What would you do?

[Spudman]

I would appreciate hearing how you guys would handle this situation.

I've been spending the last few weeks woodshedding to learn 40 new to me tunes so that I can play with another cover band. Rehearsals are 130 miles away and I've been to two.

The band leader is a very accomplished, relatively speaking, musician and plays keys. He needs players who are able to travel so I took the gig. There are several gigs on the books now.

I learned all the material in the proper keys, learned all my parts correctly and mastered the tempos. I was good to go. I show up and he says we play everything faster than the original and we do a few in different keys. Problem for me is that the tempos are so high that there is no space and little groove or pocket. It just feels like rushing through the song. THEN, he drops key elements of songs, shortens solos, and leaves little room for musical expression. "This is how WE do it" is what he says. There is no other member of the band that I've talked to that likes the tempo issue including the lead singer who is his girlfriend.

I went last night with a very experienced drummer that is trained in music scholastically and we both hated it. He was flustered, I was flustered and we were not happy as we were driving several hours back home in a blinding snow storm on ice covered roads.

My question is - do I suck it up and play as the leader wishes or do I back out because I feel I'll be locked into a non expressive box? What is your take?

Please ask questions if I seem unclear or have left out points that would help you to be better informed. I really need to settle this right away.

[deeaa]

I'd approach it as a gain/loss calculation. Do you need to be in that particular cover group, could you find a nicer one maybe closer too? Is there something to gain for you from it worth hanging on?

Because, ultimately, if it's his band it's his way or the highway - I see no point in arguing about it or fighting the situation - I'd just consider if I'm getting something from it that justifies the compliance.

That said, I'd never get in a band where just practice run is so long...in fact, I would hardly be in a band that practiced more than 4-5 miles away from me, I'm so lazy :-)

[Algonquin]

From where I stand, it looks like all the warning signs are there. I would likely thank them for the opportunity, but decline any further involvement.

You don't want to be the guy getting slapped in the head for not living up to unrealistic expectations... life is too short for that nonsense. Peace!

[R_of_G]

I guess the question I'd ask myself in that situation was what I'd like to get out of playing with that band. If there's nothing to be gained other than frustration, it's probably not worth the travel.

Some people are perfectly content to just play as a band-leader requires if they have other projects through which they can express their own creativity. Other would prefer to have some input into at least their own contribution. You'll have to figure out which you are with respect to this project.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck. Hope it works out however is best for you.

[Robert]

Tough one, if you need the money, suck it up. If not, start a new band and play all those new songs you learned!

[Katastrophe]

It's a tough situation, but if it were me, I'd back out. Now. If the keyboardist's personality is that strong and unyielding, and the other band members don't like what he's doing to the tunes, but stay anyway, that spells trouble down the road.

The travel is pretty crazy, too. I think by staying you are going to put in a lot of time, energy, and money into a project that won't be artistically satisfying, and you would have almost no say in the band.

You might ask him what your role is supposed to be in this band. Does he want a full fledged member? Does he just want a paid sideman? If he says that you're a full member of the band AND still don't get a say in the arrangement of the tunes, then there's your answer. If he just wants a paid sideman, then you have to decide if that's what you want to do for all that travel and time.

Good luck, man, and I hope it works out.

[piebaldpython]

I've been spending the last few weeks woodshedding to learn 40 new to me tunes so that I can play with another cover band. Rehearsals are 130 miles away and I've been to two.

It's a cover band.....so what can you possibly get out of it other than aggravation??? If it was NEW and ORIGINAL music, especially something that was way different than what you normally played in the bands you have been in, then suck it up and maybe experience/learn something new, even if the guy is a prick.

But that isn't the case here and my advice would be to say thanks but no thanks for the opportunity. It ain't worth the hassle.

[Perfect Stranger]

Life's too short to settle.....tell'em to "F" off and walk.

[Spudman]

Thanks guys. Every one of those replies is excellent and echoes what I feel in my heart too. It just doesn't match up to my ideal of a cover/dance band and artistically I'll gain nothing from it. The money isn't that great either.

I already have my own band, and you might remember from last year I was posting about it, and we played almost every week. Two members moved out of town and this December I found two replacements that are very capable. We've done a couple of local gigs to very good reviews. Both new members have professional jobs and families and don't want to work as often as I do so that is why I was going to fill in with the other band. It looks as if now I'll have to make a new plan.

I do appreciate the input.

[NWBasser]

I would have hit "stop" at 130 miles. That's way too far for a rehearsal.

Going a step further though, if he insists on rushing the tunes at the expense of the groove, then that band will go nowhere. Rushed tunes will drive customers off the dance floor and out of the venue. That fact alone makes the proposition a dead-end.

Hopefully all of your work in learning the tunes will serve you in another band or playing situation.

[Monkus]

life is too short for that nonsense.

the signs are there, playing is supposed to be worth it. Run for it !

[sumitomo]

Never know Spud,it might be a good experience for ya,so that when you play with your band,you'll throw more heart and soul into it.Sumi:D

[Brian Krashpad]

It'd have to be some really good dosh for me to consider driving that far in the first place, so it'd have to be really GREAT green to consider it under the additional circumstances you describe.

Of course, this is coming from someone who's been in well over a dozen bands, none of which ever made dick in terms of cash, so consider the source.

;)

[Spudman]

It'd have to be some really good dosh for me to consider driving that far in the first place, so it'd have to be really GREAT green to consider it under the additional circumstances you describe.

Of course, this is coming from someone who's been in well over a dozen bands, none of which ever made dick in terms of cash, so consider the source.

;)

The idea was that it would lead to greener pastures. His 'in town' musicians wont go out of town and I was hoping that after several out of town gigs I would end up with many of the lucrative 'in town' gigs. I want to get into that market. This is a resort community market with a LOT of money. $3-$5 K for a one night wedding gig is pretty normal. Same area that a guy has The Canadian Tenors sing at his birthday.

Recently several new bands have cropped up and the older more established groups in the area are not able to land gigs so that is why he is traveling outside the area.

Now that I look at the situation, the local hot musicians have worked with him briefly and no longer will do so. I thought about that after the first rehearsal. I was asking myself, "if he's so good why don't the great players that I know gig with him, why is he having trouble finding musicians?"

[progrmr]

Man it really sounds like you'd be at the mercy of this guy the whole time you'd be in the band. I guess it kind of depends on whether or not it bugs you to be treated like a "hired gun" instead of a member of the band.

Me - I'd be outta there, but then again I don't have very high aspirations when it comes to being in a band :)

[NWBasser]

Now that I look at the situation, the local hot musicians have worked with him briefly and no longer will do so. I thought about that after the first rehearsal. I was asking myself, "if he's so good why don't the great players that I know gig with him, why is he having trouble finding musicians?"

Well, the way you describe him rearranging songs, I can easily see that putting off a lot of musicians. Rushed tempos, dropped solos, etc. isn't exactly the way to endear yourself with other musos (or club/bar owners).

The way the situation is presented, it looks like his best bet would be to have his gf sing while he plays keys and everything else is sampled.

[Eric]

Well, since you mentioned the added info about breaking into a scene, it muddies the picture a bit. I was going to say go for it if you're OK with it ending probably within a couple of months. It's hard to keep playing with someone you don't like much, because eventually the music itself is no longer a driving factor.

However...that might be all you need. Any time you want to change situations, I think there's a point where you have to pay your dues. Unfortunately, this might be just that.

How much do you want to play these types of gigs you talk about? Would that be sustainable if you broke into that scene? How long would it take for you to establish yourself? Is this the best opportunity you're going to have for getting your foot in the door?

Those are the questions I'd have if I was you. Good luck, man.

[mrmudcat]

:running :running :running.......................nuff said


I love money but will never compromise my freedom of artistic expression for any amount of greenbacks..nor will my sons:poke

[kiteman]

Speed it up? Change keys? Drop this and that?

Why ??

That guy sound like a card, walk away.

[Spudman]

He's actually a pretty good guy. He just has a twisted version of music and how to present it.

He's played with Marvin Gaye and was a member of The Soul Searchers. He knows music but doesn't seem to really know music as an art I guess.

[otaypanky]

Sounds horrible! Geez, you are way more tolerant than I could ever be Spud.
But you make it sound like there's some good $ pickins out there. Why not grab what's left of your old band and hook up with a couple of the not so thrilled players out there and stake out some new turf?

One of the fellows on another forum I frequent has this saying in his signature - If you're bored, you're not groovin'

[oldguy]

I wouldn't do it.

[street music]

SPUD, it sounds as if you are better off staying out of this band. From what you have said their doesn't seem to be much of a future in a job you dislike from the beginning and from what you have said it sounds more like a job than a enjoyable gig.
You are a good musician that loves playing and I'm sure that you can put together a band that will get plenty of local gigs, just change up the set list, keep it fresh and throw in something new in each show.
One of friends is about to go back on the road again, he is a great bass player and backup singer, his first gig is in Texas and will play in that area for at least a month before moving to another state, he had a hard time deciding to go back out but the money is good and rest of the band works well together, so I think it will be a good year for him even if it is a country act.

[Spudman]

Thanks Street. I already do have a good band and I'll get some local gigs no problem.

The gig I turned down just happened to be in my old stomping grounds and there is usually some fat bank associated with playing there. I can find another way to get into that market without sacrificing my soul, which is what I would have been doing.

I went to the second rehearsal this past Tuesday with a very experienced, seasoned and conservatory trained drummer, and he was even more frustrated than I was. He says he never gets that way. We drove back together in a blizzard at 25-35 miles per hour for about 80 miles so we had some time to talk. Basically we both kept talking about how bad it felt and we felt. He then said, "Steve, if it would have been a good thing we'd be having a completely different conversation." That made sense to me.

I also have been thinking that if the band leader/keyboardist is really so good, how come isn't he playing with the local hot guys and is struggling to keep musicians? There are some world class players in that town, Jennifer Batten's ex drummer is there along with several national recording artists. Those guys all love good players, so why isn't this guy on their call list? That realization also spoke to me.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, and I do realize that you only get one perspective of the issue from me. Still, I heard echoes of what I was feeling and I just know that I'd be miserable if I would have stuck it out.

[marnold]

Group hug!

[Jimi75]

Spud, if you wanna make musical experiences you don't plan on joining a coverband, where the keyboardist is the bandleader, do you? I thought you were wiser ;-)

Changing keys is something you have to live with in such bands. Imagine the singer get sick and the support sings in a slightly different register. For us guitarists this is alwas a problem, as playing with a capo sucks in a way. The keys push one button and that's it. But being in a professional enviroment requires flexibility.

I played a gig with a very well known German gospel choir 2 years ago. They let me kow which songs we will play, I studied the songs and at the first rehearsal the maestro changed the keys. It was a bummer, but I made my way through the set and played the gig.

What was your motivation to join that gig? 130 miles for the rehearsal etc., I doubt you are depending on the money, are you?

In the end you are free to leave the gig. Bear in mind that creativity and expression are rare in cover bands (not valid for Blues cover bands ;-)).

I personally wouldn't spend my energy on discussing with the bandleader, because then you are moving things to the "grey" zone.

Make it a black or white decision. Stay and suck it up like a man, or leave like a man!

If you don't like the way the music is organized, forget about the gig! It's all about music and having fun. You don't have to argue or explain about that with a keyboard freak and his girl.
You have spend 40 hours in learning the material. Well, you probably learned something doing so and hey, you played guitar. That's a cool fact. Don't see it as a waste of time.

I would play that one gig and then leave.

[Jipes]

My question is - do I suck it up and play as the leader wishes or do I back out because I feel I'll be locked into a non expressive box? What is your take?

Please ask questions if I seem unclear or have left out points that would help you to be better informed. I really need to settle this right away.

I would quit, life is too short to have to stand little despotic people and if you don't feel good you won't play any better and the frustration will run in closed circuit :thwap

[Spudman]

I would quit, life is too short to have to stand little despotic people and if you don't feel good you won't play any better and the frustration will run in closed circuit :thwap

That's exactly what I could see coming down the road.

I'm musician enough to handle some changes no problem. It was more the demeanor of the leader, and after being given songs to learn as "covers" showing up to rehearsal and getting part way through the song only to crash when he then mentioned "we don't do the bridge in "Da Do Do Do" and you only get half as long to do the solo in "Come Together" and we changed the chords in "Sarah Smile". That's when I knew that this really wasn't a cover band but some bastard form of a band that wasn't capable of really covering a song with any integrity. I didn't feel good about that.

[street music]

Anyone who would destroy "Come Together" is not on my list of bands to listen too.:spank

[DeanEVO_Dude]

...
Now that I look at the situation, the local hot musicians have worked with him briefly and no longer will do so. I thought about that after the first rehearsal. I was asking myself, "if he's so good why don't the great players that I know gig with him, why is he having trouble finding musicians?"

I think that your "hammer of question" just found the head of the nail, and drove it home...

[oldguy]

That's when I knew that this really wasn't a cover band but some bastard form of a band that wasn't capable of really covering a song with any integrity. I didn't feel good about that.

And so you made the correct choice, both logically and morally.
Good for you. :thumbsup

[Brian Krashpad]

That's when I knew that this really wasn't a cover band but some bastard form of a band that wasn't capable of really covering a song with any integrity.

I would point out however that the above sentence accurately describes every band I've ever been in.

[Commodore 64]

I would point out however that the above sentence accurately describes every band I've ever been in.

And every one I foresee myself ever being able to play in (not for lack of trying though, of course).