Cables

[Beerman]

The cable I've used for 5 years is finally starting to show wear and I'm starting to hear the difference. I've not bought cables in years and now that I jam with a friend who has a very high quality board, cheap cables will be noticed.
That said, just because you spend lots of money doesn't mean you get something good so I'm open to suggestions and personal experiences with cables.
I've heard good and bad about Monstor, Fender and Mogami. Of course, I don't want to spend anymore than I have to but certainly want the best bang for the buck.

[Robert]

I am getting these very soon - http://www.armorgoldcables.com/armorgold/instrument_cable.html

They are very good.

[NWBasser]

I use Monster cables because I got them free with a bass I bought. They work, but if I were recording I might choose a Mogami.

[Eric]

If you can solder, you can make your own. That's what I've done, and I generally suck with solder. Mogami 2524 and Canare GS-6 are both well thought of for the cable part. Neutrik and Amphenol supposedly both work well. I've only used Canare and Neutrik thus far, for the record.

Otherwise, I just bought a Whirlwind Leader cable -- I think it was 20' for $16 or something. It's very nice, and anecdotally, they're almost indestructible. Whirlwind is a very good company that makes high-quality stuff, and they don't mess with people and overcharge when it comes to cables. Try www.americanmusical.com if you want to buy them.

[Beerman]

I asked a number of friends who have friends who play many dates each year and a number of them also recommended Armor. Their advice along with Roberts' nod was enough to get me to order a 10 ft and 20 ft. They offer a 60 day 'trial' so I and my buddy will work hard to beat it to death and see how it works.
I've actually got no problem with my old, cheaper, cables as far as hum or buzz. It's simply wearing out.

[Duffy]

I go to a reputable guitar store that carries a lot of professional guitars and amps and is a dealer of major brands like Fender, Ibanez, LTD, Peavey, etc., and ask the salesman for help finding real good cables, not necessarily Monster cables, but ones way better than the Hosa ones, etc. They always find some great cables like Ibanez, Fender, Planet Waves, etc. that are excellent quality. Lots of times they give them to me free because I buy other stuff there, or I get a good price.

Remember, your signal chain is only as good as its weakest link, so if you have more than one cable going to your amp, such as one to a pedal and another one to a second pedal, you have to be aware of the quality of all these cables and also the quality of the pedals. Generally, the more connections you have between your guitar output and the amp input, the more signal degradation you will have. And some of the connections, such as to certain pedals and different cables, are very bad connections and cause noise. Noise is additive with increasing numbers of connections or pedals in your line going to the amp.

One good cable from the guitar straight to the amp is the quietest connection because it is uninterrupted by other connections. A lot of times you want to use a pedal or two, so you have to make sure all the cables are of good quality as well as your main guitar cable.

Hope this input is helpful to you.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just go and jam with the guy and see what you think you need. Maybe you will want to get a few new things. And possibly get a new cable thrown in free.

[Ch0jin]

If you can solder, you can make your own. That's what I've done, and I generally suck with solder. Mogami 2524 and Canare GS-6 are both well thought of for the cable part. Neutrik and Amphenol supposedly both work well. I've only used Canare and Neutrik thus far, for the record.

+1

Canare GS-6 and Neutrik is a widely accepted DIY solution without the marketing hype. It is however, DIY.

I'm redoing my board at present actually and for the sake of experiment I have some fairly cheap right angle plugs from my local electronics store, some Neutrik's and I also grabbed a GFS patch cable when I ordered a tuner the other week.

I'm not actually using Canare cable for the patching though as I have cable from a local supplier that is not only less expensive, but more flexible for patch usage. I've been using it for years and know it sounds good to me.

Then again, I use a $15 black curly cord from guitar to board these days because I just think it looks cool. :)

Oh and one thing, plenty of people love Planet Waves cables, but not me. I don't like how tight the connectors are (they kept basically unscrewing my guitar jacks) and mine died after about 2 months from a break in an internal conductor whereas I have other (home made) cables that have been going strong for 15 years.

[vroomery]

For guitar to board I have a Lava Canare cable with Neutrik a neutrik silent plug on the guitar end.

For patch cables I bought a pack of the 6" Hosa patch cables with pancake plugs. Then I cut and re-soldered them to length.

[guitartango]

I have seen threads before discussing the purchase of guitar cables and in the end it's all about your TONE !. If you want your signal to be good and your amp to shine then you need quality cables and not the cheap end of the market such as fender, planetwaves.

Try http://www.evidenceaudio.com for guitar cables (as used by David Gilmour)

[sunvalleylaw]

LiveWire makes some decent, quiet, cables for not to expensive, and they go on sale a lot. I got rid of a lot of noise when i went to them. PlankSpanker, also on the board, likes them too as i recall.

[stingx]

Sorry but IMHO paying ridiculous money for cables is absurd. I still have 23 year old Whirlwind cables that still function. Just buy a cable that has good connectors and is nicely flexible. The rest is just hype and marketing.

Example:

10 bucks for 20' Whirlwind

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-WHI-EGC20-LIST

CBI is very good too albeit a tad pricier:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-CBI-GA110-LIST

Don't go too cheap either and try to avoid the mass produced Chinese shit like the plaque. They just don't hold up.

[otaypanky]

I'm a believer when it comes to good cables, you can hear a difference.

Two friends were over one night and I did a blind sound test with them using several different cables. They each picked out the Vovox cable.

[Ch0jin]

I got one of THESE (http://www.guitarfetish.com/GFS-Pedalboard-Pro-Angled-Interconect-Cable_c_11.html) to try out the other day too..

They look awesome, the green covering is killer and I think the red might look even better (they were out of the red when I ordered), the plugs have a gold tip (no doubt just a gold looking coating, but I'm not bothered) and the cables are soldered and then heat-shrinked. The plugs themselves are slightly better than the ones my local electronics store sells for $5 each.

$3.95 for a 6" patch cable is FAR cheaper than I can make them myself. I'm still messing with my pedal board as I recently got a few more, but to my ears it sounds fine, and I might order some more as well as some of their cotton covered cables too (I love the look and feel of my Fender vintage voltage cables so it'd be a nice A/B test) next time I do a GFS order.

[hubberjub]

I do think that a good cable makes a difference. I bought Monster cables about three years ago and one of the biggest selling points was that they have a very good return policy. I had a friend who absolutely abused his and GC replaced it. I think Mogami has a similar return policy.

[marnold]

Tung had posted a link on where to get lengths of very nice, low capacitance cable. Buy some good connectors and away you go for a fraction of what high-end cables will cost. Monsters are great if you like high capacitance. So if you want a coil cable tone without the coil, try them. A guy who was a tech in Green Bay for years and years said that he repaired more Monster cable than any other brand by a longshot and not just because of the warranty. So you get a cable of the quality of one off the rack from Radio Shack, but at least you paid a lot more for it *cough*

As an aside, if you want excellent quality A/V cables, get them from MonoPrice (http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp). It's scandalous what electronics stores charge for, say, HDMI cables, that are of inferior quality to those at MonoPrice.

[hubberjub]

Marnold, I'm sure you're right about Monster being horribly overpriced. I used to get special pricing (as could almost anyone) through GC for being in a gigging band. I think I paid less than $30 a piece for my 21' leads. At that price it was worth it to me.

[Ch0jin]

Anyone actually used an LCR meter on their guitar cables to see if the difference between good and bad sounding is measurable?

I was looking at the monster cable website and noticed they like to use big fancy words to describe the cables, but there are no actual spec's like DC resistance, capacitance and so on. I'm not saying they don't sound good because I've never used them, but wouldn't these electrical specifications actually dictate the resultant "sound" of the cable?

With capacitance meters on ebay for as low as $25 that claim to measure all the way down to 1pF I'm tempted......

[stingx]

Monster Cable vs. $10 guitar line

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/12/02/monster-cable-vs-10-guitar-line/

Believe what you want. Just like with audio cables, it's all hype.

Great comparison video...

IXXdFt7pXWc

[Eric]

As an aside, if you want excellent quality A/V cables, get them from MonoPrice (http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp). It's scandalous what electronics stores charge for, say, HDMI cables, that are of inferior quality to those at MonoPrice.
I was recently turned on to them for 1/4" instrument cables too. I haven't ordered any, but the guy who mentioned the site to me said they're excellent quality cables.

For DIY cables, I think Redco (http://www.redco.com/) has some of the better prices I've seen.

[deeaa]

I have a few George L cables lying around I have had since '92 or so and still use quite a lot. I can't remember them ever failing really. I may have once re-set the plug on one...used to have like 6 long ones but now down to two - not because they've failed but I've just lost them, or someone took 'em. You know how a LOT of stuff vanishes over the years when you change facilities etc. I must have left a lot of cables, mics and whatnot lying around in our own facility and then again I have a few mics myself I can't remember ever buying :-)

The only problem with those is they're very stiff and coil funnily on stage. So I generally use 'em for all but the guitar > pedalboard part of my setup. But I think I heard they also make less stiff, thicker instrument cables?

Anyways, if they weren't so damned expensive I would use nothing else.

But generally I buy some, whatever OK quality cable they happen to have in store like every 3 years or so, you tend to need more and more of them and you lose 'em and so on anyway...and I fix a lot of my old cables too by soldering them. I must have a few dozen cables lying around here and there, bits and pieces and working and not..

[Beerman]

Today I got the 2 Amour cables I ordered. I don't have my amp with me but I do have a USB Behringer device which I sometimes practice with on my PC. Man, what a diffence! Some of the high gain settings were really starting to annoy my ears with the whining and noise. Now, it's all but gone. The highest gain settings still have some hum but I've never set the gain to max. Now when I do, even with the minor hum, it's 1000 times better.
The other settings with less gain always had some type of hum and that is gone. The next test is to try these out with the boys at the next jam session.
I'm happy so far.

[deeaa]

I'm inclined to think your previous cables have been extremely bad or you're imagining things, beerman...I find it hard to believe an instrument cable could make such a difference. I've sometimes used even non-shielded electric cable in a pinch for short runs and can't find a difference therein really.

[otaypanky]

If you don't have any Monster cables to use, just throw a blanket over your amp. It will sound about the same IMHO

[Ch0jin]

Hahahahahaha.

I used to think politics and religion were inflammatory topics. They aint sh*t compared to discussion of guitar leads....

[deeaa]

This topic just screams for a virtual blind test. If I could score a bunch of cables more I could make a vid where you can't see the cord used and record the same riff thru a semi-clean all-tube amp using stuff ranging from lamp cords to super-expensive cables and see if people can tell a difference, and if, what would it be, and record them with the 414 and analyze the sonicgrams... Hmm...now where can I find some Monsters etc. for testing....

[Ch0jin]

This topic just screams for a virtual blind test. If I could score a bunch of cables more I could make a vid where you can't see the cord used and record the same riff thru a semi-clean all-tube amp using stuff ranging from lamp cords to super-expensive cables and see if people can tell a difference, and if, what would it be, and record them with the 414 and analyze the sonicgrams... Hmm...now where can I find some Monsters etc. for testing....

Frankly I think you'd be wasting your time. It's a good idea, don't get me wrong, but:

1. There are too many variables.

a) A guitar cable isn't a complete circuit but rather a component of a circuit. Whats on either end of the cable makes a difference. Even if you eliminate the tone cap and pots in the guitar and run pickup into cable, the effect of a cable with say 200pf capacitance on a high impedance pickup will be different to the effect on a lower impedance pickup. Then there is the frequency response of the pickups themselves. As you sweep up and down the range of frequencies a guitar pickup produces, the response won't be linear. It'll also be different from one pickup type to another. This will effect where in the spectrum the capacitive load of the cable has an effect and by how much.

b) At the other end of the cable we have the input impedance of the amp to consider. It's not a standard value and therefore the effect will be variable based on the amp used. Add effects pedals into the chain and any sort of standardized testing becomes basically impossible. A good buffer for example should negate the effects of cable capacitance. All true Bypass? Well hello EXTRA load on your signal due to the increased signal path though all kinds of cables and components.

c) Noise rejection/Hum rejection and handling noise (microphonics). I see it like this. If your environment is NOT conducive to hum, meaning your area is (relatively) free of both RF and LF sources. You might not even notice that cable "X" has poor shielding. Conversely if your are near a radio transmission tower in a room with air conditioners and refrigerators and the like, your poorly shielded cable will hum like a high dollar hooker.
With regard to whats known as handling noise or microphonics, again the usage model will effect the users experience. High gain, High volume users will notice it, bedroom players will not.

d) The Human Factor. Hearing degrades with age and environment. A 15 year old can hear more high frequencies than a 40 year old, even without adding in environmental influences (working with machinery/loud music etc). Thats not the end of it though, whilst hearing loss is a quantitative measurement and could be factored into an experiment, the purely subjective nature of "what sounds good" can't be measured or accounted for in an experiment.
A personal example is my cheap curly cord. I know it's a high capacitance cable because even I can hear it rolling off my extreme high frequencies compared to my usual home brew cables, but you know what? I LIKE that sound with one of my guitars and for certain types of music. My Peavey tube amp has an active EQ on the drive channels anyway so I can just turn up the treble a notch if I decide it's too muddy. Another variable!

2. Who are you? I mean no disrespect, but unless your name is David Gilmour or Eric Clapton, or you share their level of fame, then you could publish completely accurate data and guitarists would STILL buy from the vendor their hero uses (or is endorsed by....) and people will still talk smack online to back up their favorite brand.

3. Intended use. What a regularly gigging pro musician looks for in cable (or what his tech looks for) is different from the studio guy, the jam guy or the bedroom guy. This is where we get into things like durability and warranty as influencing factors as well.

4. Personal bias. A personal example is Planet Waves. I've seen a lot of people rave over them, but I've had one of their cables that failed on me after only a month or so and even before that their secure plugs were unscrewing my guitar jacks and shorting the jack to one of my control pots. For that reason I got the sh*ts with them and wont buy any more. All over one single cable. Sure it's ridiculous to slag them off (and I don't) over one bad experience, but I know that whilst they are a good fit for many, they aren't for me. I'd suspect this scenario is repeated all over the world with all different brands of cable.

Anyway, hopefully I've illustrated my point. It is my opinion (and thats all it is, an opinion), and all I'm trying to do here is go some way toward explaining why, whenever the question of cables comes up, almost everyone has a different opinion on what works and what doesn't. There IS no right answer, there is only what works for YOU.

Anyway, that took me two beers to write, hopefully it makes sense...

DISCUSS :)

[deeaa]

Oh, I agree 100% Chojin, everything effects everything. But, I think it's good to ponder about how much of it is worth considering and what is just neglible or marketing hype.

Of course different gear affects things differently no doubt about that, but if there is no change between different cables on one fixed setup, well, the differences in other setups must really be neglible.

Just trying to do my share so that people would keep their senses and not buy into every marketing hype out there, when it's much a matter of faith in many respects.

For instance, it makes me sort of grin when people who listen to classic rock rave about some superb speaker cables etc.

OK, so maybe some gold-ear could hear a minute difference between a 50c cable and a 5000$ cable, but do they really think the musicians intended people to hear such differences? Have they ever been in a studio, especially an older one where audio crisscrosses thru like miles of various circuits and cords before hitting the ear...it's just funny to me.

Of course I like a good sturdy cable but unless we're really discussing the difference between a lamp cord and a coaxial shielded cable, I simply refuse to believe it could have _any_ impact on my very purist p-t-p all tube amp direct line setup, even. Let alone if you indeed insert a pedal with op amps and buffers in between. No freaking way a cable during a few yards on that circuit could make more difference than a fly's crap on guitar body does.

[Beerman]

I'm inclined to think your previous cables have been extremely bad or you're imagining things, beerman...I find it hard to believe an instrument cable could make such a difference. I've sometimes used even non-shielded electric cable in a pinch for short runs and can't find a difference therein really.
They weren't cheap but were old. However, when I get to my friends studio for a jam, I will definitely be able to tell after test other cables. My buddy is an uber audiophile and I trust his ears implicitly but will ask the opinion of others as well.
When I used the same 'old' cable in jamming, it does not make as much noise as it did when I use the Behringer to the pc. Maybe that funky setup isn't the best way to test but as I use the Behringer to PC often and the 'old' cable hums, these Armor cables already have made that much more enjoyable.
I'm not selling for Armor, just a regular user and I'm sure there are plenty of good cables that would do roughly the same for me.

[Tig]

I've experimented with several cables from George L's, Monster, and the cheap yet decent (forgot the name) "house brand" with the blue end sleeves from GC, but my favorite by far are the Mogami 2524 cables with Neutrik Gold connectors.

While all cables in the chain can affect the quality of signal, the longest cable is what I'll spend more on.

I've read that super-low capacitance (below 30 pf) can sound too trebly and harsh, while higher capacitance (over 40 pf) cables can sound dull and lifeless.

[stingx]

The tones of the guitar heroes of yore that most try to achieve were created with TERRIBLE components. You think Hendrix had a friggin monster cable or even gave a shit as to what cable he used? What about Townshend.

Listen, I don't want to insult anyone but anyone who believes they are going to sound significantly better by spending big bucks on a cable is deluded. Same goes for those high $$$ boutique pedals, same goes for fill in the blank. Law of diminishing returns anyone?

Want to really improve your sound? Spend more time playing your instrument than wasting money on products purposely designed with outrageous hype in mind. These people are laughing all the way to the bank...

[tunghaichuan]

I'd never buy anything made by Monster. They have a history of suing anyone using the name "Monster," even those not in the musical instrument industry. Google monster cable lawsuits for more info.

I prefer to roll my own. Mainly because I'm a cheap, broke-a$$ mofo. :dance

[otaypanky]

Better or worse is probably not the case, instead 'different' describes what I have found with various cables. The Monster I thought was awful sounded fat and full when the guitar's volume pots were at max setting. They only sounded poorly to me at partial settings and were dark and muddy. My tastes are that when I roll down I want the tone to be clear so for me they were not a good choice. I typically don't use pedals so it's much more apparent than if I was going through a bunch of effects instead of relying on the guitar controls for variation in the sound.
On the other hand, I had one nice old Fender that a previous owner had installed a treble bleed. That guitar became way too shrill and sounded awful at partial volume when used with my favorite cables. But using the Monster it sounded great. I have since removed the treble bleed and it now sounds great with my favorite cables. So I guess it's all application.
I will say that Monster has great customer service. I had two cables break. The pin snapped off at the base on both of them. The people at Monster told me to exchange them locally and when I told them that no one around here carried them and also that the cables were 2 or 3 years old, they said no problem. They had me mail them back and sent me two new ones. That's really great service in my book :applause

[otaypanky]

Ch0jin, you shouldn't makes posts like the one above!
Now I know how knowledgeable you are about this stuff.
And you KNOW who I'm going to ask for help when I have a problem :agree

[deeaa]

The tones of the guitar heroes of yore that most try to achieve were created with TERRIBLE components. You think Hendrix had a friggin monster cable or even gave a shit as to what cable he used? What about Townshend.

Listen, I don't want to insult anyone but anyone who believes they are going to sound significantly better by spending big bucks on a cable is deluded. Same goes for those high $$$ boutique pedals, same goes for fill in the blank. Law of diminishing returns anyone?

Want to really improve your sound? Spend more time playing your instrument than wasting money on products purposely designed with outrageous hype in mind. These people are laughing all the way to the bank...

+1

[deeaa]

I've experimented with several cables from George L's, Monster, and the cheap yet decent (forgot the name) "house brand" with the blue end sleeves from GC, but my favorite by far are the Mogami 2524 cables with Neutrik Gold connectors.

While all cables in the chain can affect the quality of signal, the longest cable is what I'll spend more on.

I've read that super-low capacitance (below 30 pf) can sound too trebly and harsh, while higher capacitance (over 40 pf) cables can sound dull and lifeless.

Now THIS is what I relate to. Everything affects everything, and you _always_ should consider the big picture. Does it make sense to put hundreds of dollars in cables? No. Does it make sense to make sure you don't buy utter shit and make sure you use good quality where it matters the most? HELL YEAH!

[Beerman]

Listen, I don't want to insult anyone but anyone who believes they are going to sound significantly better by spending big bucks on a cable is deluded. Same goes for those high $$$ boutique pedals, same goes for fill in the blank. Law of diminishing returns anyone?


I certainly don't sound better just because of new cables but the quality of sound, based on what I mentioned in my previous posts, is definitely better. Who wants hum and noise? That detracts for the enjoyment of what I'm playing.
I didn't spend a buttload but I feel I have cables that will last me a very long time even and hopefully, won't need to use the lifetime warranty.

[stingx]

I certainly don't sound better just because of new cables but the quality of sound, based on what I mentioned in my previous posts, is definitely better. Who wants hum and noise? That detracts for the enjoyment of what I'm playing.
I didn't spend a buttload but I feel I have cables that will last me a very long time even and hopefully, won't need to use the lifetime warranty.

I have no hum and no noise and I don't but into these "specialty brand" cables that advertise the ridiculous. Whatever floats your boat, Chief.

Try collecting on that lifetime warranty that's advertised :rollover

Anyway, as I already stated I still use cables I purchased over 25 years ago. The reason why they lasted so long was because the connectors were made rock solid as was the soldering. The cables are supple and quite flexible so no kinks form in them. They were cheap then and, counting for inflation, still cheap now.

[Ch0jin]

Ch0jin, you shouldn't makes posts like the one above!
Now I know how knowledgeable you are about this stuff.
And you KNOW who I'm going to ask for help when I have a problem :agree

Haha, nah I don't know much more than the next guy, it's just that I studied electronic engineering as a trade and worked as an electronics tech for many years. Feel free to ask away though, I love to try and help people out, just don't ask me anything about actually -playing- guitar :)

[Duffy]

I have noticed significant audible differences between the cheap thin guitar cables packaged with cheap guitars, than with half way decent, thick as I can find without paying too much, cables by various mfg's.

I perceive a very distinct difference in sound between the two type cables mentioned above. They are absolutely not sonically equal in my experience.

Now these cables packaged with cheap guitars are very thin and look funky. Maybe we are not even considering these super cheap, junky cables in this comparison of the values of various cables, because they absolutely don't compare with half way decent cables.