Osama bin Laden dead

[marnold]

The man behind the single greatest attack on my country in my lifetime has not gone down to the grave in peace. It won't bring back anybody killed on 9/11, but it does bring the mastermind to justice. A word to terrorists: we have special forces and they will find you.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.dead/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

[Eric]

Yeah, pretty hard to avoid that news this morning. It's kind of strange to celebrate the death of someone, yet if there is such a thing as a justifiable killing, this seems to be it. I wonder how things will play out from this point on.

[Tig]

Finally, a break in the royal wedding coverage! :yum

____________


As a former firefighter, I remember watching with horror the loss of 343 fellow firefighters at the WTC. No celebration today, but at least a sigh of justice filled relief.

Not a time for politics, just a time for unity and reflection. In the security environment, this changes nothing. Unfortunately, you cannot kill the Hydra by cutting off only one head.

[R_of_G]

So do we get our civil rights back now?

[FrankenFretter]

If it hadn't been for guitar forums, I wouldn't have known about this last night.
If this is true, and I hope it is, then good riddance.

[marnold]

If it hadn't been for guitar forums, I wouldn't have known about this last night.
If this is true, and I hope it is, then good riddance.

Well, the President held a special news conference to announce it, so it's a serious hoax if it isn't true.

On a music-related note: the only reason I heard the news last night is because I was watching videos on The CoolTV. On of the (many) John Mayer songs I can't stand came on so I flipped over to the associated NBC station to see Brian Williams bringing news of the impending news conference.

[R_of_G]

Also...

Gunned down in a firefight in a mansion? They totally stole that from Scarface.

[Tig]

It just hit me... This is one of those "I remember what I was doing/where I was when I learned about _________" kind of moments.
We all remember what/where we were on 9/11, and now the circle is complete.

I was at work then, and again last night, at work. I remember vividly the details 10 years ago. Rigging up a make-shift antenna to our office's video conference TV, looking over and seeing tears in a co-worker's eyes. A gentle man named Ali from Pakistan. He mentions that everything will be different from now on, and he was right.

Sadly for you Rev, you'll be stuck with some songs you can't stand in your association! :poke

[marnold]

I remember 9/11 vividly. I woke up before my alarm, which almost never happens. I turned on the "Today" show, which I almost never do. I saw the first tower burning. Not long afterward, I was watching when the second plane hit the other tower. I was driving to a pastors' study group later and listening on the radio about the other plane at the Pentagon and the one in Pennsylvania. I just remember praying for it to stop.

[stingx]

I'll never forget. I was there as it happened. The single-most suckiest day I can recall.

[mapka]

Body buried at sea... The conspiracy theories are starting already! :) I am worried that this is going to leave a power vacuum in Al-Quida and who is going to fill it. Some one worse than Osama....

[kidsmoke]

Body buried at sea... The conspiracy theories are starting already! :) I am worried that this is going to leave a power vacuum in Al-Quida and who is going to fill it. Some one worse than Osama....

Perhaps someone more deranged, but OBL's real danger lie in the fact that he was such a powerful orator, leader etc. Inspired LOVE from his followers. Those types are few and far between. I think that anyone trying to fill the void will be unable to maintain/communicate the degree of passion for the campaign that OBL did, and even he was witnessing a strained network, if reports are true.

I too remember that morning in Sept vividly. Beat a threatening motorist to work on my bicycle durning my routine morning commute (a euphoric event), and then someones family member called and told us about a "plane accident". We were able to rig a tv in time to watch the second plane hit the towers. I only learned later that the pilot of the first plane was a guest at my sisters wedding, and my good friend from high school was in Tower 1 at the time. the latter survived, getting out as soon as the first plane hit, the former of course, was dead before the plane hit the building.

I think this is the only possibly healing outcome. I hope against hope that his identity is confirmed for the masses, beyond any possible doubt. We need to move on. My hats off to the people involved. It appears this was a well managed operation on every level. It's about time something was executed properly. No pun intended.

[Retro Hound]

"I've never wished a man dead, but I've read some obituaries with great pleasure." Mark Twain

[R_of_G]

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." - Mohandis K. Gandhi

[jpfeifer]

I have a hard time celebrating anybody being killed, but in this case I think that the US had an obligation to go after this guy. What he orchestrated on 911 was an act of war. Him being gone won't bring any of those people back who lost their lives on 911, but it does provide some amount of closure knowing that the key person behind those attacts had to pay a price for their act.

[Tig]

Body buried at sea... The conspiracy theories are starting already! :) I am worried that this is going to leave a power vacuum in Al-Quida and who is going to fill it. Some one worse than Osama....

Apparently, he wasn't involved in "operations" planning as he was in the past. Communications had to be limited in order to remain hidden. The compound was double walled and designed to be defended, except the SEALs came in by helecoptor zip lines. Edit: Here's a timeline of the operation. (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-0502-bin-laden-raid-20110503,0,1186425.story?page=2) He became more of a figurehead/spiritual leader, which is more powerful in this case.

Burial at sea adhered to the Koran while keeping the body out of reach from followers wishing to memorialize it.

[piebaldpython]

The head of the SEALS unit has to be a guitar player......instead of playing double-stops he went for a double-tap on OBL's head.

[Robert]

Fox News didn't find out who died yet. See below. Perhaps be careful to not hire editors and news anchors with Dyslexia, Fox. :messedup:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2011/05/fox_a_l_.jpg

[Spudman]

I have a hard time celebrating anybody being killed, but in this case I think that the US had an obligation to go after this guy. What he orchestrated on 911 was an act of war. Him being gone won't bring any of those people back who lost their lives on 911, but it does provide some amount of closure knowing that the key person behind those attacts had to pay a price for their act.

Odd thing is that nobody knows for sure if he did orchestrate 911. The FBI only wanted him for all the other attacks they were associating with him. The FBI does not list him as being wanted for 911. Still, he was a bad guy and should have been dealt with in some way that kept him from perpetuating Al qaeda. I'm glad that he's gone, but I don't support killing. Now we'll never know the truth about many things that might help get the USA back on track. I'll bet plenty of that knowledge died with him.

[scruff]

Hard to support killing in any context. In this case, I'll make an exception and will take whatever karmic consequences come my way for it. But it's also hard to question his involvement in the 9/11 attacks and a host of others as well, and I'd have to see any effort at doing so as revisionist and counterproductive.

Really, at this point, finally getting him was more symbolic than anything else. It tells the world that we will not stop coming after these terrorist monsters, even ten years later. I'd like to say that this will bring about the end of the terrorist era, but it won't. Not even close. So I'm gonna go home, put in a Led Zeppelin CD and play along with The Lemon Song. That'll make me feel better.

What are y'all gonna do?

[Tig]

So I'm gonna go home, put in a Led Zeppelin CD and play along with The Lemon Song. That'll make me feel better.


I thought "Ten Years gOne" would be a better fit! :digit
(oh, I kill me sometimes :notme)

Corrected

[Eric]

I have a hard time celebrating anybody being killed, but in this case I think that the US had an obligation to go after this guy. What he orchestrated on 911 was an act of war. Him being gone won't bring any of those people back who lost their lives on 911, but it does provide some amount of closure knowing that the key person behind those attacts had to pay a price for their act.
You know, it's strange: for as much as people are viewing this death as recompense, I viewed the merit of it more in how it will impact the future. I would call it a good thing if the end of Bin Laden hurts the efforts of al Qaeda and helps put the war in Afghanistan on ice.

I think that this thread has shown me that many are looking at his death as closure on the past, which I do believe is the common sentiment. It's interesting to me to see the different perspectives.

BTW, I'm embarrassingly uneducated when it comes to most of this, so please forgive me if I'm spewing inaccuracies.

[piebaldpython]

I thought "Ten Years On" would be a better fit! :digit
(oh, I kill me sometimes :notme)

Actually a song by Alvin Lee and Ten Years After would be cool too.

[Eric]

Is "Ten Years On" a LZ song? I only know of "Ten Years Gone".

[Tig]

Is "Ten Years On" a LZ song? I only know of "Ten Years Gone".

Um yep! :thwap You are correct!
I've only had 3 hours sleep today. :zzz

[R_of_G]

I think that this thread has shown me that many are looking at his death as closure on the past, which I do believe is the common sentiment. It's interesting to me to see the different perspectives.

What this thread has shown me is that despite our varied perspectives on an issue this sensitive we can all still interact like adults and respect each other's opinions. I know we usually avoid discussions like these around here that can touch on political issues or other lightning-rod type things, but it's very refreshing to see that this thread has been up all day and has generated nothing more than civil discourse. Good for us. :)

[NWBasser]

Fox News didn't find out who died yet. See below. Perhaps be careful to not hire editors and news anchors with Dyslexia, Fox. :messedup:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2011/05/fox_a_l_.jpg

I've gotten so cynical over the years that I don't think that was an accident by Fox.

[NWBasser]

I used to have a very loose suspicion that OBL was a fiction to provide cover by the upper-echelon leadership to do disagreeable things. I didn't hold very tightly to that idea and am glad to see things turn out this way.

[bcdon]

So do we get our civil rights back now?

No, as one Bogeyman dies another quickly takes his place. The only question is will he be from Eurasia or Eastasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four)?

[Katastrophe]

The man behind the single greatest attack on my country in my lifetime has not gone down to the grave in peace. It won't bring back anybody killed on 9/11, but it does bring the mastermind to justice. A word to terrorists: we have special forces and they will find you.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.dead/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Nailed it on the first post. +1, Rev...

[R_of_G]

No, as one Bogeyman dies another quickly takes his place. The only question is will he be from Eurasia or Eastasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four)?

+1

Thanks for that. I've been half-joking for a decade now that Osama Bin Laden is arabic for Emmanuel Goldstein.

[msteeln]

It is interesting to note that the US is currently on a new and unique murderous rampage of selective high profile world targets, with one down and more, like Gadafi, to go. Lot's of study went into the successful re-examination of the compound and a courier to get this hit on Osama done so well, so maybe they've managed to re-up their competency game. I think we'll see more Rambo action from this admin., should be fun viewing, not that I approve...

[deeaa]

The whole 911 thing is so ridden with strange things I have no doubt there's something really fishy hidden there too. No, I don't believe in stupid conspiracy theories, but I am inclined to think it's possible that the buildings ultimately might have fallen like they did because of a failsafe system built in them after the previous bombing attempt and meant to facilitate controlled demolition instead of letting the towers fall onto Manhattan and cause much more damage. I'm certain there's something wrong or hidden in the big picture nevertheless, whatever it might be. Perhaps something less sinister like a huge structural design flaw that's kept hidden, or something. Whatever it is, we're not told about every aspect of it for some reason.

That Osama's death would be a hoax is also pretty incredible, but I also find incredible that in the death picture Osama looks 1:1 right down to the lip position as he did in a ten year older photo and superimposed they fit pretty much exactly. That IS pretty weird. Most likely it is just coincide, but then again, it's incredible that if you'd catch the most wanted man in history, you'd not take any proper photos or video or make any proper such documentation or even conduct a proper autopsy for the history books, but instead pretty much instantly get rid of the body in a way that nobody can possibly get their hands on any of it or prove it?

Why on earth would anybody do that if it wasn't fishy in some way? Most likely he is dead, though, but again, I don't think we're told everything about it. It could be something like the picture of dead Osama might have been too gruesome to release as is, and they had retouched it using previous picture. Could be.

I don't think there's a way to find out exactly what happened in any government operation or scenario; usually I don't believe reality is nothing like the CIA cloak and dagger games in movies, but everything is usually based on some truth to the matters, and if even half a percent of what movies suggest would be true, well, that would not only be believable and what I'd do if I was running a secret service, but also definitely make things appear somewhat fishy in tight scrutiny.

[scruff]

What this thread has shown me is that despite our varied perspectives on an issue this sensitive we can all still interact like adults and respect each other's opinions. I know we usually avoid discussions like these around here that can touch on political issues or other lightning-rod type things, but it's very refreshing to see that this thread has been up all day and has generated nothing more than civil discourse. Good for us. :)

+1

[NWBasser]

It is interesting to note that the US is currently on a new and unique murderous rampage of selective high profile world targets, with one down and more, like Gadafi, to go. Lot's of study went into the successful re-examination of the compound and a courier to get this hit on Osama done so well, so maybe they've managed to re-up their competency game. I think we'll see more Rambo action from this admin., should be fun viewing, not that I approve...

Even the most jaded of liberals that I know agree that Osama was an extremely bad person and that we're (by we, I don't just mean the US) all much better off without him. He really was a dangerous and charismatic fanatic who presented quite a risk and I say good riddance. Beyond that character, things get much too political for this forum I think.

[scruff]

That Osama's death would be a hoax is also pretty incredible, but I also find incredible that in the death picture Osama looks 1:1 right down to the lip position as he did in a ten year older photo and superimposed they fit pretty much exactly. That IS pretty weird.

Weird, especially since to my knowledge, no death picture has been release yet. Or did I miss it? What you're looking at is probably a fake. Just my immediate reaction. Can anyone confirm or deny? Thanks :)

[NWBasser]

The whole 911 thing is so ridden with strange things I have no doubt there's something really fishy hidden there too. No, I don't believe in stupid conspiracy theories, but I am inclined to think it's possible that the buildings ultimately might have fallen like they did because of a failsafe system built in them after the previous bombing attempt and meant to facilitate controlled demolition instead of letting the towers fall onto Manhattan and cause much more damage. I'm certain there's something wrong or hidden in the big picture nevertheless, whatever it might be. Perhaps something less sinister like a huge structural design flaw that's kept hidden, or something. Whatever it is, we're not told about every aspect of it for some reason.

That Osama's death would be a hoax is also pretty incredible, but I also find incredible that in the death picture Osama looks 1:1 right down to the lip position as he did in a ten year older photo and superimposed they fit pretty much exactly. That IS pretty weird. Most likely it is just coincide, but then again, it's incredible that if you'd catch the most wanted man in history, you'd not take any proper photos or video or make any proper such documentation or even conduct a proper autopsy for the history books, but instead pretty much instantly get rid of the body in a way that nobody can possibly get their hands on any of it or prove it?

Why on earth would anybody do that if it wasn't fishy in some way? Most likely he is dead, though, but again, I don't think we're told everything about it. It could be something like the picture of dead Osama might have been too gruesome to release as is, and they had retouched it using previous picture. Could be.

I don't think there's a way to find out exactly what happened in any government operation or scenario; usually I don't believe reality is nothing like the CIA cloak and dagger games in movies, but everything is usually based on some truth to the matters, and if even half a percent of what movies suggest would be true, well, that would not only be believable and what I'd do if I was running a secret service, but also definitely make things appear somewhat fishy in tight scrutiny.

Dee, I've looked into some of the claims about the WTC attack and found many of the conspiracies to be less substantial than the main story. Even though I have little faith in our news media, the destruction of the World Trade Centers is certainly well within the physics of jet airliners hitting the buildings. In this case, I think the simplest explanation is the most likely.

The problem is the US Gov't has done some questionable things and it leads one to suspect everything they do, even if it is on the up-and-up. For example, I think the whole Iraqi WMD episode seriously tarnished their credibility.

[R_of_G]

Weird, especially since to my knowledge, no death picture has been release yet. Or did I miss it? What you're looking at is probably a fake. Just my immediate reaction. Can anyone confirm or deny? Thanks :)

Not positive but it's my understanding that some media outlets were briefly showing what was purported to be a photo of a dead OBL. It was taken down after various skeptics showed that it was a fake by showing archived web pages that showed the same exact photo in 2010.

Ironically, the mainstream media outlets who showed the photo without verifying it now blame the incident on "conspiracy theorists" when in fact it was conspiracy theorists that pointed out their error. Any information at this point about who supplied that photo would be mere speculation but to date I know of no official release of any photos of a dead OBL.

[deeaa]

Yes, I agree that pretty much all the conspiracy theories are quite lacking in substance - all but the super-accurate falling down of the towers finally. I would not be surprised if there was indeed some sort of a failsafe system for controlled demolition that ignited once the damage had penetrated far enough and the building would have collapsed anyway but uncontrollably.

I don't know of any building like that to collapse like the wtc did, literally pulverizing as it went down. Granted, not many have been so badly burned. But, it did look exactly like it had been demolished, if you compare videos of tall buildings blown up in demolitions, it happens exactly like when wtc came down. That was my first thought when I saw it happen on live TV.

No way to know, though. Doesn't seem like a far stretch to me, but I would not be surprised to find out if it was either way. Terrible anyway.

[deeaa]

Not positive but it's my understanding that some media outlets were briefly showing what was purported to be a photo of a dead OBL. It was taken down after various skeptics showed that it was a fake by showing archived web pages that showed the same exact photo in 2010.

Ironically, the mainstream media outlets who showed the photo without verifying it now blame the incident on "conspiracy theorists" when in fact it was conspiracy theorists that pointed out their error. Any information at this point about who supplied that photo would be mere speculation but to date I know of no official release of any photos of a dead OBL.

That must have been it. It did seem fishy to me in many respects. I mean, IF they would make a fake one, I'd imagine they'd at least have some professionals to a proper job of it :-)

[msteeln]

It seems for many region locals it was common knowledge that the raided compound was 'the bin Laden house', and that Osama would probably be dead of his own ailments within 2 years. He was a dying figurehead imprisoned in his own retirement home with his massive family and a woman prisoner kept nearby to be used as his personal human shield, should need be, a real man thinks of everything... The guy taking his place is a long time dedicated mega-dirtbag, so the party could just be starting up again. And any legitimate doubts concerning the validity of Osama's demise went when Rummy and Dick gave their immediate applause.

[Spudman]

Dee, I've looked into some of the claims about the WTC attack and found many of the conspiracies to be less substantial than the main story. Even though I have little faith in our news media,the destruction of the World Trade Centers is certainly well within the physics of jet airliners hitting the buildings. In this case, I think the simplest explanation is the most likely.


Not for Building #7, but that's another topic.:socool

[Tig]

Not for Building #7, but that's another topic.:socool

Yes, watching the footage of WTC 7 collapsing, the synced black plumes that match every planned planned implosion I've seen, and the fact that is wasn't a monocoque structure like the towers were... Well, it makes you wonder.

The towers being monocoque explains why they collapsed in the way they did. All the structural strength is based on the outer shell and when that fails, the weight above creates the domino effect vertically. An achitech could explain further.