Cavs Fans Vs. LeBron

[R_of_G]

So last night was the much-hyped return of LeBron James to Cleveland to play the Cavs.

I get that the Cleveland fans are still bitter.

I get that they want to make signs and chant negative things at LeBron to try to get him off his game, though since he scored 38 and only played three quarters, I'd say that didn't work.

What I don't get it why they'd chant "Scottie Pippen" as if this was some kind of insult.

I mean, I get the thinking behind it, Pippen played second fiddle to Jordan as LeBron now does to Wade.

Nonetheless, Pippen won six championships, was enshrined in the Hall of Fame, and voted to the NBA's 50 Greatest Players of All Time list. LeBron, or any other ballplayer should take it as a compliment to be compared to Scottie Pippen.

When that chant started, it made the Cleveland fans look just plain stupid and the way the Cavs played only served to show why LeBron wanted to leave. That team is awful.

[Eric]

Agreed.

Ultimately, I wish Lebron hadn't done The Decision, because it opened him up to such criticism that he really doesn't deserve.

Cleveland fans, in my opinion, have just gone off the deep end. I'd like to hear from some of the Clevelanders for their perspective, but they are quickly invalidating themselves as being utterly ridiculous in their hatred of one guy who didn't do anything bad to their city.

[Commodore 64]

I don't like basketball. I never cared about LeBron then, and I don't now. I was just hoping the fans wouldn't do anything to make Ohio the butt of any more jokes than it already is.

LeBron, like many superstars is a big spoiled brat who thinks the world revolves around him. And unfortunately, he's right.

I'm tired of Dan Gilbert acting like a spurned lover. He should take his casino and go somewhere else.

[R_of_G]

Ultimately, I wish Lebron hadn't done The Decision, because it opened him up to such criticism that he really doesn't deserve.

Absolutely. I think LeBron had the right to choose to play wherever he wanted and I agree with him that his best chance of winning a title was somewhere other than Cleveland, but going about it in such a public way was a poor choice and only fueled the fires of anti-James sentiment.

I am hoping that after having their opportunity to let their feelings of betrayal be the lead story about last night's game that Cleveland fans will move on now and accept things as they are.

Truth be told, LeBron did them at least one favor in allowing the move to be a sign-and-trade wherein the Cavs got numerous high draft picks in future drafts rather than just outright signing with Miami as a free agent which would have left the Cavs with nothing.

[Jx2]

I cant completely blame Clevland fands myself. Had Lebron handled things a little diffrent the resentment might not be as high. I think all sports fan's understand in the modern day of free agency no superstar on any team is safe. I mean how many players in any sport play for one team their entire career? Even someone like Kobe might end up on another team one day. You might disagree but in Shaq's hey day who really saw him bouncing around like he has? Jordan played for the Wizards, Barkley on the Suns and Rockets. Its a endless list. But it really seemed like Lebron toyed with his decision. And some of the moves after the decision only added fuel to the fire.

I also think ESPN is also partly responsible for this. Could you imgaine if Peyton Manning held a big spectacle like this and then announced he was signing with the New England Patriots or Dallas Cowboys? Tell me Colts fans wouldnt be highly upset. Look at the backlash Arod got when he was traded to New York and then received his first big contract. I was a big Dale Earnhardt Jr. fan untill the day he signed with Hendrix on that day I decided I dont care if he ever wins another race or not.

Most fans pay hard earn money to watch basically spoiled athletes play sports. And I think the majority of the spoiled athlete resides in the NBA mainly because of the # of stars who leave college early or even go to college. Tell me guys like Lebron, Garnett, Iverson and others havent looked like imature spoiled brats at one time or another. I think thats because they receive these large chunks of money so early in their life without really growing up any. I think that atheltes that stick it out for 4 years of college always seem to have a better head on their shoulders because they are older.

So I say let the Cleveland fans express them self. In time this will pretty much run its course. So if Lebron cant handle it(which it looked like he can). Why critize the fans of a broken heart?

[Eric]

And I think the majority of the spoiled athlete resides in the NBA mainly because of the # of stars who leave college early or even go to college. Tell me guys like Lebron, Garnett, Iverson and others havent looked like imature spoiled brats at one time or another. I think thats because they receive these large chunks of money so early in their life without really growing up any. I think that atheltes that stick it out for 4 years of college always seem to have a better head on their shoulders because they are older.
Who honestly sticks it out for 4 years in college these days? In pretty much every major sport, even those players who stay for their senior season usually take off the final semester to prepare for the draft. The idea of academics and collegiate sports is long gone.

I get what you're saying overall, that time at the college level helps people mature, but I'd be kind of surprised if the data actually bore that out. I just don't think there's a correlation. Also, with the exception of The Decision, I think Lebron has really been a marketing agency's dream. He's mature well beyond his 25 years when it comes to his public persona.


So I say let the Cleveland fans express them self. In time this will pretty much run its course. So if Lebron cant handle it(which it looked like he can). Why critize the fans of a broken heart?
I'm not sure what you're saying here, but the Cavs fans did themselves no favors by expressing such uncontrolled vitriol last night. It was dumb. Take it from someone living in Philadelphia, a city scorned nationally for its sports fans: once you have a bad reputation, every single thing you do as a fanbase will be taken in the worst way possible.

[R_of_G]

So I say let the Cleveland fans express them self. In time this will pretty much run its course. So if Lebron cant handle it(which it looked like he can). Why critize the fans of a broken heart?

Like I said in my initial post, I understand the bitterness Cavs' fans have for LeBron and I think they had every right to express it, and some of them did so in some humorous and healthy ways.

However, I do think some of it was rather ridiculous and made them look ignorant, particularly the "Scottie Pippen" chant. What part of being called "Scottie Pippen" is supposed to be the insult... the six championship rings? The Hall of Fame enshrinement? The spot on the 50th Greatest of All Time list? Seems like a compliment to me.

I'll never understand the whole criticism of LBJ for not being able to win a title by himself. Nobody can win a title alone.

Jordan had Pippen (and to a lesser extent Paxson and Kukoc and company).

Magic had Kareem and Worthy.

Bird had McHale and Parrish and Dennis Johnson.

The great Pistons teams had Thomas and Dumars and Laimbeer.

The 90's Lakers had Shaq and Kobe and Horry.

The current Lakers complement Kobe with Gasol, Odom and Fisher.

The current Celtics have "the Big 3" and the very underrated Rajon Rondo who's one of the best point guards in the NBA.

Reardless of what Charles Barkley says, basketball is a team sport and nobody wins a championship alone.

[Jx2]

I was going to make a reference to Philly, or maybe Raider fans. Even though they treated McNabb fairly well upon his return. But then again maybe some of the cheers was cheers of joy. After all he did get boo'd on draft day. Personaly I think Cleveland fans would be known for a rough bunch if they got enough national exposure. Something thats hard to get when for the most part you teams suck. Rember a few years back when the Dawg Pound threw beer bottles at the refs? I think towns, like Philadelphia are good for sports in the way that bad boys are good for them as well.

I guess I personally just dont blame them. And really outside of some chants and signs, nasty or not. They behaved themself's fairly well. No one threw nothing at Lebron, no riots or anything of that nature. I also dont think it will hurt them in signing a free agent in the future. I think most people can understand the disappointment in "The Decision". If Im not mistaken didnt even Charles Barkley take some shots at Lebron for how he handled it all?

[Jx2]

I agree with you to R of G.

It takes a solid core, you mention Pippen with Jordan. But guys like Paxson, Armstrong, Grant and others where just as critical. I dont know how many times Paxson or Armstrong would break a teams run with a clutch 3 down the stretch. They might only finish a game with 8-12pts, but they normaly came in the 4th quarter or the start of the run that put the other team down for good.

Would Lebron of every won a ring in Cleveland? We'll never know, who's to say if he'd stayed someone wouldnt of came over and joined him either this year or next. Who's to say they wouldnt of had a bad year and ended up getting a Pippen to support Lebron in the lottery? We'll never know.

I just feel that if Cleveland fans want to boo, makes signs or whatever they have that right. Especially upon Lebrons first return visit to Cleveland. Yes the Pippen chant was stupid. Maybe Sam Bowie or some similar high round bust would of been more fitting. Maybe it arrived from a comment made on Cleveland sports radio who knows.

[R_of_G]

And really outside of some chants and signs, nasty or not. They behaved themself's fairly well. No one threw nothing at Lebron, no riots or anything of that nature.

Incorrect. ESPN's package of highlights from the game, which they've run a good 1,000 times today, includes footage of someone throwing a drink at the Heat bench in the 4th quarter.




I also dont think it will hurt them in signing a free agent in the future. I think most people can understand the disappointment in "The Decision". If Im not mistaken didnt even Charles Barkley take some shots at Lebron for how he handled it all?

I think the way Cavs' owner Dan Gilbert lashed out at LeBron following "The Decision" will most assuredly affect the way potential free agents view the Cavs. Gilbert essentially treated LeBron like a runaway slave, blasting him for being disloyal to his owners as opposed to a 25 year old man free to choose amongst competing job offers.

As for Barkley, all he's proven during this whole thing is that he's a hypocrite. He blasts LeBron for chasing a championship ring by going somewhere where he'd have better teammates when that is PRECISELY what he did by getting traded to Houston to play with Hakeem and Drexler. Does he think it's different because he was traded and not a free agent? Are we to believe a player of Barkley's caliber didn't have a no-trade clause?

I think he's just bitter because he never did win a title, and is high on my list of "Best Pro Athletes to Never Win a Title" right behind Dan Marino.

EDITED TO ADD:

And no, chanting "Sam Bowie" would have been even less fitting as LeBron is anything but a bust like Bowie was. The guy's won back-to-back MVPs. If anyone is the new Sam Bowie, it's Greg Oden.

[Eric]

Incorrect. ESPN's package of highlights from the game, which they've run a good 1,000 times today, includes footage of someone throwing a drink at the Heat bench in the 4th quarter.
I heard a battery was thrown toward the Cleveland bench too, and one fan was ejected for throwing a towel or something toward the bench.


I think the way Cavs' owner Dan Gilbert lashed out at LeBron following "The Decision" will most assuredly affect the way potential free agents view the Cavs. Gilbert essentially treated LeBron like a runaway slave, blasting him for being disloyal to his owners as opposed to a 25 year old man free to choose amongst competing job offers.

As for Barkley, all he's proven during this whole thing is that he's a hypocrite. He blasts LeBron for chasing a championship ring by going somewhere where he'd have better teammates when that is PRECISELY what he did by getting traded to Houston to play with Hakeem and Drexler. Does he think it's different because he was traded and not a free agent? Are we to believe a player of Barkley's caliber didn't have a no-trade clause?

I think he's just bitter because he never did win a title, and is high on my list of "Best Pro Athletes to Never Win a Title" right behind Dan Marino.

EDITED TO ADD:

And no, chanting "Sam Bowie" would have been even less fitting as LeBron is anything but a bust like Bowie was. The guy's won back-to-back MVPs. If anyone is the new Sam Bowie, it's Greg Oden.
Yup, I agree. Good comparison on the Bowie-Oden thing too -- there are a lot of similarities there.

Also, on your earlier post, you are absolutely right that no one wins it alone. You need at least 2 stars to win a championship, and 3 is preferable. Nobody can carry a team every game. There will always be bad stretches when the other star needs to step up. When did LeBron have anything resembling another star? Antawn Jamison? Mo Williams? Please.

[Jx2]

I think its safe to say that as far as the fans are concerned. We agree to disagree?

As for anything getting thrown. I didnt see it, I watched a little bit of the highlights on SC last night but not the entire thing. Havent even flipped the tv over to ESPN today. I dont condone those type of actions.

I wasnt making the Bowie comparison based on anything other than. As you guys said why Pippen? Its not a bash and if your going to bash him in that fashion you'd have to find a non hall of fame caliber player.

With all this said, do you guys think the Heat will win the title? Will they make the Finals or conference finals? Do you think Wade and Lebron can get along better over a few years stretch then say Kobe and Shaq? After all part of the reason Pippen and Jordan got along so well on the court was you basically had the best A-baller and the best B-baller on the same team. I think the same can be said about most great dynasty type teams. You have to watch ego's or it will dismantle a team.

O yea, and if it doesnt work who's most likely to go first Lebron or Wade?

[R_of_G]

When did LeBron have anything resembling another star? Antawn Jamison? Mo Williams? Please.

Exactly. Mo Williams is the most inconsistent player in the NBA. One night he'll score in the 20s and dish out 10+ assists, the next he's invisible.

Jamison is a solid player, but not a top level second star for a team.

If I remember correctly, the Cavs could have had Amar'e Stoudemire last year at the trade deadline but refused to include Hickson in the deal with Phoenix. That would have been a clearer signal to LeBron that they were serious about getting him the help he needed to win a title.



With all this said, do you guys think the Heat will win the title? Will they make the Finals or conference finals?

This year? No.

Even when Mike Miller returns from his injury and even if Haslem comes back for the playoffs as it's been reported he might, I think they're still no better than the third best team in the East. Boston is significantly deeper both in their starting five and down the bench. Orlando is deeper all-around and can play defense. I'm not even sure the Heat can take Atlanta in seven games if Joe Johnson stays healthy. The Heat might make the conference finals depending on the way the seeds fall out for the playoffs, but I don't see it this year. The bench is just too thin.

That said, I do think they Heat can contend in years to come as they add some more pieces and develop a consistent game plan. What they truly need is a legitimate point guard that knows how to distribute the ball to this many talented guys. No offense to Arroyo, but that's why they went after Fisher in free agency.



... and if it doesnt work who's most likely to go first Lebron or Wade?
It won't be Wade. No matter what happens, Wade is a hero in Miami because he already brought them a title. I know several longtime Heat fans and while they were thrilled to get LBJ and Bosh, they were much happier that the Heat re-signed Wade. If he chooses to, he'll finish his career in Miami. LBJ may wind up elsewhere down the line.

[Jx2]

I live a long way from Miami....So Im going to ask since it seems as if you have more insight on the Miami side of things. To me it has seemed for years, when someone mentioned the Miami Heat, Alonzo Morning is the first name you'd think about. And it appeared that really rang true in Miami. Has Wade surpassed Zo in that aspect?

[Robert]

I have NO clue whatsoever what you guys are talking about. :D

[R_of_G]

I live a long way from Miami....So Im going to ask since it seems as if you have more insight on the Miami side of things. To me it has seemed for years, when someone mentioned the Miami Heat, Alonzo Morning is the first name you'd think about. And it appeared that really rang true in Miami. Has Wade surpassed Zo in that aspect?

At least with the Heat fans that I know, yes, D. Wade is the hero, though 'Zo is still a legend to them.

And Robert, we're talking about NBA basketball.

[Eric]

This year? No.

Even when Mike Miller returns from his injury and even if Haslem comes back for the playoffs as it's been reported he might, I think they're still no better than the third best team in the East. Boston is significantly deeper both in their starting five and down the bench. Orlando is deeper all-around and can play defense. I'm not even sure the Heat can take Atlanta in seven games if Joe Johnson stays healthy. The Heat might make the conference finals depending on the way the seeds fall out for the playoffs, but I don't see it this year. The bench is just too thin.
I personally do not feel comfortable making such a statement so early in the season. I think they'll be fine as long as they can make the playoffs, but I'm curious and interested in how this season will play out. I think the Heat will be OK, but I just want to see how it goes. I actually like the Heat as a team and hope they do win it all.


It won't be Wade. No matter what happens, Wade is a hero in Miami because he already brought them a title. I know several longtime Heat fans and while they were thrilled to get LBJ and Bosh, they were much happier that the Heat re-signed Wade. If he chooses to, he'll finish his career in Miami. LBJ may wind up elsewhere down the line.
I also don't see them separating at any point soon. Salary cap adjustments are the only thing that could kill this IMO, and I think Bosh would be the first to go. Again, I'm just kind of enjoying watching the show and trying to be patient.

[Eric]

I have NO clue whatsoever what you guys are talking about. :D
Well, it doesn't involve competitive running, Sweden, coffee, beer, or guitars, so that makes sense!