Favorite progressions and scales for improvisation?

[mw13068]

I spent some time yesterday learning how to use my new Boss RC-2 Loop Station pedal, and managed to capture and store a simple G to C loop (a la the solo section in Pink Floyd's "Mother").

I ended up improvising solos in G major for almost an hour solid. It was so much fun!

I've got lots more room for other progressions on my pedal, so here's my question:

What is your favorite progression to solo over, and what scale(s) do you use over it?

[Eric]

I have a loop set up of the chorus from "Black" by Pearl Jam (SUPER simple: D - C - Em) and have been f-ing around with the diatonic tones in the G major scale (not really sure what mode or anything) with good results.

The little hook they do in that song is just B C D C B C B, which is a decent starting point.

I'm curious to hear what other people use/like.

[Fretz]

I have a loop set up of the chorus from "Black" by Pearl Jam (SUPER simple: D - C - Em) and have been f-ing around with the diatonic tones in the G major scale (not really sure what mode or anything) with good results.

The little hook they do in that song is just B C D C B C B, which is a decent starting point.

I'm curious to hear what other people use/like.


Looks like that's a nice 5,4,6 diatonic progression in G , so I think a G major scale would fit pretty well over that one alright, Eric.

I like a nice slow blues, so 1,4,5 progression. And use a combination of maj/min pentatonic and blues scales and try to target the right chord tones.

I also like a 1,3,4,4min progression. I mostly use the mojor scale for this and also try to target chord tones. Some won't be part of the scale.

[R_of_G]

A current favorite of mine, heavily influenced by Ribot's work in John Zorn's Masada projects, is a simple progression from Em > Am > D > C over which I improvise using a scale called "Magen Abot" (a hebrew scale) which in E uses the notes E, F, G, G#, A#, C, D#. The possibilties are endless.

I've taught the progression separately to my bass-playing neighbor and my rhythm guitar-playing friend, both of which led to rather fun jams. Now I am trying to find a time to get them both together.

[mw13068]

Cool. These are exactly the sort of suggestions I was looking for. Who else has a favorite?

[marnold]

I've never done anything more clever than I-IV-V. Yeah, I'm boring like that. And unskilled like that.

[mw13068]

I've never done anything more clever than I-IV-V. Yeah, I'm boring like that. And unskilled like that.

Ha! I'm in the same boat, and have been for way too long. I think it's time for me to step beyond minor pentatonic. Even playing in G major was refreshing.

[woodchuk]

If I want to get really basic, I'll play a I-V-vi-IV (Matchbox 20's "Push") or I-V-ii-IV (Def Leppard's "Run Riot"). For a little twist, a I-iii-IV-bVII9 (a la Buckcherry's "For the Movies") works pretty well. I've always liked songs that use the iv, too - though they are slightly trickier to find ("Bad Day" by Fuel, "Ten Years Gone" by Led Zeppelin for example). Of course, there's the good old i-V7-VII-IV9-bVI-III-ivmin7-V7 ("Hotel California" by the Eagles) to give you practice for natural, harmonic, and melodic minor all in the same progression. There's something about a I-II sequence for that Phrygian Dominant sound that I really like as well. I'll think of some more later.

Good thread!

[Tig]

I usually ignore intentional structured scales and fly by the seat of my pants, but that isn't easy when playing blues.
However, I also enjoy following Frank Zappa's Variation On The Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression. :rotflmao: :bravo:
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[mw13068]

Frank Zappa's Variation On The Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression

That's an awesome song. The funky sound drew my wife in from another room to watch it.

I gotta hear more FZ.

It also made me want to build a yellow strat... uh oh.

[Ch0jin]

I also have much love for the RC-2.

If you ever want to make a stop/tap tempo switch for it lemme know. It's dead simple, but I'd say 75% of the ones I've seen on youtube and ebay are made wrong. I actually made the full two button which includes "phrase up" but that justs serves to infuriate me that I cant also do "phrase down". The stop button is cool though, you can start with one tap of the pedal and stop with one tap of the external switch.

I don't know that I have a favorite chord progression though, honestly I usually just mess about with chords and patterns till i hear something that sounds "jammable" then jump on the start button. Usually it ends up being some variation of i iv v though with either straight pentatonic or blues scale soloing. I've been learning the harmonic minor scale recently though so my latest jams have been trying to find chords that go with that whole middle eastern feel.

I do find myself filling up those 10 memory spots quickly though. I must stop using it to store song ideas and use something else for that.

[Eric]

A current favorite of mine, heavily influenced by Ribot's work in John Zorn's Masada projects, is a simple progression from Em > Am > D > C over which I improvise using a scale called "Magen Abot" (a Hebrew scale) which in E uses the notes E, F, G, G#, A#, C, D#. The possibilities are endless.
I looked this up, and I think there's a D in there too.

[R_of_G]

I looked this up, and I think there's a D in there too.

Thanks for catching that. There is definitely a D in there.

[deeaa]

Times like these I feel like the most incompetent guitarist in the world.

I really should get me a looper and practice a little.

I don't have a clue what my scales are, and never thought of what chords I'd play them over. I just make up a song and then play over it by the ear. I understand my scales in songs are usually mostly resembling the basic 'pentatonic extended scale' with some half-steps added here and there - I don't understand this minor/major stuff really - or then some 'mixolydian' or whatever - I've eyed some scales sometime in a magazine and some of those are vaguely like what I end up using often. Same with chords - now with 'chord finder' apps on the net I can actually find out what my chords are in my songs, usually some weird '#Gadd7sus9' or whatever.

I don't either really know where the notes are on the guitar, I know the basic chord names and, like, if it's in G I can play along the 15th fret to start with an get in the ballpark...but, I never practice or play leads, they're always kinda ex tempore by-the ear things _except_ for leads I play for my live band - those I've 'composed' and usually play quite similarly every time. Not exactly but closely to same every time.

But, that's the reason I always state I'm no lead player when I post something with lead playing on it..because I always worry maybe it's not very orthodox or whatever, wrong notes or something, simply because all this 'minor major progression harmonic IV diatonic' is completely chinese to me.

However, I just painted ABCDEFG on my MIDI keyboard keys, so in the future I can now actually verify with the keyboard what note i'm playing or the song key. Although I don't really know how do you determine the song key?

Oh well. I didn't need the info before, so I guess I'll just plod on the same as usual...

[Ch0jin]

I don't have a clue what my scales are, and never thought of what chords I'd play them over. I just make up a song and then play over it by the ear.

The reason I find knowing scales and how to play them in different keys really helpful is mostly for jamming. Almost always the guys I jam with are far more accomplished than me, but being able to say "hey what key is that?" and get a baseline on where to start noodling makes all the difference. Before that I used to try and watch where their fingers were and try and play notes in the same area, but that was -really- hit and miss for me.



...I don't either really know where the notes are on the guitar...

Knowing the notes on even one string will help immensely if you learn scales.

By the way, I didn't learn scales by notes, I learned by finger patterns, and by learning the notes on the E string. For example, my fingers know that one way to play the pentatonic scale is to find the note on the E string, so for G that'd be 3rd fret, and put my first finger there. From there it's just (in finger terms) 1st 4th, 1st 3rd, 1st 3rd, 1st 3rd, 1st 4th, 1st 4th. Tada, if you know that pattern, and the notes on the E string, you can jam in any key. I know the rest of the patterns now as well, but that was my first breakthrough. The second was actually watching a video about single string scales. I think it might have been one of Robert's, but I'm not sure. Again it's about patterns for me more than learning each note. I practiced the scale patterns, then applied those patterns to playing a scale on one string, then 2 strings. All of a sudden my left hand felt like it was unlocked and I could start to buzz about all over the fretboard linking up all the patterns. You can do all that only knowing the notes on the E string.



all this 'minor major progression harmonic IV diatonic' is completely chinese to me.

Actually I think you'll find it's Latin ;)



However, I just painted ABCDEFG on my MIDI keyboard keys...

I have somewhere a larger than life size chart I made in excel 15 odd years ago that has fret markers and all the notes on it. I used to have it stuck to the front of my amp so I could always look at while practicing. Very helpful.

On the same kinda topic, I was checking out the new range of Fretlight (http://www.fretlight.com/guitars/vintage/) guitars yesterday. I kinda want one now. Imagine having any scale you like lit up directly on the fretboard! No more books and printouts reading scales of the net. It's almost too easy! Plus that Jazzmaster with P90's looks so cool.

[deeaa]

By the way, I didn't learn scales by notes, I learned by finger patterns, and by learning the notes on the E string. For example, my fingers know that one way to play the pentatonic scale is to find the note on the E string, so for G that'd be 3rd fret, and put my first finger there. From there it's just (in finger terms) 1st 4th, 1st 3rd, 1st 3rd, 1st 3rd, 1st 4th, 1st 4th. Tada, if you know that pattern, and the notes on the E string, you can jam in any key. I know the rest of the patterns now as well, but that was my first breakthrough. The second was actually watching a video about single string scales. I think it might have been one of Robert's, but I'm not sure. Again it's about patterns for me more than learning each note. I practiced the scale patterns, then applied those patterns to playing a scale on one string, then 2 strings. All of a sudden my left hand felt like it was unlocked and I could start to buzz about all over the fretboard linking up all the patterns. You can do all that only knowing the notes on the E string.


Yep this is how I do it basically...I don't know the names of the notes or such, but I can jam for hours over, say normal blues progressions and all over the neck no problem...the fingers remember how the scales work, and the rest is just going to either direction, or add a 1/2 up or down based on feeling and ear, then. But, I mean, I can hit an E and start from low E string open and rip a riff going thru all strings and up the fretboard all the time no problem.

It's when the base chords change surprisingly I get in trouble. Like when it's C and D for instance, I easily get lost on what to play if I attempt any more than, say a half a dozen 'safe' notes around that area.

[kiteman]

Em-D-C-Bm

Is that in G major or E minor? :dance

[Eric]

Times like these I feel like the most incompetent guitarist in the world.

...

Oh well. I didn't need the info before, so I guess I'll just plod on the same as usual...
I don't know. The thing is, anyone who would hear the two of us could instantly tell that you're the better guitarist. You might not know the details of why you play what you play, but that doesn't change the fact that you still know how to play.

The only reason I (or most people, I think) know any theory is because sometimes notes don't sound right and sometimes they sound amazingly great, and it drives me crazy because I don't know why that happens. My solution was to try to know more and more about theory in the interest of understanding that way. It doesn't make me a better guitarist or musician, however.

So in theory (pun intended), knowing more about scales would allow you to do more and have more control over the sounds you get out of the guitar, but you still have to be comfortable enough with the instrument to be able to use that knowledge.

So don't feel bad. :)

[Eric]

Em-D-C-Bm

Is that in G major or E minor? :dance
AFAIK, E minor.

[mw13068]

Times like these I feel like the most incompetent guitarist in the world.

...

Oh well. I didn't need the info before, so I guess I'll just plod on the same as usual...

In my case, I have to try to make up for lack of natural talent with study and repetition. I've been playing the same tired phrases for years, and it bores me, which makes me stop playing.

So, the loop pedal, and some new progressions and scales will give me something to concentrate on.

I envy folks can "just do it".

[Commodore 64]

E A B
E7 A7 B7

12 bar blues style, 4/4:

E|E|E|E
A|A|E|E
B|A|E|E(or B7)

Lay that track down on your looper. Super easy, you can do it with your index finger alone (except for the B, you'll need your ring finger for the power chord). If you want to get really funky you can shuffle with your pinky to spruce it up.

[Eric]

A current favorite of mine, heavily influenced by Ribot's work in John Zorn's Masada projects, is a simple progression from Em > Am > D > C over which I improvise using a scale called "Magen Abot" (a hebrew scale) which in E uses the notes E, F, G, G#, A#, C, D#. The possibilties are endless.

I've taught the progression separately to my bass-playing neighbor and my rhythm guitar-playing friend, both of which led to rather fun jams. Now I am trying to find a time to get them both together.
That's a nice, sorrowful chord progression, at least the way I was playing it just now. However, I couldn't get the scale to sound like anything resembling music.

[Ch0jin]

E A B
E7 A7 B7

12 bar blues style, 4/4:

E|E|E|E
A|A|E|E
B|A|E|E(or B7)

Lay that track down on your looper. Super easy, you can do it with your index finger alone (except for the B, you'll need your ring finger for the power chord). If you want to get really funky you can shuffle with your pinky to spruce it up.

How do you play an E with one finger? I assume your pressing your index finger across three strings for an open chord A, but the E?

O wait, you're talking about an E power chord (E5?) maybe. So index finger on 2nd fret 2nd string right?

[Eric]

O wait, you're talking about an E power chord (E5?) maybe. So index finger on 2nd fret 2nd string right?
Yup, I'm 90% sure he's talking about an E power chord, so it would be the index finger on the 2nd fret of the A and D strings, and you'd end up playing

E x
B x
G x
D 2
A 2
E 0

[Commodore 64]

yeah, what eric said. It's much easier to shuffle that way. Or even bust out the rhythm for Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress.

[R_of_G]

That's a nice, sorrowful chord progression, at least the way I was playing it just now. However, I couldn't get the scale to sound like anything resembling music.

Perhaps hearing a bit of Zorn's Masada projects might help to illustrate a bit of the versatility of the scale. These are not all entirely in Magen Abot, but it is used heavily along with a few other hebrew scales for these projects which are a rather large inspiration on what/how I play.

The Dreamers - Tirtael

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Bar Kokhba - Gevurah

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Marc Ribot - Raziel

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Secret Chiefs 3 - Asron

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Masada - Beeroth

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Electric Masada - Karaim (split into 2 videos)

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Masada String Trio - Meholalot

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Rashanim -Atbash

(This one is not a Zorn composition, but he has used Rashanim to record at least one Masada project, the awesome "Masada Rock." They also make excellent use of the hebrew scales in a "power trio" format.)

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