Weird.

[hubberjub]

http://crystalfrets.com/

[duhvoodooman]

I can't find a single price listed on that site. Based upon my experience with a couple of business dinners at restaurants with no prices on their menu, that's a BAD THING....

[Ch0jin]

I'm with DVM on the lack of pricing being a concern. However, they do look amazingly cool and the zero fret wear aspect is also appealing.

I suspect that seeing as though you'd need all kinds of fancy diamond coated tools to work them, they are going to be wayyyyyyy expensive.

[Spudman]

I just spent some time on the phone with Emilio and have the lowdown on Crystal Frets.

This initially started when a Russian guy's girlfriend wanted to put diamond fret markers on his guitar. Erich Stone, an artist, created the frets from an extremely hard quartz instead. Erich doesn't play guitar, but was able to make the frets perfectly, install and crown them, and thus Crystal Frets was born.

They are 3 years old now and have received a patent that will last for 20 years.

Bob Weir is currently playing a Les Paul equipped with Crystal Frets that was originally intended for Warren Haynes. When Bob checked the guitar out he just had to have it.

The company is located in Denver Colorado. There will soon be a documentary film done about Crystal Frets. According to Emilio, "this is a game changer." They are making history with this new development.

They are in talks with several high profile guitarists (all your heroes basically) I was sworn to secrecy to do frets for them. They are also working with some companies that produce high end fretted instruments.

It's a very intense process to create the frets because of the hardness of the material which is close to diamond in hardness. So yes, it's going to cost some money.

It significantly changes the sound of the notes on the guitar in a good way. "More hi-fi" was how it was explained to me. Even non musicians notice the difference in the quality of the sound. They have applied this process to a variety of guitars of all price levels and the results have been outstanding on them all.

Right now the company is still in the R&D phase and is accepting orders to have guitars done. It ain't cheap! Think of it as jewelry for your guitar. Got a custom made beauty that you are in love with? This takes it to the next level. Guitars that are done now get a certificate of authenticity which, in the future, will ensure that your investment will pay you back many fold. Similar to owning a 56 LP would.

They are accessible now to us mere mortals, but in the future that may change. Although, it was mentioned that after the manufacturing processes get figured out they will be more affordable. The early jobs are going to be worth a lot of money in the future. Considering the job now runs around 7K there better be a good return on investment.

We may be seeing the beginning of something really exciting for the future of fretted instruments...and you heard it here first.

[oldguy]

It looks interesting, for sure. Although I couldn't (wouldn't) afford something that expensive, I'd like to play different guitars (LP, Strat, Tele, 335) with those installed to see if it made a huge difference to my ears. I'm on the fence right now deciding if it's a revolution, or snake oil. Stainless steel frets are supposed to wear very little, but some claim they are hard on string life.
Another thing I wonder about is whether the metal-to-metal "distortion" that is eliminated with these frets is actually a desirable factor in obtaining the tone we sometimes chase. I'll keep an open mind, and follow up on these, for sure. :AOK

[player]

the way I read this is there is no metal on metal or meal to metal.
they are 100% pure quartz crystals , the need for replacement frets comes to an end. Metal can never wear down the frets; only diamonds can cut and polish these stones.

With quartz crystal frets, you get clear tone and extended sustain, because the density of the quartz keeps the string’s vibrational energy from going through or around the fret, where that energy would be lost. The string follows the the same molecular structure as the quartz, a single helix pattern that makes the string fully tunable, only in RPS. This not only boosts the sustain, it produces a warmer, fuller, more powerful sound, that makes a stock metal fret guitar sound flat.

don't think I'm wrong on this but still an expensive deal unless you know someone that dresses frets and are willing to undertake this as a project,
naturally one would be expected to provide the quartz though.

[duhvoodooman]

OK, call me cynical (nearly 60 years on this planet will do that to ya!), but so far, all these glowing reports full of superlatives are coming from the guys who hope to become millionaires selling them! Not saying this might not all turn out to be true, but:


I'd like to see an impartial reviewer's impressions.
I'm concerned that "all my hereos" might be the only people who can afford them!
The other thing I'd be concerned about is durability, specifically to repeated impact. Quartz is indeed very hard. It's also very brittle/inelastic. How long before these frets have all kinds of little chips and divots out of them?

[Robert]

I'm skeptical. I'll just stick to my stainless steel frets instead... ;)

[rylanmartin]

Nobody made this big of a deal when I patented frets made out of Nerf...

[Ch0jin]

Nobody made this big of a deal when I patented frets made out of Nerf...

rightly so :)

[Spudman]

The other thing I'd be concerned about is durability, specifically to repeated impact. Quartz is indeed very hard. It's also very brittle/inelastic. How long before these frets have all kinds of little chips and divots out of them?

Well you don't toss your diamonds around do you? ;) Or do you? :cool:

Yes, impacts would have the most damaging effect. Regular playing however, wont. They are intending this initially to probably go on a $15K or above guitar. There are plenty of guitars being bought at that level, these frets will just up the "art value" quite a bit, and also from the connoisseur player's perspective "improve the sound."

Apparently they have installed these on some low end guitars, Squiers and Epiphones, and it made a huge difference. It better for that kind of money.

I don't think this is going to be intended for the average player. It's going to probably be for those guys that collect guitars and play or are stars, or just have a bunch of money to toss around.

Bare in mind that there is a push within the company to improve the production methods to get the price down. But for now it is a luxury item and should be thought of as such. They are courting some very wealthy investors so that they have the capital to improve the production. Right now it's a work of art. When it becomes a paint by numbers then more of us can get on board.

I think they are here to stay...of course time will tell.

[hubberjub]

They are intending this initially to probably go on a $15K or above guitar. There are plenty of guitars being bought at that level, these frets will just up the "art value" quite a bit, and also from the connoisseur player's perspective "improve the sound."

Apparently they have installed these on some low end guitars, Squiers and Epiphones, and it made a huge difference. It better for that kind of money.


It will be interesting to see some examples. $7k seems like an unreasonable amount to pay for a whole guitar (let alone a fret job). I don't see how a $300 guitar (Squire CV) with a $7000 fret job will equal a $7300 guitar such as a Gustavson or an Alembic etc. For it to be a feasible alternative I think they need to get it down in the 500-1000 price range. That seems reasonable for an upgrade to a high-end guitar.

[player]

I'm skeptical. I'll just stick to my stainless steel frets instead... ;)Yeah,They kinda Grow on ya

[oldguy]

the way I read this is there is no metal on metal or meal to metal.they are 100% pure quartz crystals , the need for replacement frets comes to an end. Metal can never wear down the frets; only diamonds can cut and polish these stones.

With quartz crystal frets, you get clear tone and extended sustain, because the density of the quartz keeps the string’s vibrational energy from going through or around the fret, where that energy would be lost. The string follows the the same molecular structure as the quartz, a single helix pattern that makes the string fully tunable, only in RPS. This not only boosts the sustain, it produces a warmer, fuller, more powerful sound, that makes a stock metal fret guitar sound flat.

don't think I'm wrong on this but still an expensive deal unless you know someone that dresses frets and are willing to undertake this as a project,
naturally one would be expected to provide the quartz though.


You are correct, what I was referring to was the first passage of the quote you posted from the website, as follows........

"Metal frets and a metal string create a natural distortion due to metal on metal contact. There are other materials that can be used in place of metal frets. Other patents with inferior materials have come and gone over the years, like ceramics and glass. These other man-made materials also produce clear tone and longer sustain."

This seems rather contradictory in and of itself. Other patents with inferior materials.............these other man-made materials also produce clear tone and longer sustain??????? I suppose they mean inferior to quartz, yet improved properties over metal............Hmmmmmmmm.......how many ceramic and/or glass fretted guitars have you seen out in the real world?
If they sound superior, why aren't there lots of them being played?
I'm just trying to reasonably assess this development from all sides.

Now, what I'm wondering is................
If there's a natural distortion with conventional frets (metal on metal), is it a "bad" sound, and is quartz a "good" sound, or is it just a matter of taste, what one person prefers sound-wise, as it were?
For example, try picking guitar with a celluloid pick, then a coin, then a piece of glass, then your fingers.......the attack changes, but is one better than the others, or just different? I suppose it depends on the individual's taste, and I personally prefer to hybrid pick w/ celluloid pick and fingers.
I might really like frets made of something besides metal....I've never tried it. I'd have to like it a whole lot to pay much more than a standard re-fret for it, though. But if the prices come down, who knows?
I've read the Crystal Frets site thoroughly, and as I stated, I'll follow the development of these.......not just dismiss it, as I think it could have merit......I just wouldn't pay that much for a fret job (or a guitar, for that matter). I don't know if it's even a sound I'd like. Looooong sustain sounds good, but there are other ways to get it.......and "clear tone" is something I'd have to hear first-hand to recognize. I don't think MP3 sound samples would do it for me. The vid of Bob Weir playing at Red Rocks wasn't much help, either. Bob looks pretty healthy, though, and still has most of his hair, too!:thumbsup

[NWBasser]

[QUOTE=player]they are 100% pure quartz crystals , the need for replacement frets comes to an end. Metal can never wear down the frets; only diamonds can cut and polish these stones.QUOTE]

Not true. On the Moh's Hardness Scale you can include corundum, emerald, hardened steel, topaz, chrysoberyl, chromium, tungsten carbide, stishovite and many other man-made and natural minerals with a hardness greater than the 7 of 100% pure quartz.

[Katastrophe]

Well, they certainly look cool!

As far as performance, only time, and more than a few applications will tell. $7,000 for a fret job is more than a little pricey, and they'd better perform $7,000 better than a normal fret to be worth it. At those prices, it's gonna be hard for the crystal frets to compare.

Metal to metal distortion? Sounds like a nonissue to me. We've got about 60 + years of to-die-for tones in electric guitars with normal frets as empirical evidence to the contrary. Steel strings on metal frets do not equal lousy tone, IMO. In fact, it's the steel on steel, flesh on steel interplay that makes guitar playing so danged real to me. I guess if I wanted distortion free, completely sterile musical tones, I'd use a computer.

My opinions are, of course 100% free, and worth exactly what you paid for.

[Spudman]

Right now I think most everyones objects are well founded, but most of us aren't going to be the target group for these frets. It's going to be people with lots of money who appreciate really nice things and don't worry about spending that kind of dough. Similar to buying a van Gogh, or Fabergé.

[oldguy]

I understand that, Spud. I'm just trying to make an unbiased decision based on the claims made by the company. I truly would like to play some of these guitars w/ quartz frets to see if I could hear a difference. But, again, I'd like to play some w/ glass or ceramic frets as well.
When all the factors of wood/pickups/nut/bridge, etc. are added together, different guitars do sound different......I'd like to play, say, a stock LP, and one with the quartz frets to see/hear the difference.
Wouldn't it be insane if it works. What if someone put quartz frets in an original 1959 Les Paul? For half a million dollars they might have the best sounding guitar in the world!

[NWBasser]

Considering the physical properties of quartz, there may be a fair bit of merit to their claims. I can also understand the intensity of the manufacturing process for them to justify the steep price.

But, in the end it doesn't really matter because none of us mortals will be able to afford something so expensive to produce. May as well be talking about power plants for super-yachts or interior finishes for Jetstreams.

[otaypanky]

I was curious enough, until I got to the $7000 number, then my curiosity quickly wandered over to the absurdity department. But I still thought it was a good idea. So I called Ron Popiel, he called a guy in Taiwan, and next week they can be yours for only 3 easy payments of $19.99. But wait, I'm not done yet !

CD's were considered more hi-fi too and don't lots of audiophiles and us old timers miss the warmth of vinyl? I don't think this will catch on in my lifetime