Hm, looks like I'll be moving to U.S.A. for a while @ some point

[deeaa]

Kinda keeps seeming more and more likely my wife's going to find a post-doc job in the U.S. rather than more close to home. It'll be for a year at least, so I guess the entire family has to go, neither of us would want to live a year apart from each other and definitely not the kids.

So, gotta start planning. She'd prefer Boston area or some other big city area where there are prestigious universities she could get the place in, but I'd be more partial to going somewhere mid-west, like St.Louis maybe. Good universities there too. I figure it'd be better and safer for the kids. I have no idea what kind of housing we will be able to afford, maybe some sort of a small apartment, but I'd hate to move into some cheap and maybe bad neighborhood in a big city for a year.

The good news is that we'll be able to bring home a dirt-cheap car (tax free too!) which will mean something like 25K on the plus side monetarily, plus we could also bring along lots of ski-doos or ATV's etc. and maybe like a classic car for me for hobby, and with such deals I could probably net another 25K. But even then it's gonna be much less than the amount I'll lose in salaries, having a year off work and no income, plus it's all 'invisible' income that only comes after the year and mostly just as money saved in terms of getting stuff like semi-free cars, not money in the bank.

The bad news (maybe?) is that while my older son could go to 1st grade in the U.S. as well, I myself will have to be a 'house husband' for the duration and just be the baby-sitter. Oh well I could write a book or two to kill time. But, it's not like I'm ecstatic about the whole thing. I could maybe work a little, find some translation jobs etc. but I can't really think of any job I could get there that would pay enough for it to be reasonable. (what is reasonable even??) And of course we'll have to get someone to mind the house and the summer house while we're away.

Anyway...it's just mind-boggling to think of all the things included. I'd have to sell most of my computer stuff, likely some music gear as well, and I'd definitely need a new computer states-side, plus a good network deal, and of course all the other stuff from insurances to whatnot.

Sheesh. Anyway, if you have any ideas what to avoid in areas etc. please do comment...I've only stayed in the Tri-State area before.

[marnold]

By "tri-state" I assume you mean the greater New York City area? It's hard to offer specific recommendations because, well, the U.S. is a pretty big place. I find it amazing that you could save all that money buying cars, etc., here. I'd think that the shipping alone would kill off any profit. Usually you can address the safety issue (and the cost issue) by living in a smaller town outside the big town. You just have to gauge if you save enough to cover the transportation costs/time.

[deeaa]

Hell yeah, see, take a VW Passat for instance, it's what, around 20K over there? Guess what, they cost round 40K here. 108% tax on cars over factory price, so most any car in U.S. will be roughly twice as costly here.

Something like a Chevy Van with some passenger conversion options, or a Ram extended, could be priced at like $100K easy.
The thing is, you have to live abroad for a year to be able to bring it in tax-free...if it's just 6 months for instance, you bring a car that cost 50K, you'll pay 54K taxes on top of it...

Shipping a car costs merely 1500 or so...that's what a container costs, and it will carry 2 cars plus lots of bikes, ATV's etc. So yeah, cars, in our point of view, cost nothing in U.S.

Quite often, a car will be the most expensive thing a family ever buys. And it's not just the starting price, there's the yearly car taxes, gasoline is like $12 a gallon etc. etc...

I think it'd have to be so close to the university where she works that she could literally walk there...or some other similarly handy means of transport.

[marnold]

Wow! What's the "logic" behind such a high tax? Is it an import/protectionist kind of thing? If the U.S. government decided to tax things at a rate like that, there would be another revolution. I knew that gas taxes across Europe are ridiculous.

[piebaldpython]

What's her doctorate in? Is she a medical doctor?.....or a person who has PhD after her name? Gave us more info and we might be able to help you out more.

There are more universities within a 50 mi radius of Philadelphia than any other city in the USA.

[poodlesrule]

Dee, I can PM you about a couple of academia contacts, one in Boston, another in North Carolina.

If we are talking medical field in Boston, I can hit my oncologist for tips. He teaches as well, and he owes me one after the money he made off me in the past eight years...

[deeaa]

She's a biochemist, so I suppose it's doctor of...biochemistry? LOL. I don't even know the exact words. I know it shares a LOT of medical stuff, I mean, she does delicate surgeries on live mice...and she's been thinking of getting some more courses so she could also become a medical doctor quite easily. But that she is not. Other than that I don't know much. But I understand she could probably go to many a place, and the place itself will be arranged for then by the university and her superiors, once she just decides upon a region. I know she's been asked to at least visit some midwestern universities already, while she was in Spain presenting some of her study findings. I mean, where ever she goes, she'll get a grant for it from somewhere like the government or whatever, like, I dunno, 50K? 100K?, and we'll have to live on that the entire year, buy a car and all, plus pay for the upkeep of our houses here back home. I have no idea yet.

I do believe all the other necessary details will be handled too with the help of the faculty, so I don't expect any issues there. I used to work on a J-1 visa myself back in the 90's in N.Y. and that was simple enough without family, I just picked up a visa from the U.S. embassy and went there and worked.

So what I'd be mostly interested in is any views on where would you want to reside with a family in the U.S. given a free pick, with the assumption that we won't be able to select the best and safest neighborhoods, and have to stay close to whatever university there is...?

That and then also what the hell could I do during my stay...can't think of much else than translation, or just being the nanny for a year, LOL :-) I guess I could try to find some local band to sing for, or such. I guess I can still keep recording songs if I just buy a laptop there, and all the necessary gear...if the residence is suitable in the least for screaming without bothering the neighbors :-) It won't be easy but, well, they say you can survive a year standing in three feet of manure on - yer head - if you only have a straw to breathe thru, and despite all the difficulties, a year in the States could be great in many respects too. When I just think of all those dirt cheap guitars and stuff that costs nothing compared to here I start to drool a bit...

[piebaldpython]

So, in essence, a research scientist/doctor. OK, Philly is good......Boston area too as they do a lot of research at the major universities and hospitals......nice places to live and the winters will be warmer than what you are used to (whereas Boston would be too cold for me). Forget NYC, too expensive, too crowded and dangerous if you aren't conditioned to the hecticness of it all. Cleveland and Chicago are viable options....good places to live and work and again, their winters won't scare a native Finn. Last on the list, Minneapolis is outstanding for research. Good luck and keep us posted.

[otaypanky]

I spent a month in Minneapolis from mid May to mid June back in '92. Actually, I was in Eden Prairie, maybe 20 minutes south as I recall. It was an awesome place for music. I was really surprised at how cool it was. Every week night I would go out to a local jam somewhere and on the weekends the local bands were great. The Whiskey Cafe was a blast

[mapka]

By "tri-state" I assume you mean the greater New York City area? It's hard to offer specific recommendations because, well, the U.S. is a pretty big place. I find it amazing that you could save all that money buying cars, etc., here. I'd think that the shipping alone would kill off any profit. Usually you can address the safety issue (and the cost issue) by living in a smaller town outside the big town. You just have to gauge if you save enough to cover the transportation costs/time.

I agree. No matter where the larger cities are found, you will surely find lots of crime. Boston is nice but very expensive to live. There also is a ton of traffic to get anywhere you want to go (at least it was that way 10 years ago when I was up there last). Same can be said of the NYC area. I live 2 hours from NYC and there are people who live here and work there. and that is 2 hours without traffic! with traffic you are talking closer to 3! Just to give you the idea of the commute some will go through. They do it because 5 years ago you could get a huge home here for the price they were paying for a tiny one there. Of course, that all has changed... You may want to consider the Philadelphia area. Many prestigious schools and the city has some nice neighborhoods (along with some very bad ones!) and a large suburbia area. There are also many Pharmaceutical companies in the area (possible internship for a bio chemist)

[Eric]

Wow, big changes afoot! I've worked pretty closely with a lot of biochem people in my job, so that's pretty interesting.

My guess for your housing is that if you live very close to the university, you'll probably pay through the nose for housing. The bigger and older cities (NYC, Boston) have ridiculously high rent relative to other areas of the country, which I suppose is kind of obvious.

She could probably find a good university to work at in most regions. Even places you wouldn't necessarily think of, like say Cleveland, have the Cleveland Clinic, which is a big research-y hospital. I doubt our recommendations are going to have much impact on where you end up, but I'm crossing my fingers that maybe our paths will cross while you're over here -- it would be really cool to meet you.

Keep us updated!

[sunvalleylaw]

Not anywhere near the areas you are thinking of, but based on the looks of your pictures and the vegetation, water, etc. you might like the Seattle area. One really big research university, and many others. Nice, fun city with lots of music and cultural options. Beautiful water and mountains. A bit more mild than I see in your pics as the snow stays mostly up in the mountains rather than in town. Has a lot of the advantages she is looking for in Boston, but more "midwest" in feel than Boston, though not really midwest either. Certainly more mellow than back east. Good luck with the big move!

[marnold]

If it's a university where she'd be working, there are plenty of large, prestigious universities in small towns where it would be more affordable. Case in point: the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.

[deeaa]

Wow! What's the "logic" behind such a high tax? Is it an import/protectionist kind of thing? If the U.S. government decided to tax things at a rate like that, there would be another revolution. I knew that gas taxes across Europe are ridiculous.

Beats me...not for protection since they don't make cars here (save for some electric ones and I think some Porsches). Cars have always been a good milking cow for the government. I suppose they'd love if everyone just used public transport. Sometimes I feel like driving a car is next to the worst environmental crime there is :-) there are tax reductions if the car is especially low-polluting one, though.

There are or at least were several loopholes in the law that people use. For instance, in the late 80's someone realized you could buy a pickup truck with lower tax than normal cars. Thus there was an influx of U.S. cars like TransAms which were promptly 'chopped' i.e. states-side someone justf used an angle grinder to cut off the back of the roof and the back seats and turn them into pick-ups and shipped here :-) crazy.

I also used to have a Chevy Van that used a loophole in the law that you could have a cheap-taxed van that still had a backseat; the cargo room had to be left certain size and the backseats had to be shaped 90 degrees angle and maximum one inch of padding. There must still be thousands of such Chevyvans here in service. Oh yeah and with all these they had a fixed speed limit of 55(80km/h) even on 120 roads. There were also STW's built to similar specs, with 'temporary' backseats.

These days the only loophole I know is buying a heavy van, and if it's just heavy enough like the heaviest Chevyvan or a Ram pickup, you can legally register it as a truck, with low tax again. Only then only people with professional licences can drive them (I don't have one). And those have a speed limit of 60 (90Km/h).

[deeaa]

BTW she's got masters in biochemistry but her Ph.D. work is in neurobiology, and she said she can work in most any research group that starts with the neuro-affix.

[Eric]

Well, good luck. If things go according to plan, I have no clue where I'll be when you're over here.

[Tig]

BTW she's got masters in biochemistry but her Ph.D. work is in neurobiology, and she said she can work in most any research group that starts with the neuro-affix.

Yet another option to check out... The Houston Medical Center (http://www.texasmedicalcenter.org/root/en) is home to some of the most renowned medical research and academic institutions in the world. TIRR (http://www.memorialhermann.org/locations/tirr/content.aspx?id=274) is where Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords went to recover from her gunshot wound, for instance. Even the expensive near by residences are a fraction of the cost of what I've seen near Boston.

Academic and Research Institutions


Baylor College of Medicine (http://www.bcm.edu/)
Michael E. DeBakey High School for Health Professions (http://hs.houstonisd.org/debakeyhs/)
Houston Academy of Medicine-Texas Medical Center Library (http://www.library.tmc.edu/)
Houston Community College System (http://www.hccs.cc.tx.us/), Health Science Programs
The Methodist Hospital (http://www.methodisthealth.com/)
Prairie View A&M University (http://www.pvamu.edu/nursing), College of Nursing
Rice University (http://www.rice.edu/)
Texas A&M Health Science Center - Institute of Biosciences and Technology (http://www.ibt.tamhsc.edu/)
Texas Heart Institute (http://www.texasheartinstitute.org/)
Texas Southern University College of Pharmacy & Health Sciences (http://www.tsu.edu/academics/pharmacy/)
Texas Woman's University (http://www.twu.edu/houston/) Institute of Health Sciences-Houston
University of Houston (http://www.uh.edu/)
University of Houston College of Pharmacy (http://www.uh.edu/pharmacy/)
The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston (http://www.utmb.edu/)
The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston (http://www.uthouston.edu/)

Dental Branch (http://www.db.uth.tmc.edu/)
Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences (http://gsbs.uth.tmc.edu/)
Harris County Psychiatric Center (http://hcpc.uth.tmc.edu/)
Medical School (http://med.uth.tmc.edu/)
School of Health Information Sciences (http://www.shis.uth.tmc.edu/)
School of Nursing (http://son.uth.tmc.edu/)
School of Public Health (http://www.sph.uth.tmc.edu/)
Brown Foundation Institute of Molecular Medicine for the Prevention of Human Diseases (http://www.uthouston.edu/imm/)


The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center (http://www.mdanderson.org/)

[deeaa]

Hmm...yeah, I would not mind Texas at all. Neither would she. It could well be an option. It would certainly be a real experience to live for a while in such a vastly different climate.

Well, at any rate, it'll be at least 3-4 months before we can start really planning seriously. I have 2 months of vacation now, and only after that I can get to speak to my boss about a sabbatical or other options.

The only real worry I have is is that I _really_ can not afford to lose my job. I mean, I only was ever interested in the English language and that's all I really studied for. And most every teaching job here requires credentials in a minimum of two, like English and German, but very often three or even four languages. They just posted a job at our school for a teacher of English, German and Finnish. I don't even know if such a beast exists :-) (of course I do know Finnish too and also German passably, but what's needed is 4 years of studies and a diploma in each to get the tenure)

So, if I lose this job, it'll surely be at minimum at least another 10 years, if ever, before I could find a similar position, and very unlikely it'd be where we live now. So I must do whatever it takes to keep the tenure; it was pretty much created for me having worked in the same place 10 years on and off and being really well liked by my bosses and the rest of the staff. It's a once in a lifetime job for me, because I was so dumb in my time to not take on any other languages, but instead some useless stuff like psychology and computer sciences. So that's something I need to be ultra secure about.

[Perfect Stranger]

Actually, St. Louis is one of the most dangerous cities in the country according to crime statistics. Check out the Golden Triangle in North Carolina. Jammed packed with high tech, chemical, medical research companies. And some of the best Universities in the country. Some of the friendliest people, most beautiful surroundings, close to mountains and ocean, and great food!

[gatorbrit]

I probably should mention the Triangle area of North Carolina. Home to Duke U, UNC, and NC State and numerous biotech industries. Apparently we have the highest percentage of PhDs per capita for a major metro area in the US. Its nice here as well. Schools are good and crime isn't too bad. Gets a bit warm in the summer, but the winters are fairly mild.

[ZMAN]

+1 on the Triad area. I lived in Greensboro off and on for about 6 months, and If I didn't have ties to Canada I WOULD be living there. Just about a perfect climate and decent folks.

[Tig]

That part of North Carolina is a great choice. You can take weekend trips to all kinds of beautiful parks and attractions. Unlike my part of the world, they have 4 real seasons.

[jpfeifer]

Hi Dee,

I don't know if you have considered the Southwestern US (Arizona), but there are some great advantages to living here if you can deal with the heat :-)
- the cost of living is very low compared to most areas of the country
- crime is very low here in Arizona, compared to almost every other place I've lived, and very family friendly
- lots of outdoors activities, and mild winters (great hiking, camping, golfing, off-road recreation)
- the only downside is the hot/dry summers, but not so bad if you have a pool where you live, as so many people do here.

My daughter is attending the University of Arizona in Tucson which has some one of the best biomedical programs in the country.
We don't have an abundance of top-notch universities here as compared to the East Coast, though.

--Jim

[Duffy]

One consideration that might save you a lot of time and money would be to consider doing what many people from, say, Scandanavia, have done: they have settled in areas of America that closely replicate their native environments, or at least in some ways are similar.

I lived in Minnesota and many of the families came from Scandanavia and places like Poland. Supposedly this had something to do with their preference for the colder climate and the rich farming soil. The area was sparsely populated but still very green, unlike the mountain West and desert Southwest. Minnesota is called the land of ten thousand lakes and lives up to its name with lakes, rivers, and streams full of Walleye and Northern Pike, plus bass and an abundance of other great fish. There are also innumerable Whitetail Deer and beautiful forests full of Northern hardwoods and evergreens. The standard of living is very high and the cost of living is very moderate compared to either coast or the other big cities. This is a good place to raise kids. The University of Minnesota has a great medical center and the Mayo Clinic is in Rochester, Minnesota.

As you know, New York is very expensive and has its other environmental and social problems. The West Coast is very expensive in most parts. Denver is a great sprawling metropolis with a great medical center and the University of Colorado Medical School. Colorado is a very decent place to live, even in Denver and especially in the mountains if you can find employment. Eastern Colorado is part of the Great Plains and also a great place but employment opportunities may be a concern. Western Colorado is spectacular but again employment may be a concern.

The Lake Superior part of Minnesota you would probably like and the Great Lakes region is quite nice but many areas are overpopulated.

Central Pennsylvania, here, is a very nice area to raise kids and employment in the medical fields is very achievable. They are constantly recruiting doctors and medical professionals into the area with some very excellent incentives. It is mainly very rural, such as where we live, and there is a need for excellence among medical professionals. Being rural and even remote from any significantly big cities, many professionals prefer living in areas that offer a lot more social opportunities like entertainment, educational institutions of higher education offering advanced degrees, and so forth. There are some medical research centers here though, some of them claiming excellence. If you want to know more about specific opportunities you can let me know and I can send you some addresses where they are actively recruiting.

The National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland is an awesome medical research mega center, but it is located in one of the most expensive areas I can imagine living in. I have spent a lot of time there and around there and it is very expensive for sure, and the traffic is incredibly intense with a lot of bad drivers and many accidents. There is also a great deal of crime in the area even though there are lots and lots of cops of every type. The average person in the area, however, is relatively well educated when compared to many other areas. There are a lot of smart criminals there, if that makes sense. NYC has a lot of very smart criminals as well. I guess I can't leave out Philadelphia in this respect either. These places are somewhat of an anomaly in this respect I would suppose.

I would think that living in the South would be quite a stress on your family, the environmental factors being so dramatically different from what you are used to. I just returned from South Florida and South Carolina, places that I like a lot. I think I could live in South Carolina without much complaint. The Eastern part of SC is beautiful coastal jungle and the Western part is beautifully mountainous. The Central part is actually quite nice. There are medical centers as well, especially in Charleston. Savanah is just across the state line and is super beautiful.

It would probably be wise to expect any area in America to be expensive to live in. A significant family income would be necessary to maintain a high quality of living, most especially in some areas and probably surprisingly so in other areas. Some areas, like here, are very reasonable, safe, and very livable on a moderate family income. You have to search for places like this.

I hope some of these perspectives give you some insight that you may not already have gleaned.

Your plan to secure your career job in Finland is an uppermost concern, I'm sure, and definitely a super wise decision. Time waits for no one and ten years to possibly regain your status is a long time, especially at this stage of your life when your family has requirements that must be met.

From my viewpoint, a life without adventure is a wasted life. Everything could be all secure and comfortable and life could pass you by and you could find yourself someday standing there looking in the mirror, old and grey, suddenly realizing that life has passed you by, slipped thru your hands like sand thru an hour glass, unfulfilled and stranded. But this is just my vision of what could have been; maybe a dream or a shade, if I had not embarked on some adventures from which I always returned to a changed world.

[street music]

Perfect Stranger you hit it right , the area around Charlotte, or Winston Salem, NC would be choice if I left Kentucky, that being said, KY charges high tax on vehicles every year, not just when you purchase it and our gasoline taxes are crazy.

[deeaa]

Thanks everyone for the great tips! I'll go through them all with a lot of thought for sure, when we get to more exact planning shortly!

You have to remember that I'm used to very high cost of living, I think Finland is one of the most expensive countries to live in. Pretty much everything costs double it costs in the U.S. and housing ain't cheap. I'd think a mediocre house/apartment price would be usually over $3000 per each yd2 of living-floor space...plus income tax can get to be around 50% (like I pay 60% tax for extra work income) and everything you buy and sell has basically 22% VAT applied...gas prices have 70% tax on top of it, and cars are taxed at over 100% over factory price...so even if it might be expensive in the U.S. in total it will likely seem like dirt cheap for us.

That's the price we pay for free education and such...

[Eric]

Well, I suppose that opens up your options a bit. I can't imagine it's so open-ended for your wife that you could just pick a place and tell her to move there, right? Doesn't she want to do a post-doc under a specific PI? And doesn't she have a specialized field of expertise already that would limit her to a handful of people? I mean, there are neuroscience and biochem people anywhere, but they're usually into one specific area of study in my experience, and I would think that her research thus far would probably make the choices converge fairly quickly.

What's her thing, anyway? MPO or dopamine or something? Seems like those were the sexy topics back when I worked with more of those people.

[deeaa]

Yeah, certainly it can't be just anywhere, but I understand very very many universities might work. We'l have to see about it in more detail later. Currently she's studying Altzheimer, some drugs and their effects I understand.

[wingsdad]

Nobody's mentioned New England yet, Dee, so I'll suggest giving it a look, or more precisley, the greater Boston area. It's been a long time since I lived and worked there, but the proliferation of universities, med schools and hospitals -- many prestigious -- within about a 50 to 100-mile radius of Beantown, could offer a wide array of study and work possibilities.

The climate, topography and scenery might be more like home. There's 4 distinct seasons, for sure. Winter will put frost on your cajones from October to April, and if you're by the coast, you can bask in cloudy, rainy days 60% of the time. You could be within a couple of hours drive from great skiing in the mountains of Vermont or New Hampshire, the Atlantic Ocean and beaches up & down the coast and up into Maine offer you nice and brisk 68-degreee F water temps to refresh you from the humidity and air temps in the low 90's in August.

Cost of living? When I lived in the Boston and Worcester, Mass areas in the late 70's, it was known as 'Taxachussetts'...so if taxes don't scare you, you'll be right at home.

And then there's the cultural scene. The ethnic diversity and so many colleges fuel a thirst and support for creativity and the Fine Arts and a vibrant music scene in triangle from Boston to Hartford and New Haven, Connecticut, and after all, you'd still be close enough (3-hour drive from Boston, 90 minutes from New Haven) to explore New York City's scene without having to live there.

[deeaa]

Yeah, Boston is likely at the top of the list just now for us actually. Got a buddy there, and several people from our Uni have been there, currently too I understand.

[deeaa]

Damn, I'm surfing just for fun for car prices in the U.S....you can get a 2008 Grand Cherokee Jeep loaded with options and low mileage for 20K easily it seems.
Guess how much those cost here? They START at roughly 50K for an '08 model and a loaded one can fetch almost 60K!

2010 1500 Ram pickup also 20K plus change...same car here, easily 60K...and I could only find a 2009 for that price...

Sheesh...yeah I could live with a Cherokee for a few years, especially a model with the Merc designed engine (CRD I think).

BTW does anyone know of a nice used car search engine for some U.S. area? I'm looking at automotive.com but there must be some service that lets me select exactly what I'm looking for like engine size etc. and search only for exact matches&have prices. For instance, I'd like to pick a very light colored interior and I would absolutely prefer manual gears if possible (no idea if for instance Cherokees are even made with manuals but an automatic is a big minus for me, and also would prefer a diesel engine rather than gasoline. Are there even diesel versions readily available in the U.S?

Gotta be a proper search agent thingy there somewhere?

Oh man, a '08 E series Mercedes STW with 4-wheel drive, only 33K! That's easily a 100K vehicle here. Here 33K buys you maybe like a 2002 model without 4x4 and a smaller engine at best...

Seems to me used cars are overall roughly 1/3rd the price from our prices...that's unbelievable....and I've only looked at some random zip code east coast area....

[Eric]

I generally use Edmunds.com for most anything car-related, and I think they use Autotrader.com -- you could give that a spin.

Regarding manual and diesel, I know you can find manual transmission cars, but yeah there are probably some models that don't even offer a manual. For diesel, the availability at gas stations is reasonable, but I'm not sure you'll find many diesel cars. Maybe a handfull? I'm actually kind of curious about your results with that. Other than the random old Mercedes and some pickups, it's just not the type of thing you ever see on the road.

Then again, I know precious little about the recent developments in automobiles. I just buy a shitty old used car about once every 5 years and then stop paying attention.

[deeaa]

The reasons I'd like a diesel is 1. diesel is cheaper than gas here, despite there is a special diesel tax....2. diesel engines last wayyyy longer than gasoline ones as a rule 3. resale value of diesel is better here 4. especially in larger engines the consumption is hugely less (like a 5.8 V8 consumes at least twice as much fuel as a diesel 6.2 for instance, and diesel is cheaper...of course them diesels have less power, but who cares at that kind of price differences)

But, it it's not diesel, it's NOT gonna be any V8 or hopefully even V6....the gas expenses would kill me for sure. I know, I used to have a V8 Chevy...insane car here with these gas prices...I now drive a 1.8 litre engine and that drinks waaayy too much to my liking, so the next car will likely be a 1.6 or something. With these modern dual turbos they still pump out 200 hp...

[Eric]

Oh actually, when I said "results" I meant that I'd be curious whether you could find many diesel cars in the US. I'd like to know what the availability is if you happen to find out.

[Duffy]

Sounds like you are definitely coming here. I would suggest considering the Mid-West or Western States as opposed to the East Coast megalopolis that stretches from Boston to D.C. almost contiguously. The megalopolis is extremely overpopulated and can be very stressful, as I'm sure you have experienced in NY.

As far as cars go, I have had both a diesel VW Jetta automatic 2002 and a Dodge three quarter ton extended cab diesel pickup 1999 with the six cylinder Cummins engine; both bought brand new. I'm done with diesels. I now have a Dodge three quarter ton four door gas pickup 2005 with the hemi V8 gas hog extremely fun engine and it tows my big thirty foot camping trailer WAY better than the diesel did and gets almost exactly the same mileage.

Diesel fuel costs about twenty cents more a gallon more around here. The best mileage I ever got with my high geared rear differential diesel pickup, designed for better mileage, was 17 miles per gallon: I get 15 miles per gallon, average with my hemi V8. The diesel had a five speed manual transmission and my hemi has the Mercedes five speed automatic that is a superior transmission - the best automatic I have ever had.

The VW Jetta got 50 miles per gallon on trips and in the high fourties around town, plus it handled extremely well and the ride was precise and excellent; however, the car was junk: the windows fell down inside the doors, the upscale stereo had to be replaced twice and still didn't work correctly after only a short time, and the air conditioning system failed immediately the first summer and I had it in over six times and still didn't get it fixed until I filed a "lemon law" claim, after which it was fixed the next day with no explanation as to what was required to fix it; plus I received a 1800 dollar lemon law settlement. Shortly after getting the settlement the check engine light started coming on. No problems were found and shortly thereafter the automatic transmission totally destructed and froze up never to move again. I thought I was in BIG trouble because I thought I was out of the warranty. I found out that it had a 50K drivetrain warranty and it had 45K actual miles on the odometer. I immediately got it fixed, which required a completely new factory transmission. Immediately upon getting the car back the check engine light started coming on again. I immediately decided to trade it in for a 2004 Honda Accord upscale four cylinder, brand new that I didn't even want to test drive. I knew I was getting a great car because I had three other Honda's before it. The salesman insisted, saying that he never sold a new car to anyone without them test driving it - so I drove it and it was super nice, as I knew it would be. Getting rid of that Jetta was a MAJOR relief. Mine was admittedly a lemon and I have seen people that have seemingly nice ones. The best handling Honda Accord I had was a manual transmission, as was my hatchback Honda Civic that got 47 mpg on trips and about 40 around town.

As far as I know you can buy VW diesel cars as well as Mercedes. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have excellent heavy duty thre quarter and one ton pickups, but not half tons, or small pickups. None of the people I know that have diesel pickups get good mileage - only a couple miles more per gallon than my hemi.

There are quite a few vehicles under 2 liters that are available and some of them are excellent quality vehicles. We have a Mercury
Sable that has the big three liter V6 and it got 30 miles per gallon on my trip over the last two weeks to South Florida and back, fully overloaded with camping gear, two bikes, and everything else including strat and small amp. We keep this car in great shape and have put a lot of money into its maintenance. We need a car that is up to long trips because we go to places like the Carolinas, Nashville, and Chicago, regularly. This is a fairly big car by today's standards and it has more useable room than many SUV's. A lot of the mini vans get thirty mpg and have a lot of room in them.

For 10K or so you would be able to purchase a really decent used vehicle of your choice. If you spend 20K you can get a relatively low mileage BMW 7 series with a six year 100 thousand mile warranty, if bought from a BMW dealer. I should have bought one of those I was looking at instead of the new Jetta. A VW is not a BMW, needless to say. You can get a 5 series BMW also for the same price in great shape with a manual transmission. One of Charity's daughters in law has a nice Compressor Mercedes, about 2006 that is an awesome car that she bought used for less than 20K with low mileage.

I'm sure you will be able to find a great vehicle in your price range.

Just like with most things important, you are wise to take your time and think out where you want to live. Some places have an extremely high quality of living - such as cities out in the Western States, such as Idaho, Wyoming, and so forth. Even Denver is quite nice, as well as Colorado Springs or Fort Collins. These places are not bad places to live at all and quite different from Back East. Some of the less populated states like Idaho or Wyoming may not have the magnitude of employment opportunities, but often they are trying to attract professionals, especially medical professionals, and the quality of life is outstanding and the environment is totally beautiful; and surprisingly the climate is not nearly as bitter cold as you might think, because of the micro environmental factors that have a warming effect. It might be fifteen below F one day and fifty above the next day. If you live high in the mountains it might be bitter cold most of the Winter, without question, but a lower altitudes you often get the "banana belt" effect. Another thing about these more remote and rural states is that people and employers seem to appreciate you more than in the megalopolis and metropolitan areas. It is a different lifestyle and attitude. These less populated states also have a keen desire to have excellence in their medical institutions.

I went to the Univ. of Colorado in Boulder and was a student teacher in Lander, Wyoming, a very remote and rural place. I travelled extensively in the Western States and can say that in my opinion they are supremely beautiful places and that there are some unbelievable opportunities for people who are willing to live there. Denver isn't quite the same and doesn't have the same atmosphere because it is a very large city, with all the associated problems, but is a far nicer place to live than the big cities Back East, in my experience. It is a Cow Town that got big, REAL big and sprawling.

I moved out of the megalopolis, where I lived in Connecticut, to rural North Central Pennsylvania to get away from the BIG CITY atmosphere and attitude. Around here it is like living twenty years in the past, which I like, and it was a great place to raise my son. Traffic jams are non-existent. Employment opportunities for medical professionals are very excellent. Having been raised in rural and lightly populated areas, I really enjoy the relaxed atmosphere in this rural area. During rush hour today I drove all around doing things and didn't get in any traffic jams whatsoever. I can dig this type of thing. If I want to go to NYC or Philly they are only a couple hours away, but the difference between here and those places is like crossing into the twilight zone.

Out in the Western States, short of the West Coast, you are not going to find any places to go to that are anything like NYC. But then again, there is only one NYC and I have never been anywhere that has the vibe of there.

If you are going to be moving here, it's a big place and you will have a lot of places to think about; lots of different climate zones and culture zones. The East is older and dug in, both physically and culturally; the West is younger and more wide open. I didn't mention the desert Southwestern States, but the desert can be very beautiful and seem almost like you are living on another planet. The Southwest is also very beautiful and there are many opportunites there as well, especially in the medical professions - partly because of the skew in the population demographic brought about by the influx of many older retired people relocating to the warm and healthy climate; and often lower cost of living compared to the places Up North that they tend to originate from.

You are definitely going to have your hands more than full picking a destination to live and work in. There are so many different and beautiful places. But there are also those places into which you may not wish to fall. You are very wise to check things out real good before you make your move.

My perspective is only one view on things, but I hope it is useful to you in thinking the whole thing over. A lot of people here have been around quite a bit and can tell you a lot about the experiences they have had all over the place. There's more stories than there are people on the Fret, that's for sure.

I like that autosave function by the way.

[deeaa]

As far as cars go, I have had both a diesel VW Jetta automatic 2002 and a Dodge three quarter ton extended cab diesel pickup 1999 with the six cylinder Cummins engine; both bought brand new. I'm done with diesels. I now have a Dodge three quarter ton four door gas pickup 2005 with the hemi V8 gas hog extremely fun engine and it tows my big thirty foot camping trailer WAY better than the diesel did and gets almost exactly the same mileage.

Wow, that's unbelievable! I guess it really depends on the engine type too. My 350 Chevy got around 15 miles per gallon, but in the winter in the city, easily only 7-8 miles, but my friend's same van with the 6.2 diesel got about 26 and it didn't much change in city or winter. The diesel had 1/3rd of the horsepower, but it still had more torque and pulled a trailer easier. But, of course a V8 Hemi would do that effortlessly :-)

We had a 1997 turbodiesel Jetta as well, it was flawless until 200.000km which is when it suddenly fell apart in every direction...the engines are good though for half a million.


Diesel fuel costs about twenty cents more a gallon more around here.

It's about vice versa here...hence the interest in diesels. Actually, if it's a small engine, like the Jetta etc. I'd prefer gasoline...but on more thirsty ones the gas prices get pretty horrible....around 60 bucks per every 100 miles, which would translate for me to around $8000 per year just for gasoline...I just can't afford that no way....I can literally save enough for a two-week trip accross the world just driving a diesel with low consumption.
That's why, even if I'd love a Cherokee, I'm mostly considering something like a Passat or Mercedes E in diesel...and small engine.


No problems were found and shortly thereafter the automatic transmission totally destructed and froze up never to move again. I thought I was in BIG trouble because I thought I was out of the warranty. I found out that it had a 50K drivetrain warranty and it had 45K actual miles on the odometer. I immediately got it fixed, which required a completely new factory transmission. Immediately upon getting the car back the check engine light started coming on again.

That's why I don't want an automatic, especially in an european car. In the U.S. cars have been automatic forever, but not here. I trust an american transmission fine, they've made them for aeons by now, but not european ones. You can't sell an older eurocar with an automatic...people automatically (heh) assume the transmission needs a costly do-over very soon. Especially VW has had a bad rep for their automatics, the DSG automatic is widely considered as a completely lemon design. The combo of a TSI engine and DSG transmission seems to be the topic of every other car discussion here...they're utter crap. The only european maker I would accept as automatic would me Mercedes.

These days, you have to research which engine model exactly is good and what not...VW has some real lemon engines these days, but also a few well proven ones. Gotta know what combo to get.

Even with american transmissions...there the trouble is you can't find anyone who could even service one here, because they aren't common! To find the first service garage that understands something about Chevy transmissions for instance I'd have to drive well over 100 miles to get to. I once had this strange grinding sound and the local Chevy service would not do anything to it, they claimed it was the transmission and those can't be repaired, so they wanted to replace the entire transmission at a cost of almost 10.000 in dollars...crazy...turned out to be just a squeaky U-joint I changed myself.


For 10K or so you would be able to purchase a really decent used vehicle of your choice. If you spend 20K you can get a relatively low mileage BMW 7 series with a six year 100 thousand mile warranty, if bought from a BMW dealer. I should have bought one of those I was looking at instead of the new Jetta. A VW is not a BMW, needless to say. You can get a 5 series BMW also for the same price in great shape with a manual transmission. One of Charity's daughters in law has a nice Compressor Mercedes, about 2006 that is an awesome car that she bought used for less than 20K with low mileage.

Really? BMW's really interest me, most of my friends have 'em and they really seem to be the most fault-proof cars there are these days. I though thet'd be relatively expensive in the U.S. A friend of mine had a nice 4x4 3-series with a 3 litre turbo, and he traded it for a brand new Merc C series turbodiesel 4x4 top model, but only kept it for 6 months before he got another BMW, this time a 336? or something 4x4 coupe with insane HP. He said, once you've driven a BMW all other cars seem so much inferior to handle he won't ever change again. Plus he never had a single issue during 80K miles on his beemer, but he had a few issues within 6 months on the Merc.

I would definitely like a 5-series STW or maybe a 3-series SUV, if I can get one at a good price.


You are definitely going to have your hands more than full picking a destination to live and work in. There are so many different and beautiful places. But there are also those places into which you may not wish to fall. You are very wise to check things out real good before you make your move.

My perspective is only one view on things, but I hope it is useful to you in thinking the whole thing over. A lot of people here have been around quite a bit and can tell you a lot about the experiences they have had all over the place. There's more stories than there are people on the Fret, that's for sure.

I like that autosave function by the way.

Yeah...it's great to have this kind of insight into things. We talk of it all often with my wife, and all this definitely will have a big impact on where we'll try to 'land'.
I'm still a bit leery of how I'l cope just being a nanny for a year, but, I dunno...why not. It'd definitely feel like a loooong holiday for me. But it could be very tough, unless we can secure enough funding that we can actually also do more than just stay home and watch TV, LOL...gotta have enough money to get the car and also travel round U.S. a bit etc. or it'll be a crazy boring year for me...I expect she'd be working round the clock a lot, so I'd just...I dunno, it'll be demanding :-)

[Duffy]

That bad rep on the Jetta turbodiesel with the automatic is interesting. My Jetta was made in MEXICO, not Germany. I was surprised by that - I should have known. Anyway, Motor Trend magazine had it as the car of the year or something like that before I bought it and all the reviews in the auto magazines were praising the car as if it was a BMW or something. I should have definitely known A VW IS NOT A BMW.

I had a chance to buy a low mileage used 745 BMW with a six year 100 thousand mile warranty from a dealer. He also had a five series for the same price with a lot less mileage and the same warranty. He wanted 19K and advised me that either of them would be a way better move than buying the new Jetta. I was straight up with the dude. Never went and looked and totally regretted it. If I would have went and looked I probably would have gone home with one. I had a real nice black '96 Nissan Pathfinder with gold trim and top of the line with a Bose sound system, sunroof, etc., that I was trading. It was the type of trade they like to see around here. It was a manual transmission V6 and a real nice SUV that my X wrecked up twice, wrecking on snowy, icy roads, and I had the body shop repair it under the insurance. Definitely should have went with the used BMW though.

I have a BMW motorcycle, a R1100R roadster. It's the best bike I've ever owned and I've had a bike for almost fifty years. The ride is like a magic carpet with a dual articulating rear swingarm and adjustable monoshock, as well as a great seat. The brakes are the best brakes I've ever felt on a bike. It is extremely expensive to get worked on and any part that has BMW stamped on it anywhere is about five times as much as an aftermarket part if you can find one. It only had a one year warranty. I keep it in excellent shape and I recently put an activated gas mat battery in it. These are cool batteries that they use in dragsters and other special applications where you might have to install the battery upside down even. Never freezes, isn't anything like a lead/acid battery or a gel cell. It is called an Oddyssey battery made by a company called Hawker.

Anyway, yeah, for 20K you will be able to find a great used BMW, probably at a dealer with a good warranty. I believe they even change the oil for you and you only have to pay for the oil and filter. I, however, usually change my own oil.

I'm retired now and my new woman Charity never pressures me. I stay home a lot and watch the dogs and so forth. There is a great music store about two blocks away and sometimes great gear shows up there, like the PRS SE Singlecut Tremolo tobacco burst flamed maple mint used guitar I got there a couple months ago for 250 dollars. I also bought a Fender MIM P bass for 200, near mint, in black and put an aged white pearl pickguard on it and it looks cool and plays really good. I bring in a substantial retirement income that I contribute to everything. The house is paid for and the taxes are not unreasonable, so we have a fair amount of expendable income. I can see where you will miss bringing in that second substantial income, if you have to go without being paid.

When I first retired my X started leaving "to do" lists for me before she went to work and was a real batch about it if I didn't get all the stuff done. I went out and got a part time job, got away from that "to do" list BS, and made some extra money to play with. Back then I said I could never be a "house husband", no way. Now I do it and don't even think of it as being a house husband, I just think of it as being retired. Of course I don't have the responsibility of taking care of kids though. That would be a priority that would require immediate attention, constantly. Different people react differently to staying home while the woman works; even the same person can react differently depending upon the woman they are living with, mysteriously, as in my case - I never thought about how my outlook on that changed until now by the way.

If you are able to come up with something and pull this off, you are sure to be in for some excitement and adventure. It might seem like it will be cheap around here, but it won't be cheap; unless you are rolling in the dough - everything is relative. Over there in Finland it sounds so expensive; someone must be making a lot of money.

[deeaa]

The old 1.9 turbodiesel frame had a rep of an engine that never dies. But it was seriously under-powered too, so no wonder...but some of the newer ones are lemons...and all their automatics basically.

I guess Finland has high taxes for two reasons: completely free education & student benefits all the way, even for adult education, and secondly, well, it's a relatively large country really, bigger than Britain for instance, but very sparsely populated...mere 5 million of us and half of those either retired or children. So there's only a couple million taxpayers have to pay for the upkeep of a wide road network and all the infrastructure.

[Duffy]

Well that's a lot better than a few fat cats getting fat at the expense of everybody else, like some places. That shows a lot of respect and responsibility when that productive segment of the society holds a whole relatively big country, with not many people, together.

Speaking of the Jetta; I doubt if the Jetta's over there are made in Mexico. Probably Germany. But it sounds like a lot of them are junk too. I was really surprised when that car turned out to be so many problems. My lawyer told me that there were many of them that were lemons and it was because they were made in Mexico and the quality control was not happening. I would say it was mismanagement by VW because it is obvious that Mexicans can make good guitars with decent quality control. Plus, supposedly, a lot of the California Fender employees were Mexicans, historically.

[deeaa]

It was interesting because that Jetta was in the family since new, and it had almost zero problems until it hit 140.000 miles, at which point it suddenly seemed to spend time at garage every other week. I changed pretty much every wearing part from shocks to clutch and brakes, but still it might just die on me due to fuel lines having been dried so the rubber just broke up, and we got rid of it. Had no A/C either, that was a good reason to dump it too.

I guess the car had a planned lasting time of about 140k-ml.

Many people refuse to acknowledge it, but all cars have their planned duration times...for instance, in Japan I understand it's really difficult and expensive to have older cars, because the law mandates some major repairs (I dunno, change airbags at 5 years???) or something like that, and it's quite cheap to buy new cars, so as a result there are hardly any cars there older than 5 years. Maybe Syo can confirm is this is right. Thus most cars sold in Japan are planned so that they last for 5 years and how much is expected in mileage during that time. It's amazing to Japanese car people to learn that the average car here is around 11 years old. Hell, I have never bought a car younger than 6 years myself :-)

[Tig]

In the 70's. Toyotas had a 50,000 mile warranty. Their engines would fail quite often at around 52,000-55,000 miles!

Some newer autos have longer life materials, like ceramic cylinder linings (thank you, NASA) and 100,000 mile spark plugs.

I recommend to anyone looking to buy a vehicle to check the manufacturer's reliability ratings at JD Powers
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/
and to stay away from any manufacturer that does not have a 3 score minimum (out of 5) for each category.
(sorry, but that means to avoid Jeep, Chrysler, Mitsubishi, Dodge, Mini, Land Rover, VW, etc.)

[deeaa]

The problem with these studies is that usually they give so contradictory results it's nigh impossible to trust them well. Although they do give good general idea. It's no surprise that on the whole, expensive cars fare better than cheap ones. We just had a similar study here and some of the top marks are the same (lexus, porsche) but then again for instance Mercedes has done pretty poorly here and BMW and Mini (which is built by BMW) on the other hand are right at the top here.

One thing that may have an impact on many such studies is how people report about the problems. Some owners of, say, Mercedes, claim there's been nothing wrong 'ever' with the car but then when you really dig into it, it may not be true at all, they have just more or less 'actively forgotten' about the issue, so strong is their belief that the car is so good, or they haven't paid attention what's been fixed at service time.

And yea...that has a HUGE impact; how often and how is the car serviced. For instance Huyndai and Kia have done very well in dependability studies, but when I talked with a guy who works as a repairman for them, he laughed and said of course they do, because they have them serviced twice as often as other cars, and they've been told to check everything and swap for new parts if anything even feels like it's going soon.

The result is they fare very well, but the owner also gets way bigger service bills than with some other brand.

Moreover, I've noticed that if someone has a really 'premium' level car, they also tend to take much better care of them, including servicing them at the least issue emerging. I and my neighbor are good examples; I buy a car and I don't give a rat's *** about some little things or whether I knock it against a wall a little or whatever...and in 5 years I have NEVER had the thing serviced. I just add or change oil, and if something goes so badly broken I'll repair it then, and only if it's a real must-do and the car won't run unless I do, or is hazardous.

But my neighbor always has his car serviced at _least_ twice a year, even if there's no real need, and even fixes things 'beforehand' like if he's told some part typically goes wrong after 200.000 he'll have it changed at 150.000 'just to be sure'. So no wonder he'd answer in any study that his car has had zero problems, whereas I would have to report quite a few little issues.

But if we compare money spent...he spends like $1000-2000 per year just for servicing the car and I pay...well a LOT less.

I don't really think that there are basically any huge differences between the brands when it comes to quality other than what is obvious by the used materials and what you can obviously see both in the actual car and the price tag. I usually look for things like rust protection in the given model year, that's pretty much the only thing that concerns me. I don't care if there are some minor problems or not, but I care if the car rusts. For instance BMW, Audi, Volvo, Citroen and Peugeot do not rust, most others do, and for instance Mercedes is really badly prone to rusting at least in models 2-5 years old, Ford and Mazda are terrible in rusting as well, etc. etc...

[poodlesrule]

A friend of a friend, excellent motorcycle mechanic (wrenched for a racing team once) took a job with an Audi dealer, and had tremendous stories!
I am told newer high-end cars have a boatload of micro-motors for this that , etc and Audi seem to have a high degree of complexity in the design of things. The Audi shop manuals are many and big. Often, a problem is only fixed with several shop visits. One of his stories was a very minor problem with some gadget, which required removing the whole dashboard which took some three-four hours.. and the repair bill reflected that. On the other hand a fellow for same bike group had an older Audi and was planning on driving it to the ground, towing race bikes and stuff like that with it.

[deeaa]

Yes, Audi is VAG's 1st or 'premium' brand (if you don't count the specials like Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti, which are also made by VAG...Porsche as well although that one has a special relationship to VAG). Every new idea and engine and whatnot is first implemented in Audis, and only a year or two later in VW's at best - the secondary brand. Of course that has the benefit for VW that often the designs are by that time more tried and tested, while Audis, despite more expensive etc. have had some serious issues of late.

The third brand in VAG group, Skoda, is another story...they get to use VAG engines and such only several years after they've been introduced in Audis. However they have their own designers and can build the cars outside the usual VAG restrictions, and thus the Skodas have a rep of being the most reliable ones, despite cheapest, and have gained a very very good reputation of late plus a nice value retention too.

VAG also includes another side brand, Seat, which is yet another story...a few years back they re-released the Audi A4 from 3 years before rebranded as Seat and with cosmetic changes (called Exeo), and at the same time Audi released its new A4. The fun thing is that a few magazines tested the cars side by side with a tight race and the older design actually won the comparison in one :-)

It's nigh impossible to try and keep up with car quality and where and how each is made these days. At least if you buy a car here, it's not what you might expect.
Certain Nissan is made in England. Some BMW's are made in USA. Some Porsche are made in Finland. Many VW's are made in Czech. Toyotas in Romania. Some Mercedes in Spain. Volvos in Holland.

Hard to keep up with the stuff...with many brands only a handful of models are any more made in the original country.