My daughter's friend's mom was murdered last night

[Spudman]

http://www.journalnet.com/news/local/article_7bbeefcc-7593-11e0-9691-001cc4c002e0.html

Poor girl is 11 years old and now she is motherless and fatherless. They live 2 houses away. Strange thing is that we never heard or saw anything going on last night. Cops were everywhere.

This world is a crazy place.

[kidsmoke]

That's a dramatic thing when a neighborhood has violence visited upon it. I'm sorry for your family, and of course, this poor girl, for having to face this world in this way. There's no "half full" in a situation like this. It Sucks.

Sorry Spud

[Tig]

These kind of things happening so close are a real shock. I feel for the little girl. Such a sad story. We see it over and over, which makes it difficult to see the promise in our fellow citizens and society.

[Spudman]

My neighborhood has had several untimely deaths since I moved into my house 11 years ago.

A gal right outside my bedroom window (in a small cottage) got drunk, fell and hit her head. Wasn't found for days, only when her little dog started creating a ruckus.

One house away from the current death was an obese man who choked to death on a piece of steak while his friend and his son looked on.

This current death, however, is just incredibly tragic. The kids were sleeping and never heard a thing only to wake later to find their mom murdered. Sad.

[R_of_G]

Wow. That's just terrible.

When I was about the same age the mother of a girl in my class was murdered in our neighborhood. If I remember correctly, the ex-husband hired someone to take out the woman and her new husband. Luckily the kids were away for the summer at camp. None of us ever looked at that neighborhood quite the same way again. Sad that yours must now face the same thing and obviously tragic for the family of the victim.

[Spudman]

I just can't imagine what that girl and her brother will have to endure the rest of their lives. Where do they go from here?

[sunvalleylaw]

Man, I cannot believe that. Hard core. I hope they get whoever did it, and that the girl has some extended family or someone that can help. Not really impressed with Idaho social services, so I hope there is family somewhere.

[Robert]

That's so wrong. Oh man, how sad.

[MAXIFUNK]

I've pray that those kids find stable ground under them quickly.
The drama in movies does not compare to true life in America.

[guitarhack]

So very sad. I pray the child gets a decent family to step up and take care of her.

[Monkus]

Very sad, prayers to her ... hope they catch the perp.

[Spudman]

Very sad, prayers to her ... hope they catch the perp.

http://www.journalnet.com/news/local/article_7bbeefcc-7593-11e0-9691-001cc4c002e0.html

They already have him. It's the step father. Just a week or two ago all my daughters friends were in a tizzy and I asked what was going on. My daughter told me that the father had pulled a knife on her friend's mom and that's why the cops were there at the house. So the mom got the guy thrown in jail and he got out on bail and came back and finished the threat. Loser!

[Brian Krashpad]

Man. I'm so sorry. Prayers for and mojo to all concerned.

:(

[Spudman]

I found out that the 13 year old son was awake at the time of the murder and stepped out into the hall just after it happened and saw the stepfather as he was leaving. Eye witness, and now the creep has no escape. I hope they mess him up good in prison.

[oldguy]

I found out that the 13 year old son was awake at the time of the murder and stepped out into the hall just after it happened and saw the stepfather as he was leaving. Eye witness, and now the creep has no escape. I hope they mess him up good in prison.

Prayers to the family, and to yours, something like this is hard to understand, much less deal with, at least for some time.
Difficult as it can be for a time, karma seems to come around to good and bad alike.

[hubberjub]

That's crazy. Best wishes for those kids and your neighborhood.

[otaypanky]

It's hard to mentally process a story like this, I just can't comprehend violence. I know it's all around us, but it's just insane.
My heart goes out to those kids. Your whole neighborhood must be in shock ~
When I watch the news on tv I often think of how casually the newscasters are as they segue with a smile and upbeat voice from a story of horrific violence to a story about something like a local crafts fair. They must be so numbed out from repeating stuff like that. Just once I want one of them to stand up and demand what is wrong with people and express the real horror of violence.
At this point I think the whole world, at least the US, is almost numb to it. It's on nearly every tv program, the movies, in video games, just everywhere. Almost like it's supposed to be normal or something

[bigoldron]

We had a triple-murder happen yesterday afternoon in a "bump in the road" called Iron City. It's about 6 miles away. ANY murder is a shock in our community and it is a small place and usually a decent place to live. The really sad thing is that the 5 year daughter watched all this happen. I hope they fry this guy...

Here's a link to the story: http://bainbridgega.com/news/publish/050711murder.shtml

There is too much pain and hurt in this world. And it gets worse every day....

And my heart goes out to your daughter and her friend....

[street music]

Spud & Big, the world is getting in horrible shape and it doesn't seem to leave anyone out. My oldest brother is a coroner and the drug problem is getting so bad here that over dose cases are just everywhere almost daily, in fact he had 3 in one day recently. The murder rate is up due to a lot of factors and I can't see much improvement in it. There is very few courts anymore that will give a death penalty for crimes and so no criminal is really afraid of committing crime. WE feed these punks for the rest of their life while kids are out there trying to build a new life without their parents, JUSTICE? My idea of Justice would be an eye for an eye that would put fear back in the law enforcement.

[deeaa]

Horrible as these are, I dunno about that penalty stuff streetmusic.

Over here the killer would get an absolute maximum of 14 years of which he'd serve a maximum of seven in jail, if he's a 1st-timer perp.

I don't think it's even possible to get a harder sentence than that here, unless you're criminally insane in which case you may spend longer in a mental hospital. Manslaughter gives you on average 3,5 to 4 years of jail time, sometimes less. And this would quite possibly fall into that category, unless the perp brought the weapon with him and planned it beforehand etc.

Only seven percent of jailed people spend over 3 years jail time, about 50% get by 3 months or less. ~10% of prisoners are foreigners. In 2003 there were 86 people serving the maximum sentence of 7 to 14 in the whole country and 23 were hospitalized indefinitely. That's out of 5 million people. Overall, 70 people out of each 100.000 received a sentence of some sort. That's under a tenth of U.S. numbers of over 700/100.000.

Strange enough, we have pretty much the lowest murder rates in the whole world here?

I'm pretty sure if we changed to longer sentences and death penalty, violence would skyrocket the next day.

(I myself have had three murderer pupils who've since been rehabilitated into society)

I think murdering etc. is a sickness and the one who commits is sick; it can't be treated by avenging the perp but instead rehabilitation etc. That's why the prisoners here also are very nice, console games, TV of course, excellent hobby & sports possibilities etc - hell they can even earn good money while in prison by doing different work...there was just an article in the paper that a prisoner can easily earn more money than a student in the University and have better living standards....

[Eric]

Horrible as these are, I dunno about that penalty stuff streetmusic.

Over here the killer would get an absolute maximum of 14 years of which he'd serve a maximum of seven in jail, if he's a 1st-timer perp.

I don't think it's even possible to get a harder sentence than that here, unless you're criminally insane in which case you may spend longer in a mental hospital. Manslaughter gives you on average 3,5 to 4 years of jail time, sometimes less. And this would quite possibly fall into that category, unless the perp brought the weapon with him and planned it beforehand etc.

Only seven percent of jailed people spend over 3 years jail time, about 50% get by 3 months or less. ~10% of prisoners are foreigners. In 2003 there were 86 people serving the maximum sentence of 7 to 14 in the whole country and 23 were hospitalized indefinitely. That's out of 5 million people. Overall, 70 people out of each 100.000 received a sentence of some sort. That's under a tenth of U.S. numbers of over 700/100.000.

Strange enough, we have pretty much the lowest murder rates in the whole world here?

I'm pretty sure if we changed to longer sentences and death penalty, violence would skyrocket the next day.

(I myself have had three murderer pupils who've since been rehabilitated into society)

I think murdering etc. is a sickness and the one who commits is sick; it can't be treated by avenging the perp but instead rehabilitation etc. That's why the prisoners here also are very nice, console games, TV of course, excellent hobby & sports possibilities etc - hell they can even earn good money while in prison by doing different work...there was just an article in the paper that a prisoner can easily earn more money than a student in the University and have better living standards....
That is interesting. My first thought upon reading it is whether it's a chicken-or-egg thing; that is, whether the lack of penalties makes for the low murder rates or whether the low murder rates allow for a system with less harsh penalties. Or maybe there's some other factor that's a result of lesser penalties, and that leads to lower murder rates, etc. I guess it depends on your point of view as to which one you're "sure" is the case.

More interestingly (to me, anyway) is how you would implement such a system when a more strict policy is currently in place. If lesser penalties truly do make for less crime, I wonder if it would be difficult to sort of retract the legal ramifications. My instinct tells me there would be some pretty tough growing pains associated with it, but I'm not sure. I thought I had more to say on that, but I guess I didn't.

But regardless, that is interesting because it seems kind of counterintuitive.

[deeaa]

Yes Eric I don't know if it would be possible or feasible to actually start cutting heavily on punishments, at least in short term...

Here they've tightened the screw on gun ownership of late, since Finland has the 4th most guns in citizen hands per capita in the world, and so far it seems the result has been just an increase in gun violence. I understand that is what has happened in England as well, where they forbid citizens from having guns and knife crime and also gun crimes escalated.

I think basically, when guns are hard to get, only criminals will have guns and they will also be more likely to use them. Back when everybody had guns hanging on their walls, gun violence was rare...now that it's harder to own a gun, criminals are just more eager to get black market guns and also use them.

My feeling on punishments is largely along the same lines; if murder or heavy violence sentence really is life or something, once someone happens to even badly wound somebody and realizes he's facing decades of life in prison > what does he care any more, his life is over anyway, so it's only logical to go all the way and while at it, kill a few more, it won't get any worse.

But, if the criminal knows well that if he doesn't kill a person he will get help and such and not face life in jail, he will surely keep things in check no matter how crazy he is. That's what I believe.

That's why I think especially death sentences do not work at all, they are very counterproductive in my mind. I think that has been proved in many studies around the world, that at some point making punishments more severe only serve to worsen the situation.

That said, I do think sometimes we do have too lax punishments over here too; sometimes it just won't fit my sense of justice that a rapist killer can get arguably lesser a punishment than some non-violent embezzler or something even.

[Eric]

That said, I do think sometimes we do have too lax punishments over here too; sometimes it just won't fit my sense of justice that a rapist killer can get arguably lesser a punishment than some non-violent embezzler or something even.
Well that's the whole trick of it, isn't it? Only part of the justice system is public safety; I think it's very hard to hold yourself back and not want recompense for a crime committed against you or someone you know. It's the punative thing that's very very difficult not to want, particularly when it's personal.

The first thing that popped into my head with your last post was people who have been very abused when they were younger. I used to hang out with a bunch of social workers, and they worked with a lot of kids whose eggs had been scrambled from severe sexual abuse when they were younger. That can really mess someone up, so I wonder how the ideas you talk about (e.g. someone knowing there's still hope if they quit committing crimes) would work in the context of someone who is a bit unstable.

I think it would actually still work reasonably well, as those abused might just have extra aggression or something, but aren't totally bonkers. Still, the idea of childhood abuse kind of throws a monkeywrench into the equation a little bit. Nonetheless, I'm glad this came up again -- I think it's worth thinking about for me.

[deeaa]

Well, yeah...I can give you a story/example. I know a guy whom I taught when he was a teenager, and had just committed murder with his dad. He'd been abused and reared up quite horribly wrong, shown horror films and such from baby and whatnot. The father was kinda cuckoo I guess. Anyway they planned a murder of three people, entrapped them in their home and knifed them to death together.

I can tell you the guy was severely messed up indeed, downright scary to work with...but, they rehabilitated him OK and he seems quite an OK fella now, and it's hardly been, what 8 years or what? I forget exactly. I've met him a few times in the local pub.

The sad thing is why didn't he get the support and care before bad things happened. Anyway, I don't know what would have been gained by prisoning him for years on end?

Sometimes it's harder. An old classmate of mine got tangled up w/bad people I guess, knifed another drunk dead some 15 years ago. Served something like five for it, was let out. He worked for years and was fine, until he got mixed up with the same bunch again...ended up knifing another of his drunk friends dead. This time he got something like ten years or something. I just hope the next time he keeps away from that lot :-)