DIY Cab ...Need help with speaker

[Monkus]

I'm about to score a nearly new Transatlantic TA-15. I've been gassing for this amp for a long time and it would be my first foray into tube amp heads. I've decided to build a 1x12 cab and import a speaker for it.
The reason I'm building, is that customs will charge me out the wazoo for a 45lb speakerbox. I'm using the plans for a EV TL806 cab design found here:

http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Builders%20Plans/TL806%20Builders%20Plans.pdf

The thing is, I was going to get a Celestion Blue, but they are rated at 15W and the TA-15 highest output is 25W, so I don't know if it will work well. The cab is 'designed?' for a Electro-Voice EVM12L 12 inch loudspeaker. Amazon specs here:

http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Voice-EVM12L-Classic-Speaker/dp/B000Z33HYI

Being the tube noob that I am, seems like overkill for a 25W amp. I do want the best sound I can get out of it so I'm looking for guidance.

1. Which speaker to get?
2. Scrap the Thiele idea and find another plan?
3. Link to a site that explains amp watt vs speaker watt?
4. Suggestions?

Thanks

[Tig]

Yikes, the speaker in the Amazon link is rated at 200 watts!? I'd look at 50 watt choices.

One of the first that comes to mind is the Eminence Patriot Cannabis Rex (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/eminence-patriot-cannabis-rex-12-50w-guitar-speaker-with-hemp-cone).

For $60 less than the one in Amazon, you might even consider the new Eminence FDM tone adjustable speakers, like the Reighnmaker (Brit) (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/eminence-reignmaker-fdm-tone-adjustable-12-guitar-speaker--8-ohm/h63582000000000) or Maverick (US) (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/eminence-maverick-fdm-tone-adjustable-12-guitar-speaker--8-ohm/h63581000000000). The adjustibility might be perfect for the highly adjustable TA-15.

http://static.musiciansfriend.com/derivates/6/001/452/633/DV019_Jpg_Regular_H63582_back.jpghttp://static.musiciansfriend.com/derivates/6/001/452/635/DV019_Jpg_Regular_H63581_back.jpg

Check out the many online sound files from the manufacturers, too.

[tunghaichuan]

I'm about to score a nearly new Transatlantic TA-15. I've been gassing for this amp for a long time and it would be my first foray into tube amp heads. I've decided to build a 1x12 cab and import a speaker for it.
The reason I'm building, is that customs will charge me out the wazoo for a 45lb speakerbox. I'm using the plans for a EV TL806 cab design found here:

http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Builders%20Plans/TL806%20Builders%20Plans.pdf

The thing is, I was going to get a Celestion Blue, but they are rated at 15W and the TA-15 highest output is 25W, so I don't know if it will work well. The cab is 'designed?' for a Electro-Voice EVM12L 12 inch loudspeaker. Amazon specs here:

http://www.amazon.com/Electro-Voice-EVM12L-Classic-Speaker/dp/B000Z33HYI






Being the tube noob that I am, seems like overkill for a 25W amp. I do want the best sound I can get out of it so I'm looking for guidance.

1. Which speaker to get?
2. Scrap the Thiele idea and find another plan?
3. Link to a site that explains amp watt vs speaker watt?
4. Suggestions?

Thanks

First of all a 200 watt rated speaker is overkill for that amp. The rule of thumb I go by is 2x the output of the amp. So, like Tig said, 50 watts is the lowest I'd use with that amp.

Having said that the EV is a very neutral speaker, it does not color the sound of the amp at all. This might be a good choice for the Transatlantic, which has lots of tonal variation. The EV is also very efficient, 100dB/watt/meter, meaning put one watt of power into the EV and measure the SPL at one meter away and it will be 100dB. But unlike lower powered speakers, with the EV you won't get any speaker breakup, none.

The Thiele cab was designed specifically for that speaker. It was meant to sound huge, but be compact.

I have a pair of commercially built Thiele cabs loaded with Celestions. Celestion warns not to put their speakers in ported cabs, but I haven't had any problems.

I have had EV 12L speakers in the past, but I never really liked their neutral tone. I have not tried EV 12Ls in my Thiele cabs.

It is hard to make speaker recommendations, but you might want to contact Boogie and see what speaker/cab combination they would recommend for that amp. On their website it looks like Boogie uses a 90-watt Celestion with their Thiele cab.

HTH.

[Monkus]

Thanks for the quick replies guys, very informative. Seems like I'll have to be like all the others, and swap out speakers over time to find out what I like. Its the journey, not the destination.

@Tig: That Eminence sounds killer, most definitely an option, and the price is nice too!

I'm leaning toward getting a comparable speaker to what Boogie uses in their Thiele cabs and start from there, since their Thieles are based on the EV TL-806 design anyway (Thanks Tung!). Mods, if this belongs in another category, please move it. Looking forward to any other suggestions...

[Eric]

First of all a 200 watt rated speaker is overkill for that amp. The rule of thumb I go by is 2x the output of the amp. So, like Tig said, 50 watts is the lowest I'd use with that amp.
Out of curiosity, why is everybody freaking out about using an overly-big speaker? I understand that you won't get any speaker distortion if it's oversized, but isn't that good in some cases? Provided you're already going for no speaker distortion, is there any reason why getting a way-too-big speaker is a bad thing? Cost? Something else?

[duhvoodooman]

One of the first that comes to mind is the Eminence Patriot Cannabis Rex (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/eminence-patriot-cannabis-rex-12-50w-guitar-speaker-with-hemp-cone).
I have a Cannabis Rex in my Fender Blues Jr. and I really like it. Efficient and articulate, but never harsh sounding on the treble end, even with this rather bright amp. The Eminence Swamp Thang is another good choice, if you're looking for a highly efficient speaker that is very neutral/clean in its tone. Supposed to have great bass, too, which is nice in a single speaker cab, since they often lack bottom end.

[tunghaichuan]

Out of curiosity, why is everybody freaking out about using an overly-big speaker? I understand that you won't get any speaker distortion if it's oversized, but isn't that good in some cases? Provided you're already going for no speaker distortion, is there any reason why getting a way-too-big speaker is a bad thing? Cost? Something else?

I use overated speakers in my set up. I use a pair of 1x12" cabs loaded with 70 watt Celestions with 5-15 watt amps. Personally I hate speaker distortion, and I believe it is bad for the speaker. I burned out a 15 watt speaker using a 12 watt Fender Deluxe clone amp I built.

The one reason not to use EV speakers is weight. They weigh 19 lbs. They are also relatively expensive compared to Eminence speakers.

I think some players like speaker distortion, which is why they shy away from speaker that can handle lots of power. Speaker distortion is the classic blues sound which you can't get from a vastly overrated speaker. But like I said, running an amp into a speaker that can't handle the power will burn it out, eventually.

The 2X guideline is mostly for safety. A 50 watt Marshall can put out in excess of 75watts when cranked up all the way.

Having said all that there are players who run 100 watt Marshalls into 100 watt rated 4x12" (four 25watt rated Greenbacks) cabs with no trouble.

[Eric]

I use overated speakers in my set up. I use a pair of 1x12" cabs loaded with 70 watt Celestions with 5-15 watt amps. Personally I hate speaker distortion, and I believe it is bad for the speaker. I burned out a 15 watt speaker using a 12 watt Fender Deluxe clone amp I built.

The one reason not to use EV speakers is weight. They weigh 19 lbs. They are also relatively expensive compared to Eminence speakers.

I think some players like speaker distortion, which is why they shy away from speaker that can handle lots of power. Speaker distortion is the classic blues sound which you can't get from a vastly overrated speaker. But like I said, running an amp into a speaker that can't handle the power will burn it out, eventually.

The 2X guideline is mostly for safety. A 50 watt Marshall can put out in excess of 75watts when cranked up all the way.

Having said all that there are players who run 100 watt Marshalls into 100 watt rated 4x12" (four 25watt rated Greenbacks) cabs with no trouble.
Quite helpful. Thanks for the info!

[Tig]

Yep, for the Thiele cab, stick to their formula.

[Monkus]

I got an Eminence Delta 12A speaker locally today. From my research, some people use it over the EV12L. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to other forums here but google "EV12L vs Eminence Delta 12A"

the build thread is here:

http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php/18735-Building-a-1x12-Thiele-Small-guitar-cabinet.

Some of the guys there are discussing the speaker as well, maybe the mods can merge the threads?