Line 6 HD modeling

[Robert]

So Line 6 has some interesting amps coming out. Can't wait to try these things. They spent a lot of time researching. This can be very good stuff, guys!


HD amp models contain up to 10 times more amplifier DNA than our previous modeling. Things like single-ended class A tube stages, class AB push/pull interactions, tone stack, and even power supply behavior were modeled. Every HD model offers dizzying levels of detail, and paints a complete portrait of its modeled brother.

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They are currently selling:
- POD® HD multi-effect pedals and DT-50™ amplifiers are the first Line 6 products to feature HD amp models.

- POD® HD includes the full collection 16 HD amp models, each one more stunning than the last.

- DT50™ amplifiers combine HD modeling technology with flexible analog circuitry to produce the four immortal amp voicings on which all great guitar amplifiers are based.


The following amps were studied during the HD model development*

Bogner® Uberschall
Divided by 13 JRT 9/15
Dr. Z® Route 66
ENGL® Fireball 100
Fender® Bassman®
Fender® Blackface Deluxe Reverb®
Fender® Twin Reverb®
Gibson® EH-185
Hiwatt® Custom 100 (DR103)
Marshall® JCM-800 (2204)
Marshall® JTM-45 MkII
Mesa/Boogie® Dual Rectifier®
Park 75
Supro® S6616
Vox® AC-15
Vox® AC-30 (Top Boost)

Read more at http://line6.com/hd-modeling/

[Eric]

Yeah, I've been reading a little bit about them. They also have a 4-voice EL34 tube amp coming out too I think. I saw a pretty long video on that. It looked neat, but didn't really make me stand up and take notice just yet.

Someone here should buy all of this stuff so that we can get some info on it, yes? Robert? Spud?

[Katastrophe]

Sadly, this'll be waaaaaaaay outta my budget. I do love all this competition in the modeling world. As improvements come down the line, the existing technology will be cheaper, allowing mere mortals to own it.

Only good will come of this. With Bogner involved, I'll bet these amphs will be capable of screaming solos.

[Eric]

I do love all this competition in the modeling world. As improvements come down the line, the existing technology will be cheaper, allowing mere mortals to own it.
Completely agree with this statement. It's the main reason I'm interested in all of the advancements with AxeFX, 11 Rack, Pod HD, etc.

[tochiro]

I think "cheaper" means "made in China" in today's world, and competition has not a lot to do with it.

[deeaa]

Sounds good! I would definitely be interested in testing that stuff!

Much as I applaud simple tube amps I do most of my guitar recordings with modelers anyhow, so I certainly welcome any improvements in the field!

[jpfeifer]

Yes, this new modeling technology looks really good. I can't wait to try one of these, but then I will probably want one. There's so much great stuff out there these days. The options keep growing every year.

[Ch0jin]

Wow! I was blown away by how cool the models are in my pocket POD. (and how cool it is to mix them up! '52 Deluxe Reverb through a '68 Marshall 4x12 w/Greenbacks was todays rig..) I'll bet these new ones will sound amaaaaazing.

(also now thinking how long before they make HD version of the stompbox models too)

[Tig]

I was all ready to go straight to the M9/M13 multi-effects, but now, the POD HD multi-effect pedals may be the way to go!

POD HD Spec's: http://line6.com/podhd/specs.html

The $500 POD HD500 offers up to 8 simultaneous M-class effects and flexible routing, plus a 48-second Looper. POD HD300 and POD HD400 provide up to 4 simultaneous FX and a 24-second Looper.

Check out the amph models:

All POD HD multi-effect pedals include 16 HD amp models based on*
Bogner® Uberschall
Divided by 13 JRT 9/15
Dr. Z® Route 66
ENGL® Fireball 100
Fender® Bassman®
Fender® Blackface Deluxe Reverb®
Fender® Twin Reverb®
Gibson® EH-185
Hiwatt® Custom 100 (DR103)
Marshall® JCM-800 (2204)
Marshall® JTM-45 MkII
Mesa/Boogie® Dual Rectifier®
Park 75
Supro® S6616
Vox® AC-15
Vox® AC-30 (Top Boost)

[Ch0jin]

Big difference in products though.

The M9/M13 units are designed to go in front of a great amp and hence have no amp modelling.

The POD's however have FX, plus amp models and features like mp3 in, headphone out etc.

I see the M9/M13 as tools for rocking out with the band. Live, rehearsals, studio, whatever. I see the POD's (and indeed what I use mine for) as more of an "at home" multi-tool. Recording direct to PC with amp simulations, jamming to backing tracks and cranking up the volume, but into headphones.

I was, and still am skeptical about running amp sims into guitar amps. Yes, I can get some crazy sounds running my pocket POD into my amps, but I prefer to put FX (either real or modeled I guess) into my amp, and amp models (+/- modeled FX) into my PC, my headphones, or on occasion, a Hi-Fi amp.


All that said, I am keen to hear if I can tell the difference between the POD models and the HD models, as plenty of the HD models exist as (what do we call them, SD models?) in my PPOD so there's a good basis for comparison

[Tig]

The POD HD's are using most of the exact effects that the M9/13 have. You can disable the amp modeling or vice-versa.

Think of the new HD's as an M9/13 plus amp modeling, and with warmer and more touch sensitive feel (so they claim).

Also, the M13 can be split up... as in some effects are put before the amp, and some can be run seperately through the amp's effects loop. That is what makes the 13 so cool and flexible. I'll see if the HD 400/500 does the same.

[Ch0jin]

Also, the M13 can be split up... as in some effects are put before the amp, and some can be run seperately through the amp's effects loop. That is what makes the 13 so cool and flexible. I'll see if the HD 400/500 does the same.

I didn't realize that, and that IS proper cool :) (Yes, I'm an FX Loop aficionado)

[Tig]

I didn't realize that, and that IS proper cool :) (Yes, I'm an FX Loop aficionado)

The Tone King review exposed me to that feature...

Here's the tech ibfo and diagram: Line 6 M13 Switching Capabilities (http://thetoneking.com/wp/line6m13switching/)

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[Ch0jin]

Cool thanks for that :) I have a floor full of pedals already, but this thing just looks like so much fun!

[markb]

The 400 (at least) has a global "FX Only" button which disables the amp modelling. Hooray! They also have an output selector like the Boss GTs to tailor the output to what you're plugging into (desk, combo, stack). Looking good so far.

[Eric]

I believe only the 500 has the option to completely disable the cab sims, however. Some people seem to find this to be a major issue, as they want to use their own IRs or something.

I've seen some comparisons between the HD series and Axe FX, and I must say that the HDs compare pretty favorably to the actual amps. Pretty impressive.

[Eric]

Hey Tig, are you ever going to put up a full HD500 review or anything? I'm still pretty curious about the whole thing, but I haven't heard much from you since your mini-review.

[Tig]

Hey Tig, are you ever going to put up a full HD500 review or anything? I'm still pretty curious about the whole thing, but I haven't heard much from you since your mini-review.

I still have too much to learn to give it a proper review. I've been creating patches in the blank memory sections to get a taste of each amp model and most of the effects. While some of the factory patches are silly and useless, there are also some incredible configurations that let you know how capable this thing really is. I wish I had more time to dig deeper, but so far, I'm enjoying it immensely.

[Robert]

I'm getting one soon... ;)

[Tig]

I'm getting one soon... ;)

Since you already know how to make an M9 work, your learning curve will be smaller.

[Eric]

I still have too much to learn to give it a proper review. I've been creating patches in the blank memory sections to get a taste of each amp model and most of the effects. While some of the factory patches are silly and useless, there are also some incredible configurations that let you know how capable this thing really is. I wish I had more time to dig deeper, but so far, I'm enjoying it immensely.
Cool. Keep us in the loop as you figure it out, please!

[Tig]

From a post over at the chickin' pickin' guitar forum that may shed some light on the differences between the 3 models:

I bought the 300, took it back and got the 500. HUGE difference -- not in tone, not in the number of effects, but in programmability. The 300 and 400 seem to be designed for beginners who want to set and forget.

The 500 is for pros who get frustrated with artificial limitations. I think it's interesting that both Line 6 and the sites that are reviewing this product are really soft-pedalling the difference between the models because I think it is enormous. I couldn't do jack squat with the effects in the 300, I can get pretty much any sound I want out of the 500.

The amp modeling is the same in all three units, the biggest difference for me is that the 500 has both the sound and flexibility of the M13 while the other two have the sounds, but not nearly enough programmability to satisfy a pro player. For the extra money ($499 vs. $329 and $399) I'll take the 500 every day of the week.

[markb]

I've discovering that you can download the editing software and run it without the POD connected. It gives a very good idea of what the device is capable of.

[Eric]

I've discovering that you can download the editing software and run it without the POD connected. It gives a very good idea of what the device is capable of.
Run it as a VST plugin for any audio interface or what? I might look into that. I'm more curious than anything.

[markb]

No, Eric, just the software editor. It allows you to see how you can configure the fx chains and what routing options you have. The HD300 is quite limited with only one fx block for all compressors and drives so if you like to kick your distortion with a comp for a smooth solo tone, you're out of luck.

A few minutes playing with the possibilities told me that, should I buy one of these it will be the HD500.

[Jimi75]

I was hoping for a new generation of Line6 Sound. At least I was one of the first persons over here to buy the Felxtone 1 and I still think Line6 did some great pioneer work in the land of modeling. The cleaner amp models like the Blackface etc sound really dynamic and great, but since the 2nd generation of the Felxtone Line6 doesn't manage to create a decent metal sound modeling. Some of the Rectifier models sound like a trucker's horn, the JCM800 is a horrific example of bad modeling according to the sound samples of the POD500HD. You might remember I sold my Flextone III due to the fact that the amph wasn't cutting through the band sound. I have the fear that it might be the same with the HD modeling. As I said, good cleans and some good crunch on the JTM45, but the Metal section purely s**** as always with Line6. I will check the 500 physically at the end of this month, but I can already smell what it will sound like...have been too experienced with Line6 over the past 15 years.
Only my 2cents. :zzz

[Eric]

I was hoping for a new generation of Line6 Sound. At least I was one of the first persons over here to buy the Felxtone 1 and I still think Line6 did some great pioneer work in the land of modeling. The cleaner amp models like the Blackface etc sound really dynamic and great, but since the 2nd generation of the Felxtone Line6 doesn't manage to create a decent metal sound modeling. Some of the Rectifier models sound like a trucker's horn, the JCM800 is a horrific example of bad modeling according to the sound samples of the POD500HD. You might remember I sold my Flextone III due to the fact that the amph wasn't cutting through the band sound. I have the fear that it might be the same with the HD modeling. As I said, good cleans and some good crunch on the JTM45, but the Metal section purely s**** as always with Line6. I will check the 500 physically at the end of this month, but I can already smell what it will sound like...have been too experienced with Line6 over the past 15 years.
Only my 2cents. :zzz
That makes sense -- I've heard complaints in the past about Line 6 modeling in terms of the driven sounds and at high (read: band) volumes.

Since you have first-hand experience with those issues, I'll be interested to hear your take on the HD generation when you try it.

[deeaa]

I think the problem with modelers is the models try to be too good, i.e. they try to sound as guitars do on records not like they sound in real life.

If the drummer plays digital drums and everybody hooks to a nice sounding PA modelers work really well...but when this polished, studio-like sound with all the studio FX like compressors already mixed in tries to compete with raw, hard hitting real drums and screaming amps, no wonder it gets washed out in the mix quite easily.

Anybody who's ever played a Plexi live for instance knows full well it sounds nothing like the line 6 plexi does...it sounds like the said plexi recorded and mixed and EQ'd, which is fine, or even great in many ways and uses, but, not the best choice for rock band necessarily.

We've gotten our guitarist's line 6 to cut thru pretty well now with a speaker change and constanly toning down the FX on the amp...but then it also becomes sadly apparent that once you strip off the FX on these amps, the remaining 'basic' sound isn't necessarily very convincing or good any more.

Maybe the HD line will be better in that. What I'd like to see on this type amps, there should be a switch 'live/studio' which would work in such a way that if you dial in a great sound in 'studio' mode for recording, it would then automatically reduce all FX ratios drastically and apply a different, more midrangey EQ curve to amp speakers when you hit 'live' yet still keep feeding the 'studio' settings to the D/I out.

That would probably work very well for many situations.

[Tig]

I've been downloading user created patches at Line 6's Custom Tone (http://line6.com/customtone/) section. Some patches are questionable or over-volumed, but some are incredible, being much better then the factory presets. Currently for the HD500, there are over 340 patches uploaded, but only 30 for the HD400 and 60 for the HD300! This indicates sales perhaps?

If anyone gets a 500, let me know and I'll point you to some good ones.

[Tig]

You nailed is pretty close, Jimi. The HD's JTM-45 amp model sounds great, but the JCM-800 is questionable unless the gain is set fairly low.