Why aren't guitarists happy with their tones?

[deeaa]

It seems to me, no matter what gear, pretty much every guitarist keeps changing their tones all the time. Usually gear too, to achieve that end.

Why is it that we strive for some 'gold standard' which is nothing but make-believe _on record_ and not what you would get playing that studio rig live?

I'll say this much: I believe I have better or as good a tone out of my gear as _anybody_ ever did. And I mean NOBODY ever, any artist, got better tones (for the type of tone of course).

Now, that's what _I_ think. You may not think my tone the greatest. But why don't you make your tone what YOU want it to be, instead of striving to get 'the tone he and he got on that album' etc.

I admit it, I cannot record my tone as well as I'd like. I don't have a multimillion studio or production crew and mixing wizards to use. Thus I do hear tones on record that are better than what I get on record. But not hugely better. I'm sure my sound is as good as they were in the studio.

Besides, tones are always per song. Money For Nothing may have a great tone to guitar, but it can't be used for many a song.

Then there are some artists who never change their basic tone...Angus and Neil Young have never changed their gear and tone throughout their career - they sound completely different on each album, because the studio and producers were different.

Why do people fall into the trap of trying to achieve with gear changes, what actually is like 48% studio magic and 48% in your fingers and mere few percent to do with the gear used?

Let's discuss!

[sunvalleylaw]

I am generally happy with my tones. Not always my technique, but my tones are generally good.

[Tig]

I'm very pleased with my quiver of tones, be it guitar > cable > Egnater Tweaker,
or guitar > HD500 > Tweaker. The HD500 is a GAS killer.
I've D/L'ed HD500 user's patches and adjusted them to my ear, so there is little else I want or need.

That said, I'd like to get a Fender Mustang to be my second amp to split dual signal to, and a Tele for variety.

[Eric]

Honestly? I think it's because listening to music is what inspires guitarists to play in the first place. Where do you hear that music? From albums. You want to sound like that.

Your point is a good one, but it's not one that's particularly obvious to somebody who doesn't have a lot of experience playing and recording. I tend to think that guitar playing brings out the analytical side in a lot of people, and they want to know what each type of amp does for you and your sound/playing/etc. Enough is never enough, because there's always some new technology coming out that might change everything (e.g. AxeFX or modeling in general).

There's a point at which your tone is so bad that it makes you hate the electric guitar. Similarly, there's a point at which your tone is so good it makes you love the guitar. I think people always want to get as close to the latter as possible, hence the unending gear hunt.

Lastly, I don't think everyone picks a tone and sticks with it for their entire life. Many people change styles, which leads to another huge hunt. It's very similar to how everyone feels the need to be everything and to be the best at it.

[Eric]

BTW Dee, watch this turn into a I-don't-know-what-you're-talking-about-I-love-my-tone-I'm-not-insecure thread. I could be wrong, but your initial post makes me think that's the fate of this thread.

[deeaa]

Lol I hope not, Eric...well you raise an interesting point. Does everyone go thru the same phases?

For me, the first 5 years or so I played, it was just a matter of getting gear that would do the job. Never had money to buy what I wanted, but not that keen on achieving any particular sound. Just the best I could with what I had.

Then another 5 years or more, didn't have the time to bother searching for tones; just gigged almost like working etc. and didn't really change my gear in a decade.

It was really only after I stopped gigging and mainly just played home that I became obsessed with sounds and tried dozen amps and guitars nd pickups...and only in recent years have finally gotten to a point I know how to get just the sound I want with many different gear pieces or amps even. I used to think I was late to find my niche but of late it seems it's quite the opposite for many people.

[sunvalleylaw]

BTW Dee, watch this turn into a I-don't-know-what-you're-talking-about-I-love-my-tone-I'm-not-insecure thread. I could be wrong, but your initial post makes me think that's the fate of this thread.


LOL! Eric, you nailed me. I did start it out that way. But it's true for me! Re: why others do what they do, a common objection made in court is against testimony that is speculative, particularly if it is speculation about what is in the mind of another. I can't help but think that way because that is how I was trained. But setting legal style logic aside, i could guess at others' motivations. One could be that it is easier to mess around with gear, talk about gear, etc., than to work on your own technique and sounds given what you have. Another would be that your mind hears something in music you hear that you don't find right away in your own gear, so you go looking.

[Jimi75]

Yeah, Eric's a pretty honest guy who gives away the weakest point of every guitarist. Bassists never suffer from the I-hate-my-tone syndrome. But honestly after more than 20 years I got my nice tones together and made a huge improve with the purchase of my JTM45 and my OCD pedal. There is only one tone that I still haven't reached, it's the Eric Gales kinda Strat grit tone, hollow woody sounding...you know what I'm talking about. Overall I had times where I was on the tone quest, but somehow I have reached a good point in my search. Eric, you are absolutely right with the fact that our imagination of good tone changes with the music we listen to.

[R_of_G]

Bassists never suffer from the I-hate-my-tone syndrome.

Ha! I know a bass player you should meet who obsesses over his tone like... well like the guitarists Dee was describing. :)

Eric's answer is pretty much how I see it as well, particularly with the bit about being analytical. My personal quest for tone isn't necessarily to find the tones guitarists I admire used because I want to sound like them when I play. It's more about trying to figure out how they did it so I have a better understanding of what effects/settings make which sounds. It's a nice "a-ha!" moment when I stumble upon a setting that sounds like something I know. Mostly, I'm just addicted to tone.

[pictoratus]

For me it's about trying to find that tone I hear in my head. With relatively little experience on six string, I haven't gotten enough gear time to know what will give me which tone.

So it's try this and try that until I get more knowledge under my belt.

[tjcurtin1]

I have decided that most of tone is in the hands - and fingers - of the player and only to a smaller extent to the gear. Robert is a great example that I have seen with other pro level players - they can play on what many of us would consider 'lesser grade' - and even 'low-end' gear (see/hear Robert on the $50. Fullerton strat, or any of his Squiers) - his tone is pretty damn good on all of it, and if you didn't KNOW that he was playing 'lesser' gear there, I doubt that you would ever guess it. So I have also decided that if I want good tone, I need to shop less and play more - and I mean play the guitar, not play around with more gear. I am, little by little more pleased with the tones I am getting, and look forward to developing better skills to better my tone.

[Tig]

Maybe it is because every other gear ad has the marketing bonus word "tone" in it? :whatever:
It will make you drop your magazine subscriptions! :nope

[Waylanderau]

I have decided that most of tone is in the hands - and fingers - of the player and only to a smaller extent to the gear. Robert is a great example that I have seen with other pro level players - they can play on what many of us would consider 'lesser grade' - and even 'low-end' gear (see/hear Robert on the $50. Fullerton strat, or any of his Squiers) - his tone is pretty damn good on all of it, and if you didn't KNOW that he was playing 'lesser' gear there, I doubt that you would ever guess it. So I have also decided that if I want good tone, I need to shop less and play more - and I mean play the guitar, not play around with more gear. I am, little by little more pleased with the tones I am getting, and look forward to developing better skills to better my tone.

This. About 2 years ago when I started playing in a band again seriously myself and the other guitarist went amp shopping, as we both needed amps with a little more kick than what we had. We tried a lot of different stuff, different brands, different types of amp (tube, solid state, hybrid, digital whatever) And although we both found something we liked in the end, a horrible truth dawned on me during the testing process: It's me. It's not the amp, guitar or anything else. It's me. And guess what? I spent a little more time practicing and improving my technique and sure enough my tone improved. I think that's the root of the problem, we go chasing awesome sounds and tones that we hear on records or at gigs or whatever and think the secret is in the gear, and forget that at the end of the day it sounds that way because of the guy (or girl) who's playing it. That being said I'm a complete hypocrite who's GASing for an Engl Special Edition so I can sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FgjfcKuuo
:D

[deeaa]

Yes I think there is the key. As long as the gear is in the ballpark - like an active bucker and at least somewhat marshally-able amp for me - I can get a nice enough tone. Ultimately it's more about how than what you play.

But, coveting for amps is no different from coveting a ferrari for instance - it's fun even purely aesthetically, let alone other niceties. It's feeling good to have gotten out of the endless search for perfect gear, but equally nice to own and use nice new gear too.

[Jimi75]

I also believe that good tone is somehow in the fingers. Some guys have it , some not. In this thread though I understood tone being the tone that a certain equipment can produce. To me my Marshall plus my OCD produces a certain creamy, bluesy tone, in the end it's "in my fingers" what I make out of it, but the ingredients are set.

[oldguy]

Why aren't guitarists happy with their tones?

I think everyone's touched on some very good points here.
Personally, I'd say I like my sound, tone, whatever.......most......of the time.

When I can't get a setting or sound that's quite right, I'm bored with my playing, and I need to learn something new. I'm in a rut and no amount of equipment change or adjustment is going to supply that elusive missing ingredient.
I agree that what's going on with the fingers makes a difference. Sometimes it can be as simple as not overplaying, playing a lick or phrase differently than you're used to, or substituting a chord for one you usually play.

I've gone through periods where I thought a better tone was just a new guitar/amph/effect away from what I had. I found out if the gear you have is quality and you know how to use it, that's good enough.
Another factor is what tone you're after to start with. Albert Collins and Jimi Hendrix were both blues based players, but it takes more gear to get Jimi's sounds, with the octaver, uni-vibe, fuzz, and other stuff he had going on. They were both great players, but had uniquely different tone from their gear. I can imagine the frustration if, after years of practicing, playing, and getting Jimi's sound down, I heard Albert's playing and wanted to get his sound.........it'd be back to the drawing board, and "I'm not happy with my tone!":thwap

[Tig]

I guess I see things a little differently... While there is certainly overlap, I think "technique" gets labeled "tone" too often. I don't mean style or skill, but actual touch (I know, they intermingle). Sure tone starts in how we pluck, strum, pick, mute, and play the strings,
but I like to separate tone more into the many components that shape it, such as:
potentiometers, string gauge/material, bridge design, nut, capacitors, pickups, body/neck wood, effects, amps, and speakers, etc...

Technique and tone are such huge areas, they deserve their own distinction when warranted.

Just sayin'... :wave:

[wingsdad]

There's something to it in all of the above posts, but I believe heavily in the 'it's in the hands - technique with both of them - camp, and application of those techniques befitting the combination of gear & settings. It's a symbiotic relationship, a sum of the parts, no single thing.

OTH, tinnitus (sp?) caused by standing in front of a dimed 500 watt Double Stack of 4x12's for 3 hours a night 3 or 4 or 5 nights a week could have something to do with hating your tone....

[marnold]

Yeah, Eric's a pretty honest guy who gives away the weakest point of every guitarist. Bassists never suffer from the I-hate-my-tone syndrome.
In general, I believe you are correct about bassists. However, tour the TalkBass forums sometime and you'll think differently. Back when I was playing, other than slobbering over a high-end Spector, I could have plugged my Peavey P-Bass into my Peavey combo and let 'er rip for the rest of my life.

For me personally, it was just figuring out who I am as a guitar player. As much as I admire SRV, I really don't want to play like him. Took me a long time to figure that out. I'd much rather play like my other main hero, George Lynch. Even at that, though, it's more of a general thing rather than an "I will imitate him in every aspect of everything" thing. Since I've gotten my Dinky and my Jet City I've been consistently happy with how I sound. Now it's a matter of getting my chops up to snuff.

Part of the reason, I'm sure, is because there is new cool stuff coming out all the time. Someone who is really into playing is going to want to try this stuff out. Lynch seems to have this perfectionist quality to him when it comes to tone. The problem is I don't think he really knows what "perfection" is or if it even really exists. I would describe that more as a neurosis than anything else. Really creative people do have this tendency to be nuttier than hoot owls. Of course, pro players who make it big have the wherewithal to fund gear acquisitions.

[Tig]

OTH, tinnitus caused by standing in front of a dimed 500 watt Double Stack of 4x12's for 3 hours a night 3 or 4 or 5 nights a week could have something to do with hating your tone....

And another signature is born! :rollover
Good one, wingsdad

[ZMAN]

I was on a tone quest for many years. Then I happened to see a youtube video of Joe Bonamassa at the Albert hall. I finally found, as was described above "the tone in my head" . Joe will tell you with great relish how he achieves that tone, and it makes it somewhat easy to get in that zone using similar equipment. I have done that and I am more than pleased with the results. I have to work on the technique, and I have a very harsh critic. (Me) so I am working hard at it. As Albert King said "the better you get the harder you should work".

[Katastrophe]

I guess I see things a little differently... While there is certainly overlap, I think "technique" gets labeled "tone" too often. I don't mean style or skill, but actual touch (I know, they intermingle). Sure tone starts in how we pluck, strum, pick, mute, and play the strings,
but I like to separate tone more into the many components that shape it, such as:
potentiometers, string gauge/material, bridge design, nut, capacitors, pickups, body/neck wood, effects, amps, and speakers, etc...

Technique and tone are such huge areas, they deserve their own distinction when warranted.

Just sayin'... :wave:

This. PLUS:

1. Marketing that says if you don't have this piece of equipment, your tone will suffer, and you'll sound like crap.
2. "Shiny New Car Syndrome" - We see that shiny new car on a dealership lot and want it, just because it's new and shiny, and different from the same ol' car we drive right now.
3. Definitions of what good tone is change with guitarists over time.
4. Our ears change everyday. Stuff sounds different from day to day. One day's good tone is tomorrow's audio poopoo.
5. We get new guitar heroes, and want to sound "just like them."

That's all I can think of for now...

[NWBasser]

Bassists never suffer from the I-hate-my-tone syndrome.

Bwahahaha! LOL!

FYI, many, if not most, bassists are as particular about tone as guitarists. However, where a guitarist will usually pursue many different tones for varying purposes, a bass player will most often go to great lengths to find a single tone that works with their style.

It's sort of comical in a way, because in the soundwash of a live stage situation nuances in bass tone are mostly lost.

[Eric]

It's sort of comical in a way, because in the soundwash of a live stage situation nuances in bass tone are mostly lost.
No kidding. Count guitars in that statement too. I'm slowly but surely learning said lesson.

[wingsdad]

And another signature is born! :rollover
Good one, wingsdad
Thanks, Tig :) That was an accident.

Reviewing this thread, I can say that I have a wide variety tones I like to employ, divided into 'families' of tones best attained by applying a particular type of guitar to that mystical, elusive relationship formula of hands, fingers, gear and all that stuff the gear's made of. All for a variety of styles, for what a particular song calls for.

And, as many have said, it's about what will produce 'that tone in my head'. My STRAT is my longtime main workhorse, but it can't do it all. And that's why I, like many, have tried to gather '1 of each' type, perhaps limited to the range of styles we enjoy or are addicted to: a strat, tele, an LP-type, a 335-type, a Rick 12.

Then there's acoustic guitar tones I like and employ, but that's not the intent/topic of this discussion.

[Waylanderau]

Some really good points being made in this thread. Incidently, I re-read my previous post and I think I got a little carried away with my rant. Kinda came across like I meant if you're not happy with your sound it's ALL your fault because you suck. That was not my intention, so I'm sorry if that offended anyone. I think what I was driving at is that we can get caught up in the idea that if we get that one special piece of gear then everything will be perfect, and even continue to chop and change our rigs trying to sound "better", even if we are pretty happy with our sound at the time. As several others have pointed out this tendency seems to be compounded on a daily basis by gear companies who all promise to offer the thing you need.
To back up that idea I just have to look at myself: Right now, I'm as happy with my setup and tone as I've ever been... and yet I still go trawling youtube looking at amp demos and ebay looking for great deals because maybe if I spend some more cash I can find a better sound than what I have.
I can't help it...
Dear God I'm a monster :cry:

[rylanmartin]

I like the struggle for new tone. I feel that as a guitar player, that drive for new sounds spurs me to new levels of creativity. I've found that I've been the LEAST creative when I've been most comfortable with my tone. There's nothing like picking up an unfamiliar guitar and plugging it into an unfamiliar signal path and seeing where that takes your fingers. It's all about creativity.

[Eric]

I like the struggle for new tone. I feel that as a guitar player, that drive for new sounds spurs me to new levels of creativity. I've found that I've been the LEAST creative when I've been most comfortable with my tone. There's nothing like picking up an unfamiliar guitar and plugging it into an unfamiliar signal path and seeing where that takes your fingers. It's all about creativity.
That's a good point that I hadn't really considered.

[NWBasser]

As a guitarist, and I use the term loosely, I really have only two tones that seem to fit me.
One is a Les Paul on the bridge pickup through an overdriven tube amp. The Blackstar HT-5 nails it perfectly. Couldn't ask for any more.

Second tone is a Les Paul clean on the neck pickup. I'm pretty happy with my H&K on clean in this regard.

I've tried all sorts of other sounds, but those are the ones that I'm quite happy to work with.

[Eric]

As a guitarist, and I use the term loosely, I really have only two tones that seem to fit me.
One is a Les Paul on the bridge pickup through an overdriven tube amp. The Blackstar HT-5 nails it perfectly. Couldn't ask for any more.
Do you have a Blackstar HT-5? That's an amph I've been lusting after recently. I thought you just had your Cube 30 and H&K.

[Tarin]

I agree with all the posts concerning more on the "technique" issue other than the "necessary gear" to obtain a tone i like.
With me, the story went like this... i started playing guitar at 32 (will be 36 this April), i bought my mandatory Squier guitar to start off. The hunt began with a below $200 dollar amp search, so i went to my nearby music shops and started trying out Peavey's, Fender's Line 6 and others... well, actaully it was me and my cousin who happens to play guitar (i could'nt play squat at the time), so while HE was playing, i was actually LISTENING to what i liked... no artist influence here. VOX whas it.

Months later, i started blaming the guitar so i started to look for an upgrade semi-top-notch guitar. i tried a few looking for comfort, not tone. landed on a Parker P-38 (my wife saw me drooling over a Gresch Corvette once, so she got it for me on Xmass).
Then i started blaming the effect pedal i used (by this time i could play a few riffs and songs decently) and was gonna start blaming the amp also when i met a guy who really knows how to play... i mean REALLY knows, he's a graduate from a music conservatory and such, well, he played my gear once, i started to tweak here and there and with MY GEAR and HIS TECHNIQUE, me tweaking... i got the tone i know i like.
Conclusion: techinque my boy!

This is why i still have my 2 guitars and the same VOX 15R amp (which is recuperating from a recent surgery), and stopped the "tone hunt" untill i achieve it with what i have at hand (i know it can be done... and i'm almost there).

Edit: i must point out that i'm a bedroon rockstar, have never gigged.

[bcdon]

I'm a newbie so take this for what it is worth -- probably nothing -- but it seems to me that guitarists think they can buy something (new guitar, amph, &c) and they'll all of a sudden be better. It's kind of like the buy-a-better-car to pick up the babes outlook. Both don't work. The only thing that works is.... work. The bad part about this simple truth is that excellence requires time and practice; the good part about it is that it's free. With that, I'm going back to my glass of wine and LP. :dude

[NWBasser]

Do you have a Blackstar HT-5? That's an amph I've been lusting after recently. I thought you just had your Cube 30 and H&K.

Well, no Blackstar just yet. I do have the H&K and it does sound pretty good.

The Blackstar really nails the sound that I'd like to have.

I just have to save up some $$ for one though.

[gregsguitars]

Most of us can not play regularly at the volumes needed to induce our guitars to really sing or our amps to really reach that dynamic arena that most of the recordings we love are produced at, I find when I can shake the windows with my rig it really dynamically opens into new unrealized tonal zones.