Why an iMac?

[Jimi75]

Hey folks,

I consider buying a new computer. Mine has almost reached the 10 year mark and I face certain limitations when I work and apply multiple plug ins. As most of you know I am constantly producing an preproducing music and I have to have a system that works so that my clients get the best result possible.

I asked some friends of mine and they split into two camps. There are the ones that say, never change a running system, buy a new pc, configure it yourself, it's way cheaper and as capable as an iMac. Bear in mind that you will have to buy a lot of stuff again (software for e.g.) and you can not apply VST plug ins. Also the keyboard and mouse are battery eating monsters...

Then there are the others that say that recording and arranging get more easier - they are convinced that musicians should onw a Mac (a positiv predjudice???). The use of the Mac is self explanatory and so my wife and kids will have an easier access. Some say that the display alone would cost as much as a new PC. All of my friends who own a Mac don't use it to record music. They just enjoy the technology and things like iphoto.

I am totally confused right now.
Could you shed some light on this matter for me. I know that we have some forumers that know both systems and that can give detailled info on recording music with both sytems.

[otaypanky]

Although there was a time in the mid 90's when I thought I would never own a computer, now I couldn't imagine living without one. For years I plodded along with a pc, owning a number of Gateway+ HP desk tops and maybe 3 IBM and Lenovo laptops. I remember spending hours trying to get rid of trojan horses and viruses, downloading spyware and anti-virus programs, searching for help, defragmenting, clearing out temporary files, etc. One IBM laptop was even rendered useless after being infected.
Three years ago I bought an iMac. It's been a trouble free three years. Everything is intuitively designed, at least to me. I love it. When it came time to replace my laptop a year ago I went with a Macbook Pro, again, just awesome.

[wingsdad]

I hope our Mac-Mavens can shed some light on this, Jimi, because I'm fearing my 7-yr old pc, while running nicely w/o issues (Win XP, SP-3) will just take a physical dump any day now w/o warning. I don't use the 'puter for recording though...always wary of the need for constant updating, software upgrades, etc....just not my old school head's bag.

But I have used a Mac at work for several years and understand the advantages as a graphics machine and creative tool. So I've been shopping either an iMac OR a Mac Mini...just the little box CPU that can take my current monitor, keyboard and mouse and work fine...that's the rig on my desk at work...a generic brand LCD monitor, a Dell PC keyboard (just had to learn the keys' equivalent to Apple's versions of them) and a Microsoft optical mouse, all USB wired to the Mini. The MIni goes for about $700 US vs. the cheapest iMac all-in-one with wireless keyboard & mouse for $1,200.

[Robert]

For me, it's just plain less hassle, which results in more fun to use and better performance. My Mac always works without hiccups. All my PCs have had issues with malware, viruses, trojan horses and other crap that messed up the system so that reinstalling and cleaning the operating system happened more than once. It's never happened with my Mac, which is getter 3 years old soon. It still runs as fast as when I bought it.

Macs also come with a lot of good software. GarageBand is very capable and free with your Mac. If you buy recording software, Logic Studio is incredible. Logic Express and Final Cut Express are fairly inexpensive but very, very good. iWork and iLife are great too.

See this picture - http://thenextweb.com/apple/files/2010/09/WhyYouShouldBuyaMac11.jpg

[deeaa]

I'm sure it's true that windows machines need a little more understanding of computer technologies in general, and will possibly present big problems for less technically able people, and Macs can be simpler to work with.

This is wayyy different now, however, compared to past...only a few years back PC's by and large were shoddily made and drivers whatever, and Xp required a lot of work and TLC. Besides, very often people when building/buying PC's bought the cheapest possible crap, so no wonder they gave problems.

It's way better now along with w7, but there are still some things you need to know how to arrange. Ok you get viruskillers and spyware cleaners free from Microsoft, but you still need to install them manually.

I'm a Windows man myself, for simple reasons. I need to know how things work and make them work like I want them to work.

My friend used an iMac of some sort, mainly for music, and talked about how easy and nice it was. I spent a while on his machine and tested out some programs, and seemed to me there were many many things missing on the machine he'd used before on PC. I asked about them and he shrugged - they're so expensive to get on Mac. But I've learnt to live without them OK?!?

Then one day his harddisk died. He asked me to help but I had no idea what to do to get his work back. He didn't. Sent the whole machine away for a few weeks(!) Got a new HD and now he backs up to an external one. BUT he's not quite sure what backs up and what not, as he doesn't really know where the data is physically for what subsystem.

I hate that kind of thing. I just lost a HD due to a failure. So, it took me 20 minutes to get the windows back online and I lost _nothing_ except a few latest mix settings I had done over the summer and had only kept in a temp folder. It still was a pain, but all the data was there. Basically, I still have like configs and stuff from like 1997 there if I need 'em.

That's because I keep, like, say VST plugin presets on a completely different drive than my system. I keep a system image on one disk, and all datas on their respective disks or partitions. If I lose any of my disks, I don't need to restore the entire system but just the missing partition. On one partition I keep installation files of almost everything. So if I need to reinstall, say Cubase or Office or whatever, I don't need to go get the actual disks, just run the installer off the storage HD. Some programs won't let you do that officially, but on a PC system you can find a 'crack' or a loophole for anything and tweak stuff to work like you want to.

I don't know if building a win 7 system gets much cheaper than a mac system, if you use same quality parts, but this I know: you never have to swap the entire machine if you don't want to. I haven't bought a PC since, I dunno, the nineties. I just upgrade components and OS'es every now and then.

Currently my mobo is nearly 4 years old, HD's range from less than 1 to 2 years (I usually sell of HD's over 3 years old and buy new ones) and all the other components something in between. The case is maybe 6 years old. One power supply is quite old at 6 years like the case but the other is only 3 or so.

Anyway. My experience of current macs is shallow. Still, as I've mentioned before, I currently have five...no, since of today, six soundcards from different manufacturers on my system. Would that work in a mac? If you plug in a Stealth Pedal for instance, will Mac OS allow you to run it separately in its own ASIO system and record to another card's ASIO? Somehow I doubt it. Might be wrong.

But, deep down I just hate the Apple approach in many ways. Like I just asked Apple's Services how much for swapping the screen on my almost new iPod and they said it costs about twice the price of a new one plus you won't get your own device/data as replacement necessarily, so forget it. What the hell is the service even for with that kind of an approach?

If I buy a car, I don't want to be locked into having to use their maintenance etc, I want to be able to change the oils etc. myself or have it done anywhere, and not lose warranty etc. It just irks me to no end when companies basically just say you have to use our products like this and no other way, or don't use it.

There's some of that in PC world for instance, with all kinds of automatic update thingies (well Apple's iTunes and Quiktime one of the worst viruses around), but I edit them out of the system and stop them from working.

Even when I install programs I've bought I don't let them install to main drive, or contact the company automatically upon install, but rather handle the registration etc. manually.

[sunvalleylaw]

I will not tell you which one to buy as I suppose there are many that like the open nature and tweakability or do it yourself aspects of PCs and also the price point. For myself, I would choose an iMac such as I am typing on now.

History: I owned an original mac which I got when in college.

See ad that announced the first Mac here:

HhsWzJo2sN4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhsWzJo2sN4

I purchased it before the ad came out as part of a special college student purchase deal.

I had worked on some other computers then. As compared to my friends PC ATs etc. of the time, it was just easier to get things done on. I used PCs in law school as a law review editor and student. I lost a bunch of work when a PC crashed and went back to using my 3 year old Mac. Bottom line, It just was easier to get things done on

I went out in the work force first as a judicial clerk and got a newer Mac to do my writing. Got a copy of Word. It worked well. Bottom line, easier to get my work done. (Catch the theme?). Why? At that time the user interface was still quite different than the PCs of the day. Windows did not exist yet. Also, Word was easier to work in.

Went out in the private work force and in offices. Those were PC environments. Did computer based research on Westlaw "WALT" terminals, and other stuff on PCs. it worked ok, but the office would have issues with its network or the printer driver or whatever. It was frankly easier to get my work done on my own machine. So I often did.

Went out on my own. Looked at PCs, but got a Mac Performa (budget mac in the mid 90s, the dark days of Apple.). But it worked fine! Had a good calendar, word processing, internet, all the stuff I needed. I did not need PC programs that did not run on Macs. And again, it was just easier. Windows 95 was brand new and pretty cool, but the Mac OS was still just easier for me and less clunky. Also, I continued to see other offices need tech support, while I did not. I was a small office and did not need to get a big system like a large office. So again, my Mac made it easier for me to get things done.

I have had a Mac and run my office on it ever since. The newer iMacs are incredible values when you consider what comes included. I can run Windows (I tend to run XP Pro when I need to) and it will run the one specialty program I need just fine. It allows me to communicate and work with a paralegal on a different OS, and is less vulnerable to viruses. I run Windows in emulation because if I booted in Windows, as I could, my machine would be just as vulnerable as any PC. When emulating, it is still a Mac. I tried Vista, and it was a nightmare. I went back to XP pro. I understand people like Windows 7 but since XP pro does what I need, I have no reason to try it or buy it at this time, even to emulate on my machine. It is only for my bankruptcy software that I even need to use Windows. There are Mac bankruptcy programs, but my outsourced paralegal uses this PC program. So with a simple emulation, I can too.

I love the native calendar, the Mail program, the word processing and document programs, and of course the creative suite of programs that come with the machine. (Garageband, iPhoto, iMovie, etc.) I also love how it works with my iPhone.

So bottom line, for a family or small office, a Mac makes it easier to get things done and is a great value. Since I don't like to fiddle with computers, I don't miss that. I like to turn them on, ignore the manuals and start doing what I want to do. Garageband, iMovie, iPhoto, etc., allows me to do that for my creative pursuits without having to go to a class, and I can do my business stuff just fine. That is why for me.

If you like to take things apart, reprogram things, fiddle with things etc., a Mac may not be what you want. If you want a good strong machine that allows you to do your stuff, I think it is a good way to go.

[R_of_G]

Rather than rephrase what's already been said by the other Mac users, let me just say that as a Mac owner myself, I agree with all the points they've made.

[SuperSwede]

I´ve been a Mac user since 1998 and I´m loving it! I use Garageband , Logic and Cubase and have a bunch of nice plug ins for those apps. I´m already on my 6th Mac, a iMac (2009) and it works brilliant for all my needs and my wifes photo stuff. Most Macs are built of top notch materials and parts and usually last longer than you want it to (hey it IS fun to buy a new computer once in a while). The software suite iLife (free with every Mac) is amazing, especially Garageband and iPhoto.

[sunvalleylaw]

I will say that unfortunately, Macs, while better built than most, can have a hard drive crash like any computer. So a good external hard drive is a good idea. Macs have an excellent backup program called "Time Machine" that is very good and very user friendly. So even though they are built well, one should always back up their work and creativity.

[marnold]

It basically comes down to two questions:
1) What do you want to do?
2) What's your budget?

Macs may be simpler to use (although there is a learning curve), but with a PC you'll get a lot more bang for your buck. Even though I poke at MS all I can, finally, it doesn't matter what OS you operate. Using a Mac or even Linux won't save you from something nefarious. You need to follow best practices at all time, especially with keeping the system up-to-date will all the patches. Being behind a hardware firewall (viz, a router) helps too.

I personally went to Linux to get off the constant Windows upgrade treadmill and the costs associated with it. I know computers and how everything works well enough that I'm more than happy to pay with my time rather than with my cash. From a philosophical standpoint, I hate how both MS and Apple (although Apple to a far greater extent) tries to lock you in and limit what you can do with your own stuff. I also don't have a ton of free cash so I can't justify paying substantially more for the same amount of hardware power.

Practically, I'd look at software solutions on both sides to see how they would fit your needs. If everything is equal on the software side, go with a PC and save some cash. If the Mac version of the software is much easier to set up and use, go that way. It's easier to look at things from a task-oriented standpoint than an OS one. That should (in a perfect world) be irrelevant.

[ibanezjunkie]

< Mac user for a while now

i love my mac for music especially, there are alot more capable audiovisual utilities out there for the mac than you might think. the added stability of the OS and the huge potential using things like MIDI and the very good line-in quality help me out alot.

short little 'my 2 cents' here.

oh and also, just to put it out there. Ubuntu has proven itself to be a good media platform recently too. Even running on my old-*** Compaq D530 it can produce some nice recordings.

[deeaa]

Good post Marnold.

Ibanezjunkie: stability is hardly a problem these days with any OS. I installed w7, hm, a year ago or so, and it hasn't ever flinched. Except I when lost a drive...but all in all, not once it's kicked its heels up. A few times some 3rd party software pieces or such have crashed but the system always stays stable.

[markb]

Windows got better but the boxes are still just ugly :) Also I can record acoustic instruments in a 3x4m room with my Mac Mini sitting on the desk next to me. If only they'd move the airport :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Justaguyin_nc]

It breaks down to PC's are much cheaper and can run alot of Games, more main stream games. If your into games or think you might want some later get a quadcore AMD(cheaper and as good as intel) PC with windows7. running in the 3.0 ghz range with a good video card(460 nvidia anything or better). xp=directx9, vista=directx10 and win7=directx11 which is the graphics engine in windows and sound.. the 400 series and up of nvidia cards support directx11..the lesser may not.

Other than that, they are basicly the same. The trouble with the PC market is so much is available. Windows 7 works as good or better than anything else out there. All your virus checkers etc are included for download free from MS.

The trouble with the MAC Market, Less game oriented but improving. that's about it..

[marnold]

Windows got better but the boxes are still just ugly :) Also I can record acoustic instruments in a 3x4m room with my Mac Mini sitting on the desk next to me. If only they'd move the airport :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Actually my black case looks like some kind of skunk works thing. The front case fan has a sweet blue LED in it too. Too bad I practically have to lie on the floor to see it :)

[markb]

Actually my black case looks like some kind of skunk works thing. The front case fan has a sweet blue LED in it too. Too bad I practically have to lie on the floor to see it :)

Here's today's spot the computer competition... ;)

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs388.ash2/66649_455533468838_789188838_5422884_7524377_n.jpg

[Jimi75]

Folks, I thank you very much for so much effort and input! It's great!

Here are some more points after reading the posts.

What do I want to do:
1. Recording music
2. Video & Photo Editing
3. I never play games on the computer. Am not a gamer.
4. Surfing the internet

Budget = enough to get a 27" iMac

Important thing to be clarified:
What about my hardware like for e.g. my Midi keyboard and my Line6 Toneport. I only have a MS driver cd. Will a Mac acknowledge these machines without problems? I know I am going to lose my NI Bandstand software, but this I could stand.

[Jipes]

Folks, I thank you very much for so much effort and input! It's great!

Here are some more points after reading the posts.

What do I want to do:
1. Recording music
2. Video & Photo Editing
3. I never play games on the computer. Am not a gamer.
4. Surfing the internet

Budget = enough to get a 27" iMac

Important thing to be clarified:
What about my hardware like for e.g. my Midi keyboard and my Line6 Toneport. I only have a MS driver cd. Will a Mac acknowledge these machines without problems? I know I am going to lose my NI Bandstand software, but this I could stand.

For the first two points I would recommend you a Mac (I've been working with them since my PHD writings).

Garage Band is easy to use and contains an intuitive interface and is free. Your Tone port will surely be recognized by GB I use a Pro Tools mBox without worries (Mac have a Core Audio compatible)

For photo edition free program is iPhoto which has been greatly improved, if you need more power go for Aperture.

As for video editing I did prepared videos since more than 10yeras with the iMovie program and it's easy to cut and paste as wel as adding titles and fancy transitions. It is now also easy to export to the conventional Youtube or Daily motion platforms.

To be honest I also never play games on the computer :thumbsup

[Ch0jin]

I recently went through a similar thought process when my last laptop died. I thought about building a desktop PC Vs a 27"imac The iMac just looks so damn sexy compared to my current display (2x17" LCD's).

However when I broke it down to "bang for buck" I kept my 17" screens and built a new PC.

It's all been covered in previous posts and it's really a matter of personal taste these days. Mac have the design aesthetic down better than anyone I can think of. They make hardware and software you just -want- to interact with. PC's are (generally speaking) less sexy, and a lot less intuitive, but offer a far superior price/performance ratio.

I do a fair bit of photo editing using PS CS4, and CPU power, HDD access times and RAM speed/quantity all seem to help improve PS performance so I decided, after some wrangling, that I'd be better off maximizing performance for my budget rather than the compromise I perceive an iMac to be in this regard.

FWIW i'm now packing an i5 760 (quad 2.8GHz), 4GB DDR3, 1TB WDC Black with a GTS450 and Win7 x64. By no means a high end spec, but everything just screams now compared to my old laptop, and it's quieter than my laptop!!!

[SuperSwede]

Jimi, Bandstand can also be installed as a plugin (audio units) which works with mac.

[sunvalleylaw]

Folks, I thank you very much for so much effort and input! It's great!

Here are some more points after reading the posts.

What do I want to do:
1. Recording music
2. Video & Photo Editing
3. I never play games on the computer. Am not a gamer.
4. Surfing the internet

Budget = enough to get a 27" iMac

Important thing to be clarified:
What about my hardware like for e.g. my Midi keyboard and my Line6 Toneport. I only have a MS driver cd. Will a Mac acknowledge these machines without problems? I know I am going to lose my NI Bandstand software, but this I could stand.

You might have the budget for a 27 inch iMac, but I personally think the 21.5 is plenty big, and you could use the difference at least in part maximizing the RAM and have money left over as compared to getting the extra large screen. Your needs sound perfect for an iMac. I use the Toneport UX2 with no problems. Line6 has drivers on their site. http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-1886

Your Midi keyboard can be connected by a USB to Midi Adapter and should not be a problem. You may need to download a new driver. Should not be a problem. What kind of keyboard is it?

[Jimi75]

Is it too much if I say I love you guys....

@SVL:
That's some real good information.
Actually I was about to check the 21,5", because 27" is huge and I do not think I'd need that huge screen. I use a Midistart-3 Pro Keys Midi keyboard, connected via USB. Shouldn't be a prob though...

It's cool that I could keep Bandstand and that Line6 offer the Mac driver.

I will let you guys know about my impressions. Hopefully the guy at the store gives me enough time to check.

Thanks again! :applause

[deeaa]

Nonononono!

Don't get the small screen! There's NO substitute for a proper large screen.
I'm running a 21" 1600x1200 and a 19" 1280x1024 side by side and not a day goes by I don't wish I had a bigger screen, can't fit anything on these and I have to squint to see smaller detail.

As soon as I get some extra income, I'm getting a 32" full-HD screen as my main monitor AND still use the 21" and 19" on the side. I just need another adaptor to get 3 monitors.