Squier Strat Issues.

[piratejohnrob]

Okay, first I know this cheap Squier version of a Strat will never play like a "real" guitar. That much I can accept. My problem may have some to do with being spoiled I have been playing bass in gigging bands for over a decade and have rarely played anything less professional than a Les Paul Studio. Now I am learning guitar in hopes of starting my own project and got this Squier as a starter guitar. The action is TERRIBLE, I have tried everything short of taking it to a Luthier because I am in Germany for the next year I probably can't. I have adjusted the truss rod according to a guitar setup manual I bought adjusted the saddles (almost bottomed out) and still the action is worse than any guitar I have ever played. Any suggestions.

[Tig]

Which type of Squier Strat are you talking about? The older ones really were crap in most cases, as are some of the lower end new ones as well. Truss rod adjustments gone wrong can make a bad neck worse.

Go with any Classic Vibe series and you'll be in good shape with minimal set up required for many. The quality of these is surprisingly good.

[piratejohnrob]

Affinity series.

[duhvoodooman]

If you can't get the action (which I assume from your description is too high) down to a usable height, you may need to shim the neck in the pocket--basically put a spacer between the body and the neck right down at the heel, to angle the neck back from the body. Here are a couple of references to check out:

http://www.articlekarma.com/Article/Understanding-The-Purpose-Of-The-Guitar-Neck-Shim/8660

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/nckshim.htm

This assumes that other factors that affect action are OK: the neck itself is straight (or very slightly concave), the nut and bridge heights are proper, etc. Have you checked the neck straightness with a good straight-edge?

[progrmr]

One thing I've noticed about strats is that the action is typically higher than lots of other guitars. When I'm up above the 15th fret doing bends my fingers go under the lower strings - this after a pro setup by a local luthier. The action on strats isn't supposed to be shred-master low. On a Peavey Predator I recently picked up I initially set the action very low and wasn't happy with the way it played at all. So I put a little relief in the neck and raised the saddles - wooola! Nice player.

Kinda depends on what you like I guess - a pro setup would be the best way to see what a pro says it should be setup like.

[deeaa]

Naah, you can certainly make any cheap Squire play just as well or even better than a ten-grand Fender, it's just mechanics.
Only do remember that strats have a smaller radius fretboard so they never are extreme shredders.

If the actual parts are OK i.e. not warped that is...then to get good action you may need to do one or more of the following, impossible to say without seeing.

- Adjust neck
- Adjust bridge parts
- Adjust intonation
- Shim the neck
- File/dress the frets
- Adjust bridge
- Install/adjust saddle
- Swap frets

[piratejohnrob]

Lots of great advice here. First I am inclined to agree with progrmr that most strats are not designed to be a "shredder" that I can deal with. The shim looks like it may work, I was hoping to avoid doing this as it requires me to remove the neck of my guitar and it may never play the same. I would love to take it to a professional but I am currently living in Germany until next year and the local guitar shop is run by a man who knows VERY little about guitars. I went in last week for some picks, I was standing at the counter looking at the Dunlop picks behind his head and (in German so no language barrier) said, " I would like 6 .38mm and 12 .60mm Dunlop picks." He looked at me like I was crazy. Anyhow I would not leave my instruments in his care after that. What I am thinking the best course of action is, is to play with the crazy action a few months until I save enough to buy a better guitar. (LP Studio?)

[duhvoodooman]

...The shim looks like it may work, I was hoping to avoid doing this as it requires me to remove the neck of my guitar and it may never play the same.
Not to be flippant, but with an inexpensive Squier Affinity series guitar, the response of "So what?" comes to mind. Doesn't sound like it's really playable as is....

[piratejohnrob]

Not to be flippant, but with an inexpensive Squier Affinity series guitar, the response of "So what?" comes to mind. Doesn't sound like it's really playable as is....

So true, I think I will be making a trip to the BauMarkt (Gemany's answer to Home Depot) tomorrow. Should I just buy some wood shims like one would use for framing a house and sand them or what? Any suggestions.

[duhvoodooman]

Should I just buy some wood shims like one would use for framing a house and sand them or what? Any suggestions.
I've never undertaken this myself, so you would be better off doing some internet research on the shimming technique. Those links I posted above may have some good leads. As I understand it, the best approach is to use a wedge-shaped shim to support the neck more evenly and insure more thorough contact between neck & body.

[stingx]

DVM is right. I would try a shim. Truss rod is not really for action. You want to first ensure proper relief them adjust saddle height to your preference keeping in mind the height for each along the radius. If you are not able to set it reasonably low without buzzing you can then try a shim to give a bit of lift to help you in this regard. If this doesn't help you more than likely will need a fret leveling as a fret or frets are not their proper height and hitting the strings.

Also the comment about strays inherently having higher action is nonsense - I have the action incredibly low on my JV and there isn't any buzzing and plays as fast as my Charvel's neck. Learning how to adjust your guitar(s) is a great skill to learn. No one knows how you like your guitar to play like you do.

[deeaa]

Of course you _can_ set the action just as low on a strat, it just won't work well for bends simply due to 7" something radius fretboards on classic strats...that's why you will never be able to get _quite_ as crazy low an action as on a fretboard with like 20" radius or so....but well low enough anyway...still, it's no bull and a big reason for having super flat fretboards is indeed getting the action crazy low.

For shimming, don't bother with wood shims, you will find you actually need VERY little shim there to change the angle quite significantly, wood is almost certainly overkill.

At some point, strats used to come with 3 screws where the 3rd one adjusted the angle; having the neck sit in the pocket supported by one metal bit didn't however entirely ruin the sound even on those, so never mind about perfect contact there...I've seen for instance metal spacers placed in the pocket and that works OK as well.

What I'd recommend is use sanding paper; any grit, but try some rather coarse like 80 maybe. Cut 2 bits of sanding paper, one that's like half the size and one that's 1/3rd of the size and lay them in the pocket to form 'stairs' ascending towards the body so that the paper sides face each other. Or, might be just one slice of sanding paper will be enough, positioned near the back of the neck...or even three but I doubt it.

Sanding paper is thick, will stay securely in place and 'bite' into the wood well yet the grain allows for some compression and it becomes quite flat and filling when the neck is screwed in place. Try it first. Learned this from a luthier who much rather uses sanding paper than wood shims.

[piratejohnrob]

I had an idea and wondered if this would work. I repair computers and electronics for my day job and often when making a mod to device I will have to use what is basically a "shim" what I do is use different sized washers either the nylon or metal ones some of them even have "teeth" that would grip the wood. Does anyone think this might fix my problem? What I am thinking is to add one washer on the body body side screws then bolt the neck back on check the fix and add more if necessary. Thoughts?

[ZMAN]

Before you try shimming the neck I would make sure you have exhausted all other issues. Neck relief is a big factor in getting the action low. Take a straight edge and lay it on the fret board. You will see immediately if you have too much space in the middle of the neck. Also check the Nut. If the nut is too thick or has not been filed correctly the strings will be too high off the neck. The only other thing then is the bridge and saddles. I have a good tech who sets up all of my guitars. I demand as low an action as possible, and I have several Squiers that are below factory settings. In fact one of my Squier Standards has the lowest action of any of my guitars. I do not use the tremelo bar, and I have my bridge set as low as possible. That can be adjusted by using the spring tension adjustment on the back of the guitar. With that pulled down almost to touch the body, I have almost a hardtail strat. Then the saddle adjustments are all it takes to bring it down. I really have never had a guitar even as lowly as a Squier that could not be set up to my exacting standard of low action. Try this before you take the neck off and start messing with it.
As far as living in Germany I really think that you must be able to find a good tech, being a musician you should be able to network with other musicians and find a good one.

[piratejohnrob]

In fact one of my Squier Standards has the lowest action of any of my guitars. I do not use the tremelo bar, and I have my bridge set as low as possible. That can be adjusted by using the spring tension adjustment on the back of the guitar. With that pulled down almost to touch the body, I have almost a hardtail strat.

I had not considered using the spring tension I do not use the trem either so I will definitely try this first. I know there has to be some great techs here in Germany hopefully one in my area, but I have been networking. Thank you for the advice.

[deeaa]

Yes that will work very well, no doubt about it at all.

BTW the best way IMO to check the relief is fret high E on 1st stret AND with another hand at 12th fret, pick it in between. There should be enough relief that it _just_ rings freely, i.e. the neck isn't entirely flat straight but there's a very slight bow to it. If it just buzzes, loosen the screw a little and retune/retry, if there's room enough for a playing card to slide under or more, tighten it some.

The nut height is basically correct if it's not hard to fret at the 1st fret AND the first note isn't sharp. If the F is sharp, chances are the nut is a little high, VERY rarely the nut is too far from the 1st fret but I've seen that in a sub-200-dollar ESP-LTD for instance. On Squires it's usually set on the fretboard itself, not after it, and it should be exact always.

In fact I'm a bit surprised you'd have a shimming need even on a cheap Squire, it sort of makes me suspect the guitar has at some point been dropped down hard on its neck so that the impact has forced the neck to lift a little from its actual position. If that is the case, simply removing it and re-installing and tightening those screws well might be enough. Do check for any obvious pull damage to screw holes. If there's some damage, it's best to put some wood glue and matchsticks or toothpicks in the hole and then screw it back on. Wait for a few hours before stringing up if that be the case.

If all that is fine and there's only a millimetre or so of adjust room under the saddle bits then you do need to shim the neck. Those spacers will work fine, sandpaper is perhaps easier to adjust height with and doesn't create an empty space in the pocket, but I'd venture spacers will work just fine. I've seen some amazing things people have done to their guitars...one bass had its neck 'better seated' with cement (concrete!) applied in the pocket and basically glued the neck in with it...go figure what the owner had thought...but even that had worked!

When you're about to do the adjustment, loosen the strings so they're lax but still straight, remove the last two screws entirely and loosen the first ones some, so you can bend the neck a little in the pocket, watch the string heights and try to approximate how much height needs be gained with the shimming. Sometimes it's very little and might be better to just add one flat piece of sandpaper under the neck instead of tilting it at all.

It's really not hard or complicated at all, absolutely a ten-minute job for anyone with at least some common sense - no need to bother a luthier with it.

[deeaa]

Oh yeah if the bridge pulls up when string tension is applied, that'd obviously also lift the action way high...see it's about flush with the body for best results. I like to leave a teeeeeny weeny gap there because I think it affects the sound some; if it's screwed down very tight to make it a hardtail, it loses some of the liveliness with it. A big part of why a strat sounds like a strat is the trem, even when not used and torqued down quite tight.

[Duffy]

I agree with Deeaa on this. As long as the neck isn't warped or otherwise unuseable, you can make this into a decent, if not excellent guitar.

Take your time. Personally I like the sandpaper idea better than the washer idea because you can easily make small incremental changes in your shim height using the paper, plus the paper will settle equally flat across the surface it sits upon. You don't want to twist the neck because a star washer digs in more on one side than on the other.

Someone offered to sell me a super cheap used affinity Squire strat that I wasn't even going to look at, but when he showed it to me and I saw the most flammed neck I've ever seen on it, it DEFINITELY got my attention. It is an "old" black affinity and nothing worked on it except the volume knob, the wiring inside it wasn't grounded anywhere - there were no grounds soldered to the top of any pots. The once white pickguard was all cracked up and pitifully yellowed. It had obviously been "fixed" by people that didn't have much of an idea of what they were doing, many times. The guitar had been all over the world with missionaries. Not only did it look super good "to me", but it had some mojo. I got that guitar for 20 dollars.

It has one of the nicest necks I have ever seen. I knew I had to have it and bought it immediately.

I put a black oyster pickguard on it and bought some pickups and had them installed by a tech, replacing the pots, switch, etc. The pickups I bought are Seymour Duncans - all black humbucking single coils sized: a hot rails in the neck, a little 59 in the middle, and a JB Junior in the bridge. I put on Fender Locking tuners.

This is one "awesome" guitar. I let the previous owner, an excellent player, play it after I built it up. He really liked it and wanted to know all about it, where I got it, etc. It blew his mind when my son told him it was his old guitar. He couldn't believe it.

You should hear or play this guitar. It is one nice item.



I put a lot of time and work into that guitar, but it had some basic things going for it from the beginning: the action was low and there was zero buzz, the neck was unbelievable - never seen a neck like that on a Squier, and I was highly confident that it would make a decent moding platform.

You don't have to spend anywhere near as much as I did, but if you can correct that neck problem and get that action lower you might have a decent guitar to mess around with.

Have you checked the neck to make sure it is straight?

Also, if you are not familiar with strats, the tremolo and bridge plate should be almost flat to the body, not sticking up in the back like a spoiler on a car. Some people like to have the bridge flat to the body in fact. Getting the bridge close to flat to the body or flat to the body can be difficult, especially expect this after you shim that neck and put on new strings and stretch them properly. That could take some time to get the bridge down good and low to the body after you shim the neck.

I'm probably going to buy an inexpensive used made in Mexico strat that has low action and no buzz and build that up next, just for the fun of it. And I'll also have another excellent guitar when I'm done.

Like Deeaa was saying, I think you can turn that affinity into a decent guitar if you want to put some work into it; that is if the neck is usable and can be adjusted properly.

Good luck with it. There is nothing like having a decent strat, but the way it is doesn't sound like any fun. Like DVM said, you don't have anything to lose by tearing into it and trying to shim the neck. It might take a couple tries to get it right. You might want to pick up a couple sets of strings. A lot of people use 9 thru 42 strings on strats.

I hope this input helps you figure out how to try and salvage that affinity.

[Commodore 64]

You should have no trouble getting a 2mm action at fret 17 on any strat, Squier or otherwise unless something is very, very wrong. (I use a nickel as a "feeler gauge"). To lower your action put a shim near the heel of the neck pocket. For shims, I've used:

1. A strip of 80-grit sandpaper.
2. A strip of credit card.
3. A strip of business card.

Iterate until something works. As far as removing the neck making the neck "never play the same". Don't be ridiculous. The bolts are there for a reason.

[stingx]

^ I LOL at that.

I have guitars that can only be adjusted from the heel. Taking a neck off is no biggie. I actually have been doing setups for a long time and I even paid to take a class on one to learn more. I love being able to work on my own guitars. You can buy everything you need online. I even work on frets now.

[Commodore 64]

^ I LOL at that.

I have guitars that can only be adjusted from the heel. Taking a neck off is no biggie. I actually have been doing setups for a long time and I even paid to take a class on one to learn more. I love being able to work on my own guitars. You can buy everything you need online. I even work on frets now.

Yep, an 18 inch bar of certified flat quartz polymer, some sandpaper, and a crowning file is all you need.

[deeaa]

Anyone have a good resource where to buy a nice long polymer bar?

[Commodore 64]

I got mine on EBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Quartz-18-SANDING-BEAM-fret-leveling-STD-w-sandpaper-/220749970873?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3365b93db9#ht_2519wt_1139

But he only sips to US and Canada.