pots with a sprague.22 orange drop tone cap. It's what I had leftover from my last project and after doing some research, decided they should work fine. I have a .47 cap too, generic brand, but the genereal consensus is to use the sprague.

If this works out, I might use this as a situational axe onstage and for sure as a change of tone at home and recording.

[otaypanky]

I have a Bombshell Standard Plus made by John Mayes. It's a L.P. Special type and he put Lollar P-90's in it. I'm guessing they're a good bit more than GFS pups but the Lollars sure sound sweet to me and are really touch sensitive

[Tig]

I have a Bombshell Standard Plus made by John Mayes. It's a L.P. Special type and he put Lollar P-90's in it. I'm guessing they're a good bit more than GFS pups but the Lollars sure sound sweet to me and are really touch sensitive

Noitpure has a great Lollar P-90 demo. I'd post it, but U-toob is blocked at work.
For mid to upper level guitars, I'd go with the Lollars without blinking. For 6stringdrug's project, the GFS's will be fine and sound plenty good.

[6stringdrug]

Ok, here are some pictures of the finished project!

back when i got it
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/6stringdrug/IMG_1526.jpg

front when i got it
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/6stringdrug/IMG_1523.jpg

the neck pre work
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/6stringdrug/IMG_1525.jpg

Full frontal finished!
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/6stringdrug/IMG_1538.jpg

front close up
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy302/6stringdrug/IMG_1541.jpg

Ok, sanded the whole thing down to bare wood, filled the multiple holes the kid had drilled for ?????????! used minwax black satin for back and neck, cherry stain and semi gloss poly for top. Cts pots, 500k, sprague orange drop .022uf cap, gfs mean 90 pickup, kluson vintage tuners and gibson wraparound bridge.

Thanks for all the input on the pickups. I am very happy with the mean 90. It is nice and loud, very beefy, except maybe just a bit to squawky on the treble side, nice tone, not sure what i'm gonna use it for yet, only had a couple hours to play on it so far. Because of it being single coil and the very rudimentary wiring, i have some noise throughit, but nothing I cant live with and once i start playing, I can barely hear it. I am picking up a local radio station when the amp and guitar are cranked to full volume, kinda cracks me up a bit. All in all, for less than $80 invested, I am very pleased with the results.

Thanks again fretters!

[Tig]

Wow, that was a much needed Extreme Makeover!
I really like how simple and elegant it is now. Nice work! :thumbsup

[6stringdrug]

Thanks tig! Thats exactly the look I was going for. After having a few days to play and experiment with it, I am loving this axe!!! A real change of tone from my HB equipped axes yet way meaner (no pun intended) than my strat. All told, I have $79.36 invested and about 15 hours of labor. Not too shabby and keeps the piggy bank intact for my next project!! It is a cheap guitar with a tone that belies the investment...I love when that happens!! Thanks for all the input guys!!!

[Heywood Jablomie]

Thanks tig! Thats exactly the look I was going for. After having a few days to play and experiment with it, I am loving this axe!!! A real change of tone from my HB equipped axes yet way meaner (no pun intended) than my strat. All told, I have $79.36 invested and about 15 hours of labor. Not too shabby and keeps the piggy bank intact for my next project!! It is a cheap guitar with a tone that belies the investment...I love when that happens!! Thanks for all the input guys!!!
Ya know, single P90 Juniors are kind like a cult thing. There are a bunch of guys out there that use 'em pretty much all the time. I see a new favorite guitar in your future.....

[DeanEVO_Dude]

The grain on the body is simply striking (in a good way)! Except for that knot on the horn, truly an awesome beauty. Very, very impressed at what it looked like under that solid finish. Thanks for the opinion on the GFS Mean 90, I too, had plans of one day getting a Jr or Special and putting Mean 90s in it... Has not happend... YET. The newest crop of Epi Jrs and Specials IIs are made with mahogany necks and bodies, not the basswood or agathist (sp?) that was used in the past, darn "grainless wonders"... now that MY kind of wood!

[6stringdrug]

Yeah, the knot on the horn is a bit of a takeaway from the grain, but it's growing on me. Kinda like madonna or cindy crawfords mole. It's hard not to stare at it but you ain't gonna kick em outta bed over it!! I think it gives it a little charachter. I was pleasantly surprized to find mahogany under the spray paint, actually made my job easier! It was originally black, before the kid spray painted it, and they had used an obscene amount of grain filler at the factory. Took alot of time and patience to strip it down to usable wood for what I had in mind. It's very gratifying. I like taking these refinished or homemade guitars to my gigs. They get peoples attention for sure. I hear, "wow, never seen a tele like that!" all the time. Hopefully I get the same reaction out of this lil' Jr.! Plus, it sounds good too!

[Duffy]

I like P nineties, but, they sure are noisey when you use a high gain pedal or amp. I have a couple P ninety guitars and like them but they have their limits.

I'm getting so I like my Seymour Duncan JB's and 59s because they are quiet thru high gain rigs. Any good humbucker really. I like the Rockfield's on my MK and the Gibson USA 57's on my Tribute LP, plus a bunch of other good humbuckers on other guitars.

I also like my single coils but they are limited to lower gain level rigs to get a quiet sound. I can't say I like an extreme amount of single coil noise, so I play them with the gain moderated.

Those P nineties can really roar though.

How is the guitar standing up over time? I like that guitar and what you did to it. That natural wood grain looks great. I thought about building one of them Epi LP Jr's up. Do the new electronics sound quiet enough?

Great looking guitar.

[6stringdrug]

Only 3 problems with this guitar. 1. the wraparound bridge does not hold tune very well at first. The ball end of the string needs to be played and wiggled until it sets it the slot. 2. there is no intonation. I will probably buy a badass bridge for it to correct this problem. And, from what I've read, it should solve problem No. 1 as well, because the cut the slots a little bigger for the string ball ends. 3. It only has 1 pickup, a p-90, inherently noisy, but without the second pickup wound in reverse polarity to help cancel hum. My amp isn't set on high gain but I love my tubesceamer and it really howls through that, but noisy as well. Honestly, I knew that going in, and IMHO it's part of the charm of p-90's. As far as parts fitting it went together no problems at all. The kluson tuners I used were a bit bigger than the crappy epi tuners that were on it, so I had to bore out the headstock holes a bit, but other than that, all was good. The kid I bought it from did a number on the finish but at least he didn't jack up the fit of the neck or bridge or mess up the holes for the pots. I actually tried my hand at a sunburst at first but I think my 3 year old could have done a better job. As I was sanding off the failed black of the burst, I really ended up liking the look of all grain on top. I decided against the pickguard for 2 reasons. To save $20 and keep the clean look that was evolving. All that's left is to get an Epiphone logo solkscreened on the headstock and get a new neckplate cut. The original one, the kid had carved his name and "custom" and "wyldefire" (the name of his band) on it. That's it. For the money I have invested it is WELL worth it and I have to have some sort of project going on or I just get too bored! I am going to get my new amp next and then start my first from scratch build, a semihollow, set neck guitar. When I finally get started on that , I'll be sure to post any questions and progress.