A Couple Questions 4 Bass Effects

[Jx2]

I have a couple in general question for the bass players here about effects.

1. The importance of a compression pedal on your board? I talked to a friend of mine who is a great musician in general. About the overall use of a compression pedal, from his use of one. I was thinking about tryin to sell it and buy a distoration/overdrive/footswitch. However, I then watched a clip with Eric Bass from Shinedown who said he use's a pedal to controll his sound mainly because depending on the situation sometimes he gets carried away with his playing and this pedal helps keep him tone's on a even keel regardless of how hard he's playing. Is it something you'd suggest or something that if you have it use it if not dont sweat it?

2. Guitar effects through a bass amp.....Ive read, seen, heard of guys using pedals more targeted at guitars players. When I plug one of mine in either a Boss DS-1 or a Digitech Metal Master, I get some pretty fierce hum out of my amp. Ive noticed I can use the compression pedal to dial the hum down, but I really dont want to have to use a 2 step method just for a little crunch here and there. It just hit me while writing question #3. Any chance the hum might fade a little through the effects loop instead of straight in?

3. Pedal chain suggestion...Ive heard for years that when running multi effects there is a logistics of sort of what to run where and how. Even when I played guitar I normaly ran some sort of OD/distortion and a chorus and that was it so it never really mattered. Now Im looking at a compression, distortion, chorus, auto wah, 7-band eq, and possible another wah, Ibanez Screamin Demon. I have it and while I like the auto wah alot, I think having the ability to have more controll over it could be fun as well, plus I can set my auto wah up to be more like a octave pedal if I wish.

Thanks in adavance :rockya

[NWBasser]

Well, I'm not so much into effects on my bass, but I'll share what I know.

Compression for bass is a very good thing. I just got a compressor/sustainer for Xmas and I think is something of a fundamental effect for bassists.

It's really nice to have if you do any slapping/popping and is about the only effect that I'd use regularly.

AFAIK, most guitar effects work well for bass, although many of the distortion pedals can cut the bottom out of the tone. For distortion, I think a good bass-specific one is usually a better choice. The new Fender one is supposed to be quite nice at retaining a full bottom with smooth distortion.

If you like tube tone/distortion, the Tech 21 VT Bass is supposed to be the bomb for doing that.

A bass-specific graphic EQ can be useful if you need to adjust your tone for certain rooms and situations.

Also, the effects loop is typically used more with rack effects than stomp boxes.

[Eric]

This seems like as good a place as any...

What's the difference between the Tech 21 VT Bass and the Tech 21 Bass Driver DI pedals? What are they used for in general? Adding OD/distortion to a bass? Is that something a lot of people do? Also, why is compression such an important effect?

My lack of knowledge on bass effects/tone comes from lack of experience with the bass -- it seems like most everything you could want can be done with pickup selection and tone knobs, so please pardon the severe ignorance.

[marnold]

To the original post, even when I was playing bass full time, I rarely used effects even though I had several. I only used my graphic EQ as an overdrive pedal :)


What's the difference between the Tech 21 VT Bass and the Tech 21 Bass Driver DI pedals? What are they used for in general?
Those I've heard who use the BDDI use them to go direct to the PA. Geddy Lee did that for years. The VT Bass is intended to emulate those old Ampeg bass amphs. The BDDI has an XLR out which the VT Bass lacks.

[Eric]

Those I've heard who use the BDDI use them to go direct to the PA. Geddy Lee did that for years. The VT Bass is intended to emulate those old Ampeg bass amphs. The BDDI has an XLR out which the VT Bass lacks.
But you could still pop the VT Bass into a direct box and have the same thing, right?

The bassist at church right now plugs straight into the house. What would the BDDI give him in that instance? Just more tone shaping or something? If he's not yet using his volume and tone knobs much, would that be worth it?

[marnold]

But you could still pop the VT Bass into a direct box and have the same thing, right?
As I understand it, yes.


The bassist at church right now plugs straight into the house. What would the BDDI give him in that instance? Just more tone shaping or something? If he's not yet using his volume and tone knobs much, would that be worth it?
Tone shaping, overdrive, etc. What is he using to get the signal up to line level?

[Eric]

What is he using to get the signal up to line level?
As far as I know, just the active preamp in his bass (Ibanez SGR or something?).

[NWBasser]

OK, here's what I know about the VT; it's a tube amp emulator and can work as a preamp to a power amp or in front of a bass amp. It will do an SVT or B15 or other tube amp. It will go from clean, smooth tubey to full-tube overdrive.

There's also a deluxe version of the VT with programmable settings and a DI output. It would work much the same as the BDDI, but with "better" tube amp emulation. With a full PA available, it would handily replace a bass amp.

Also, I want one...

[Eric]

OK, here's what I know about the VT; it's a tube amp emulator and can work as a preamp to a power amp or in front of a bass amp. It will do an SVT or B15 or other tube amp. It will go from clean, smooth tubey to full-tube overdrive.

There's also a deluxe version of the VT with programmable settings and a DI output. It would work much the same as the BDDI, but with "better" tube amp emulation. With a full PA available, it would handily replace a bass amp.

Also, I want one...
So the VT Bass is more or less the next generation of the BDDI? IIRC, the Bass Driver comes in two versions: original and a programmable. I think the VT Bass comes in two versions like you said: original stompbox format and the programmable with XLR out.

Back to my original divergent point, for my friend, is there any point to getting such a pedal, either the BDDI or VT Bass? He has some P/J configed Ibanez bass, but doesn't seem to dink much with volume or tone knobs and goes direct to FOH without anything in between right now.

I know guitar direct to a PA will sound big and flabby and have too much bass and no punch, but I'm not sure if that's a big an issue with basses. I suppose that's my actual question.

[NWBasser]

Well Eric, does your friend like his direct-to-board sound now?

If it sounds good, then all's well.

A simple DI box may be a good idea if his active bass is hitting the board a bit too hard.

The VT Dlx. or Driver would offer a much broader tone pallate, especially a tube tone. In essence, his bass would sound like it's coming through a good bass amp versus a very dry signal typical of a board channel.

[NWBasser]

[QUOTE=Eric]So the VT Bass is more or less the next generation of the BDDI? QUOTE]

Not exactly. The BDDI was developed as a preamp and direct box so that a bassist could run their signal direct to the board with some control over the tone and dispense with an amp.

The VT Bass was developed as a stomp box tube amp modeler aimed more at the bass player with an amp, but wanting a tube tone without the considerable expense and weight of a tube amp.

The VT Deluxe seems to fill the void between the BDDI and the VT pedal. Functions in much the same way as a BDDI but with much better tube amp emulation.

BTW, Geddy used a Sanamp RBI which is a bigger rack-mount unit patterned after the BDDI. He now uses a couple of Orange tube heads.

[t_ross33]

Bass DI'd or "line-in" into the PA is pretty common. We split our bass signal with a passive DI to the bass amp and to the mixer negating the need to mic up the bass amp or cab.

Compression on bass is a real good thing... really tightens up the sound and tames the "blooms" (for lack of a better word) you often get as a note tails off. It would be similar to palm muting, but with better/clearer note articulation.

An EQ specifically for bass (with lower frequencies than a standard guitar EQ) is also a great idea for tone shaping and taming resonant frequencies in some rooms. At a recent gig we were getting a terrible loud rumble until we figured out the stage floor itself was resonating at a specific frequency. Once we had the frequency figured out we notched it out and all was good.

Distortion has it's place, but it can muddy the mix quite a bit if you are not careful. Great for a nice thick and heavy groove when used correctly. Of course if you are playing real heavy, tuned-down rock/metal, bass distortion (pedal or tube amp derived) is almost a necessity I would think.

Chorus can produce some nice funky bass sounds as well.

So for my $0.02, a compressor and a bass EQ would be great, almost essential, additions for any bassist either into an amp or direct to the board. Anything over and above that is up to your ears, style of play etc.

[Eric]

Very good input, guys -- much appreciated. Trev, I might actually direct him toward compression now that you say that; it's something I've definitely heard mentioned before. I think I know what you mean about the blooms, and it's something that annoys me all of the time.

Thanks again for answering my thread-hijacking question.

[t_ross33]

I think I know what you mean about the blooms, and it's something that annoys me all of the time.

I wasn't sure if I was articulating that well enough, so glad you caught it. I think what happens is as one note tails off, then the next note tails off over top and so on and so on, you get a big mucky mwhaaahhaaawww backing tone that sucks the life out of your groove. Compression helps clamp that down and just makes everything sound tighter. IMHO.

[Duffy]

My Marshall MB30 bass practice amp, and all the Marshall MB line of bass amps, have an adjustable compression knob. A lot of good bass amps have compression built in.

I have a Zoom B2.1u multi-effects bass pedal that is really cool and has a usb out as well as a regular jack to the amp. This pedal is really cool with any bass amp. It has noise reduction, compression, distortion and all sorts of effects and presets that you can tweak various parameters of each setting. This thing can produce some awesome sounds, everywhere from clean, bright, and snappy, to smooth, silky, flatwound string sounds. It has an expression pedal that can be set to a lot of other functions other than wah. You can use the pedal to control the intensity of selected effects and combinations of effects. The range of sounds you can get is incredible.

This is my only bass specific pedal but it is really cool. I tried out a lot of them before I bought it and liked it the best for getting into some cool grooves without a lot of hassle and it isn't built cheap. You can probably pick them up used very inexpensively now.

A multipedal like this would give any bass player the ability to easily find a sound to fit into any venue.

I realize these other ones you are talking about are probably similar and possibly better because of the tube, but my experience is that the multipedal greatly improves the flexibility of sounds you can get out of the amp.

When just practicing at home and playing for fun, I usually just plug directly into the Marshall and use its controls and the controls on the bass. I usually play a Fender MIM P bass, a Squier J bass with Fender noiseless J bass pickups, or my Schecter stilleto elite five string active with humbuckers. With any one of these I can get some awesome sounds but my favorite is the Fender P bass.

My bass amps and multipedal have eq's built in.

Those Ibanez basses are cool bases for not a lot of money. Nice fast necks and fairly lightweight.

Maybe you should encourage him to get into twidleing with the volume and tone knobs on the Ibanez, Eric.

I would not want to forfiet all control of my sound to the sound man at a church. I like the idea of splitting the sound into the amp on the stage and the line to the mixing board at church dudes hand, plus have a multipedal before the DI to the mixing board for even more control over what the house guy can do to my sound. I'd like to be able to just walk over there and turn up the amp if need be.

I saw a lady singer in church stop right at the beginning of her solo song and tell the sound man to turn her up, period, or she was going to walk off the stage. She said this twice, stopping both times right away and meant business, and this was in a church with about three to four hundred people in attendance. Very professional and a guest, independent from the whims of the musical director. There is nothing like a cool musical director in a church setting, because they get a lot of heat I'm sure from "certain people".

[Eric]

I saw a lady singer in church stop right at the beginning of her solo song and tell the sound man to turn her up, period, or she was going to walk off the stage. She said this twice, stopping both times right away and meant business, and this was in a church with about three to four hundred people in attendance. Very professional and a guest, independent from the whims of the musical director. There is nothing like a cool musical director in a church setting, because they get a lot of heat I'm sure from "certain people".
Wow, that's pretty gutsy! I would have loved to have seen that.

[NWBasser]

I wasn't sure if I was articulating that well enough, so glad you caught it. I think what happens is as one note tails off, then the next note tails off over top and so on and so on, you get a big mucky mwhaaahhaaawww backing tone that sucks the life out of your groove. Compression helps clamp that down and just makes everything sound tighter. IMHO.

I've heard other players get this mucky sound too. Compression is one cure, but I think it speaks more to a technique issue. Note control is very important on bass.

Lots of players focus on what notes to play rather than how they play the notes. As Victor Wooten says, every note has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Good muting techniques can go a long way in resolving the muddy mush.

Proper EQ'ing can help a lot in this area too. A good parametric EQ can help find and eliminate annoying rumble. Also, a bottom-heavy tone can easily get quite mushy.

All this said, I do think compression is very useful for bass and is practically essential for any slapping and popping technique.